3rd Test Changes for both sides?

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Jake
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3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Jake »

BIL:

Jack to start and I've have Marler on bench.

Tempted to get Lawes in but on balance, I'd stay as we are and run Anon-Wyn into the ground, swap him at 50.

AB's

Laumape?
Maybe Savea for his work rate?
Taurua
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Taurua »

SBW probably gets suspended anyway, so I guess that's Laumape in, and Jordie getting on the bench.
harry 22
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by harry 22 »

id stick best on the bench. dont think Owens brings much to the party. would consider Henderson on the bench over Stander

the win glosses over what was a very sloppy first 50/60mins but hard to make changes after a win like that

edit. AWJ was a lot better today, but still not sure Lawes wouldnt be better again
Last edited by harry 22 on Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jim Lahey
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Jim Lahey »

Cane looked a bit f**ked coming off, was he injured?
NZ lost the forward arm wrestle when he went off imo, although Ardie brings a lot in terms of carrying
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Wignu »

AB's: Would guess Laumape in at 12 if Crotty isn't fit, Cruden can just pack his bags and put Sopoaga on the Bench.

BIL: Can we please have Vunipola on for the full 80 (take time off for his yellows).
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Flametop
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Flametop »

Jake wrote:BIL:

Jack to start and I've have Marler on bench.

Tempted to get Lawes in but on balance, I'd stay as we are and run Anon-Wyn into the ground, swap him at 50.

AB's

Laumape?
Maybe Savea for his work rate?
I reckon that's Gatland's plan also. He's 31 now so that's another 19 years to go.
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Winnie
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Winnie »

Flametop wrote:
Jake wrote:BIL:

Jack to start and I've have Marler on bench.

Tempted to get Lawes in but on balance, I'd stay as we are and run Anon-Wyn into the ground, swap him at 50.

AB's

Laumape?
Maybe Savea for his work rate?
I reckon that's Gatland's plan also. He's 31 now so that's another 19 years to go.
:lol: :lol:
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Torquemada 1420
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

Jake wrote:BIL:

Jack to start and I've have Marler on bench.

Tempted to get Lawes in but on balance, I'd stay as we are and run Anon-Wyn into the ground, swap him at 50.

AB's

Laumape?
Maybe Savea for his work rate?
AWJ was invisible. You can't afford 50 mins of that.

And Vunipola should be sent home on the 1st discount flight.
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Diego
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Diego »

Swap McGrath for Vunipola. Drop one of Te'o/Nowell from the bench for Henderson. That's about it.
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Jake
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Jake »

Diego wrote:Swap McGrath for Vunipola. Drop one of Te'o/Nowell from the bench for Henderson. That's about it.
Agree - Nowell.
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Gospel »

Jake wrote:I'd stay as we are and run Anon-Wyn into the ground, swap him at 50.
AWJ's fifty minute cameos are bizarre given he's always the least dynamic of the locks on display. If he's punching himself out in that time then he's not fit enough to start. Just what are the Lions getting from it?
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Diego
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Diego »

Jake wrote:
Diego wrote:Swap McGrath for Vunipola. Drop one of Te'o/Nowell from the bench for Henderson. That's about it.
Agree - Nowell.
I'd probably go for Te'o myself. Leaving Nowell out means there's no backs three cover in the squad.
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Jake
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Jake »

Diego wrote:
Jake wrote:
Diego wrote:Swap McGrath for Vunipola. Drop one of Te'o/Nowell from the bench for Henderson. That's about it.
Agree - Nowell.
I'd probably go for Te'o myself. Leaving Nowell out means there's no backs three cover in the squad.
I struggle with leaving Te'o out. He's a game changer, although I take your point.
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Openside
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Openside »

Can we merge this thread with the main one discussing this.

:D
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Mr Fedora
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Mr Fedora »

Wignu wrote:Cruden can just pack his bags and put Sopoaga on the Bench.
Tough crowd. Wasn't one of his best, but ffs, the guys been a match-winner for the Chiefs and the ABs time and time again.
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Flametop wrote:
Jake wrote:BIL:

Jack to start and I've have Marler on bench.

Tempted to get Lawes in but on balance, I'd stay as we are and run Anon-Wyn into the ground, swap him at 50.

AB's

Laumape?
Maybe Savea for his work rate?
I reckon that's Gatland's plan also. He's 31 now so that's another 19 years to go.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Jake wrote:
Diego wrote:
Jake wrote:
Diego wrote:Swap McGrath for Vunipola. Drop one of Te'o/Nowell from the bench for Henderson. That's about it.
Agree - Nowell.
I'd probably go for Te'o myself. Leaving Nowell out means there's no backs three cover in the squad.
I struggle with leaving Te'o out. He's a game changer, although I take your point.
Henderson has absolutely no chance unless there is an injury to a lock.
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henry
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by henry »

Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Jake wrote:BIL:

Jack to start and I've have Marler on bench.

Tempted to get Lawes in but on balance, I'd stay as we are and run Anon-Wyn into the ground, swap him at 50.

AB's

Laumape?
Maybe Savea for his work rate?
AWJ was invisible. You can't afford 50 mins of that.

And Vunipola should be sent home on the 1st discount flight.
:lol:

Watch. More. Carefully.
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henry
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by henry »

harry 22 wrote:id stick best on the bench. dont think Owens brings much to the party. would consider Henderson on the bench over Stander

the win glosses over what was a very sloppy first 50/60mins but hard to make changes after a win like that

edit. AWJ was a lot better today, but still not sure Lawes wouldnt be better again


Apart from better darts and a superior carrying game.
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by MrDominator »

I'm not convinced by George at all.

I've never seen anything from him that remotely approaches what Best is capable of, especially at the breakdown. Nor is his scrummaging in Best's class either.
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by earl the beaver »

henry wrote:
harry 22 wrote:id stick best on the bench. dont think Owens brings much to the party. would consider Henderson on the bench over Stander

the win glosses over what was a very sloppy first 50/60mins but hard to make changes after a win like that

edit. AWJ was a lot better today, but still not sure Lawes wouldnt be better again


Apart from better darts and a superior carrying game.

His carrying was great a few years back, it isn't any more.

And didn't he shit the bed when he came on last week?
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by harry 22 »

henry wrote:
harry 22 wrote:id stick best on the bench. dont think Owens brings much to the party. would consider Henderson on the bench over Stander

the win glosses over what was a very sloppy first 50/60mins but hard to make changes after a win like that

edit. AWJ was a lot better today, but still not sure Lawes wouldnt be better again


Apart from better darts and a superior carrying game.



yeh he's marginally better darts than best and is marginally a better carrier, but not a carrier that would carry much threat to the AB's nor would be used too often

i feel next week will be brutal, as Gatland alluded to the return match against Ireland in November. Best is man you want in that scenario as the game will be won and lost at the coalface
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henry
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by henry »

harry 22 wrote:
henry wrote:
harry 22 wrote:id stick best on the bench. dont think Owens brings much to the party. would consider Henderson on the bench over Stander

the win glosses over what was a very sloppy first 50/60mins but hard to make changes after a win like that

edit. AWJ was a lot better today, but still not sure Lawes wouldnt be better again


Apart from better darts and a superior carrying game.



yeh he's marginally better darts than best and is marginally a better carrier, but not a carrier that would carry much threat to the AB's nor would be used too often

i feel next week will be brutal, as Gatland alluded to the return match against Ireland in November. Best is man you want in that scenario as the game will be won and lost at the coalface


There's no way I want Rory Best coming on with 10-15 remaining if we need to win an attacking or defensive lineout. No way. Nadda. Nowt. Zip. He's already demonstrated his nerves under pressure this tour. Don't get me wrong, he is immense over the ball. Head and shoulders above anyone else in that position. But he's prone to shitting the bed setpiece wise. It's not a risk I'd take and, I fancy, not one Gatland will take.
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earl the beaver
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by earl the beaver »

henry wrote:
harry 22 wrote:
henry wrote:
harry 22 wrote:id stick best on the bench. dont think Owens brings much to the party. would consider Henderson on the bench over Stander

the win glosses over what was a very sloppy first 50/60mins but hard to make changes after a win like that

edit. AWJ was a lot better today, but still not sure Lawes wouldnt be better again


Apart from better darts and a superior carrying game.



yeh he's marginally better darts than best and is marginally a better carrier, but not a carrier that would carry much threat to the AB's nor would be used too often

i feel next week will be brutal, as Gatland alluded to the return match against Ireland in November. Best is man you want in that scenario as the game will be won and lost at the coalface


There's no way I want Rory Best coming on with 10-15 remaining if we need to win an attacking or defensive lineout. No way. Nadda. Nowt. Zip. He's already demonstrated his nerves under pressure this tour. Don't get me wrong, he is immense over the ball. Head and shoulders above anyone else in that position. But he's prone to shitting the bed setpiece wise. It's not a risk I'd take and, I fancy, not one Gatland will take.

Lineout is overplayed, he's captained Ireland to wins over Aus, NZ, SA and England in the past year with a practically 100% lineout.

He was getting shit for a missed lineout earlier in the tour where his throw was fine but no one jumped because the whole thing malfunctioned, people have decided he's shit out of touch without actually watching him.
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JM2K6
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by JM2K6 »

Counterpoint: Virtually every lineout he threw in his last match hit the jumpers in the midriff.
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henry
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by henry »

His throw in that game was not fine. It was a hurried and panicked piece of idiocy. For a guy of his experience, it was unforgivable.


That said, if he starts or goes to the bench, I hope I'm wrong and I hope he proves me wrong.

Until then, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Owens didn't cover himself in glory today so maybe Gatland will reconsider having on the bench. :lol:
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CM11
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by CM11 »

Best's throwing is a bit loopy these days.

That said, Owens had his problems too (as did George today).

But he's not an impact sub so he either starts or isn't in the 23. And he ain't starting (although after 80 today, there's an argument to bench George and bring him on for impact).
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by ZW03 »

Would bring Lawes or Hendo in instead of AWJ but thats about it. AWJ was much better today but I'd go withv youth there.Possibly put O'Mahony on the bench and maybe an extra forward like haskell or stander on bench. Maybe McGrath to start.

Personally would have best over Owens too.

To be honest these are all minor things really. Talking about players who are of very similar standard to the ones theyre replacing.

The main thing is he goes with Sexton/Farrell. Sexton is better at getting the backline going and having farrell there will cut out some of the errors he makes for ireland taking too much on himself.

Farrell equally seems to play better when relieved of chief playmaker duties.
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by elcamino »

All Blacks to stop box kicking 85% of their ball
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Botha Boy »

Replace AWJ with Lawes for fitness reasons. The next match will be about winning the gain line so I am a bit worried if Lawes and Itoje don't front up. Where is Launchbury when you need him?

Henderson to bench as 2nd and back row cover.

McGrath to start with Brainfart Vunipola to bench. Marler is another powder keg, so he is a similar risk.

Te'o to stay. He showed his potential in attack and defence in the first test. He is just not a good enough distributor, but I can live with him coming off the bench.

Daly has not been in the best of form but I still think his skill set of pace and long kicking is required.

Best is an extra man in the ruck to tilt the game in our favour. But he has a history of not being able to throw in accurately under pressure throughout his career. I think George is growing in confidence so he stays.

I think Warburton and Stander stay in the match 23. POM is a play to disrupte their line out, but I think physicality in the collision zone with Kaino back will be telling. Henderson should be an option as an impact sub.
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by WelshmanJim »

Weakening the scrum by dropping AWJ for Lawes with Poite reffing. Can't see that going wrong.
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Botha Boy »

WelshmanJim wrote:Weakening the scrum by dropping AWJ for Lawes with Poite reffing. Can't see that going wrong.
But what will the scrum do after 50 min ? ... AWJ hasn't got the puff any more ...
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Brian9848 »

Assuming no citings (e.g.. Vunipola or SOB), Gatland is unlikely to make unforced changes to his tight 5 given how they fronted up for him today. It's tough on Lawes and Henderson who have had very good tours but no changes. Vunipola probably deserves to be dropped for stupidity but can see him being retained. Similarly for the back row, who were excellent today. While Gatland may be tempted to pick a Te'O to run down an inexperienced 12 channel, he'll probably go with what scored two come from behind tries under pressure.

Cane was immense given Kaino's absence but dont see any changes upfront. Cannot see Hansen flirting with newcomers in such a massive test like Jordi Barrett given the absence of leaders and decision makers like Ben Smith and Crotty in the backfield. If Naholo fails his return to play protocols, there will be new combinations across the park that will stymie AB attacking play. Laumape to be retained but who'd come in at 14 - Savea? Would Dagg switch back there with MacKenzie coming in at 15? ABs now vulnerable.
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by henry »

Wouldn't be surprised to see Sexton jettisoned from the starting XV and Teo in. Think the coaches might be alarmed at how much easy yardage the Kiwis made down the 10-12 channel. Even when they were down to 14 men.

Apart from that, don't think we'll see many changes. Think he'll persevere with Vunipola - he won't have another shocker like that. Sinckler too - his impact is too great for him to be sanctioned. Don't think Dirttracker Captain Best will be promoted into the 23. I'd be tempted to put Lawes or Henderson in instead of AWJ but anticipate they will be pleased with his performance today and the impact that Lawes brought off the bench. Backrow was much better today so POM has no hope. IMO. They'll stick with Murray and the back three I think.
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Jake
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Jake »

Henry

I just rewatched the match and McGrath really did have a cameo.

He's earned the shirt IMO. His work defending the NZ carrier was superb.
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henry
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by henry »

Jake wrote:Henry

I just rewatched the match and McGrath really did have a cameo.

He's earned the shirt IMO. His work defending the NZ carrier was superb.
Wouldn't be enraged by that selection. Vunipola might be handier off the bench too. Particularly if he's stewed for 50 minutes.
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Jake
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Jake »

henry wrote:
Jake wrote:Henry

I just rewatched the match and McGrath really did have a cameo.

He's earned the shirt IMO. His work defending the NZ carrier was superb.
Wouldn't be enraged by that selection. Vunipola might be handier off the bench too. Particularly if he's stewed for 50 minutes.


Agreed.
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Tim. »

I'd think about Vunipola for McGrath. Not for any discipline reason as MV is quality and not prone to a meltdown like those few minutes today. But the scrum was a bit wobbly before going against 7 and he'd cause havoc from the bench. Plus McGrath is a good player himself and fresh legs might be useful. It's a good problem to have.

Lions still disappointing over the ball. Best for George? Again harsh on George who's been great. But I think the Lions' only advantage is in depth. It might worth considering.

I don't think Teo brings much bench value (harsh again), I'd swap him for JJ's strike running.
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Re: 3rd Test Changes for both sides?

Post by Tim. »

Jake wrote:Henry

I just rewatched the match and McGrath really did have a cameo.

He's earned the shirt IMO. His work defending the NZ carrier was superb.
Apols. Was typing mine when you wrote similar thoughts.
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