Jumping to take a pass

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armchair pundit
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by armchair pundit »

JB1981 wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:Not here for a whinge, but genuinely interested if you could effectively employ it as a pick-and-go tactic.
It's already done when players jump/dive over the ruck to score. What is the legal defence?
strip the ball ? get under the player ?
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Magic »

Anonymous. wrote:
J Man wrote:Surely that needs to be changed. What a farce :lol:

It would be worth deliberately doing it to milk a penalty.
Always feel sorry for the tackler when that happens. I did jump for joy though 8)
I agree 100%. It was a penalty but they're always unfair imo.
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Cartman
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Cartman »

Uthikoloshe wrote:Lions, lost the test to SA with ROG. Won it the same way here.
Was thinking the same thing at the time
Also, got the early red card they should have gotten in Pretoria
Yer Man
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Yer Man »

Grizz Wyllie wrote:Not here for a whinge, but genuinely interested if you could effectively employ it as a pick-and-go tactic.
Only if you had a scrum half who could consistently throw a shit pass
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JM2K6
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by JM2K6 »

This happens every now and then but it's pretty rare. No idea why people are suddenly deciding it's a big deal. I hate this particular interpretation of the law but given it was a no arms tackle I won't lose much sleep over it
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DOB
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by DOB »

JM2K6 wrote:This happens every now and then but it's pretty rare. No idea why people are suddenly deciding it's a big deal. I hate this particular interpretation of the law but given it was a no arms tackle I won't lose much sleep over it
It's never lost the All Blacks a test before.
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Tehui
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Tehui »

JB1981 wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:Not here for a whinge, but genuinely interested if you could effectively employ it as a pick-and-go tactic.
It's already done when players jump/dive over the ruck to score. What is the legal defence?
If you've already committed to the tackle and the opposing player receives a pass and jumps toward the try line, you have to hit the floor and let the jumping player score otherwise it's a yellow card and penalty try apparently.
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Keith
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Keith »

Yer Man wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:Not here for a whinge, but genuinely interested if you could effectively employ it as a pick-and-go tactic.
Only if you had a scrum half who could consistently throw a shit pass
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The Man Without Fear
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by The Man Without Fear »

They can pass?
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DOB
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by DOB »

Keith wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:Not here for a whinge, but genuinely interested if you could effectively employ it as a pick-and-go tactic.
Only if you had a scrum half who could consistently throw a shit pass
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"Brian, what did you say to Mick on his appointment as scrumhalf coach for the Lions?"

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Margin_Walker
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Margin_Walker »

Tehui wrote:
JB1981 wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:Not here for a whinge, but genuinely interested if you could effectively employ it as a pick-and-go tactic.
It's already done when players jump/dive over the ruck to score. What is the legal defence?
If you've already committed to the tackle and the opposing player receives a pass and jumps toward the try line, you have to hit the floor and let the jumping player score otherwise it's a yellow card and penalty try apparently.
Nope, he's jumped after receiving the ball in your example. Sinkler jumped to catch the ball from memory.

Not seen it back tbf. Thread needs a gif
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Tehui
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Tehui »

Margin_Walker wrote:
Tehui wrote:
JB1981 wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:Not here for a whinge, but genuinely interested if you could effectively employ it as a pick-and-go tactic.
It's already done when players jump/dive over the ruck to score. What is the legal defence?
If you've already committed to the tackle and the opposing player receives a pass and jumps toward the try line, you have to hit the floor and let the jumping player score otherwise it's a yellow card and penalty try apparently.
Nope, he's jumped after receiving the ball in your example. Sinkler jumped to catch the ball from memory.

Not seen it back tbf. Thread needs a gif
Watch at 5:28 and come back to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiuCwlf2CXw
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UncleFB
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by UncleFB »

Tehui wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Tehui wrote:
JB1981 wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:Not here for a whinge, but genuinely interested if you could effectively employ it as a pick-and-go tactic.
It's already done when players jump/dive over the ruck to score. What is the legal defence?
If you've already committed to the tackle and the opposing player receives a pass and jumps toward the try line, you have to hit the floor and let the jumping player score otherwise it's a yellow card and penalty try apparently.
Nope, he's jumped after receiving the ball in your example. Sinkler jumped to catch the ball from memory.

Not seen it back tbf. Thread needs a gif
Watch at 5:28 and come back to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiuCwlf2CXw
Hadn't actually seen the hold on TJP until now. I was thinking it didn't have an effect, but TJP jumping out from being held pushed him away from the hole Murray ran into - now I see why he was so pissed off at the time.
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terangi48
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by terangi48 »

That was a clever way to win a penalty at the death..........never seen it used before......must watch for it in future.

I watched the game and never picked that up......was puzzled at the time what the penalty was for. Noted the long

discussion Read had with the ref and Charlie........devious.....yet legal by all accounts! I wonder what the waiting tackler has

to do in future? Wave the player through like a toreador?
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Keith
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Keith »

terangi48 wrote:That was a clever way to win a penalty at the death..........never seen it used before......must watch for it in future.

I watched the game and never picked that up......was puzzled at the time what the penalty was for. Noted the long

discussion Read had with the ref and Charlie........devious.....yet legal by all accounts! I wonder what the waiting tackler has

to do in future? Wave the player through like a toreador?
Oh dear.
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Vuaka
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Vuaka »

Two weeks ago in the Fiji vs Scotland game, a Scot jumped into the air to take the ball right at the gain line. Setting aside that the ball was probably for his outside man, the Scot jumped straight into the tackle of a Fijian defender.

There was no way that the defender could have moved away or avoided the attacker.

The result was a penalty to Scotland.

Many years ago on a NH tour game, an opposition player caught the ball and ran back towards the ruck and jumped over it. The Fijian defender tackled him in the air as he was jumping. Penalty awarded against Fiji.

It's a shit rule.
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Mr Mike
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Mr Mike »

The Man Without Fear wrote:Grow up. If you want to look for a reason for the defeat, look at the red card and the terrible place kicking.
I think we need more time with the tapes before leaping to conclusions.
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Wilderbeast »

It's generally agreed that there are so many rules in rugby that you could find an infringement at every breakdown but the good refs let the game flow and tend to focus on indiscretions seriously impacting the game.

I kind of wish this was one of those penalties that was allowed to continue due to the bizarre situation around it. For memory, the Lions player jumps into Charlie and that's penalty AB's but for the fact that he was jumping to catch the ball. This, bizarrely, reverses the penalty and makes Charlie in the wrong despite the fact that he is simply committing to a tackle any forward in his position would make.

It's a f**king weird one. Someone post a gif already. And YouTube links don't count.
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by sunnybanana »

I was cheering on the Lions but that was a very iffy penalty. Clearly jumped into the tackle.
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hermie
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by hermie »

Jimmy Looselips wrote:It is a clear penalty under current rules, but does that mean you can jump to avoid being allowed to be tackled? Surely that is an anomaly of the laws that needs correcting.
He was jumping to take the pass. You can't jump into a tackle. That's a penalty the other way as far as I know.
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Wilderbeast »

hermie wrote:
Jimmy Looselips wrote:It is a clear penalty under current rules, but does that mean you can jump to avoid being allowed to be tackled? Surely that is an anomaly of the laws that needs correcting.
He was jumping to take the pass. You can't jump into a tackle. That's a penalty the other way as far as I know.
Exactly, it's why this is a f**ked up penalty. Someone post a god damn gif.
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Flockwitt »

Fat Old Git wrote:
True Blue wrote:Anyone can post a video on the penalty? Looks ridiculous in real time but if the ball is in contest and the guy is in the air then it's fair enough.
The pass was high so he probably had to jump to secure it. But it all happened very quickly.
Yep. Nobody at fault. Even Garces. He had to apply the letter of the law there. Could. You. Imagine. The. Meltdown. If he had not given it...
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Dumbledore »

Wilderbeast wrote:It's generally agreed that there are so many rules in rugby that you could find an infringement at every breakdown but the good refs let the game flow and tend to focus on indiscretions seriously impacting the game.

I kind of wish this was one of those penalties that was allowed to continue due to the bizarre situation around it. For memory, the Lions player jumps into Charlie and that's penalty AB's but for the fact that he was jumping to catch the ball. This, bizarrely, reverses the penalty and makes Charlie in the wrong despite the fact that he is simply committing to a tackle any forward in his position would make.

It's a f**king weird one. Someone post a gif already. And YouTube links don't count.
Image

He jumps to catch the ball, Faumuina dives at his knees in the air. The referee is going to blow that every single time. Clearly not a deliberate tactic, awful pass. If Faumuina hadn't gone forward at Sinckler in the air he probably would have been fine.
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Wilderbeast »

Can't blame Charlie for lining up to tackle his opposite but point taken that if he held his ground then he would have been fine, instead he engaged by diving forward. Still messed up but I can see the penalty a bit clearer now.

Sexy gif :thumbup:
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BlueThunder
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by BlueThunder »

There is no reason for Charlie to expect the guy to jump like that.
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booze
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by booze »

Keith wrote:
Jimmy Looselips wrote:It is a clear penalty under current rules, but does that mean you can jump to avoid being allowed to be tackled? Surely that is an anomaly of the laws that needs correcting.
He jump to catch the pass, nothing to do with avoiding a tackle. Look at it in context.
He did, its a nonsense that you can be penalised for it. It was brought into to protect players fielding high kicks. Bit silly that it is applied in the scenario
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Dumbledore »

BlueThunder wrote:There is no reason for Charlie to expect the guy to jump like that.
He only goes forward after Sinckler has left the ground :| You can see him slide across, get set, then dive forward as Sinckler is coming towards him.

Sickening arm-waving from Murray btw. Would love to see that start getting penalised.
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booze
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by booze »

Dumbledore wrote:
BlueThunder wrote:There is no reason for Charlie to expect the guy to jump like that.
He only goes forward after Sinckler has left the ground :| You can see him slide across, get set, then dive forward as Sinckler is coming towards him.

Sickening arm-waving from Murray btw. Would love to see that start getting penalised.
You are talking milliseconds mate. Ridiculous penalty
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by obelixtim »

So if someone is diving over the line to score a try, he can't be tackled? Something wrong there.
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by I like haggis »

Dumbledore wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:It's generally agreed that there are so many rules in rugby that you could find an infringement at every breakdown but the good refs let the game flow and tend to focus on indiscretions seriously impacting the game.

I kind of wish this was one of those penalties that was allowed to continue due to the bizarre situation around it. For memory, the Lions player jumps into Charlie and that's penalty AB's but for the fact that he was jumping to catch the ball. This, bizarrely, reverses the penalty and makes Charlie in the wrong despite the fact that he is simply committing to a tackle any forward in his position would make.

It's a f**king weird one. Someone post a gif already. And YouTube links don't count.
Image

He jumps to catch the ball, Faumuina dives at his knees in the air. The referee is going to blow that every single time. Clearly not a deliberate tactic, awful pass. If Faumuina hadn't gone forward at Sinckler in the air he probably would have been fine.
Absolutely no need to jump to catch that pass...
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theo
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by theo »

You do see the difference between someone diving to the ground to score and someone up ended by having their legs taken out don't you?

I think it is a soft penalty and had he hit him high and kept him upright I doubt anything would have been given.
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Tim. »

theo wrote:You do see the difference between someone diving to the ground to score and someone up ended by having their legs taken out don't you?

I think it is a soft penalty and had he hit him high and kept him upright I doubt anything would have been given.
He didn't use his arms either. He'd have given away a pen either way.
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Keith
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Keith »

And it was no arms. Should have seen yellow.
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by guy smiley »

Dumbledore wrote:

Sickening arm-waving from Murray btw. Would love to see that start getting penalised.
Comical. Flapenatic.
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Winnie »

Keith wrote:And it was no arms. Should have seen yellow.
In their rush to be outraged this small fact seems to have been overlooked
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Tehui
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Tehui »

Tim. wrote:
theo wrote:You do see the difference between someone diving to the ground to score and someone up ended by having their legs taken out don't you?

I think it is a soft penalty and had he hit him high and kept him upright I doubt anything would have been given.
He didn't use his arms either. He'd have given away a pen either way.
Bullsh!t. His right arm is in front of his own body. And if you can see his left arm tucked in from that TV angle, you must have x-ray vision.

Just accept the fact that you're biased, and can't tell your arse from your elbow.

It was a soft penalty that played a crucial part in determining the game's outcome. The game is over. The penalty was ridiculous. It is, what it is.
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Keith
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Keith »

Tehui wrote:
Tim. wrote:
theo wrote:You do see the difference between someone diving to the ground to score and someone up ended by having their legs taken out don't you?

I think it is a soft penalty and had he hit him high and kept him upright I doubt anything would have been given.
He didn't use his arms either. He'd have given away a pen either way.
Bullsh!t. His right arm is in front of his own body. And if you can see his left arm tucked in from that TV angle, you must have x-ray vision.

Just accept the fact that you're biased, and can't tell your arse from your elbow.
His right arm is not wrapping. Open your other eye, Mr. Biased
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Tim. »

Tehui wrote:
Tim. wrote:
theo wrote:You do see the difference between someone diving to the ground to score and someone up ended by having their legs taken out don't you?

I think it is a soft penalty and had he hit him high and kept him upright I doubt anything would have been given.
He didn't use his arms either. He'd have given away a pen either way.
Bullsh!t. His right arm is in front of his own body. And if you can see his left arm tucked in from that TV angle, you must have x-ray vision.

Just accept the fact that you're biased, and can't tell your arse from your elbow.

It was a soft penalty that played a crucial part in determining the game's outcome. The game is over. The penalty was ridiculous. It is, what it is.
His right arm is in front of him but goes straight down to break his fall and never wraps. And you're right, no, I can't see his left arm in that shitty def gif. But I can see it on Sky's HD vid on TV inc their other angles. He tackled a man in the air with no arms.
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Tehui
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Tehui »

Tim. wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Tim. wrote:
theo wrote:You do see the difference between someone diving to the ground to score and someone up ended by having their legs taken out don't you?

I think it is a soft penalty and had he hit him high and kept him upright I doubt anything would have been given.
He didn't use his arms either. He'd have given away a pen either way.
Bullsh!t. His right arm is in front of his own body. And if you can see his left arm tucked in from that TV angle, you must have x-ray vision.

Just accept the fact that you're biased, and can't tell your arse from your elbow.

It was a soft penalty that played a crucial part in determining the game's outcome. The game is over. The penalty was ridiculous. It is, what it is.
His right arm is in front of him but goes straight down to break his fall and never wraps. And you're right, no, I can't see his left arm in that shitty def gif. But I can see it on Sky's HD vid on TV inc their other angles. He tackled a man in the air with no arms.
Disagree.

Enjoy your win.
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Re: Jumping to take a pass

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

J Man wrote:Surely that needs to be changed. What a farce :lol:

It would be worth deliberately doing it to milk a penalty.
Haven't rerun it but initial impression was that it wasn't even a tackle. Faumuina low/chop/no arms?
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