The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

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grievous
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by grievous »

Poms have been pish actually
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Brumby_in_Vic
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Brumby_in_Vic »

Don't give Bairstow cheap easy runs.
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749a
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by 749a »

grievous wrote:Poms have been pish actually
Sean Marsh's partnerships with Paine and Cummins the difference between the teams
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Marshall Banana »

A wee bit too close to cut. Odd shot.

Well done, Aussie. :thumbup:
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Wallah »

Starc with a five wicket haul :thumbup:

Fine bowling this morning, good hard fought contest in the end by both teams and nice win in the end to Australia.

Australia win by 120 runs.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Thomas »

2-0

Yeah baby!
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Wallah »

Thomas wrote:2-0

Yeah baby!
:thumbup: :thumbdown: :thumbup:
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Clogs
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Clogs »

Clogstradamus does it again. If you boys bet on all of my predictions you would all be retired and very wealthy. You're welcome.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Gazzamonster »

Well that was disappointing. Expecting a thoroughly engaging drive to work......now have to listen to talksport talk about Champions League results. Bah.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by wamberal99 »

Brumby_in_Vic wrote:Have to get Overton now as he batted at four for the England under 19s.

Steve Smith was a leg-spinning all-rounder.



Allegedly.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Mahoney »

Well done Australia. How very England to fight so hard to be only 4 down last night and then lose both almost immediately the next morning.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by grievous »

MrDominator wrote:Hoggard referencing Australia's "much haunted bowling attack"

:lol:
:proud:
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Wallah »

Mahoney wrote:Well done Australia. How very England to fight so hard to be only 4 down last night and then lose both almost immediately the next morning.
Cheers Mahoney, it was real rollercoaster of a match and good to see it go down to Day 5 with both teams in it. Do you think Eng will keep this same team for Perth?

Going forward for Australia need a better team balance and a fifth bowler option for the WACA, so bye to Handscombe and come on in Maxi or Marsh? Rumours are the WACA pitch is quite flat. Australia haven't lost there in my lifetime, since 1978, which is a crazy stat really.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Ellafan »

So Oz team for game #3 -> Handscombe sent to Shield cricket sort out his technique ...

Bancroft
Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Marsh S
Marsh M
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Lyons
Heazlewood
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Wallah »

Ellafan wrote:So Oz team for game #3 -> Handscombe sent to Shield cricket sort out his technique ...

Bancroft
Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Marsh S
Marsh M
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Lyons
Heazlewood
Yep. Handscombe looks like he is battling himself at the moment and needs to find his technique back in the Shield, hope he does.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Homer »

Homer wrote:
Homer wrote:This has all the makings of a classic English building of faint hope - only to be smashed tomorrow.

I can see us losing 1 more wicket tonight and having 150 to chase tomorrow. I can see the English press getting excited abut a memorable win and the Aussie press giving Smith a hard time for not enforcing the follow on.

Tomorrow? All out for the addition of 50 more runs.......
Mark my earlier words! I expect to wake up tomorrow morning to defeat (or imminent defeat).
I would like to claim some sort of soothsaying ability, but the reality (as an England cricket fan) was that it was entirely predictable.

I think this series has got 5-0 written all over it, as Australia look good for 20 wickets in every match and I don't think England can score enough.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Gazzamonster »

Lordy - even though Aussie won Smith is still being asked to justify his decision to bat again.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by rett »

Gazzamonster wrote:Lordy - even though Aussie won Smith is still being asked to justify his decision to bat again.
He should be asked about losing his shit last night. The captain should keep his cool. Always.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Ellafan »

By the way, this the Oz XII for the tour match in perth:

Cricket Australia XI squad: Gabe Bell (Tas), Alex Bevilaqua (WA), Nick Buchanan (Tas), Michael Cormack (SA), Travis Dean (Vic), Jake Doran (Tas), Sam Harper (Vic), Clint Hinchliffe (WA), Jackson Koop (Vic), Josh Philippe (WA), Jake Winter (SA), Mac Wright (Tas).

Josh Philippe to keep wicket, with Jake Doran and Sam Harper picked as batsmen.
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Gazzamonster
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Gazzamonster »

rett wrote:
Gazzamonster wrote:Lordy - even though Aussie won Smith is still being asked to justify his decision to bat again.
He should be asked about losing his shit last night. The captain should keep his cool. Always.
Hardly - all the best Captains have lost their sh*t at one time or another.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Olo »

Bad decision that made it harder to win.

Any chance the powers that be suggested that batting again was a good idea? I didn't think so.
Maxwell in for Handscombe at the Wacca?
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by ovalball »

So often the way in these chases - it all falls in a heap on the last day.

I'm not sure England really have any players they can bring in. The only other batsman is Ballance - who isn't going to improve matters. On the bowling front we have the rookie Leggie, Crane, but he's nowhere near ready for this level. Talk of Mark Wood being drafted in -
but he's hardly played this year and was all over the place last time out - he can be quick but has never been very accurate.

Only other option would be to play Foakes as keeper/batsman and move Bairstow up the order to 4 and Root to 3 - Vince, who just doesn't learn, to be dropped. Foakes is at least as good a bat as Vince/Malan and Stoneman and has a better 1st class average @ 42. Trouble is, he's only had one knock since September - and England already look like an under-cooked team.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Rinkals »

I think that Australia's second innings was vital to England in terms of helping them recover their self-belief.

I cannot imagine the England batsmen lasting too long in those conditions, and it was quite clear that Anderson, Broad and Overton took great heart at the ammount of difficulty they caused the batsmen.

Whether it's enough to give them any sort of belief going into the next test is another matter; I feel that the way that they capitulated losing six wickets for not very many would have undermined that Nevertheless, Smith gave them a chance at redemption.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by ovalball »

Rinkals wrote:I think that Australia's second innings was vital to England in terms of helping them recover their self-belief.

I cannot imagine the England batsmen lasting too long in those conditions, and it was quite clear that Anderson, Broad and Overton took great heart at the ammount of difficulty they caused the batsmen.

Whether it's enough to give them any sort of belief going into the next test is another matter; I feel that the way that they capitulated losing six wickets for not very many would have undermined that Nevertheless, Smith gave them a chance at redemption.
We'll get completely blown away at Perth - I can't see anything other than a 5/0 hammering from here.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Olo »

Its will be tough going at the WACA for the Poms with all three Aussie quicks with their tails in the air.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Ellafan »

Olo wrote:Bad decision that made it harder to win.

Any chance the powers that be suggested that batting again was a good idea? I didn't think so.
Maxwell in for Handscombe at the Wacca?
He's not in the XIII. Mitchell Marsh has been brought in.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Mahoney »

One of the biggest logical errors made by sports fans and commentators is judging decisions based on what actually happened. You have to judge the decision based on the range of probable outcomes at the point the decision was made.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by A5D5E5 »

ovalball wrote:So often the way in these chases - it all falls in a heap on the last day.

I'm not sure England really have any players they can bring in. The only other batsman is Ballance - who isn't going to improve matters. On the bowling front we have the rookie Leggie, Crane, but he's nowhere near ready for this level. Talk of Mark Wood being drafted in -
but he's hardly played this year and was all over the place last time out - he can be quick but has never been very accurate.

Only other option would be to play Foakes as keeper/batsman and move Bairstow up the order to 4 and Root to 3 - Vince, who just doesn't learn, to be dropped. Foakes is at least as good a bat as Vince/Malan and Stoneman and has a better 1st class average @ 42. Trouble is, he's only had one knock since September - and England already look like an under-cooked team.

Deckchairs on the Titanic. Granted that our selectors and the organisers of this tour are cretins who appear to have done everything possible to reduce our chances of winning. However, sometimes you just have to accept that the other side is better. And at the moment, although their batting is nothing special, the Aussie attack is far too good for our "batsmen". I suspect this would be the case in England as well - though it would be closer.

I haven't seen anything to suggest my previous assessment needs altering
A5D5E5 before the first test started wrote:The strength of our lower order batting is they only way we've been able to scramble to a decent score for the last year or so. Our top order going into the Ashes:

Cook (who seems perennially out of form apart from when he makes a century once per series.)
A never ending supply of not quite good enough (or rank hopeless) opening partners.
[Generic county standard batsman with technical weakness who averages in the 30s]
Root (who seems to average 55 with a standard deviation of about 5)
[Generic county standard batsman with technical weakness who averages in the 30s]
[Generic county standard batsman with technical weakness who averages in the 30s]

I really struggle to think of a weaker line up.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Rinkals »

ovalball wrote:
Rinkals wrote:I think that Australia's second innings was vital to England in terms of helping them recover their self-belief.

I cannot imagine the England batsmen lasting too long in those conditions, and it was quite clear that Anderson, Broad and Overton took great heart at the ammount of difficulty they caused the batsmen.

Whether it's enough to give them any sort of belief going into the next test is another matter; I feel that the way that they capitulated losing six wickets for not very many would have undermined that Nevertheless, Smith gave them a chance at redemption.
We'll get completely blown away at Perth - I can't see anything other than a 5/0 hammering from here.
No, I tend to agree.

You need conditions to favour swing or for one or more of the Aussie bowlers to break down. The second being a lot more likely than the first.

I think that your top order is too brittle to offer the kind of platform needed for Root, Ali and Bairstow to assemble the kind of total that Anderson, Broad and your other medium pacers can defend. ;)
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by ovalball »

A5D5E5 wrote:
ovalball wrote:So often the way in these chases - it all falls in a heap on the last day.

I'm not sure England really have any players they can bring in. The only other batsman is Ballance - who isn't going to improve matters. On the bowling front we have the rookie Leggie, Crane, but he's nowhere near ready for this level. Talk of Mark Wood being drafted in -
but he's hardly played this year and was all over the place last time out - he can be quick but has never been very accurate.

Only other option would be to play Foakes as keeper/batsman and move Bairstow up the order to 4 and Root to 3 - Vince, who just doesn't learn, to be dropped. Foakes is at least as good a bat as Vince/Malan and Stoneman and has a better 1st class average @ 42. Trouble is, he's only had one knock since September - and England already look like an under-cooked team.

Deckchairs on the Titanic. Granted that our selectors and the organisers of this tour are cretins who appear to have done everything possible to reduce our chances of winning. However, sometimes you just have to accept that the other side is better. And at the moment, although their batting is nothing special, the Aussie attack is far too good for our "batsmen". I suspect this would be the case in England as well - though it would be closer.

I haven't seen anything to suggest my previous assessment needs altering
A5D5E5 before the first test started wrote:The strength of our lower order batting is they only way we've been able to scramble to a decent score for the last year or so. Our top order going into the Ashes:

Cook (who seems perennially out of form apart from when he makes a century once per series.)
A never ending supply of not quite good enough (or rank hopeless) opening partners.
[Generic county standard batsman with technical weakness who averages in the 30s]
Root (who seems to average 55 with a standard deviation of about 5)
[Generic county standard batsman with technical weakness who averages in the 30s]
[Generic county standard batsman with technical weakness who averages in the 30s]

I really struggle to think of a weaker line up.
We'd be far more competitive in England when our players have been playing regular 1st class cricket and with Stokes in the team. Aussie bats would struggle on a nice damp May test and I don't think Lyon would be anywhere near as effective. We'd still struggle against their pace bowlers but I think we'd have a very good chance of winning a series.

But, by the time they next visit; Jimmy may have retired and Broad will will be getting on. We might have one or two younger guns established in the batting line up - there's a few promising bats around. I'd expect it to be quite a different team.
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Post by Rinkals »

Yeah, Stokes would have made a big difference.

Presumably we can see him playing in the fourth and fifth tests; it's probably a bit late for Perth.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by A5D5E5 »

ovalball wrote: We might have one or two younger guns established in the batting line up - there's a few promising bats around. I'd expect it to be quite a different team.
That assumes that the selectors pick them rather than a 30 year old journeyman with a dodgy technique and an average in the 30s. Frankly I wouldn't trust them to pick a punnet of strawberries at a "pick your own" fruit farm.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by ovalball »

A5D5E5 wrote:
ovalball wrote: We might have one or two younger guns established in the batting line up - there's a few promising bats around. I'd expect it to be quite a different team.
That assumes that the selectors pick them rather than a 30 year old journeyman with a dodgy technique and an average in the 30s. Frankly I wouldn't trust them to pick a punnet of strawberries at a "pick your own" fruit farm.
That's a bit harsh. The young batsmen have yet to make a real case for selection and it would have been foolhardy to throw them into an Ashes Series down under. The preparation and itinerary of these tours is a far bigger issue - we need to be at our absolute best and the organisers ensure we are at our worst.

The selectors have given pretty well everyone, who has put their hand up, a chance.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Brumbie_Steve »

Mahoney wrote:One of the biggest logical errors made by sports fans and commentators is judging decisions based on what actually happened. You have to judge the decision based on the range of probable outcomes at the point the decision was made.
For starters you can be 98% certain that runs are extremely difficult to get in Adelaide on the fifth day. Look at the history of the venue for successful fourth inning run chases at Adelaide Oval. Also look at how small some of the unsuccessful totals were. Moral of the story is don't run up stairs and don't bat fourth in Adelaide.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by ovalball »

Brumbie_Steve wrote:
Mahoney wrote:One of the biggest logical errors made by sports fans and commentators is judging decisions based on what actually happened. You have to judge the decision based on the range of probable outcomes at the point the decision was made.
For starters you can be 98% certain that runs are extremely difficult to get in Adelaide on the fifth day. Look at the history of the venue for successful fourth inning run chases at Adelaide Oval. Also look at how small some of the unsuccessful totals were. Moral of the story is don't run up stairs and don't bat fourth in Adelaide.
I still think he made the right decision. No one knew it would swing about a lot that evening - it didn't any other evening. And, worst case, he knew that, even if Aus were skittled, England would be chasing around 350 and that they'd get nowhere near it batting last. Did he get a bit worried on Day 4 - yes, but not as worried as he'd have been if we'd been 170/4 after he'd enforced the follow on - and his bowlers were starting to tire.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Brumbie_Steve »

ovalball wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
Mahoney wrote:One of the biggest logical errors made by sports fans and commentators is judging decisions based on what actually happened. You have to judge the decision based on the range of probable outcomes at the point the decision was made.
For starters you can be 98% certain that runs are extremely difficult to get in Adelaide on the fifth day. Look at the history of the venue for successful fourth inning run chases at Adelaide Oval. Also look at how small some of the unsuccessful totals were. Moral of the story is don't run up stairs and don't bat fourth in Adelaide.
I still think he made the right decision. No one knew it would swing about a lot that evening - it didn't any other evening. And, worst case, he knew that, even if Aus were skittled, England would be chasing around 350 and that they'd get nowhere near it batting last. Did he get a bit worried on Day 4 - yes, but not as worried as he'd have been if we'd been 170/4 after he'd enforced the follow on - and his bowlers were starting to tire.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Nice appraisal...

Enthralling test, had a bit of everything. The Aussies look the stronger team with their attack but I dunno if there's a hell of a lot in it. If England got angry enough they could take it up more.

Stokes got whacked all over the joint by Vinnie Munro yesterday... not really having an impression as yet apart from being an angry mofo. Dunno if he'd help if he got called up.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Olo »

Ellafan wrote:
Olo wrote:Bad decision that made it harder to win.

Any chance the powers that be suggested that batting again was a good idea? I didn't think so.
Maxwell in for Handscombe at the Wacca?
He's not in the XIII. Mitchell Marsh has been brought in.
I guess that he is a WACA local but his average is not great.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2017-18 Ashes Thread

Post by Thomas »

ovalball wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
Mahoney wrote:One of the biggest logical errors made by sports fans and commentators is judging decisions based on what actually happened. You have to judge the decision based on the range of probable outcomes at the point the decision was made.
For starters you can be 98% certain that runs are extremely difficult to get in Adelaide on the fifth day. Look at the history of the venue for successful fourth inning run chases at Adelaide Oval. Also look at how small some of the unsuccessful totals were. Moral of the story is don't run up stairs and don't bat fourth in Adelaide.
I still think he made the right decision. No one knew it would swing about a lot that evening - it didn't any other evening. And, worst case, he knew that, even if Aus were skittled, England would be chasing around 350 and that they'd get nowhere near it batting last. Did he get a bit worried on Day 4 - yes, but not as worried as he'd have been if we'd been 170/4 after he'd enforced the follow on - and his bowlers were starting to tire.
Let's do some hypothetical shit.

Smith enforces the follow on.

Best case scenario: England are skittled for about 180 runs chasing the 227 lead. Everyone is happy. Smith is lauded. Davey Warner laughs like a gibbon.

Worse Case Scenario: The ball doesn't move and the English see it like a big grapefruit. Cook and co makes big totals. Big ones. It boosts their confidence and they bat until about halfway through the last day. The Australian bowlers have been in the field for close to 160 overs by now. Australia are sent in to bat chasing a total of about 120 with a session and a bit to play. Anderson has the ball hooping all over the place. Australian fans start doing nervous farts. The memory of being rolled for 60-something in England comes back...

Smith doesn't enforce the follow on

Best case scenario: Australia score a respectable total and give England 350+ to chase. Australia roll them in the first session on Day 5.

Worst Case Scenario: Australia score a respectable total and give England 350+ to chase. Australia runs out of time to bowl England out or they, in a confidence boosting performance, run down the total with a couple of over to spare.

Smith 100% made the right decision based on what had happened during the match. Yeah we had some squeaky bum time last on Day 4 but it was easily the best decision to make.

You don't bat last on the Adelaide wicket if you can help it. You certainly don't bat last on the Adelaide wicket in a day-night test match.
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