"What race is d**khead?"

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Mick Mannock
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Mick Mannock »

Sefton wrote:I'm not sure what is being suggested but I'm quite confident that Bimbo has never displayed any bigoted or racist attitude on this forum and holds no such views personally.
Whereas you have a history of seeing those attitudes where they do exist.
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Sefton
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Sefton »

Mick Mannock wrote:
Sefton wrote:I'm not sure what is being suggested but I'm quite confident that Bimbo has never displayed any bigoted or racist attitude on this forum and holds no such views personally.
Whereas you have a history of seeing those attitudes where they do exist.
Thanks, Mick. :thumbup:
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by C69 »

Shoe shiningly good posts
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Edinburgh01
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Edinburgh01 »

Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Mick Mannock »

c69 wrote:Shoe shiningly good posts
Boxing clever
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Sefton
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Sefton »

Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Speak to any biologist and they'll tell you the categorisation of animals isn't that clear cut.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

bimboman wrote:
Calculus wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Isn't Africa the most genetically diverse continent?
Yes, but a lot of people like bimbo still think phenotyic difference correrates highly with genetic differences.

No I don't, and nothing I've said demonstrates such a belief. I tend to think of these disgraceful accusations of my thinking as deflection from the accusers beliefs and thoughts.

Lots of disgraceful people use a tactic like this as it covers their own behaviours and guilt.
So what was your Sickle Cell point about?
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Mick Mannock »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles
Most animals were not either.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by C69 »

Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles
Most animals were not either.
Apart from all domesticated animals
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles
Most animals were not either.
The ones we refer to using "breed" names, which I took to be what Edinburgh was referring to, were. If that's not what he meant then the answer is even simpler- we do use the same system
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Mick Mannock »

c69 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles
Most animals were not either.
Apart from all domesticated animals
Of course.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Calculus wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Isn't Africa the most genetically diverse continent?
Yes, but a lot of people like bimbo still think phenotyic difference correrates highly with genetic differences.

No I don't, and nothing I've said demonstrates such a belief. I tend to think of these disgraceful accusations of my thinking as deflection from the accusers beliefs and thoughts.

Lots of disgraceful people use a tactic like this as it covers their own behaviours and guilt.
So what was your Sickle Cell point about?

You know sickle cell only affects people from a particular heritage don't you ? That isn't racist , it's not like profiling at airport security, there's actually scientific and genetic reasons for some things.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles

What ? Biologists have only and do only categorise animals becaus animals have "specific roles"

Crikey what leap of new word understanding are you going to use now!
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Calculus wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Isn't Africa the most genetically diverse continent?
Yes, but a lot of people like bimbo still think phenotyic difference correrates highly with genetic differences.

No I don't, and nothing I've said demonstrates such a belief. I tend to think of these disgraceful accusations of my thinking as deflection from the accusers beliefs and thoughts.

Lots of disgraceful people use a tactic like this as it covers their own behaviours and guilt.
So what was your Sickle Cell point about?

You know sickle cell only affects people from a particular heritage don't you ? That isn't racist , it's not like profiling at airport security, there's actually scientific and genetic reasons for some things.
It's hereditary, yes I am aware. Are you saying that white people can't have sickle cell disease?
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Edinburgh01 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles
Most animals were not either.
The ones we refer to using "breed" names, which I took to be what Edinburgh was referring to, were. If that's not what he meant then the answer is even simpler- we do use the same system
No I wasn't, I was talking about species, genus, family etc. Do we use that system? If so how? (and yes I do appreciate we could use it with different labels, it is just not leaping out at me that we do).
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles
Most animals were not either.
The ones we refer to using "breed" names, which I took to be what Edinburgh was referring to, were. If that's not what he meant then the answer is even simpler- we do use the same system

Homo sapien. Which is a great ape, and recently we have discovered there's now 7 great ape species rather than 6.

Some biologists obviously do still look at these things.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Edinburgh01 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles
Most animals were not either.
The ones we refer to using "breed" names, which I took to be what Edinburgh was referring to, were. If that's not what he meant then the answer is even simpler- we do use the same system
No I wasn't, I was talking about species, genus, family etc. Do we use that system? If so how? (and yes I do appreciate we could use it with different labels, it is just not leaping out at me that we do).
Yes, we use that system. All humans are the same species, homo sapiens.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Edinburgh01 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles
Most animals were not either.
The ones we refer to using "breed" names, which I took to be what Edinburgh was referring to, were. If that's not what he meant then the answer is even simpler- we do use the same system
No I wasn't, I was talking about species, genus, family etc. Do we use that system? If so how? (and yes I do appreciate we could use it with different labels, it is just not leaping out at me that we do).
Yes, we use that system. All humans are the same species, homo sapiens.
Obvious when you say it. :blush:
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by JM2K6 »

bimboman wrote:
Calculus wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Isn't Africa the most genetically diverse continent?
Yes, but a lot of people like bimbo still think phenotyic difference correrates highly with genetic differences.

No I don't, and nothing I've said demonstrates such a belief. I tend to think of these disgraceful accusations of my thinking as deflection from the accusers beliefs and thoughts.

Lots of disgraceful people use a tactic like this as it covers their own behaviours and guilt.
Where did that come from? I was querying your question about "racially African".
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
So what was your Sickle Cell point about?

You know sickle cell only affects people from a particular heritage don't you ? That isn't racist , it's not like profiling at airport security, there's actually scientific and genetic reasons for some things.[/quote]

It's hereditary, yes I am aware. Are you saying that white people can't have sickle cell disease?[/quote]


What "white people" , Northern European origins then the answer is no they cannot as the mutation isn't present in the population and never has been.

It can occur in people from Southern Europe (very rare now) due to earlier eradication of malaria. These this are simple for you to look up yourselve if you're " genuinly curious".

My point regarding sickle cell is there isn't and shouldn't be funds available for myself (being Northern European ) to be tested for sickle cell.

Quite a few diseases and conditions that have genetic components are bias towards certain peoples from certain places or even certain genetic backgrounds. This is actually science n stuff, like the gender things though we now social sciences are allowed to super seed actual science.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

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Edinburgh01 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:Why do we not categorise humans using the same systems as we do for other animals? Is it purely because we are the ones doing the categorisations and think we are different?
Humans weren't deliberately bred to fit into specific roles
Most animals were not either.
The ones we refer to using "breed" names, which I took to be what Edinburgh was referring to, were. If that's not what he meant then the answer is even simpler- we do use the same system
No I wasn't, I was talking about species, genus, family etc. Do we use that system? If so how? (and yes I do appreciate we could use it with different labels, it is just not leaping out at me that we do).
Homo sapiens.

One of my lecturers at Auckland U was Vince Sarich who, together with New Zealand biologist Alan Wilson, applied the molecular clock to human evolution.
In their seminal paper in 1967 in Science, Sarich and Wilson estimated the divergence time of humans and apes as four to five million years ago,[2] at a time when standard interpretations of the fossil record gave this divergence as at least 10 to as much as 30 million years. Subsequent fossil discoveries, notably Lucy, and reinterpretation of older fossil materials, notably Ramapithecus, showed the younger estimates to be correct and validated the albumin method. Application of the molecular clock principle revolutionized the study of molecular evolution.[citation needed]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Sarich

Sarich thought that 'races' we're the beginnings if human speciation. Interesting guy.
Last edited by Santa on Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bimboman
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

JM2K6 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Calculus wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Isn't Africa the most genetically diverse continent?
Yes, but a lot of people like bimbo still think phenotyic difference correrates highly with genetic differences.

No I don't, and nothing I've said demonstrates such a belief. I tend to think of these disgraceful accusations of my thinking as deflection from the accusers beliefs and thoughts.

Lots of disgraceful people use a tactic like this as it covers their own behaviours and guilt.
Where did that come from? I was querying your question about "racially African".

I was replying to calculus, I sorry your quoted above the post I replied too.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

I know I can look it up for myself, and as a matter of fact I did. There is nothing stopping a white person from getting sickle-cell disease (unless you subscribe to the "one-drop rule" anyway), all they need is a heritage which has included a carrier and the lucky/unlucky combination of alleles in each preceding generation to give them that specific haemoglobin mutation.

And that point is entirely fair, but my point is that "race" is such a poor proxy for genetic markers of this stuff that we are genuinely better off not using it.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

Chuckles1188 wrote:I know I can look it up for myself, and as a matter of fact I did. There is nothing stopping a white person from getting sickle-cell disease (unless you subscribe to the "one-drop rule" anyway), all they need is a heritage which has included a carrier and the lucky/unlucky combination of alleles in each preceding generation to give them that specific haemoglobin mutation.

And that point is entirely fair, but my point is that "race" is such a poor proxy for genetic markers of this stuff that we are genuinely better off not using it.

Sorry can you explain how you think a couple with only German heritage can have a child with sickle trait ?
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I know I can look it up for myself, and as a matter of fact I did. There is nothing stopping a white person from getting sickle-cell disease (unless you subscribe to the "one-drop rule" anyway), all they need is a heritage which has included a carrier and the lucky/unlucky combination of alleles in each preceding generation to give them that specific haemoglobin mutation.

And that point is entirely fair, but my point is that "race" is such a poor proxy for genetic markers of this stuff that we are genuinely better off not using it.

Sorry can you explain how you think a couple with only German heritage can have a child with sickle trait ?
I don't.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I know I can look it up for myself, and as a matter of fact I did. There is nothing stopping a white person from getting sickle-cell disease (unless you subscribe to the "one-drop rule" anyway), all they need is a heritage which has included a carrier and the lucky/unlucky combination of alleles in each preceding generation to give them that specific haemoglobin mutation.

And that point is entirely fair, but my point is that "race" is such a poor proxy for genetic markers of this stuff that we are genuinely better off not using it.

Sorry can you explain how you think a couple with only German heritage can have a child with sickle trait ?
I don't.
So only some "white" people can get sickle cell traits ?

It's almost like there's issues with heritage and genetics that can be grouped ..... Now what shall we call these groups.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Mick Mannock »

Chuckles1188 wrote:I know I can look it up for myself, and as a matter of fact I did. There is nothing stopping a white person from getting sickle-cell disease (unless you subscribe to the "one-drop rule" anyway), all they need is a heritage which has included a carrier and the lucky/unlucky combination of alleles in each preceding generation to give them that specific haemoglobin mutation.

And that point is entirely fair, but my point is that "race" is such a poor proxy for genetic markers of this stuff that we are genuinely better off not using it.
Will you be petitioning the NHS to offer Sickle Cell tests to all prospective parents, as is currently the case with thalassaemia?
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I know I can look it up for myself, and as a matter of fact I did. There is nothing stopping a white person from getting sickle-cell disease (unless you subscribe to the "one-drop rule" anyway), all they need is a heritage which has included a carrier and the lucky/unlucky combination of alleles in each preceding generation to give them that specific haemoglobin mutation.

And that point is entirely fair, but my point is that "race" is such a poor proxy for genetic markers of this stuff that we are genuinely better off not using it.

Sorry can you explain how you think a couple with only German heritage can have a child with sickle trait ?
I don't.
So only some "white" people can get sickle cell traits ?

It's almost like there's issues with heritage and genetics that can be grouped ..... Now what shall we call these groups.
I don't know but we definitely don't and aren't going to call them "races"
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I know I can look it up for myself, and as a matter of fact I did. There is nothing stopping a white person from getting sickle-cell disease (unless you subscribe to the "one-drop rule" anyway), all they need is a heritage which has included a carrier and the lucky/unlucky combination of alleles in each preceding generation to give them that specific haemoglobin mutation.

And that point is entirely fair, but my point is that "race" is such a poor proxy for genetic markers of this stuff that we are genuinely better off not using it.
Will you be petitioning the NHS to offer Sickle Cell tests to all prospective parents, as is currently the case with thalassaemia?
No. Why would I?
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

I don't know but we definitely don't and aren't going to call them "races"
Because you've decided that's the case? Shall we inform all those places and people and systems and research etc that does use the term "race" that its been decided they're not allowed to any more ?
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I know I can look it up for myself, and as a matter of fact I did. There is nothing stopping a white person from getting sickle-cell disease (unless you subscribe to the "one-drop rule" anyway), all they need is a heritage which has included a carrier and the lucky/unlucky combination of alleles in each preceding generation to give them that specific haemoglobin mutation.

And that point is entirely fair, but my point is that "race" is such a poor proxy for genetic markers of this stuff that we are genuinely better off not using it.
Will you be petitioning the NHS to offer Sickle Cell tests to all prospective parents, as is currently the case with thalassaemia?
No. Why would I?

Because of their bigoted practices ...
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Mick Mannock »

bimboman wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I know I can look it up for myself, and as a matter of fact I did. There is nothing stopping a white person from getting sickle-cell disease (unless you subscribe to the "one-drop rule" anyway), all they need is a heritage which has included a carrier and the lucky/unlucky combination of alleles in each preceding generation to give them that specific haemoglobin mutation.

And that point is entirely fair, but my point is that "race" is such a poor proxy for genetic markers of this stuff that we are genuinely better off not using it.
Will you be petitioning the NHS to offer Sickle Cell tests to all prospective parents, as is currently the case with thalassaemia?
No. Why would I?

Because of their bigoted practices ...
Or possibly because the NHS has good scientific reasons for not doing so?
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

I guess you could start with ACAS:

http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1849

They use "race" .....


Or the governemnt


https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

bimboman wrote:
I don't know but we definitely don't and aren't going to call them "races"
Because you've decided that's the case? Shall we inform all those places and people and systems and research etc that does use the term "race" that its been decided they're not allowed to any more ?
What research that you don't dismiss out of hand as a waste of time uses the term "race"? Biology definitely doesn't.

The reason is that "race" is an already-existing term with no scientific basis behind it. Technical terminology is precise because it has to be, "race" is a hugely non-precise term.
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Mick Mannock »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
I don't know but we definitely don't and aren't going to call them "races"
Because you've decided that's the case? Shall we inform all those places and people and systems and research etc that does use the term "race" that its been decided they're not allowed to any more ?
What research that you don't dismiss out of hand as a waste of time uses the term "race"? Biology definitely doesn't.

The reason is that "race" is an already-existing term with no scientific basis behind it. Technical terminology is precise because it has to be, "race" is a hugely non-precise term.
It is certainly imprecise when one thinks Muslims and Scientologists are distinct races
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

bimboman wrote:I guess you could start with ACAS:

http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1849

They use "race" .....


Or the governemnt


https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

ACAS includes "religion" in its definition of "race", so....
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Mick Mannock wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
I don't know but we definitely don't and aren't going to call them "races"
Because you've decided that's the case? Shall we inform all those places and people and systems and research etc that does use the term "race" that its been decided they're not allowed to any more ?
What research that you don't dismiss out of hand as a waste of time uses the term "race"? Biology definitely doesn't.

The reason is that "race" is an already-existing term with no scientific basis behind it. Technical terminology is precise because it has to be, "race" is a hugely non-precise term.
It is certainly imprecise when one thinks Muslims and Scientologists are distinct races
And that "black" is a meaningful category
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by bimboman »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
bimboman wrote:I guess you could start with ACAS:

http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1849

They use "race" .....


Or the governemnt


https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

ACAS includes "religion" in its definition of "race", so....

No it doesn't

http://m.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/1/6/Race ... kplace.pdf
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Re: "What race is d**khead?"

Post by Turbogoat »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
bimboman wrote:I guess you could start with ACAS:

http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1849

They use "race" .....


Or the governemnt


https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

ACAS includes "religion" in its definition of "race", so....
:lol:
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