Combined SOB Citing Thread

henry · Post by **henry** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:23 pm

Potential citing?

I'm hearing grumblings.

Toro · Post by **Toro** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:25 pm

Of all the 'foul play' in the game, it was the only one that caused an injury, and a serious one.

But I hope he's available next week. Clumsy at worst, but knocked him out cold.

Womack · Post by **Womack** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:25 pm

henry wrote: I'm hearing grumblings.

Not unusual after what our Irish cousins are pleased to call a rake of Guinnesses

armchair pundit · Post by **armchair pundit** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:27 pm

lose seanie and we might as well go home now.

MrDominator · Post by **MrDominator** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:31 pm

It was reckless at the very least. SOB couldn't complain if he got a week off.

Hopefully not, though, because it would be a pity to see him miss such a key test.

Same goes for SBW though. Everyone is assuming he'll get a ban, but surely the red card was punishment enough?

henry · Post by **henry** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:31 pm

Womack wrote:
henry wrote: I'm hearing grumblings.
Not unusual after what our Irish cousins are pleased to call a rake of Guinnesses

I was going to say down under too.

Gavin Duffy · Post by **Gavin Duffy** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:32 pm

Womack wrote:
henry wrote: I'm hearing grumblings.
Not unusual after what our Irish cousins are pleased to call a rake of Guinnesses

Ban this plum!

Botha Boy · Post by **Botha Boy** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:34 pm

henry wrote:Potential citing?

I'm hearing grumblings.

One player is banned for not using his arms in the tackle, another is possibly to be banned for using his arms to try and legitimately gain the ball in contact ...

If there is evidence of intent, can it be brought forward, as I would not defend SOB if it can be shown that he intended to injure Naholo ? ...

Gavin Duffy · Post by **Gavin Duffy** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:35 pm

Botha Boy wrote:
henry wrote:Potential citing?

I'm hearing grumblings.
One player is banned for not using his arms in the tackle, another is possibly to be banned for using his arms to try and legitimately gain the ball in contact ...

If there is evidence of intent, can it be brought forward, as I would not defence SOB if it can be shown that he intended to injure Naholo ? ...

Wha?

Flametop · Post by **Flametop** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:36 pm

You know just how much the Kiwis rate SOB when they start rediculous shit like this.

J Man · Post by **J Man** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:36 pm

MrDominator wrote:It was reckless at the very least. SOB couldn't complain if he got a week off.

Hopefully not, though, because it would be a pity to see him miss such a key test.

Same goes for SBW though. Everyone is assuming he'll get a ban, but surely the red card was punishment enough?

Oddly sensible post. Usually MrDominator DOMINATES!!!

JM2K6 · Post by **JM2K6** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:37 pm

Intent is irrelevant and he may well get banned given the outcome. Obviously looks like he was going in for a cleanout but got it wrong and concussed someone, so repercussions wouldn't be totally out of the question. It wouldn't be a stain on his character or anything, but it would seriously damage the Lions' thin hopes.

J Man wrote:
MrDominator wrote:It was reckless at the very least. SOB couldn't complain if he got a week off.

Hopefully not, though, because it would be a pity to see him miss such a key test.

Same goes for SBW though. Everyone is assuming he'll get a ban, but surely the red card was punishment enough?
Oddly sensible post. Usually MrDominator DOMINATES!!!

SBW's shoulder charge is definitely ban-worthy.

J Man · Post by **J Man** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:38 pm

Botha Boy wrote:
If there is evidence of intent, can it be brought forward, as I would not defence SOB if it can be shown that he intended to injure Naholo ? ...

Intent doesn't matter- it's outcome based. He contacted with the head and knocked the guy out.

Womack · Post by **Womack** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:39 pm

Gavin Duffy wrote:
Womack wrote:
henry wrote: I'm hearing grumblings.
Not unusual after what our Irish cousins are pleased to call a rake of Guinnesses
Ban this plum!

Mere cabal bants

booji boy · Post by **booji boy** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:39 pm

MrDominator wrote:It was reckless at the very least. SOB couldn't complain if he got a week off.

Hopefully not, though, because it would be a pity to see him miss such a key test.

Same goes for SBW though. Everyone is assuming he'll get a ban, but surely the red card was punishment enough?

I think SBW is gone for the series, deservedly so too the brainless plum. Disappointing though as he played well in the 1st test and I was looking forward to seeing him in combo with ALB in the second and third tests. Disappointing but only himself to blame.

Gavin Duffy · Post by **Gavin Duffy** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:40 pm

Womack wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:
Womack wrote:
henry wrote: I'm hearing grumblings.
Not unusual after what our Irish cousins are pleased to call a rake of Guinnesses
Ban this plum!
Mere cabal bants

Oppressor!

YOYO · Post by **YOYO** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:40 pm

Do we have video footage? Would like to see what the issue is.

Tschussie · Post by **Tschussie** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:40 pm

No gifs?

SamShark · Post by **SamShark** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:41 pm

Footage looks inconclusive to me

MrDominator · Post by **MrDominator** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:43 pm

booji boy wrote:
MrDominator wrote:It was reckless at the very least. SOB couldn't complain if he got a week off.

Hopefully not, though, because it would be a pity to see him miss such a key test.

Same goes for SBW though. Everyone is assuming he'll get a ban, but surely the red card was punishment enough?
I think SBW is gone for the series, deservedly so too the brainless plum. Disappointing though as he played well in the 1st test and I was looking forward to seeing him in combo with ALB in the second and third tests. Disappointing but only himself to blame.

Almost certainly so - and given the way the system works, understandably so.

It would be nice to see a bit more nuance and appreciation of context in the system though. SBW's red basically cost his team a test against the Lions, quite literally the first such loss in 24 years. I imagine he'd quite happily take an eight game Super Rugby ban over the fate that befell him last night.

Punishing him again with a further ban just seems a bit OTT.

YOYO · Post by **YOYO** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:46 pm

Can someone find it in here? What minute is it? I'll make a gif.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bB3cDZurHlM

Or correct match vid https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... 2e_okRD2dg

JM2K6 · Post by **JM2K6** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:47 pm

YOYO wrote:Can someone find it in here? What minute is it? I'll make a gif.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bB3cDZurHlM

I don't think it happened during the press conference

armchair pundit · Post by **armchair pundit** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:48 pm

JM2K6 wrote:
YOYO wrote:Can someone find it in here? What minute is it? I'll make a gif.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bB3cDZurHlM
I don't think it happened during the press conference

YOYO · Post by **YOYO** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:48 pm

JM2K6 wrote:
YOYO wrote:Can someone find it in here? What minute is it? I'll make a gif.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bB3cDZurHlM
I don't think it happened during the press conference

I added the correct link above.

Botha Boy · Post by **Botha Boy** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:51 pm

J Man wrote:
Botha Boy wrote:
If there is evidence of intent, can it be brought forward, as I would not defence SOB if it can be shown that he intended to injure Naholo ? ...
Intent doesn't matter- it's outcome based. He contacted with the head and knocked the guy out.

Lots of people are injured in standard operations in rugby - it does not mean the other person gets a ban. And legally the injured person could be predisposed to the injury based on their history or a prior impact.

So just because I hurt you in a tackle (outcome), does not mean that I have a case to answer ...

If he deliberately swung high then there might be a case (given the current highly sensitive regulations), but he is clearly swinging low to access the ball without malice.

JM2K6 · Post by **JM2K6** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:57 pm

Botha Boy wrote:
J Man wrote:
Botha Boy wrote:
If there is evidence of intent, can it be brought forward, as I would not defence SOB if it can be shown that he intended to injure Naholo ? ...
Intent doesn't matter- it's outcome based. He contacted with the head and knocked the guy out.
Lots of people are injured in standard operations in rugby - it does not mean the other person gets a ban. And legally the injured person could be predisposed to the injury based on their history or a prior impact.

So just because I hurt you in a tackle (outcome), does not mean that I have a case to answer ...

If he deliberately swung high then there might be a case (given the current highly sensitive regulations), but he is clearly swinging low to access the ball without malice.

No. If you hurt him in a tackle where you made contact with the head, you have a case to answer. Because you can hurt someone "legally", but hitting someone in the head is not legal and the duty of care is on you to not hit people in the head.

Malice is irrelevant.

Fat Old Git · Post by **Fat Old Git** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:07 am

Indeed. Most incidents of foul play are just reckless or clumsy with it being very unlikely that the player involved intended to cause an injury. But they still often result in a penalty, card and / or a ban.

nabanoba · Post by **nabanoba** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:07 am

Completely pointless and irrelevant point.

But, if SOB did that anywhere other than at the elite level of rugby it would be considered part and parcel of the game. The sport the pro's play is moving further and further away from what us lesser talented folk play all the time.

eugenius · Post by **eugenius** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:08 am

JM2K6 · Post by **JM2K6** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:12 am

nabanoba wrote:Completely pointless and irrelevant point.

But, if SOB did that anywhere other than at the elite level of rugby it would be considered part and parcel of the game. The sport the pro's play is moving further and further away from what us lesser talented folk play all the time.

Because we're starting to understand the long term effects of this stuff.

Fat Old Git · Post by **Fat Old Git** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:14 am

JM2K6 wrote:
nabanoba wrote:Completely pointless and irrelevant point.

But, if SOB did that anywhere other than at the elite level of rugby it would be considered part and parcel of the game. The sport the pro's play is moving further and further away from what us lesser talented folk play all the time.
Because we're starting to understand the long term effects of this stuff.

Yep. Turns out drinking 10 jugs of beer in the club rooms after each game wasn't the problem.

nabanoba · Post by **nabanoba** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:16 am

JM2K6 wrote:
nabanoba wrote:Completely pointless and irrelevant point.

But, if SOB did that anywhere other than at the elite level of rugby it would be considered part and parcel of the game. The sport the pro's play is moving further and further away from what us lesser talented folk play all the time.
Because we're starting to understand the long term effects of this stuff.

True that. But then we all choose to get on a pitch week in, week out and put ourselves on the line. There has to also be an acceptance that shit goes down when you go full contact, sometimes in ways we don't want or expect.

comets · Post by **comets** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:17 am

Pretty hard to knock out a Fijian in a game and if Naholo was knocked out, it had to be serious, but tbf to Naholo, he took a lot of beating in that game, even one from SBW after that shoulder charge on Watson which had 2 victims, Ioane probably came off the game and went straight home cause there was no need for him to shower afterwards

JM2K6 · Post by **JM2K6** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:18 am

nabanoba wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
nabanoba wrote:Completely pointless and irrelevant point.

But, if SOB did that anywhere other than at the elite level of rugby it would be considered part and parcel of the game. The sport the pro's play is moving further and further away from what us lesser talented folk play all the time.
Because we're starting to understand the long term effects of this stuff.
True that. But then we all choose to get on a pitch week in, week out and put ourselves on the line. There has to also be an acceptance that shit goes down when you go full contact, sometimes in ways we don't want or expect.

Right, but early onset dementia, depression, suicide et al are far beyond what's reasonably to expect from "shit goes down". Injuries yes, ruining your life from what is "part and parcel of the game" no.

g'night

Tehui · Post by **Tehui** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:21 am

YOYO wrote: I'll make a gif.

How do you do that?

YOYO · Post by **YOYO** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:24 am

Tehui wrote:
YOYO wrote: I'll make a gif.
How do you do that?

It's my dirty secret. I can even do it on my phone like in a jiffy.

Tehui · Post by **Tehui** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:25 am

Fat Old Git wrote:Indeed. Most incidents of foul play are just reckless or clumsy with it being very unlikely that the player involved intended to cause an injury. But they still often result in a penalty, card and / or a ban.

Yep. The Hurricanes halfback received a YC against the Lions for effectively the same action.

The thing SOB might have trouble with, is that Naholo's head wasn't a moving target. His head was in the same position for while, and the SOB came in with the swinging arm and knocked his brains for 6.

YOYO · Post by **YOYO** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:28 am

Right Tehui. I'll share with you one my greatest feats.

nabanoba · Post by **nabanoba** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:28 am

JM2K6 wrote:
nabanoba wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
nabanoba wrote:Completely pointless and irrelevant point.

But, if SOB did that anywhere other than at the elite level of rugby it would be considered part and parcel of the game. The sport the pro's play is moving further and further away from what us lesser talented folk play all the time.
Because we're starting to understand the long term effects of this stuff.
True that. But then we all choose to get on a pitch week in, week out and put ourselves on the line. There has to also be an acceptance that shit goes down when you go full contact, sometimes in ways we don't want or expect.
Right, but early onset dementia, depression, suicide et al are far beyond what's reasonably to expect from "shit goes down". Injuries yes, ruining your life from what is "part and parcel of the game" no.

g'night

It is part and parcel of the game though. There is absolutely no way to avoid it with a full contact sport.

Obviously no one wants to see someone's mental health being damaged, but I go into each game in full knowledge that it's not going to do me any favours in later life. Of course we need to do everything possible to ensure that foul play and mal-intent are severely punished, but if that isn't the case I don't believe the punishment should equal the injury.

Clog50Percent · Post by **Clog50Percent** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:30 am

I fukn hope so no place for that thuggery bullshit by the violent Irish.