Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

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Hawk97
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Hawk97 »

mr bungle wrote:
Hawk97 wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
CM11 wrote:Not sure of your logic there with regards to England and Ireland's chances. Bar the WC final, we've come to the closest to beating NZ in NZ since they were last beaten there in 09
England lost by 1 point in NZ in 2014, which beats your loss by 3 points in 2013.
CM11 wrote:and we're the only side to have beaten them in recent years.
We've had one win each since 2009. Yours is more recent, ours more comprehensive.

A 4.75 point rankings gap suggests England are currently the better side.

and that was in Auckland :shock:

So effin close!
It was Forsyth Barr, and I was there. Never felt like a loss was pending. A lateish try followed up by a converted try conceded at the death when 8 points ahead...

Oh yeah. Eden Park was only 5 points, mind. Were the ABs undercooked? We were a shell of what we are now.
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mr bungle
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by mr bungle »

Hawk97 wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Hawk97 wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
CM11 wrote:Not sure of your logic there with regards to England and Ireland's chances. Bar the WC final, we've come to the closest to beating NZ in NZ since they were last beaten there in 09
England lost by 1 point in NZ in 2014, which beats your loss by 3 points in 2013.
CM11 wrote:and we're the only side to have beaten them in recent years.
We've had one win each since 2009. Yours is more recent, ours more comprehensive.

A 4.75 point rankings gap suggests England are currently the better side.

and that was in Auckland :shock:

So effin close!
It was Forsyth Barr, and I was there. Never felt like a loss was pending. A lateish try followed up by a converted try conceded at the death when 8 points ahead...

Oh yeah. Eden Park was only 5 points, mind. Were the ABs undercooked? We were a shell of what we are now.
We start seasons slow. I remember it as a really good, competitive series from England's point of view.
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JM2K6
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by JM2K6 »

CM11 wrote:I'd agree England have a better chance alright but they were hardly fantastic away from home in the 6N. Really should have lost both games.
Nah, we were all over Wales for the final 20.

Given we were missing some really key players I think most England fans recognise we were below the standards of earlier in the season but are still happy with the outcome. Complaining about our one loss in 19 or whatever seems churlish. Especially as the kids just went and beat Arg twice away.
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Chuckles1188
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Oh yeah, forgot the 1 point victory was the one where the All Blacks had it sealed up with ten to go, the Eden Park game was the 5 pointer. Which says a lot about how dangerous it is to read too much into the exact margin of victory - the Eden Park test was real knife edge stuff but ended with a 5 point deficit, the Forsyth Barr game was won by the 50th minute but England managed to salvage a late score to make it look closer than it really was
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Hawk97
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Hawk97 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Oh yeah, forgot the 1 point victory was the one where the All Blacks had it sealed up with ten to go, the Eden Park game was the 5 pointer. Which says a lot about how dangerous it is to read too much into the exact margin of victory - the Eden Park test was real knife edge stuff but ended with a 5 point deficit, the Forsyth Barr game was won by the 50th minute but England managed to salvage a late score to make it look closer than it really was
Look at the team from EP.

FB 15 Mike Brown
RW 14 Marland Yarde
OC 13 Manu Tuilagi
IC 12 Kyle Eastmond
LW 11 Jonny May
FH 10 Freddie Burns
SH 9 Ben Youngs
N8 8 Ben Morgan
OF 7 Chris Robshaw (c)
BF 6 James Haskell
RL 5 Geoff Parling
LL 4 Joe Launchbury
TP 3 David Wilson
HK 2 Rob Webber
LP 1 Joe Marler

Burns at FH, Yarde and May on wings, no Billy V. Eastmond at IC?! and people are worrying about Farrell there...
Last edited by Hawk97 on Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bullettyme
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Bullettyme »

JM2K6 wrote:Especially as the kids just went and beat Arg twice away.
Everyone beats Argentina away.
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Hawk97 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Oh yeah, forgot the 1 point victory was the one where the All Blacks had it sealed up with ten to go, the Eden Park game was the 5 pointer. Which says a lot about how dangerous it is to read too much into the exact margin of victory - the Eden Park test was real knife edge stuff but ended with a 5 point deficit, the Forsyth Barr game was won by the 50th minute but England managed to salvage a late score to make it look closer than it really was
Look at the team from EP.

FB 15 Mike Brown
RW 14 Marland Yarde
OC 13 Manu Tuilagi
IC 12 Kyle Eastmond
LW 11 Jonny May
FH 10 Freddie Burns
SH 9 Ben Youngs
N8 8 Ben Morgan
OF 7 Chris Robshaw (c)
BF 6 James Haskell
RL 5 Geoff Parling
LL 4 Joe Launchbury
TP 3 David Wilson
HK 2 Rob Webber
LP 1 Joe Marler

Burns at FH, Yarde and May on wings, no Billy V. Eastmond at IC?! and people are worrying about Farrell there...
That team showed up because Saints and Sarries had played the premiership final the week before. Stupid shitty RFU bureaucrats
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Hawk97
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Hawk97 »

I can't remember, who missed out? Hartley, Lawes, Billy and Faz?
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CM11
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by CM11 »

Mahoney wrote:
CM11 wrote:Not sure of your logic there with regards to England and Ireland's chances. Bar the WC final, we've come to the closest to beating NZ in NZ since they were last beaten there in 09
England lost by 1 point in NZ in 2014, which beats your loss by 3 points in 2013.
CM11 wrote:and we're the only side to have beaten them in recent years.
We've had one win each since 2009. Yours is more recent, ours more comprehensive.

A 4.75 point rankings gap suggests England are currently the better side.
That'll teach me to look up results on my phone. But were you drawing in the final minutes and should have been awarded a kickable penalty only for it to go the other way and lose to a DG from the subsequent lineout? ;)

I've said England have the better chance so your final comment is superfluous although I could point to our last match against each other...
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naki
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by naki »

It's ok lads, you can both come down here and nearly beat us anytime you like :thumbup:
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Hawk97
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Hawk97 »

naki wrote:It's ok lads, you can both come down here and nearly beat us anytime you like :thumbup:
Or you can come up here and we nearly beat you, as well.

:x
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naki
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by naki »

Hawk97 wrote:
naki wrote:It's ok lads, you can both come down here and nearly beat us anytime you like :thumbup:
Or you can come up here and we nearly beat you, as well.

:x
Only for half the gate and if you promise not to remove the 'nearly' aspect
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Mahoney
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Mahoney »

CM11 wrote:I could point to our last match against each other...
You could, but I'm sure a fair minded man like you would prefer to use the tables from the last two tournaments in which both our teams took part.

At least our squabbling over the scraps under their table is amusing the lordly ones.
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Oxbow »

Hawk97 wrote:I can't remember, who missed out? Hartley, Lawes, Billy and Faz?
Wood, Luther, Dickson, Goode and Ashton all played on that tour.
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nardol
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by nardol »

England will always be in a better position because of sheer volume of players. They lose a player they have several waiting to take over.

Ireland lose a player like poc and sob (last WC) were bringing teenagers in.
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Hawk97
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Hawk97 »

nardol wrote:England will always be in a better position because of sheer volume of players. They lose a player they have several waiting to take over.

Ireland lose a player like poc and sob (last WC) were bringing teenagers in.

Can't seem to rub together a decent scrum half though :x
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Denirostaxidriver »

CM11 wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
CM11 wrote:Not sure of your logic there with regards to England and Ireland's chances. Bar the WC final, we've come to the closest to beating NZ in NZ since they were last beaten there in 09
England lost by 1 point in NZ in 2014, which beats your loss by 3 points in 2013.
CM11 wrote:and we're the only side to have beaten them in recent years.
We've had one win each since 2009. Yours is more recent, ours more comprehensive.

A 4.75 point rankings gap suggests England are currently the better side.
That'll teach me to look up results on my phone. But were you drawing in the final minutes and should have been awarded a kickable penalty only for it to go the other way and lose to a DG from the subsequent lineout? ;)

I've said England have the better chance so your final comment is superfluous although I could point to our last match against each other...
Another game where Ireland should have had a penalty ... Don't remember that to be honest. I remember the two other games in that series though. Ireland were a distance away.

People know that NZ can be caught cold. Although think they have got better at changing that.

But the reason for my thinking is simply that England are a better side with better depth. So come the end of your seasons they are going to be a bigger challenge.
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by CM11 »

The near miss was in the second test, not first. It was a surprise to everyone, to be honest, we weren't in great form at the time. Since then, we've gotten better and NZ worse, imo.

The penalty was at a scrum. Owens guessed as usual.

Again, yes England have a better chance but that doesn't mean Ireland wouldn't have a chance. We've stood up very well against NZ under Schmidt. Loss in the 80th minute, win, loss but limited NZ to one of their lowest scores in years.
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by CrazyIslander »

The English and Welsh close results in their respective first tests on tour vs the ABs was probably the reason the NZRU put in the Samoa test before the Lions series.
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Denirostaxidriver »

CM11 wrote:The near miss was in the second test, not first. It was a surprise to everyone, to be honest, we weren't in great form at the time. Since then, we've gotten better and NZ worse, imo.

The penalty was at a scrum. Owens guessed as usual.

Again, yes England have a better chance but that doesn't mean Ireland wouldn't have a chance. We've stood up very well against NZ under Schmidt. Loss in the 80th minute, win, loss but limited NZ to one of their lowest scores in years.
And all those games away that you note in the last sentence.

Not sure where NZ have got worse to be honest. But I can see one position where Ireland have got worse.
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Mr Mike
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Mr Mike »

CM11 wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
CM11 wrote:Not sure of your logic there with regards to England and Ireland's chances. Bar the WC final, we've come to the closest to beating NZ in NZ since they were last beaten there in 09
England lost by 1 point in NZ in 2014, which beats your loss by 3 points in 2013.
CM11 wrote:and we're the only side to have beaten them in recent years.
We've had one win each since 2009. Yours is more recent, ours more comprehensive.

A 4.75 point rankings gap suggests England are currently the better side.
That'll teach me to look up results on my phone. But were you drawing in the final minutes and should have been awarded a kickable penalty only for it to go the other way and lose to a DG from the subsequent lineout? ;)

I've said England have the better chance so your final comment is superfluous although I could point to our last match against each other...
The England one pointer was not as close as the Ireland second test, England were 8 down after the 80 were up and were well out of that game.

Second tests offer good chances to touring teams, I expect tomorrow to be far closer than last week and won't be surprised to see next week as the decider. NZ are most vulnerable when the pressure is off and comfortable First Test win haven't been helpful in the past. Gatland may have helped NZ a little by targeting Kaino with his comments, they may galvanize the team a little.
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theo
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by theo »

Actually it was the first test in that 2014 series at Eden Park where we really competed. The AB's won 20-15 due to a last gasp try in the corner from Conrad Smith. Was heading for a draw otherwise.
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Denirostaxidriver »

theo wrote:Actually it was the first test in that 2014 series at Eden Park where we really competed. The AB's won 20-15 due to a last gasp try in the corner from Conrad Smith. Was heading for a draw otherwise.
Luckily it is an 80 minute game :thumbup: (or 78 minute game would have been fine)
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Denirostaxidriver wrote:
theo wrote:Actually it was the first test in that 2014 series at Eden Park where we really competed. The AB's won 20-15 due to a last gasp try in the corner from Conrad Smith. Was heading for a draw otherwise.
Luckily it is an 80 minute game :thumbup: (or 78 minute game would have been fine)
If you rein in the preciousness instinct for a moment and actually read theo's post you might spot that it wasn't actually about what you seem currently to think it was about
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Denirostaxidriver »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Denirostaxidriver wrote:
theo wrote:Actually it was the first test in that 2014 series at Eden Park where we really competed. The AB's won 20-15 due to a last gasp try in the corner from Conrad Smith. Was heading for a draw otherwise.
Luckily it is an 80 minute game :thumbup: (or 78 minute game would have been fine)
If you rein in the preciousness instinct for a moment and actually read theo's post you might spot that it wasn't actually about what you seem currently to think it was about
Calm down precious. I know exactly what test was close as the second test really was not.
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Chuckles1188
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Denirostaxidriver wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Denirostaxidriver wrote:
theo wrote:Actually it was the first test in that 2014 series at Eden Park where we really competed. The AB's won 20-15 due to a last gasp try in the corner from Conrad Smith. Was heading for a draw otherwise.
Luckily it is an 80 minute game :thumbup: (or 78 minute game would have been fine)
If you rein in the preciousness instinct for a moment and actually read theo's post you might spot that it wasn't actually about what you seem currently to think it was about
Calm down precious. I know exactly what test was close as the second test really was not.
I definitely believe that you knew what the discussion was about before I pulled you up
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Mr Fedora
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Mr Fedora »

Hawk97 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Oh yeah, forgot the 1 point victory was the one where the All Blacks had it sealed up with ten to go, the Eden Park game was the 5 pointer. Which says a lot about how dangerous it is to read too much into the exact margin of victory - the Eden Park test was real knife edge stuff but ended with a 5 point deficit, the Forsyth Barr game was won by the 50th minute but England managed to salvage a late score to make it look closer than it really was
Look at the team from EP.

FB 15 Mike Brown
RW 14 Marland Yarde
OC 13 Manu Tuilagi
IC 12 Kyle Eastmond
LW 11 Jonny May
FH 10 Freddie Burns
SH 9 Ben Youngs
N8 8 Ben Morgan
OF 7 Chris Robshaw (c)
BF 6 James Haskell
RL 5 Geoff Parling
LL 4 Joe Launchbury
TP 3 David Wilson
HK 2 Rob Webber
LP 1 Joe Marler

Burns at FH, Yarde and May on wings, no Billy V. Eastmond at IC?! and people are worrying about Farrell there...
Burns played well that day. Am I right in thinking that was the last time he started for England?
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Will Tell »

Mr Mike wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
CM11 wrote:Not sure of your logic there with regards to England and Ireland's chances. Bar the WC final, we've come to the closest to beating NZ in NZ since they were last beaten there in 09
England lost by 1 point in NZ in 2014, which beats your loss by 3 points in 2013.
CM11 wrote:and we're the only side to have beaten them in recent years.
We've had one win each since 2009. Yours is more recent, ours more comprehensive.

A 4.75 point rankings gap suggests England are currently the better side.
That'll teach me to look up results on my phone. But were you drawing in the final minutes and should have been awarded a kickable penalty only for it to go the other way and lose to a DG from the subsequent lineout? ;)

I've said England have the better chance so your final comment is superfluous although I could point to our last match against each other...
The England one pointer was not as close as the Ireland second test, England were 8 down after the 80 were up and were well out of that game.

Second tests offer good chances to touring teams, I expect tomorrow to be far closer than last week and won't be surprised to see next week as the decider. NZ are most vulnerable when the pressure is off and comfortable First Test win haven't been helpful in the past. Gatland may have helped NZ a little by targeting Kaino with his comments, they may galvanize the team a little.
Also Warburton announcing that 'we are going to seek to dominate you physically...' Why don't they just shut it, focus and come out blazing on Saturday. If the lads need geeing up (which is hardly likely) then do it behind closed doors. It's also hardly likely that the All Braggs need galvanising, and what possible good can come from statements like 'you blokes had better be ready cos we are coming to dominate'? Sounds like Sky marketing pish.
Until the Lions (and we - Eng, Ire etc) can consistently focus accurately like Reade gathering and flicking without knocking on, and Smith 2x catching us napping and Williams actually taking the catch (f*ck me, 2 bits of accurate focussed play and one lapse of concentration -> 21 points & the match), we're going to come 2nd best.

My heart, as always, says Li-ons! but my head says both sides will be better...........

Last week was tense as f*ck until Reade's brilliance so bring it and may the best (red-jerseyed) side win

Li-ons!
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CM11
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by CM11 »

Denirostaxidriver wrote:
CM11 wrote:The near miss was in the second test, not first. It was a surprise to everyone, to be honest, we weren't in great form at the time. Since then, we've gotten better and NZ worse, imo.

The penalty was at a scrum. Owens guessed as usual.

Again, yes England have a better chance but that doesn't mean Ireland wouldn't have a chance. We've stood up very well against NZ under Schmidt. Loss in the 80th minute, win, loss but limited NZ to one of their lowest scores in years.
And all those games away that you note in the last sentence.

Not sure where NZ have got worse to be honest. But I can see one position where Ireland have got worse.
Well we weren't home for the one we won. ;)

Anyway, usually how well you do at home against a certain team isn't completely irrelevant to your chances away. That's especially so when it comes to NZ who usually perform very well away from home too.
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by Denirostaxidriver »

CM11 wrote:
Denirostaxidriver wrote:
CM11 wrote:The near miss was in the second test, not first. It was a surprise to everyone, to be honest, we weren't in great form at the time. Since then, we've gotten better and NZ worse, imo.

The penalty was at a scrum. Owens guessed as usual.

Again, yes England have a better chance but that doesn't mean Ireland wouldn't have a chance. We've stood up very well against NZ under Schmidt. Loss in the 80th minute, win, loss but limited NZ to one of their lowest scores in years.
And all those games away that you note in the last sentence.

Not sure where NZ have got worse to be honest. But I can see one position where Ireland have got worse.
Well we weren't home for the one we won. ;)

Anyway, usually how well you do at home against a certain team isn't completely irrelevant to your chances away. That's especially so when it comes to NZ who usually perform very well away from home too.
They colour the f**king river green in your honour. Don't do anything for anything related to black(s) :blush:
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by puntopunto »

Bullettyme wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Especially as the kids just went and beat Arg twice away.
Everyone beats Argentina away.
with 30 players unavailable?
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Re: Teo gone, Kruis gone, O Mahoney gone

Post by puntopunto »

CM11 wrote:
hermie wrote:I like the team, there I said it. On AWJ apparently he got a knock early in the first test. I thought he went well against the Crusaders which was our best game on tour. He needs to massively up his game but so do all the tight 5 if we're being honest.
My worry about AWJ is that he's not sharp and has not looked sharp all tour even in the games he supposedly played well. Fingers crossed for the guy because obviously he's quality on his best days.
those day were about five years ago
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