Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

As I said earlier, France not winning the technical report was a joke and they clearly can host the all around best world cup in terms of finances, attendance & facilities.

I'm disappointed Ireland didn't get it in the fact that it would have been good fun, but glad in some ways as our ridiculous stadium policy needs to change. Hopefully this forces it. We have no chance until 2031 now anyway.

For World Rugby, they got most of what they wanted here.
Last edited by Blackrock Bullet on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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henry
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by henry »

There's a great deal of unedifying wailing going on here and lashing out at all comers. A little dignity and resolve wouldn't go amiss.
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Stu Wilsons gloves
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Stu Wilsons gloves »

Bowens wrote:The correct decision for the sport. Well done.
I agree, a rugby world cup in France, what's not to like. I feel for the Irish, but Ireland v France as a destination? Not even close.
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slick
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by slick »

seems the same still goes for some of the scots too
What did we do to deserve that?
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sorCrer
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by sorCrer »

clydecloggie wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
That's a good point. I really wanted Ireland to win but now that France won it, I hope it will help rugby's growth on the continent. Would love to see strong teams from Germany, Netherlands, Spain, etc.
Will not happen.
Dutch Rugby Union has a stated aim of qualifying for RWC2023. I personally think that's 4 years early but expect them to qualify in 2027. Great youth set up with rugby skills academies linked to high schools set up in key areas, player numbers increasing exponentially over the last few years, and a physique made for rugby. Also plenty of SA / NZ / Aus players with a Dutch granny around - once the team gets close to qualifying I expect quite a few e-mails will be sent to Rugby Nederland HQ from those places enquiring about eligibility.
They're not even in the Top 30. FFS.
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rfurlong
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by rfurlong »

jolindien wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
No.6 wrote:
rfurlong wrote: The RWC goes to a country who don't give a fook about fan experience

You should go to France and watch or even play rugby there. They love it, very passionate fans.
I was at the final in 2007 you dumb cvnt ...... worst experience ever
mate, ireland was gone since the pool stage... you should have known your team wasn't playing in that game.
a rugby world cup final was on my bucket list

as was finding a helpful Parisien

I'll have to reconcile myself to the fact that my list will forever remain incomplete
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rfurlong
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by rfurlong »

slick wrote:
seems the same still goes for some of the scots too
What did we do to deserve that?
you voted for France you rabble :x
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by TranceNRG »

Stu Wilsons gloves wrote:
Bowens wrote:The correct decision for the sport. Well done.
I agree, a rugby world cup in France, what's not to like. I feel for the Irish, but Ireland v France as a destination? Not even close.
Weather might be shit in Ireland but it's a great country to visit. I've been there about 10 times and seen quite a lot of the country and still love going there.
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Miguel Indurain
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Miguel Indurain »

France (Paris) securing 2024 Olympics could have been a factor too perhaps.
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croyals
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by croyals »

A lot of talk on here and twitter about how this decision limits potential hosts but let's look at how its gone in the professional era:

1999 - Wales (romance)
2003 - Australia (money)
2007 - France (money)
2011 - NZ (romance)
2015 - England (money)
2019 - Japan (romance)
2023 - France (money)

Romance being used as a cover all for any WC that wasn't/isn't a guaranteed money spinner. So really we're not diverging at all from the trend, and there's space in 2027 for a more speculative bid.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

croyals wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
croyals wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
croyals wrote:In all the talk of rejuvenating SA rugby, it shouldn't be forgotten that a strong France is the way into cracking much of continental Europe.

Are you basing this on anything?

The writings on the Duke of Marlborough or the like?
The fact that they are the only one of the 6N to show any interest in rugby on the continent? That they have played Top 14 games in Spain? That it dispels the image of rugby as a sport for the Anglosphere?

Really? You don't think bringing Italy into the Celtic League was a big deal?
No its been a disaster.

.
Well it is still unfair to say that it's "nothing". It was borne out of economic necessity, but when you go down to the roots of most decisions, that's what they are. France don't just do things for charitable reasons.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by clydecloggie »

sorCrer wrote:
clydecloggie wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
That's a good point. I really wanted Ireland to win but now that France won it, I hope it will help rugby's growth on the continent. Would love to see strong teams from Germany, Netherlands, Spain, etc.
Will not happen.
Dutch Rugby Union has a stated aim of qualifying for RWC2023. I personally think that's 4 years early but expect them to qualify in 2027. Great youth set up with rugby skills academies linked to high schools set up in key areas, player numbers increasing exponentially over the last few years, and a physique made for rugby. Also plenty of SA / NZ / Aus players with a Dutch granny around - once the team gets close to qualifying I expect quite a few e-mails will be sent to Rugby Nederland HQ from those places enquiring about eligibility.
They're not even in the Top 30. FFS.
28th actually.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by eldanielfire »

Andalu wrote:Spain and Poland would be better bets than Germany.
Portugal even more so.

There is a bit of a hard-on for Germany to join the elite rugby circles. Probably because of the economy size and the assumption that they would be good at it. I'm not so sure. Poland surely has no interest in Rugby. I've heard on many occasions The Neatherlands is a place of rugby growth. Which would match their natural tendency to actually show interest in British sports (they are one of the best teams in Cricket outside of the usual elite, darts) and of course produce the biggest, well tallest, people in Europe. Besides them I hear good things in Belgium and Chile but it's all chat.
Last edited by eldanielfire on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by TranceNRG »

sorCrer wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
TranceNRG wrote: That's a good point. I really wanted Ireland to win but now that France won it, I hope it will help rugby's growth on the continent. Would love to see strong teams from Germany, Netherlands, Spain, etc.
Will not happen.
It won't happen in a few years but it could spark their interest.
German national rugby has been around since 1927. It will not spark fudge-all.
:? Just because there's a national rugby team doesn't mean the general population follow them or have an interest in rugby. Having a close neighbor host a big tournament could potentially generate some buzz in these countries.
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theo
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by theo »

Always nice to get a train to the RWC also. Makes me feel all environmentally friendly.
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sewa
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by sewa »

sorCrer wrote:
They're not even in the Top 30. FFS.
https://www.worldrugby.org/news/294082

That's not true (any more), they made a bit of a jump this weekend by beating Moldova for the first time ever
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Kid A »

rfurlong wrote:
lookit, we all understand and acknowledge that some of the welsh need to hide behind the apron strings of their bigger neighbours, but lots of the free world would have liked to see the tournament go to a strong, confident, independent, smaller nation.
Right. That's why it didn't go to Ireland. Ireland as per usual, didn't acknowledge their superiority complex and wen't for a single, not joint bid. You don't have the minerals lads.
I know thats hard for you to comprehend, as you and many of your country( :lol: )men suffer from Stockholm syndrome and are in thrall to your english paymasters (seems the same still goes for some of the scots too), but sometimes pushing back against the status quo and showing some ambition and vision, can be a good move

you should try it ..... you'll loathe yourself much less afterwards.
The irony.

Wales has hosted a World Cup Final. I went to it. But yes we are total subservient gimps. :lol:
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Stu Wilsons gloves »

TranceNRG wrote:
Stu Wilsons gloves wrote:
Bowens wrote:The correct decision for the sport. Well done.
I agree, a rugby world cup in France, what's not to like. I feel for the Irish, but Ireland v France as a destination? Not even close.
Weather might be shit in Ireland but it's a great country to visit. I've been there about 10 times and seen quite a lot of the country and still love going there.
Yeah it is, but France is the no.1 tourist destination in the world for a reason. Three great options, but France as a host has a lot to offer.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by PornDog »

croyals wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
croyals wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
croyals wrote:In all the talk of rejuvenating SA rugby, it shouldn't be forgotten that a strong France is the way into cracking much of continental Europe.

Are you basing this on anything?

The writings on the Duke of Marlborough or the like?
The fact that they are the only one of the 6N to show any interest in rugby on the continent? That they have played Top 14 games in Spain? That it dispels the image of rugby as a sport for the Anglosphere?

Really? You don't think bringing Italy into the Celtic League was a big deal?
No its been a disaster.
rfurlong wrote: The achievement of a "strong France" via granting them the RWC, for the purposes of "cracking continental Europe" is possibly the most spivtastic thing I've ever heard :lol:

The same T14 sides you laud for playing games in Spain, are setting up academies in the Pacific ffs. They (and their owners) are the very reason why France's international side is such a fvcking mess today.

France have been rewarded for throwing money at the bid (as well as guaranteeing bigger financial returns to WR and sponsors). They have won, not because they represent an opportunity to grow the game as per your analysis. They have won because they are spivs.
Listen I fully respect the idea that we should host the tournament where it will have the best atmosphere for the people that attend (Ireland), and that we should keep rugby as essentially a closed club for the nations that already play, its great fun.

But surely you can also understand why WR has ambitions to get the sport going on a more popular footing in Spain/Germany/Netherlands/Portugal? I haven't lauded the Top 14 and far from it, but France is the best route to expanding Spanish rugby, for example.

If we were still an amateur game then an Irish WC would be a no brainer. But that's not what we have and so we have a money oriented business. That is just a fact, however much we can try and deny it.
Croyals - what great gains in promoting the game across the continent were made as a result of the 2007 RWC? Why do you expect 2023 will be any different?

It's an utter nonsense to suggest that France being awarded the RWC is somehow better for growing the game. I wouldn't argue either of the other bids on that ground either, despite our diaspora angle which also seemed like a steaming pile!
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by rfurlong »

Stu Wilsons gloves wrote:
Bowens wrote:The correct decision for the sport. Well done.
I agree, a rugby world cup in France, what's not to like. I feel for the Irish, but Ireland v France as a destination? Not even close.
its a rugby world cup not a sightseeing tour ffs

yes France will be a great holiday destination, but the locals wont have a clue/wont give a fook that the tournament is even on

you can visit France anytime, you can only go to a world cup every 4 years
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by eldanielfire »

sewa wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
They're not even in the Top 30. FFS.
https://www.worldrugby.org/news/294082

That's not true (any more), they made a bit of a jump this weekend by beating Moldova for the first time ever

Based on both sexes then the Netherlands are the local country making the most inroads into Rugby.
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sorCrer
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by sorCrer »

clydecloggie wrote: 28th actually.

Ah yes I see. My brother has move there from SA 2 years ago and wanted his kids to play. Says there is zero interest in the game.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Nolanator »

croyals wrote:there's space in 2027 for a more speculative bid.
Outside of Europe. Argentina would be the obvious one.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by kiap »

eldanielfire wrote:
Andalu wrote:Spain and Poland would be better bets than Germany.
Portugal even more so.

There is a bit of a hard-on for Germany to join the elite rugby circles. Probably because of the economy size and the assumption that they would be good at it. I'm not so sure. Poland surely has no interest in Rugby. I've heard on many occasions The Neatherlands is a place of rugby growth. Which would match their natural tendency to actually show interest in British sports (they are one of the best teams in Cricket outside of the usual elite, darts) and of course produce the biggest, well tallest, people in Europe. Besides them I hear good things in Belgium and Chile but it's all chat.
Poland does.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Bullettyme »

It is arguable that the IRFU reaction to that stage result certainly didn't help matters too, and helped seal the fate of our unsuccessful 2023 bid.
I think you can argue that. And I'd argue that political attacks from our leader didn't help either.

Although when push comes to shove it was our stadiums that were poor, and one of our host towns, and we had no experience to start with, we had a good vision but that wasn't necessarily reflected in stuff like our fan engagement, and ultimately we were going up against two world class bids from nations with a lot of experience, with the requisite stadiums. With Japan looking like a disaster France probably will make the money.

The technical report process was kind of shown up to be a joke though; "here's the report - we spent loads of money on it - but vote however you feel like".
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by croyals »

Blackrock Bullet wrote:
Well it is still unfair to say that it's "nothing". It was borne out of economic necessity, but when you go down to the roots of most decisions, that's what they are. France don't just do things for charitable reasons.
Entirely fair post. I don't think I've suggested at any point here that French rugby has an altruistic bone in its body, but growing rugby on the continent is certainly in their own interests, which is why it may well happen.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Clouseau »

Would have been delighted if Ireland had got it, could have been great fun I'm sure, and better beer.

But hey it's cool. If it tends to go pretty unnoticed in Paris and the Stade de France is unfortunately shit, the smaller cities will great hosts.
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rfurlong
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by rfurlong »

croyals wrote:A lot of talk on here and twitter about how this decision limits potential hosts but let's look at how its gone in the professional era:

1999 - Wales (romance)
2003 - Australia (money)
2007 - France (money)
2011 - NZ (romance)
2015 - England (money)
2019 - Japan (romance)
2023 - France (money)

Romance being used as a cover all for any WC that wasn't/isn't a guaranteed money spinner. So really we're not diverging at all from the trend, and there's space in 2027 for a more speculative bid.
you do know all those 'romantic' examples in the past are, well ...... in the past?

the new criteria ensures that they will never happen again.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by nardol »

Zakar wrote:
croyals wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
croyals wrote:In all the talk of rejuvenating SA rugby, it shouldn't be forgotten that a strong France is the way into cracking much of continental Europe.

Are you basing this on anything?

The writings on the Duke of Marlborough or the like?
The fact that they are the only one of the 6N to show any interest in rugby on the continent? That they have played Top 14 games in Spain? That it dispels the image of rugby as a sport for the Anglosphere?
This. European continental rugby basically only exists thanks to the froggies. Not sure it's an argument for them getting the world cup, but it's true.
French rugby only exists because the south of France got all cuddly with the Nazis
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Bowens »

kiap wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Andalu wrote:Spain and Poland would be better bets than Germany.
Portugal even more so.

There is a bit of a hard-on for Germany to join the elite rugby circles. Probably because of the economy size and the assumption that they would be good at it. I'm not so sure. Poland surely has no interest in Rugby. I've heard on many occasions The Neatherlands is a place of rugby growth. Which would match their natural tendency to actually show interest in British sports (they are one of the best teams in Cricket outside of the usual elite, darts) and of course produce the biggest, well tallest, people in Europe. Besides them I hear good things in Belgium and Chile but it's all chat.
Poland does.
Tri-Cities area right.

Poland could actually field a decent team with all of their French diaspora players. Maybe they will make a run at 2023, who knows.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by eldanielfire »

rfurlong wrote:
Stu Wilsons gloves wrote:
Bowens wrote:The correct decision for the sport. Well done.
I agree, a rugby world cup in France, what's not to like. I feel for the Irish, but Ireland v France as a destination? Not even close.
its a rugby world cup not a sightseeing tour ffs

yes France will be a great holiday destination, but the locals wont have a clue/wont give a fook that the tournament is even on

you can visit France anytime, you can only go to a world cup every 4 years
Now that is some hyperbole! :lol:
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by The Sun God »

rfurlong wrote:
Miguel Indurain wrote:Given the result for the technical stage, and the fall out resulting from how that result was derived, securing the RWC 2023 for Ireland was always going to be a difficult ask.

Pity.
The next technical report for 2027 will simply lay out the pro's and con's of each bid, with no explicit recommendation

Bill Beaumont looks like a tool now after vociferously defending the report/recommendation

If it emerges that France have promised pool matches to voting councils, there is probably nothing that WR can do?
He is a tool, one of the stupidest men I have ever met.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by croyals »

PornDog wrote:
Croyals - what great gains in promoting the game across the continent were made as a result of the 2007 RWC? Why do you expect 2023 will be any different?

It's an utter nonsense to suggest that France being awarded the RWC is somehow better for growing the game. I wouldn't argue either of the other bids on that ground either, despite our diaspora angle which also seemed like a steaming pile!
We're in different territory than we were in 2007 - rugby is a far more mature professional sport now than it was then, and can afford to be more expansionist. I stand by the fact that I don't believe an Irish WC would grow the game, it would be a cracking party for the already converted though.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by lexpat »

Bullettyme wrote:Did having France in 2007 kick on a few European teams? What a crock.
Did the 2011 or 2015 has done that ? The outcome of 2019 will be interesting also.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by paddyor »

sorCrer wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
TranceNRG wrote: That's a good point. I really wanted Ireland to win but now that France won it, I hope it will help rugby's growth on the continent. Would love to see strong teams from Germany, Netherlands, Spain, etc.
Will not happen.
It won't happen in a few years but it could spark their interest.
German national rugby has been around since 1927. It will not spark fudge-all.
Yep.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by rfurlong »

Nolanator wrote:
croyals wrote:there's space in 2027 for a more speculative bid.
Outside of Europe. Argentina would be the obvious one.
they cant win it cos they've never hosted it before [/World Rugby Technical Review Group]
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Stu Wilsons gloves »

rfurlong wrote:
Stu Wilsons gloves wrote:
Bowens wrote:The correct decision for the sport. Well done.
I agree, a rugby world cup in France, what's not to like. I feel for the Irish, but Ireland v France as a destination? Not even close.
its a rugby world cup not a sightseeing tour ffs

yes France will be a great holiday destination, but the locals wont have a clue/wont give a fook that the tournament is even on

you can visit France anytime, you can only go to a world cup every 4 years
Dude, parts of France have a pretty solid appreciation of the game, 60K turned up to a mid-week game, that's a good crowd, what other rugby country has that big a crowd for a mid-week tour game? Lyon is not a rugby stronghold and they pull those solid numbers. I would have loved a RWC in Ireland, a France RWC again, it is a great option.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Flametop »

So, did Wales shaft SA in the end?
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by Miguel Indurain »

The Sun God wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
Miguel Indurain wrote:Given the result for the technical stage, and the fall out resulting from how that result was derived, securing the RWC 2023 for Ireland was always going to be a difficult ask.

Pity.
The next technical report for 2027 will simply lay out the pro's and con's of each bid, with no explicit recommendation

Bill Beaumont looks like a tool now after vociferously defending the report/recommendation

If it emerges that France have promised pool matches to voting councils, there is probably nothing that WR can do?
He is a tool, one of the stupidest men I have ever met.
I always had the impression that he was a bit punchy. Maybe I'm wrong in that.
He had to retire from playing because of too many bouts of concussion.
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theo
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Bids

Post by theo »

France just had a better bid. They have the stadiums, the infrastructure and the experience.

Sorry Ireland.
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