Haka in trouble again

All things Rugby
User avatar
naki
Posts: 14246
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by naki »

Da iawn diolch wrote:Interesting thought - the Crusaders' starting 15 appears to have more players of Caucasian origin (likely British/Irish) than from Maori origin.
The following starters have both European and Maori heritage;

Moody
Taylor
Romano
Bedwell-Curtis
Hall
Dagg
Bateman

Havili has Tongan/European heritage
Mo'unga has Tongan/Samoan heritage
Taufua is Samoan
Tamanivalu is Fijian

Franks, Whitelock, Goodhue and Todd are the token white boys.

All part of our inclusive, multicultural society. All have grown up with kapa haka and tribal dances of all types and will no doubt bang out a sweet dance for you all to enjoy on Saturday.
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 35339
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by guy smiley »

This yobbish disrespect and ignorance of our proud culture has been systematic behaviour for years...

Image
User avatar
True Blue
Posts: 12054
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by True Blue »

I'm with the Brits on this one. Sorry. The throat slitting thing just looks wrong, even if it means something else. The fact that the AB's changed the gesture to a more chest level one seems to suggest the NZRU agreed.

Yes, it's important to respect all cultures but respect is a two way street. That's clearly a threatening gesture in many cultures and it wouldn't have taken any effort to modify it slightly and still give the same meaning.
User avatar
Sandstorm
Posts: 28956
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Chickenrunning...

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Sandstorm »

guy smiley wrote:This yobbish disrespect and ignorance of our proud culture has been systematic behaviour for years...

Image
Are those Brit lads wearing ceremonial Kiwi aprons? Are you suggesting they should get in the kitchen and cook some eggs?
User avatar
naki
Posts: 14246
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by naki »

Looks like Ringo realised the folly of going in for a hongi with that conk far too late.

Image
User avatar
nardol
Posts: 20496
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by nardol »

Double standards from the keewees.

British and Irish culture is based on moaning - so when BOD was almost killed it was in our culture to moan about it. Keewees make no allowance for this while the Lions are expected to not transgress on any cultural faux pas.

It really demonstrates the insular nature of keewees. :nod:
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6577
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Dark »

The fact of the matter is the UK reporter dude has a point

Lions rugby maybe the only rugby some people in the UK may be watching. Viewers overseas shouldn't be expected to have to do in-depth NZ cultural research to understand the meaning of Haka by our shittest team in Super rugby, to know it isn't throat slitting straight after the London Bridge tragedy.

Personally think the Blues management dropped the ball
User avatar
Sandstorm
Posts: 28956
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Chickenrunning...

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Sandstorm »

Dark wrote:The fact of the matter is the UK reporter dude has a point

Lions rugby maybe the only rugby some people in the UK may be watching. Viewers overseas shouldn't be expected to have to do in-depth NZ cultural research to understand the meaning of Haka by our shittest team in Super rugby, to know it isn't throat slitting straight after the London Bridge tragedy.

Personally think the Blues management dropped the ball
Cheers Bro, although I don't see that going down very well with your fellow Kiwis. :uhoh:
User avatar
naki
Posts: 14246
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by naki »

nardol wrote:Double standards from the keewees.

British and Irish culture is based on moaning - so when BOD was almost killed it was in our culture to moan about it. Keewees make no allowance for this while the Lions are expected to not transgress on any cultural faux pas.

It really demonstrates the insular nature of keewees. :nod:
But we moaned just as much about your moaning. Cultural appropriation, perhaps.
User avatar
Kid A
Posts: 4655
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Cian Healy's attic

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Kid A »

Spot on by Mark Orders
It is the opposition's right to have a go, just as it is the home team's right to lay down the final challenge. So when they play overseas the All Blacks haka should precede the home team's anthem. But oh no, we're not coming out of the sheds if you do that. We're going to throw a hissy fit.
User avatar
True Blue
Posts: 12054
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by True Blue »

Sandstorm wrote:
Dark wrote:The fact of the matter is the UK reporter dude has a point

Lions rugby maybe the only rugby some people in the UK may be watching. Viewers overseas shouldn't be expected to have to do in-depth NZ cultural research to understand the meaning of Haka by our shittest team in Super rugby, to know it isn't throat slitting straight after the London Bridge tragedy.

Personally think the Blues management dropped the ball
Cheers Bro, although I don't see that going down very well with your fellow Kiwis. :uhoh:

We're not all one person you know. I already posted the same sentiments.
User avatar
Jays Myth
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Jays Myth »

Kid A wrote:Spot on by Mark Orders
It is the opposition's right to have a go, just as it is the home team's right to lay down the final challenge. So when they play overseas the All Blacks haka should precede the home team's anthem. But oh no, we're not coming out of the sheds if you do that. We're going to throw a hissy fit.
Yet strangely since that day no one has asked the ABs to do their haka before the anthem - as is their right I wonder why that is?
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 35339
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by guy smiley »

Kid A wrote:Spot on by Mark Orders
It is the opposition's right to have a go, just as it is the home team's right to lay down the final challenge. So when they play overseas the All Blacks haka should precede the home team's anthem. But oh no, we're not coming out of the sheds if you do that. We're going to throw a hissy fit.
Your anthem is your challenge?

Crikey. It's boot quaking time, boys.
User avatar
JM2K6
Posts: 37187
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by JM2K6 »

Jays Myth wrote:
Kid A wrote:Spot on by Mark Orders
It is the opposition's right to have a go, just as it is the home team's right to lay down the final challenge. So when they play overseas the All Blacks haka should precede the home team's anthem. But oh no, we're not coming out of the sheds if you do that. We're going to throw a hissy fit.
Yet strangely since that day no one has asked the ABs to do their haka before the anthem - as is their right I wonder why that is?
Because they don't want to have to deal with the massive public hissy fit and associated damage to the game's image?
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 35339
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by guy smiley »

JM2K6 wrote:
Jays Myth wrote:
Kid A wrote:Spot on by Mark Orders
It is the opposition's right to have a go, just as it is the home team's right to lay down the final challenge. So when they play overseas the All Blacks haka should precede the home team's anthem. But oh no, we're not coming out of the sheds if you do that. We're going to throw a hissy fit.
Yet strangely since that day no one has asked the ABs to do their haka before the anthem - as is their right I wonder why that is?
Because they don't want to have to deal with the massive public hissy fit and associated damage to the game's image?

errr :roll:
rugga.
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by rugga. »

Just a warning to the sensitive lot. The Crusaders will have several horseman riding around the ground swinging large swords in the lead up to the arrival of the teams.

Because of recent events this me be seen as threatening and disrespectful.

Just be aware, parental guidence perhaps.
User avatar
True Blue
Posts: 12054
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by True Blue »

I think the Welsh haka thing was more due to the fact that they weren't informed and it was switched at the last second.
Croft
Posts: 5141
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: NZ, but England fan.

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Croft »

guy smiley wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:And a good opportunity for Keewees to show some empathy and understanding and not immediately line up to sneer at the casual observers...

I think you'll find we're sneering at the trolls.

Casual observers are welcomed into the country.

I'll repeat something I said on this yesterday... England was united in it's stoic refusal to be cowed by the recent attack. Yet here we are, fending off mass hysteria over a symbol. Perhaps there's an element of confected outrage at play... and I shudder to be the one suggesting this could even be a remote possibility here, in this place, these hallowed halls but say it I must.
I never even made any connection and I bet you 99% of people in England couldn't give a toss. They know the haka is what it is and that you'd have to be some kind of professional cryer to even try and be upset by emotionally linking what happened in London and gestures in the haka.

Mind you JKM might be trolling. :shock:
User avatar
naki
Posts: 14246
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by naki »

JM2K6 wrote:
Jays Myth wrote:
Kid A wrote:Spot on by Mark Orders
It is the opposition's right to have a go, just as it is the home team's right to lay down the final challenge. So when they play overseas the All Blacks haka should precede the home team's anthem. But oh no, we're not coming out of the sheds if you do that. We're going to throw a hissy fit.
Yet strangely since that day no one has asked the ABs to do their haka before the anthem - as is their right I wonder why that is?
Because they don't want to have to deal with the massive public hissy fit and associated damage to the game's image?
We did the haka before the anthem the previous year in Wales. It was the Welshing the following year that led to the All Blacks dignified decision to quietly perform the haka for themselves. Perhaps they should have physically removed the Sky cameramen from the changing sheds.
User avatar
Sandstorm
Posts: 28956
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Chickenrunning...

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Sandstorm »

True Blue wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Dark wrote:The fact of the matter is the UK reporter dude has a point

Lions rugby maybe the only rugby some people in the UK may be watching. Viewers overseas shouldn't be expected to have to do in-depth NZ cultural research to understand the meaning of Haka by our shittest team in Super rugby, to know it isn't throat slitting straight after the London Bridge tragedy.

Personally think the Blues management dropped the ball
Cheers Bro, although I don't see that going down very well with your fellow Kiwis. :uhoh:

We're not all one person you know. I already posted the same sentiments.
You're one of the good ones, TB. :thumbup:
User avatar
True Blue
Posts: 12054
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by True Blue »

rugga. wrote:Just a warning to the sensitive lot. The Crusaders will have several horseman riding around the ground swinging large swords in the lead up to the arrival of the teams.

Because of recent events this me be seen as threatening and disrespectful.

Just be aware, parental guidence perhaps.

Well it is the Crusaders, they named themselves after the original Jihadi. Culturally sensitive our cantab brethren. :smug:
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 35339
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by guy smiley »

Croft wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:And a good opportunity for Keewees to show some empathy and understanding and not immediately line up to sneer at the casual observers...

I think you'll find we're sneering at the trolls.

Casual observers are welcomed into the country.

I'll repeat something I said on this yesterday... England was united in it's stoic refusal to be cowed by the recent attack. Yet here we are, fending off mass hysteria over a symbol. Perhaps there's an element of confected outrage at play... and I shudder to be the one suggesting this could even be a remote possibility here, in this place, these hallowed halls but say it I must.
I never even made any connection and I bet you 99% of people in England couldn't give a toss. They know the haka is what it is and that you'd have to be some kind of professional cryer to even try and be upset by emotionally linking what happened in London and gestures in the haka.

Mind you JKM might be trolling. :shock:

I urge you to think again, good sir.
User avatar
JM2K6
Posts: 37187
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by JM2K6 »

rugga. wrote:Just a warning to the sensitive lot. The Crusaders will have several horseman riding around the ground swinging large swords in the lead up to the arrival of the teams.

Because of recent events this me be seen as threatening and disrespectful.

Just be aware, parental guidence perhaps.
Ah no, that's OK - given the religious iconography and strong anti-Muslim message that crusader knights display, all viewers will clearly view it as just a keewee nod to UKIP
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 35339
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by guy smiley »

JM2K6 wrote:
rugga. wrote:Just a warning to the sensitive lot. The Crusaders will have several horseman riding around the ground swinging large swords in the lead up to the arrival of the teams.

Because of recent events this me be seen as threatening and disrespectful.

Just be aware, parental guidence perhaps.
Ah no, that's OK - given the religious iconography and strong anti-Muslim message that crusader knights display, all viewers will clearly view it as just a keewee nod to UKIP
Image
User avatar
TrailApe
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:56 pm
Location: Near Milecastle 11 Hadrian's Wall

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by TrailApe »

England was united in it's stoic refusal to be cowed by the recent attack
Thing is, this was London, so not many Brits actually died (I assume you meant Britain when you said ‘England’) and whilst I don’t have figures of the nationalities of those who were wounded, it’s a fair assumption to say that there were more foreign nationals involved - apart from the emergency services – in the attack than Brits, not surprising at all – have you seen the prices? only tourists and Merchant Bankers can afford to drink in the City on a regular basis.

So fair enough, stiff upper lip for Brits, but not all nationalities roll like that (and really we Brits don’t either, it’s a myth) so don’t be surprised if other media pick up on this – assuming that they can give a toss about a niche sport being played on the other side of the world. Now if the Haka was done prior to an international Association Football match I bet there would be a right shit storm from certain European countries.

Just for the record.

Ignacio Echeverria – Spanish
Xavier Thomas – French
Sebastien Belanger – French
Sara Zelenak – Australian
Kirsty Boden – Australian
Chrissy Archibald – Canadian
Jamie McMullan – Brit
Alexandre Pigeard - French

These were real people, not just headlines.
User avatar
JM2K6
Posts: 37187
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by JM2K6 »

Er, Borough Market and the surrounding pubs are hugely popular with all of us who work nearby, regardless of nationality. It's not just City boys, not by a long shot.
User avatar
TrailApe
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:56 pm
Location: Near Milecastle 11 Hadrian's Wall

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by TrailApe »

Well it is the Crusaders, they named themselves after the original Jihadi. Culturally sensitive our cantab brethren
A point of order.

The Crusades were RE-conquering the Holy Land. The Christian/Muslim thing goes back to Reconquista where the Spanish booted the Moors and Saracens back out of Iberia. It started with the Battle of Covandongo (722) and ended in 1492. The Crusades were just an extension of the Europeans pushing back against militant Islam.


The crusaders were a bunch of greedy murdering thugs but they didn't start it, they just went a bit large.
Santa
Posts: 11275
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:56 pm

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Santa »

Change our culture to suite your sensibilities? Yessuh, Massa suh.
User avatar
dr dre2
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:48 pm

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by dr dre2 »

True Blue wrote:I think the Welsh haka thing was more due to the fact that they weren't informed and it was switched at the last second.
It shouldn't f**king matter it's a silly dance not some magic ritual that can't be f**ked with. If it's akin to an anthem then do it when your told. If it's something akin to a special ritual of significance then don't do it at a commercial event.
User avatar
Calculus
Posts: 3830
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Calculus »

guy smiley wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:"Hey uh some people are a little bit upset that after an atrocity where Brits' throats were cut in public by terrorists in one of the most well known places on the planet that you guys did a haka which had a throat slitting gesture"

"British and Irish people are rapists and murderers"

OK Then

Well, clearly they're not...

but it's not a throat slitting gesture either.

So.. meh.
To the casual observer it certainly looks like one.
Excellent opportunity then, for the casual observer to learn something of another culture..

a proud culture with a proud history. A magnificent history, really. Illustrious.
Apart from the slavery, cannibalism, infanticide, violence, etc.
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 35339
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by guy smiley »

Calculus wrote: Apart from the slavery, cannibalism, infanticide, violence, etc.

Your pot is black, you wheedling malcontent.
User avatar
naki
Posts: 14246
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by naki »

dr dre2 wrote:
True Blue wrote:I think the Welsh haka thing was more due to the fact that they weren't informed and it was switched at the last second.
It shouldn't f**k matter it's a silly dance not some magic ritual that can't be f**k with. If it's akin to an anthem then do it when your told. If it's something akin to a special ritual of significance then don't do it at a commercial event.
The only reason you lot perform an anthem before a rugby game is because of the haka.
La soule
Posts: 9828
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by La soule »

guy smiley wrote:
La soule wrote:Guy trying to defend the indefensible again....

"The people should read about the maori culture to understand that we do not mean to cut people throat" justification has been used time & time again.
Listen you Lefty terror supporting little freak, JM and I are talking. You may take a biscuit and play in the yard until we're ready for you to come inside.
Are you going to slit my throat if I disagree with you :(
Seems like an important cultural trait in your neck of the woods.
Santa
Posts: 11275
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:56 pm

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Santa »

guy smiley wrote:
Calculus wrote: Apart from the slavery, cannibalism, infanticide, violence, etc.

Your pot is black, you wheedling malcontent.
I really don't think we Maori had paedophilia before colonisation.
User avatar
Jays Myth
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by Jays Myth »

Would it be insensitive to celebrate guy fawkes day? Blowing stuff up and all that?
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 35339
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by guy smiley »

La soule wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
La soule wrote:Guy trying to defend the indefensible again....

"The people should read about the maori culture to understand that we do not mean to cut people throat" justification has been used time & time again.
Listen you Lefty terror supporting little freak, JM and I are talking. You may take a biscuit and play in the yard until we're ready for you to come inside.
Are you going to slit my throat if I disagree with you :(
Seems like an important cultural trait in your neck of the woods.

I laugh at you. Like a man I laugh, big and loud with the might of the mountains behind me and the great expanse of the sea before me. See me laugh. At you.
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 35339
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by guy smiley »

Jays Myth wrote:Would it be insensitive to celebrate guy fawkes day? Blowing stuff up and all that?
Oh f**k, don't give them ideas.
La soule
Posts: 9828
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by La soule »

guy smiley wrote:
La soule wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
La soule wrote:Guy trying to defend the indefensible again....

"The people should read about the maori culture to understand that we do not mean to cut people throat" justification has been used time & time again.
Listen you Lefty terror supporting little freak, JM and I are talking. You may take a biscuit and play in the yard until we're ready for you to come inside.
Are you going to slit my throat if I disagree with you :(
Seems like an important cultural trait in your neck of the woods.

I laugh at you. Like a man I laugh, big and loud with the might of the mountains behind me and the great expanse of the sea before me. See me laugh. At you.
But your montains are small, another national trait from what I understand.
User avatar
dr dre2
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:48 pm

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by dr dre2 »

naki wrote:
dr dre2 wrote:
True Blue wrote:I think the Welsh haka thing was more due to the fact that they weren't informed and it was switched at the last second.
It shouldn't f**k matter it's a silly dance not some magic ritual that can't be f**k with. If it's akin to an anthem then do it when your told. If it's something akin to a special ritual of significance then don't do it at a commercial event.
The only reason you lot perform an anthem before a rugby game is because of the haka.
Does that make it special and magical?
User avatar
TrailApe
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:56 pm
Location: Near Milecastle 11 Hadrian's Wall

Re: Haka in trouble again

Post by TrailApe »

Er, Borough Market and the surrounding pubs are hugely popular with all of us who work nearby, regardless of nationality. It's not just City boys, not by a long shot.

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

So why the disproportionate numbers of fatalities being non British? - there must be a reason.
Post Reply