OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

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jdogscoop
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by jdogscoop »

We didnt win the series because the All Blacks werent their usual clinical selves. Way too many mistakes.

The Lions did very well to put us under so much pressure.

Later in the season those passes will stick, which is bad news for South Africa, Argentina and Australia.
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Tehui
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Tehui »

I don't want to take anything away from the Lions, but 24 hours later I still think the ABs blew it due to the butter on their fingers.
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indomite
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by indomite »

Tehui wrote:I don't want to take anything away from the Lions, but 24 hours later I still think the ABs blew it due to the butter on their fingers.
No doubt. Started with Savea very early on.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Sards »

jdogscoop wrote:We didnt win the series because the All Blacks werent their usual clinical selves. Way too many mistakes.

The Lions did very well to put us under so much pressure.

Later in the season those passes will stick, which is bad news for South Africa, Argentina and Australia.
Maybe the passes will stick for us too. Not overly impressed by the ABs. Or concerned.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Enzedder »

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Flockwitt
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Flockwitt »

Come back to this in the cold light of day. While I'm very pleased with the tour, the attitude of the Lions (great seeing Warburton showing what he can do) and the way the AB forwards fronted, A. Smith came back into form, the AB noobs stood up and the Bus did the business, I'm still a bit disappointed with the ABs performance. The Lions made enough mistakes that the ABs should have taken that game. A bit more patience needed, a slightly better feel for controlling the pace of the game and options taken. I'd have liked to have seen the forward pack doing a bit more straight pick and go playing closer together to support each other on the drive and set up the droppy or sucked in a few more defenders. Never quite earned the right to go wide as it were. Not enough focus on just keeping the scoreboard ticking over.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Enzedder »

You are very generous. I would say that the two defences deserve that praise and the the pressure they generated wasn't handeled well by either team.

The bus did not "do the business" in my opinion
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by SecretAgentMan »

Enzedder wrote:The bus did not "do the business" in my opinion
I agree. He's been underwhelming for the best part of 2 years now. Time to park the bus and move on.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Flockwitt »

Nah, you guys are letting past issues blinker your view on Julian, best game he's had for the ABs or Canes for a while. Blaming J. Savea for one dropped pass (when a bunch of other players on both sides dropped plenty, Sam Cane anybody?) when he was much more busy and involved than Rieko had been and pretty much everything else he did was spot on, driving through making good meters every time, recycling the ball every time (never held up), defending his wing well is hardly fair and not indicative of his performance.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by ovalball »

NZ seemed to lose their rhythm a bit after the yellow card. Game got a bit scrappy after that which suited the Lions. Both sides were guilty of rushing things a bit - but with such good defences; that's probably the only way of breaking them down.

And, were it not for that monster penalty from Daly, the ABs would still have won. Huge asset to be able to knock over penalties from your own half like that.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by SecretAgentMan »

Where did I blame him for one dropped pass? :?

He's nowhere near the force he was in 2012-14. Apart from a romp against a weak French team at the RWC, and his "busy" game last night, I'm struggling to think of another test in the past couple of years when he's been anything more than decidedly average.
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J Man
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by J Man »

The yellow card completely changed the momentum of the match. It was a fair card, but it changed the game.
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vh5150
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by vh5150 »

Savea played a blinder last year at Eden Park vs the Wobblies .. or was it the year before. People have short memories.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by SecretAgentMan »

vh5150 wrote:Savea played a blinder last year at Eden Park vs the Wobblies .. or was it the year before. People have short memories.
:roll:
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Flockwitt »

SecretAgentMan wrote:Where did I blame him for one dropped pass? :?

He's nowhere near the force he was in 2012-14. Apart from a romp against a weak French team at the RWC, and his "busy" game last night, I'm struggling to think of another test in the past couple of years when he's been anything more than decidedly average.
What else did he do wrong then that deserves him to be marked down then when so much he did was right? He has been average for the ABs the last season or so, and pretty close to woeful for the Canes this season. I wasn't at all surprised the coaches replaced him with Rieko in the previous tests. Doesn't detract from the fact he actually had a good game yesterday, dropped pass aside.

All I said was the he did a job and I believe justified the coach's faith in him yesterday. Got nothing to do with his past slump, and very pleased he did step up. Hope he keeps that into soup :)
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Enzedder »

SecretAgentMan wrote:
Enzedder wrote:The bus did not "do the business" in my opinion
I agree. He's been underwhelming for the best part of 2 years now. Time to park the bus and move on.
Let's not chuck out the baby with the bathwater eh? I reckon he was as nervous an ineffective last night as the other around him is all. Crtainly no worse.

man, imagine if he had held that pass though I wonder what may have happened.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Comrade »

2014 he was being compared with Jonah. Now he's 50/50 to start for the ABs. He still has good games, but they are becoming less frequent. Still one of the best wingers in the world. Would prefer him to Watson, Daly or Nowell
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by CrazyIslander »

Did anyone mention Williams chading down Barrett after the intercept? Thought it was a great moment.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by jdogscoop »

Im inclined to agree with Enz. The right personnel are there, including The Bus, we just need to play better. We rightfully expect those passes to stick when it comes to the All Blacks.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by naki »

CrazyIslander wrote:Did anyone mention Williams chading down Barrett after the intercept? Thought it was a great moment.
Williams chasing down BB then Davies chasing down Laumape - then Watson being in the right place at the right time - were essentially three try saving efforts in one move.

It typified the Lions desire and ball-busting effort over the last week.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Sidney Parade »

If the ball came off williams head and into Ken Owens arms, would that be accidental offside?
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by CrazyIslander »

naki wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:Did anyone mention Williams chading down Barrett after the intercept? Thought it was a great moment.
Williams chasing down BB then Davies chasing down Laumape - then Watson being in the right place at the right time - were essentially three try saving efforts in one move.

It typified the Lions desire and ball-busting effort over the last week.
It typified the series really, the ABs threatening to runaway with it but the Lions kept themselves in it through sheer will.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by lorcanoworms »

Sidney Parade wrote:If the ball came off williams head and into Ken Owens arms, would that be accidental offside?
You can knock the ball forward with your head and play on yes?
Last edited by lorcanoworms on Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Hong Kong »

Sidney Parade wrote:If the ball came off williams head and into Ken Owens arms, would that be accidental offside?
Yes.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Santa »

For me the worst thing about the tour was the way the offside was adjudicated for both sides. Modern defences are hard enough to break down without that. I would say it suited the Lions more but then I would say that.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by UncleFB »

Hong Kong wrote:
Sidney Parade wrote:If the ball came off williams head and into Ken Owens arms, would that be accidental offside?
Yes.
In all situations or only if Owen's doesn't play at it? You probably need to be more specific.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Hong Kong »

UncleFB wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:
Sidney Parade wrote:If the ball came off williams head and into Ken Owens arms, would that be accidental offside?
Yes.
In all situations or only if Owen's doesn't play at it? You probably need to be more specific.
Yes
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by UncleFB »

Hong Kong wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:
Sidney Parade wrote:If the ball came off williams head and into Ken Owens arms, would that be accidental offside?
Yes.
In all situations or only if Owen's doesn't play at it? You probably need to be more specific.
Yes
In all? So anytime a ball bounces forward of a players head no player who plays it can be deliberately offside?
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Hong Kong »

UncleFB wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:
Sidney Parade wrote:If the ball came off williams head and into Ken Owens arms, would that be accidental offside?
Yes.
In all situations or only if Owen's doesn't play at it? You probably need to be more specific.
Yes
In all? So anytime a ball bounces forward of a players head no player who plays it can be offiside?
Specific enough? Or do you need clarity? Probably from SP 😉
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by les@mooloolaba »

Watched the game again and three things I saw which have me wondering, why the AB's didn't keep the ball in hand in that last 20 and build some phases when that type of game would have suited our bench troops and A Smith so slow clearing the ball. Just gave the defence too much time to get set. And why they changed to a kicking game when the only difference between the teams in the first half was the AB's dropping the ball in scoring situations.

I reckon the coaching staff will have to look hard and long at their game plans, especially with RWC 2019 around the corner. A few coaches will be looking at the game and thinking hard and long.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by UncleFB »

Hong Kong wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Hong Kong wrote: Yes.
In all situations or only if Owen's doesn't play at it? You probably need to be more specific.
Yes
In all? So anytime a ball bounces forward of a players head no player who plays it can be offiside?
Specific enough? Or do you need clarity? Probably from SP 😉
Check my edit - left out the crucial word.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by kiwidutchie »

Image
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by comets »

kiwidutchie wrote:Image
just what the lions need, a fijian winger :P
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Toro »

ovalball wrote:NZ seemed to lose their rhythm a bit after the yellow card. Game got a bit scrappy after that which suited the Lions. Both sides were guilty of rushing things a bit - but with such good defences; that's probably the only way of breaking them down.

And, were it not for that monster penalty from Daly, the ABs would still have won. Huge asset to be able to knock over penalties from your own half like that.
Yep, absolutely bonehead penalty from Read too.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Hong Kong »

UncleFB wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:
Sidney Parade wrote:If the ball came off williams head and into Ken Owens arms, would that be accidental offside?
Yes.
In all situations or only if Owen's doesn't play at it? You probably need to be more specific.
Yes
In all? So anytime a ball bounces forward of a players head no player who plays it can be deliberately offside?
That is not the right question - I'll help. If the ball bounces off the head of a player and his team mate, in an offside position, prevents the opposition from gaining an advantage, then he is liable to be penalised.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Toro »

Hong Kong wrote: That is not the right question - I'll help. If the ball bounces off the head of a player and his team mate, in an offside position, prevents the opposition from gaining an advantage, then he is liable to be penalised.
That's not exclusive HK.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by farmerdave »

Don't think the lions defence and tenacity has been given enough quedos. There was at least one five minute period where the ABs played superb, simple and extremely patient rugby with small showings of brilliance that really should have crumbled any defence but the lions were equally patient. Lots of coulda,woulda, shoulda, but both teams held each other for a draw and after 2005 I think I much prefer this version.
Thanks Lions.
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Hong Kong »

Toro wrote:
Hong Kong wrote: That is not the right question - I'll help. If the ball bounces off the head of a player and his team mate, in an offside position, prevents the opposition from gaining an advantage, then he is liable to be penalised.
That's not exclusive HK.
:?: what is not exclusive?
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Re: OFFICIAL All Blacks vs B&I Lions THIRD TEST MATCH THREAD

Post by Toro »

farmerdave wrote:Don't think the lions defence and tenacity has been given enough quedos. There was at least one five minute period where the ABs played superb, simple and extremely patient rugby with small showings of brilliance that really should have crumbled any defence but the lions were equally patient. Lots of coulda,woulda, shoulda, but both teams held each other for a draw and after 2005 I think I much prefer this version.
Thanks Lions.
Their defence was massive, the most amazing was in the second test when we attacked from around halfway in the second half and just keep losing ground, couldn't get anywhere. You don't often see the ABs go backwards in so many consecutive phases, and it wasn't frenetic from the Lions, just suffocating.

A great series albeit a disappointing result. Some real tension that we haven't had since the RWC.
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