OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

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Da iawn diolch
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Da iawn diolch »

Tim. wrote:
The Ginger Jedi wrote: My comment wasn't a criticism of the defensive effort but a counter to what SB said. Faletau plays like a six not an eight, I want my eight carrying more than he tackles.
I agree and have said so for years. But in the absence of BV he's good value for this team at 8. :thumbup:
I mean, that's absolute b*llocks. Faletau has looked the real deal at 8 every time he's played this tour. When the rest of your pack is getting absolutely humped and throwing away possession for fun, what on earth use is a 'carrying' 8? If the stats are anything to go by, he made almost as many tackles as both flankers put together. For a team that only had 30-something% of the possession, that sounds like poor performances from 6 and 7 meaning that the 8 was forced to go into 'auxiliary flanker' mode.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by henry »

Da iawn diolch wrote:
Tim. wrote:
The Ginger Jedi wrote: My comment wasn't a criticism of the defensive effort but a counter to what SB said. Faletau plays like a six not an eight, I want my eight carrying more than he tackles.
I agree and have said so for years. But in the absence of BV he's good value for this team at 8. :thumbup:
I mean, that's absolute b*llocks. Faletau has looked the real deal at 8 every time he's played this tour. When the rest of your pack is getting absolutely humped and throwing away possession for fun, what on earth use is a 'carrying' 8? If the stats are anything to go by, he made almost as many tackles as both flankers put together. For a team that only had 30-something% of the possession, that sounds like poor performances from 6 and 7 meaning that the 8 was forced to go into 'auxiliary flanker' mode.
A rabbit hole of utter madness awaits.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Bowtie »

Was AWJ concussed after that tackle on Read at around 16:48 game clock? Should have gone for an HIA methinks.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Tim. »

Da iawn diolch wrote:
Tim. wrote:
The Ginger Jedi wrote: My comment wasn't a criticism of the defensive effort but a counter to what SB said. Faletau plays like a six not an eight, I want my eight carrying more than he tackles.
I agree and have said so for years. But in the absence of BV he's good value for this team at 8. :thumbup:
I mean, that's absolute b*llocks. Faletau has looked the real deal at 8 every time he's played this tour. When the rest of your pack is getting absolutely humped and throwing away possession for fun, what on earth use is a 'carrying' 8? If the stats are anything to go by, he made almost as many tackles as both flankers put together. For a team that only had 30-something% of the possession, that sounds like poor performances from 6 and 7 meaning that the 8 was forced to go into 'auxiliary flanker' mode.
My logic was simple. Faletau can do pretty much everything on a rugby pitch a backrow forward is required to do. Even his lineout isn't bad. They were our best 2 backrowers by my reckoning. So Faletau at 6 (making 20 odd tackles) and carrying wider with BV in the carrying workhorse role from 8 was my go-to choice until BV broke. Not that BV hasn't racked up 20+ tackles in Test matches on the backfoot himself.

It wasn't a slight on either. As said, TF's 'good value' at 8 in the team as is. It's was more about the best use of resources. It's also academic now.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Marcus50 »

the game was decided up for by a dominant AB tight 5. Perhaps not what Gatland anticipated
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Da iawn diolch »

Tim. wrote:
Da iawn diolch wrote:
Tim. wrote:
The Ginger Jedi wrote: My comment wasn't a criticism of the defensive effort but a counter to what SB said. Faletau plays like a six not an eight, I want my eight carrying more than he tackles.
I agree and have said so for years. But in the absence of BV he's good value for this team at 8. :thumbup:
I mean, that's absolute b*llocks. Faletau has looked the real deal at 8 every time he's played this tour. When the rest of your pack is getting absolutely humped and throwing away possession for fun, what on earth use is a 'carrying' 8? If the stats are anything to go by, he made almost as many tackles as both flankers put together. For a team that only had 30-something% of the possession, that sounds like poor performances from 6 and 7 meaning that the 8 was forced to go into 'auxiliary flanker' mode.
My logic was simple. Faletau can do pretty much everything on a rugby pitch a backrow forward is required to do. Even his lineout isn't bad. They were our best 2 backrowers by my reckoning. So Faletau at 6 (making 20 odd tackles) and carrying wider with BV in the carrying workhorse role from 8 was my go-to choice until BV broke. Not that BV hasn't racked up 20+ tackles in Test matches on the backfoot himself.

It wasn't a slight on either. As said, TF's 'good value' at 8 in the team as is. It's was more about the best use of resources. It's also academic now.
Apologies - a misquote on my part. The intention was to quote the Ginger Jedi.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Salient »

Toro wrote:It was a fantastic game of rugby. Lions definitely had the edge either side of the half which is usually NZ's area! We were shell shocked at the start of the second half, and the turning point was when they went for touch instead of taking points, huge pick up for the ABs and they kicked on from the, it was the big turning point for me.

All Blacks will be very happy with their dominance in general but unhappy with some sloppy work across the board. Turned over a lot of ball were slow to react when they did. I don't think they will be so bad in this area next week.

Who would've thought BB's kicking would've been one of strongest parts of the AB's game today? I thought he was superb taking high balls and was incredibly solid at fb.

My fav moments:

BB's one handed scoop off the ground, sickeningly sexy.
Read's hit on Farrell.
Peyper shushing the Lion's lineout. :lol:
Reiko's kirwanesque fend fake.
Line Outs a bit of a worry as well, some serious work needs to go in their.

Also add to fav moments the Lions first try, they have some runners :nod:
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by HurricaneWasp »

Tbf, its harsh on the Lions that BB decides to produce the best kicking form in his career so far, just as they turn up. He's been one of the flakiest kickers in SR for the past few seasons, but now looks metronomic. You couldn't make it up. :x
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by EverReady »

theo wrote:Just watched it again and I am not hugely disappointed. We had bags of chances and we gave away bags of unforced errors. Made quick notes of all times the Lions gave away possession.

2 mins - Daly non try
4 - Murray box kick
(6 - Williams excellent turnover)
8 - Furlong poor pass
9 - Murray box kick
(12 - NZ pen 3-0)
14 - George turned over by Retallick
(17 - AWJ clear head knock after hit on Read, staggers)
(17 - NZ try 10-0. Poor defence by Lions.
19 - Kruis ripped by Cane.
21 - Murray box kick then SOB penalised for not releasing.
24 - Farrell up and under but great turnover by Mako?
25 -AWJ drops pass
27 - Daly knock on in tackle but Lions pen. Good chance.
(29 - Lions pen 10-3)
31 - Lions fail to gather restart. Retallick over Kruis.
(32 - NZ pen 13-3)
34 - Murray box kick.
(35 - SOB wonder try 13-8. Yeo block on SBW crucial)
38 - Kruis turned over after good Lions attack. Real shame. Two half breaks by Farrell and Teo but no runners.

41 - Teo rattles SBW. Awesome but relieves territory. Then POM nicks lineout
42 - Davies fails to make touch.
43 - Christ the Lions should have scored!
45 - Murray fumble at base.
45 - Watson fumbled offload after great break. lions all over them.
48. - Murray box kick then Williams up and under
54 - Lions have had no ball then Teo defensive knock on leads to scrum for Iaone try.
(NZ 20-8)
56 - Kruis knock on. Teo off - mistake.
58 - Retallick steals lineout maul. Warburton ripped?
(59 - NZ pen 23-8 sexton offside)
61 - Watson knock on after poor Farrell pass. Slippy ball
65 - great Itoje steal. All NZ
67 - Whitelock steals lineout from pen
69 - bizarre pass from Sexton to Farrell. Ioana scores after Williams drop. Poor but really should never have been a try.
(NZ try. 30-8)
73 -SOB turnover pen. Should have passed.
80 -Webb try. He played very well.

What struck me were the 10 mins either side of halftime. The Lions were all over them. We just kept messing up the chances.

I don't think there will be many changes other than Itoje for AWJ and I don't see why Warburton is anywhere near the test side.

Kruis had a poor game but I expect will Ben kept.
That level of note taking and paying attention is very impressive
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by JM2K6 »

Clearly not pissed enough
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J Man
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by J Man »

Odd thing for me was the way the Lions completely went off the boil from the 55th minute to the 75th minute. Just psychologically lost the plot. Other than that they were in the game.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Ali's Choice »

Some key takeouts from the game;

- The ABs really missed Ben Smith, not just for his presence at fullback but because it meant Barrett had to move from his best position at 10. Cruden did not have a strong game and in the future I'd like to have injury cover for fullback off the bench. In hindsight having ALB on the pine, who can only play 13 or 12 at a stretch, was a gamble. It really disrupted our backline losing both Smith and Crotty in the first half.

- Was really surprised at how dominant our reserve props were. They really turned the game with some strong scrums midway through the second half. The Lions expected to dominate at scrum time, especially against Crockett. Surely with four nations combined they can find a better backup front row?

- Reiko Ioane showed the benefit of genuine pace. It must have been tough for Julian Savea watching that second try, seeing his test career come to a grinding halt at the hands of a younger, faster version of himself. Well done Reiko, I love seeing kids getting an opportunity and seizing it with both hands.

- Kieran Read and Jerome Kaino were both immense, and I thought they outplayed their opposite numbers quite clearly. A great effort considering how little Rugby they've both played over the past 6 months. I was pleased with the fact that Hansen resisted the temptation of playing Read on the edge, he's so much better for us as a core forward in the middle of the park. Not sure why Jerome Kaino left the field quite so early, looked like an injury or HIA and I hope it's not serious. His ball running in the first half contributed directly to the ABs gaining momentum and shutting out the bigger/heavier Lions pack.

- I give the ABs only a pass mark for handling the Lions high kicks. Ben Smith dropped several Connor Murray box kicks early, and we were very lucky that the Lions were unable to capitalise on these errors more fully. The Lions will review this test and our inability to effectively diffuse Murray's high kicks will not go unnoticed. That's why I'm reluctant to bring Naholo into the team if Ben Smith is unavailable, and would prefer a player like Jordie Barrett who is great under the high ball. Thinking outside the square a bit, and bringing someone like Cory Jane into the squad could be a good move as well, I can almost guarantee that if given the chance for a swansong in the no.14 jersey against the Lions at Westpac Stadium, he'd go well and wouldn't let NZ down.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by JM2K6 »

Kaino got smashed by Cane when Williams stepped them both. Looked like a big collision.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Favourite moments:
- the try (beautiful)
- sexton.... is a not a Ref (thank you Jaco)
- teo and SBW - both very physical
- battle of the lineouts

KG
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Ali's Choice »

JM2K6 wrote:Kaino got smashed by Cane when Williams stepped them both. Looked like a big collision.
Hope he's okay. We don't really have anyone to replace him with who can match his toughness and experience.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by redderneck »

Bowtie wrote:Was AWJ concussed after that tackle on Read at around 16:48 game clock? Should have gone for an HIA methinks.
He had the look of a man who was touring within himself from that point on. Clearly the blow fecked him up.

NZ should have done better with the one man advantage for as long as they had it when you think about it.

Just as bloody well it was only their 2nd game of the season!
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by mr bungle »

Ali's Choice wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Kaino got smashed by Cane when Williams stepped them both. Looked like a big collision.
Hope he's okay. We don't really have anyone to replace him with who can match his toughness and experience.
Nisbo said he passed the HIA but stayed off as a sub.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Miguel Indurain »

redderneck wrote:
Bowtie wrote:Was AWJ concussed after that tackle on Read at around 16:48 game clock? Should have gone for an HIA methinks.
He had the look of a man who was touring within himself from that point on. Clearly the blow fecked him up.

NZ should have done better with the one man advantage for as long as they had it when you think about it.

Just as bloody well it was only their 2nd game of the season!
I certainly thought AWJ was concussed during those series of tackles. He looked glassy eyed from then on.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by JB1981 »

Ali's Choice wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Kaino got smashed by Cane when Williams stepped them both. Looked like a big collision.
Hope he's okay. We don't really have anyone to replace him with who can match his toughness and experience.
He passed the HIA so will be good to go next week.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by kiwidutchie »

Marcus50 wrote:the game was decided up for by a dominant AB tight 5. Perhaps not what Gatland anticipated
I'd give the front row's an even grade. No front row dominated or folded. The AB's 4 and 5 were immense in the tight. Some work needed at lineout time as the timing was a bit off, but in the tight aspects of the game, Whitelock and Retallick were amazing.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Dork Lard »

Mr Retallick and Captain Kieran Read didn't miss the show today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3drsiptbSM
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Ali's Choice »

I thought the Lions were once again weaker than the sum of their parts. I think both England and Ireland would have beaten the Lions based on last night's performance. I guess that's the challenge of bringing a team together over a month once every four years, combinations aren't there and you're always going to lack cohesion. I don't think the balance in the backrow or tight five is right yet, and the 10/12 axis lacks creativity.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by brat »

Ali's Choice wrote:I thought the Lions were once again weaker than the sum of their parts. I think both England and Ireland would have beaten the Lions based on last night's performance. I guess that's the challenge of bringing a team together over a month once every four years, combinations aren't there and you're always going to lack cohesion. I don't think the balance in the backrow or tight five is right yet, and the 10/12 axis lacks creativity.
Yeh they never looked like creating much - but who do they play instead..sexton/Farrell won't set the world on fire either -not sure they have the cattle
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Chiefs Mana »

The Lions have been weighed.

They have been measured.

They have been found SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY wanting!

Now go back to your 6N and keep telling yourselves how awesome you are. Pfft!
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by brat »

bimboman wrote:
Razor wrote:Rugby is all we have...apart from Sailing..Sauvignon Blanc...great skiing...humble people....etc etc.

Your Sauvignon Blanc is cats piss. I'd have claimed your Pinots if anything.
:lol:

Some of our savs are world class, as shown by the awards.. maybe you should stop drinking the tesco blends
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Hong Kong »

Relax fellas - you won. :roll: (note to self - obvious troll is obvious troll)

That was one hell of a test match but you kiwis are just waaaaaay too good, damn you! :x some big positives - Williams showing some excellent attacking options that 1/2P would never have done; JD finding some excellent lines and breaking tackles; Teo was bloody marvellous- why the merryfuck did G-man take him off? Murray seemed a little off after the knock (late-ish) but was okay otherwise.

The pack did not perform as well as they should and AWJ should have come off much earlier; SOB was fantastic and I think some are being too harsh on POM. Big V was quiet outside the scrum (wasn't it a joy to see two teams actually not trying to cheat at scrum time?); Furlong was very good and George had his moments although again, not as good as previous matches.

We had at least 3 tries which went begging but that's what happens when you have such a cracking defence as the kiwis had.

Bloody marvellous game and looking forward to game 2 - I hope all your injuries are not too serious.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Tehui »

JM2K6 wrote: Turns out it wasn't actually what he said. "A country that yearns for a series of meaning".
That makes sense.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by RuggaBugga »

Hong Kong wrote:Relax fellas - you won. :roll: (note to self - obvious troll is obvious troll)

That was one hell of a test match but you kiwis are just waaaaaay too good, damn you! :x some big positives - Williams showing some excellent attacking options that 1/2P would never have done; JD finding some excellent lines and breaking tackles; Teo was bloody marvellous- why the merryfuck did G-man take him off? Murray seemed a little off after the knock (late-ish) but was okay otherwise.

The pack did not perform as well as they should and AWJ should have come off much earlier; SOB was fantastic and I think some are being too harsh on POM. Big V was quiet outside the scrum (wasn't it a joy to see two teams actually not trying to cheat at scrum time?); Furlong was very good and George had his moments although again, not as good as previous matches.

We had at least 3 tries which went begging but that's what happens when you have such a cracking defence as the kiwis had.

Bloody marvellous game and looking forward to game 2 - I hope all your injuries are not too serious.
Wut?
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by vh5150 »

Watched the game last night from up high in the Eastern stand. Fabulous occasions and great banter with the Lions fans. That Lions try at the end of the 1st half had both sets of supporters on their feet applauding. But it was interesting hearing the Lions fans after that saying that will have awoken the ABs up and rattled their cage for the 2nf half.

It was very evident watching the second half how comfortable and relentless the ABs were on the ball between backs and forwards. They dominated between the 50 and 80th minutes.

2nd test should be a cracker. It's not over yet.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Da iawn diolch »

Has anyone looked up the stats yet? A couple of lowlights for me:
- The entire tight five carrying only just makes double figures. Horrific.
- Faletau made almost as many tackles as the two flankers combined. Abysmal work-rate.
- Murray made more tackles than either flanker, and most of the tight five.
- Some ridiculous numbers/percentages of missed tackles (Daly, Kruis).
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Hong Kong »

RuggaBugga wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:Relax fellas - you won. :roll: (note to self - obvious troll is obvious troll)

That was one hell of a test match but you kiwis are just waaaaaay too good, damn you! :x some big positives - Williams showing some excellent attacking options that 1/2P would never have done; JD finding some excellent lines and breaking tackles; Teo was bloody marvellous- why the merryfuck did G-man take him off? Murray seemed a little off after the knock (late-ish) but was okay otherwise.

The pack did not perform as well as they should and AWJ should have come off much earlier; SOB was fantastic and I think some are being too harsh on POM. Big V was quiet outside the scrum (wasn't it a joy to see two teams actually not trying to cheat at scrum time?); Furlong was very good and George had his moments although again, not as good as previous matches.

We had at least 3 tries which went begging but that's what happens when you have such a cracking defence as the kiwis had.

Bloody marvellous game and looking forward to game 2 - I hope all your injuries are not too serious.
Wut?
I was referring to obvious trolls (the previous two before my post IIRC)
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by mr bungle »

Da iawn diolch wrote:Has anyone looked up the stats yet? A couple of lowlights for me:
- The entire tight five carrying only just makes double figures. Horrific.
Remarkable as I reckon Mako carried 5 or so times in the first 20.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by CrazyIslander »

mr bungle wrote:
Da iawn diolch wrote:Has anyone looked up the stats yet? A couple of lowlights for me:
- The entire tight five carrying only just makes double figures. Horrific.
Remarkable as I reckon Mako carried 5 or so times in the first 20.
I think he was referring to metres gained. The problem there wasn't repeated forward carries to garner momentum.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by vh5150 »

ESPN stats http://www.espn.com.au/rugby/matchstats ... gue=268565

Plenty for the ABs to work in on. They will be disappointed in their line out and tackle conversion rates.

Lions tackle count drained them and ABs won the breakdown and metres gained handsomely. I. Summary ABs moved down the field and the Lions moved across it (great try aside)

Highlight of the night was when Webb scored and the Lions supporter next to me gave me a gentle elbow and said "team that scores the last try wins" :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by vh5150 »

Image
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Da iawn diolch
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Da iawn diolch »

CrazyIslander wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Da iawn diolch wrote:Has anyone looked up the stats yet? A couple of lowlights for me:
- The entire tight five carrying only just makes double figures. Horrific.
Remarkable as I reckon Mako carried 5 or so times in the first 20.
I think he was referring to metres gained. The problem there wasn't repeated forward carries to garner momentum.
Sorry, I was indeed referring to metres gained. Embarrassing numbers for our most able pack of carriers.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Sonny Blount »

That came down to the engine rooms.

Moody, Taylor, Franks, Whitelock, Retallick >>>> Vunipola, George, Furlong, Jones, Kruis, Itoje

Nothing to do with combinations, that Saracens pack plays together as much as the AB pack. Nothing to do with teammates making players look better as the Lions have the cattle for everyone to shine.


Missed tackles was horrendous for the All Blacks though and I think Wayne Smith will be hammering them for it this week.
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Post by mrbrownstone »

vh5150 wrote:Image
That can't be right - no way was possession 50/50.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Fat Old Git »

The link above says it was 61 - 30 to the ABs for possession. And 62 - 37 for territory.

Not sure who the missing 1% went to.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions FIRST TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Fat Old Git »

Just seen some footage showing the ABs hanging around taking selfies with Lions fans post match. :thumbup:

And SBW giving some kid his shorts and socks!
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