Planet Rugby Forum

Bauke Mollema's daughter watching the finish .

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWpKhf6gnzg/?hl=fr

Scrummie wrote:

Gospel wrote:

nuffsaid wrote:21. Bora-Argon 18: €4.5M

Are they paying Peter Sagan off the books?

Have you seen his kitchen?

Got withdrawals today. Lazy buggers get back on your bikes.

Most of them will be out for a café ride today surprised someone isn't filming it. I wouldn't want to see the sight of the bloody thing if I was in their shoes

GCN on youtube has some good extra stuff on the tour if you are into that sort of stuff - some team bus and mech truck tours, new tech overviews, looks at pro bike set-up etc.

nuffsaid wrote:

Akkerman wrote:

nuffsaid wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:

CrazyIslander wrote:Why is Froome unpopular?

It's the whole UK Postal thing, complete with wildly nationalistic fans circling the wagons at every opportunity

So what is this UK Postal thing, of which you speak?

widespread belief the brits are cheating/doped up to their eyeballs, just like the septics back in the day

I think you are right. But they are alleged crimes - one thing I don't get about cycling is that teams and riders where there has been clear evidence of cheating seem to be readily forgiven and widely supported. Astana spring to mind as a team with history, and wasn't Contador stripped of a TdF win? I don't see them being spat at

Astana are dodgy as fudge, Vino is their manager FFS But he was a genuine character who rode with élan so they get a bit more of a pass mark. Plus there isn't an army of Khazaks online who have discovered the sport in the last five years refusing to hear a single bad thing about Astana. The whole conversation is less argumentative, everyone pretty much accepts they're dirty and that's that. All that said, if Astana actually did put together a serious team together - and spent season after season grinding other teams down in the dullest way imaginable, then it's hard to imagine that person being a super popular winner either.

Contador rides like people generally think a great champion should. He doesn't rely on his team, he attacks, beat Armstrong in the mountains when Armstrong was theoretically his team leader, generally rides to win etc. etc. People like the way he rides, so they're more willing to forgive. Style points matter in cycling.

Gospel wrote:

nuffsaid wrote:21. Bora-Argon 18: €4.5M

Are they paying Peter Sagan off the books?

More information, interesting comparison charts and some background discussion in the following link.

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/07/can-suc ... -equation/

Dumbledore is talking bollocks.

Sky fans have got absolutely sweet fuck all to do with why the team are booed on the roads - for that you need to look no further than France2 going full retard every summer. Furthermore British fans new to cycling got short shrift from the old guard who seemed to resent the UK's emergence as genuine contenders on the road. The odd day in yellow for the likes of Millar and Sean Yates was about as much as they could stomach.

The timing of Armstrong's confession in 2013 landed a shit sandwich right in the British team's lap - heir's apparent to being another 'anglo' team as defending Champions and with Chris Froome showing everyone just what he could do when let off the leash.

As far as I am aware no team has answered "oui monsieur" to media accusations of doping - they all claim they're clean and shout it from the rooftops along with their fans. Some like shimanao even made a film about it. There is no "acceptance' as the aussie hipster claims, there's just massive hypocrisy.

There's a huge resentment across the continent, and indeed across the World, to British cycling's successes. Bring on the boos and envy! Oh Music to our ears...

Some just need to suck it up and accept they'll never reach our performance levels.

Tim. wrote: Dominant champions just aren't liked. Merckx wasn't until he finally started losing due to getting punched in the kidney at the height of his unpopularity.

Not here, around Brescia and Bergamo. He was adored like a God.

There were three Sanctuaries around here, in the seventies, destination of cyclists' pilgrimages: Caravaggio, Madonna della Stella and Salami Manifactury Molteni (the GOAT cyclist team).

I wouldn't be surprised if Sky pulled out of sponsoring a pro team in the next few years.

Corporate sponsorship never lasts for ever. Looking back at the tour from 2007, only about a quarter of the sponsors back then are still involved 10 years later (AG2R, Astana, Quickstep + some lottery sponsors)

Dai another day wrote:There's a huge resentment across the continent, and indeed across the World, to British cycling's successes. Bring on the boos and envy! Oh Music to our ears...

Some just need to suck it up and accept they'll never reach our performance levels.

Not the thread for your abject trolling

mikerob wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Sky pulled out of sponsoring a pro team in the next few years.

Corporate sponsorship never lasts for ever. Looking back at the tour from 2007, only about a quarter of the sponsors back then are still involved 10 years later (AG2R, Astana, Quickstep + some lottery sponsors)

It's a passion of James Murdock - so who knows how long that will last - probably up until Froome is no longer competitive.

blindcider wrote:
Not the thread for your abject trolling

But he's not that wrong.

Ukjim is absolutely right, on the track UK is second only to France in all-time medal table, maîtres and masters. No doubt.

In road races there is a gap, the first Union Jack waving on a GT podium was in 1985.

82 years training hard, but " the juice is worth the squeeze".

Alvise Martinengo wrote:

Tim. wrote: Dominant champions just aren't liked. Merckx wasn't until he finally started losing due to getting punched in the kidney at the height of his unpopularity.

Not here, around Brescia and Bergamo. He was adored like a God.

There were three Sanctuaries around here, in the seventies, destination of cyclists' pilgrimages: Caravaggio, Madonna della Stella and Salami Manifactury Molteni (the GOAT cyclist team).

He was punched by a spectator and lost what would have been his 6th tour. Also after failing a dope control at the Giro, which conveniently handed Italian Gimondi the race, he threatened - citing crowd behaviour - never to participate in another one after winning the next edition. In hindsight of course everyone loves Merckx. How could one not? But the reality is dominant champions tend to attract an amount of negative crowd attention on the road.

Re Froome, I think he'd have got a bit less stick yesterday had the tour not been going through Bardet's home region on a public holiday with him only 20 odd seconds down at the time. There's a degree overanalysing going on.

Tim. wrote:Re Froome, I think he'd have got a bit less stick yesterday had the tour not been going through Bardet's home region on a public holiday with him only 20 odd seconds down at the time. There's a degree overanalysing going on.

A definite contributing factor.

Gospel wrote:

mikerob wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Sky pulled out of sponsoring a pro team in the next few years.

Corporate sponsorship never lasts for ever. Looking back at the tour from 2007, only about a quarter of the sponsors back then are still involved 10 years later (AG2R, Astana, Quickstep + some lottery sponsors)

It's a passion of James Murdock - so who knows how long that will last - probably up until Froome is no longer competitive.

It was a passion of Oleg Tinkov too, and he fcuked off. But it's a passion of Andy Rihs, and BMC are still going 10 years now, through some ups and downs.

Gavin Duffy wrote:http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news ... de-france/

Was that a screenplay for a movie?

Brailsford loosing his aplomb.

I'm following.

Tim. wrote: In hindsight of course everyone loves Merckx.

But also in those moments, believe me.

I was there (as well now, I don't move that much, 20 km or less, if not in front of my house), in the crowd, every given Giro edition.

All dominant riders end up being booed and hated, especially when they arer part of the richest and most powerful team. Even more when in France.

I'm there on the roads and in the world of cycling, and yes there is a lot of doubt and "resentment" against SKY. But not specifically against Froome, who is by no means an antipathic character and everyone is impressed at how well he's picked up the language.

And Gospel, I don't know what you are on about with Laurent Jalabert, he's a fantastic commentator and chap in general.

This Tour is just fantastic, one of the best ever.

Yesterday's stage was amazing, I was glued to my seat. The attack by AG2R, which was planned and beautifully executed, s what I love about cycling. The response by SKY and Froome in a difficult moment, was even more staggering. Superb.

In principle, Froome will win. He seems as strong as the others in the climbs, has a stellar team (a world champion changing his back wheel for him... ) and will put time on all in the TT. But what I don't understand is how he could COLLAPSE in the final 300m at Peyragudes, I mean he lost 30" on Bardet in 300m that's unreal. Yes it was very steep, but so was the last cat 1 climb yesterday, so I don't buy into that. The thing with Froome, he's impossible to read. I often have the feeling he's not well but he's very well, and yet sometimes he cracks.

So let's see.

Uran is extremely well positioned and can win the Tour. Bardet is on fire. Aru is tiring. Dan Martin is on a mission, he will continue to attack and impress.

My podium: Froome/Uran/Bardet.

Enjoy the last week !

Xupi wrote:This Tour is just fantastic, one of the best ever.

Yesterday's stage was amazing, I was glued to my seat. The attack by AG2R, which was planned and beautifully executed, s what I love about cycling. The response by SKY and Froome in a difficult moment, was even more staggering. Superb.

In principle, Froome will win. He seems as strong as the others in the climbs, has a stellar team (a world champion changing his back wheel for him... ) and will put time on all in the TT. But what I don't understand is how he could COLLAPSE in the final 300m at Peyragudes, I mean he lost 30" on Bardet in 300m that's unreal. Yes it was very steep, but so was the last cat 1 climb yesterday, so I don't buy into that. The thing with Froome, he's impossible to read. I often have the feeling he's not well but he's very well, and yet sometimes he cracks.

So let's see.

Uran is extremely well positioned and can win the Tour. Bardet is on fire. Aru is tiring. Dan Martin is on a mission, he will continue to attack and impress.

My podium: Froome/Uran/Bardet.

Enjoy the last week !

On that finish, I reckon they were all completely cooked just Bardet was the least overdone - They all thought they had saved something and attacked one after another only to find the legs couldn't do it.

nuffsaid wrote:

zzzz wrote:

Gospel wrote:Hawk, Sky have 35M Euros to attract the best talent in the Peloton so they're in effect hitching some of Froome's strongest opponents to his wagon. So compared with say Cannondale, Sky have been buying success which to be fair to them is no different to any of the other top teams in the World Tour.

Is there a material gap between Sky and Katusha? BMC?

Not as much as some think, perhaps. This from 2016.

According to l’Equipe’s estimates on WorldTour team budgets (including TdF wildcards):

1. Team Sky: €35M
2. Katusha: €32M
3. BMC: €28M
4. Tinkoff: €25M
5. Astana: €20M
6. Etixx-Quickstep: €18M
7: Movistar: €15M
=8. Lotto-Soudal: €14M
=8. Lotto-Jumbo: €14M
10. Dimension Data: €13.5M
11. Orica-BikeExchange: €13M
12: Giant-Alpacin: €12.5M
=13: Trek-Segafredo: €12M
=13: AG2R La Mondial: €12M
15. Cofidis: €11M
16. IAM: €10.5M
=17: FDJ: €10M
=17: Cannondale: €10M
19: Lampre-Merida: €7M
20: Direct Energy: €6M
21. Bora-Argon 18: €4.5M
22. Fortuneo-Vital Concept: €3.5M

How much should we add to Skys budget to allow for the way they use British Cycling as their Bitch ?

guy smiley wrote:I reckon Froome had a hunger flat. That would explain his stalling when he's usually the equal at least of everyone around him.

Not his kind of incline. Anyone who watches La Vuelta every year will have been used to seeing Froome struggling on the 20% goat tracks.

Gospel wrote:

guy smiley wrote:I reckon Froome had a hunger flat. That would explain his stalling when he's usually the equal at least of everyone around him.

Not his kind of incline. Anyone who watches La Vuelta every year will have been used to seeing Froome struggling on the 20% goat tracks.

Can't have been a hunger flat; as we discussed at the time, Sky had a feed bag at 12.5 km to go. Or at least, if that's what it was, Froome's an awful eejit.

I think everyone was just on the limit, though. The way Martin went to accelerate at 300 to go, then promptly sat back down at 250, didn't look like it was just down to his injuries. It looked like a slow motion finish.

Cant help but feel that the route selection has followed a trend in the last 3 yrs since the emergence of Bardet. The route selected by French organisers seeming to play to Bardets strengths. Next year expect to see even steeper finishes, even more downhill finishes, and even less kms of time trials.

The lack of TT has been a general trend in recent years, and if anything, it's more an anti-Froome than pro Bardet measure. The last 2 years definitely weren't pro-Bardet. The 2015 route spent a week bashing around cobbles and northern Muurs before going near a decent size mountain, Bardet only got back in the top 10 because he was given a long leash since he had no GC chance left. 2016 had 2 long (by modern standards) TTs.

So, todays stage. Looks like a sprinter's finish or might we get a long-range breakaway?

nuffsaid wrote:So, todays stage. Looks like a sprinter's finish or might we get a long-range breakaway?

Should be enough time to allow the sprinters to get back on after the early climbs. Might benefit someone like Matthews or Degenkolb but Kittel will want the points to secure his stranglehold on the Points comp

blindcider wrote:

nuffsaid wrote:So, todays stage. Looks like a sprinter's finish or might we get a long-range breakaway?

Should be enough time to allow the sprinters to get back on after the early climbs. Might benefit someone like Matthews or Degenkolb but Kittel will want the points to secure his stranglehold on the Points comp

Yep. Shame that Cav and Sagan can't be in the mix.

Froome has it in the bag imo. The contenders had many occasions to collaborate and turn the screw on him/Sky when the latest had a difficult time but instead chose to look at each other and contemplate the possibility of a podium rather than an overall win.

There is obviously always the possibility of an accident (something I don't wish) or a fringale but otherwise I can't see Froome losing that one now. He's supposed to peak in the last week, there is no extreme weather on the cards in the Alps... Too bad, he looked in much more difficulty than during the previous editions but like I said the serious contenders chose to pretty much seat on their arse throughout the Pyrenees (beside the last 200m at Peyragudes). The loss of Richie Porte was a big one actually.

TopNacker wrote:Cant help but feel that the route selection has followed a trend in the last 3 yrs since the emergence of Bardet. The route selected by French organisers seeming to play to Bardets strengths. Next year expect to see even steeper finishes, even more downhill finishes, and even less kms of time trials.

Next year's Time Trial will finish at the bottom of the starting ramp.

DOB wrote:The lack of TT has been a general trend in recent years, and if anything, it's more an anti-Froome than pro Bardet measure. The last 2 years definitely weren't pro-Bardet. The 2015 route spent a week bashing around cobbles and northern Muurs before going near a decent size mountain, Bardet only got back in the top 10 because he was given a long leash since he had no GC chance left. 2016 had 2 long (by modern standards) TTs.

The team TT (35km) will be back next year. I also read the organizers want to make sure there will not be 2 consecutive flat stages. And good news, with the TDF starting in the Brittany region in 2018, they'll be hitting a lighter version of the cobbles, i.e. the "ribins", some sort of farm trails where you can find either small rocks or small cobbles. A specialty of Brittany, with a very famous race there called the "Tro Bro Léon" a.k.a. "The Hell of the West" (to compare to the "Hell of the North" that is Paris-Roubaix).

Nice. I remember the tour when it went across Brittany and Normandy coasts (taking in Mont Saint-Michel), was exceptionally windy and a real tough day for the riders. Was it also that region where Hoogerland got thrown into the barbed wire?

On Hawks suggestion I gave the Lance Armstrong Stages podcast a listen (not really interested in his other stuff). Now the man may be a prick and a complete bully, whatever about doping, but it's a fascinating insight into the Tour. Definitely will try to catch it after each stage going forward.

GDBFC99 wrote:Froome has it in the bag imo. The contenders had many occasions to collaborate and turn the screw on him/Sky when the latest had a difficult time but instead chose to look at each other and contemplate the possibility of a podium rather than an overall win.

There is obviously always the possibility of an accident (something I don't wish) or a fringale but otherwise I can't see Froome losing that one now. He's supposed to peak in the last week, there is no extreme weather on the cards in the Alps... Too bad, he looked in much more difficulty than during the previous editions but like I said the serious contenders chose to pretty much seat on their arse throughout the Pyrenees (beside the last 200m at Peyragudes). The loss of Richie Porte was a big one actually.

What's a fringale?

ukjim wrote:interesting wind profile today. could make for some decent attempts at a cohesive break by a team.

Very strong winds currently in the Rhône valley: https://twitter.com/LaurentBruwier/stat ... 0044782593

Could make for some bordures... if some teams are ready to go for it despite the upcoming program in the next 2 days.

happyhooker wrote:

GDBFC99 wrote:Froome has it in the bag imo. The contenders had many occasions to collaborate and turn the screw on him/Sky when the latest had a difficult time but instead chose to look at each other and contemplate the possibility of a podium rather than an overall win.

There is obviously always the possibility of an accident (something I don't wish) or a fringale but otherwise I can't see Froome losing that one now. He's supposed to peak in the last week, there is no extreme weather on the cards in the Alps... Too bad, he looked in much more difficulty than during the previous editions but like I said the serious contenders chose to pretty much seat on their arse throughout the Pyrenees (beside the last 200m at Peyragudes). The loss of Richie Porte was a big one actually.

What's a fringale?

Hunger knock.

happyhooker wrote:

GDBFC99 wrote:Froome has it in the bag imo. The contenders had many occasions to collaborate and turn the screw on him/Sky when the latest had a difficult time but instead chose to look at each other and contemplate the possibility of a podium rather than an overall win.

There is obviously always the possibility of an accident (something I don't wish) or a fringale but otherwise I can't see Froome losing that one now. He's supposed to peak in the last week, there is no extreme weather on the cards in the Alps... Too bad, he looked in much more difficulty than during the previous editions but like I said the serious contenders chose to pretty much seat on their arse throughout the Pyrenees (beside the last 200m at Peyragudes). The loss of Richie Porte was a big one actually.

What's a fringale?

the munchies...

on a bike ride you're fùcked if you get it

happyhooker wrote:

GDBFC99 wrote:Froome has it in the bag imo. The contenders had many occasions to collaborate and turn the screw on him/Sky when the latest had a difficult time but instead chose to look at each other and contemplate the possibility of a podium rather than an overall win.

There is obviously always the possibility of an accident (something I don't wish) or a fringale but otherwise I can't see Froome losing that one now. He's supposed to peak in the last week, there is no extreme weather on the cards in the Alps... Too bad, he looked in much more difficulty than during the previous editions but like I said the serious contenders chose to pretty much seat on their arse throughout the Pyrenees (beside the last 200m at Peyragudes). The loss of Richie Porte was a big one actually.

What's a fringale?

Whenever a rider doesn't feed properly during the race and is short of energy/carbs.

Ah, thanks. Hadn't heard that term

I now prefer fringale to bonk.