Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

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dargotronV.1
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Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by dargotronV.1 »

Hey, check it out, I made a match thread cos naebdie seems to have made one yet

Who

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vs

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Where

BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh
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Image


When

Saturday 18th November 2017
Kick Off 17.15 GMT (NZDT: 06.15 the following day)
Live on BBC + other pretendy Kiwi channels

Teams

Scotland
15. Stuart Hogg VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 54 caps
14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 37 caps
13. Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
12. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 27 caps
11. Lee Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 6 caps
10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 30 caps
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps

1. Darryl Marfo (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
2. Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – 10 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
4. Ben Toolis (Edinburgh Rugby) – 5 caps
5. Jonny Gray VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 35 caps
6. John Barclay CAPTAIN (Scarlets) – 64 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 13 caps
8. Cornell du Preez (Edinburgh Rugby) – 3 caps

Substitutes
16. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap
17. Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh Rugby) – 3 caps
19. Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 16 caps
20. Luke Hamilton (Leicester Tigers) – uncapped
21. Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps
22. Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 26 caps
23. Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) – uncapped

New Zealand
1. Kane Hames (7)
2. Codie Taylor (26)
3. Nepo Laulala (11)
4. Luke Romano (30)
5. Samuel Whitelock (94)
6. Vaea Fifita (4)
7. Sam Cane (51)
8. Kieran Read - captain (108)

9. Aaron Smith (69)
10. Beauden Barrett (60)
11. Rieko Ioane (11)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (44)
13. Ryan Crotty (33)
14. Waisake Naholo (16)
15. Damian McKenzie (10)

16. Nathan Harris (9)
17. Wyatt Crockett (69)
18. Ofa Tu'ungafasi (12)
19. Liam Squire (13)
20. Matt Todd (11)
21. TJ Perenara (40)
22. Lima Sopoaga (14)
23. Anton Lienert-Brown (20)


Officials
Referee Matthew Carley (England)
Assistant 1 Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2 Ian Davies (Wales)
TMO David Grashoff (England)


2017 Form
Scotland W 6, L 3
New Zealand W 9, D 1, L 2 :shock:


Match Odds
Scotland 9-1
New Zealand 1-16
Last edited by dargotronV.1 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:10 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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slick
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by slick »

I have the feeling the style we are trying to play is going to make us very vulnerable against this lot, but we might have to take a close game on the chin for the good of developing it further.

Scotland by 4
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dargotronV.1
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by dargotronV.1 »

slick wrote:I have the feeling the style we are trying to play is going to make us very vulnerable against this lot, but we might have to take a close game on the chin for the good of developing it further.

Scotland by 4
I fear a repeat of the Twickenham fiasco, but given we're at home, I think we'll be far more competitive and keep them under 60.

#funnynotfunny
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lorcanoworms
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by lorcanoworms »

Well France had kids playing at half back and Scotland are better than France, so em eh I don't Know.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by clydecloggie »

NZ have looked part imperious, part vulnerable this season with little indication which of the two it will be in any given game (or even part-game, as was shown in Paris last weekend).

An on-paper much poorer Scotland side ran them close three years ago, with Laidlaw missing a kick to put them ahead on 60 minutes.

Weather set to be dry if a bit chilly, so potentially great for the running rugby favoured by both sides.

My main worries are L Jones v Naholo on the wing, and Wilson - Watson - Barclay v Read - Cane - A N other.

My main reasons for optimism are 1) that this is exactly the kind of game that Finn Russell thrives on, he'd love to scalp another famous NZ stand-off, 2) that the electric 13-15 partnership between Hogg and Huw Jones was dusted off last weekend and will fire this weekend and 3) that somehow this team seems to have shed the habit of conjuring up heartbreaking close losses.

So I agree with the above- Scotland by 4. Famous win on the cards. Bring it on.

(NZ by 20)
Last edited by clydecloggie on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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clydecloggie
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by clydecloggie »

YOYO wrote:Where are the saxy women? One representing each country, naked preferably.
Image

Image

Sorry, googled for 'some kiwi bint' for the second one and this was the closest thing to it.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by mr bungle »

That’s Australian.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by mr bungle »

1) that this is exactly the kind of game that Finn Russell thrives on, he'd love to scalp another famous NZ stand-off,
:?: fill me in here... are you talking 2014?
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by clydecloggie »

mr bungle wrote:
1) that this is exactly the kind of game that Finn Russell thrives on, he'd love to scalp another famous NZ stand-off,
:?: fill me in here...
Famously outplayed Dan Carter in last season's Champions Cup double-header between Glasgow and Racing.
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mr bungle
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by mr bungle »

clydecloggie wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
1) that this is exactly the kind of game that Finn Russell thrives on, he'd love to scalp another famous NZ stand-off,
:?: fill me in here...
Famously outplayed Dan Carter in last season's Champions Cup double-header between Glasgow and Racing.
Small victories :thumbup:
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dargotronV.1
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by dargotronV.1 »

clydecloggie wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
1) that this is exactly the kind of game that Finn Russell thrives on, he'd love to scalp another famous NZ stand-off,
:?: fill me in here...
Famously outplayed Dan Carter in last season's Champions Cup double-header between Glasgow and Racing.
He did didn't he, but without wishing to diminish such an achievement a) Racing were crap that year, and b) FR needs to add a layer of consistency to his game if Scotland want to get the best out of him. He wins Glasgow and Scotland games through his unpredictability, but equally can cost us field position and points on occasion too when he might otherwise take a less risky option. Very good with the bad, if only he could rein in the bad I reckon he could challenge Farrell/Sexton for best OH in the NH.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by WoodlandsRFC »

mr bungle wrote:
clydecloggie wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
1) that this is exactly the kind of game that Finn Russell thrives on, he'd love to scalp another famous NZ stand-off,
:?: fill me in here...
Famously outplayed Dan Carter in last season's Champions Cup double-header between Glasgow and Racing.
Small victories :thumbup:
Famously.
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Clive Simms
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Clive Simms »

I thought Russell was boyfriend to Ali Price. Must've got my wires crossed somewhere
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Akkerman »

famously :shock:

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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by le chat »

I was up in Perth last weekend, there is a real buzz about the country that Scotland can win this one
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by slick »

le chat wrote:I was up in Perth last weekend, there is a real buzz about the country that Scotland can win this one
Australia? I'm not picking that up here to be honest
le chat
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by le chat »

slick wrote:
le chat wrote:I was up in Perth last weekend, there is a real buzz about the country that Scotland can win this one
Australia? I'm not picking that up here to be honest
The Scottish one silly
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by clydecloggie »

Clive Simms wrote:I thought Russell was boyfriend to Ali Price. Must've got my wires crossed somewhere
No that pic of him with Miss Scotland is from a few years back when it was mandatory for Scots rugby players to hook up with beauty contest winners. He is now indeed in a lovely bromance with wee Ali Price.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by spanks »

Getting excited about this one.

Obviously our defence needs to improve 100% and set-piece stability continue but I think we've got the back-line to give them a scare.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by slick »

spanks wrote:Getting excited about this one.

Obviously our defence needs to improve 100% and set-piece stability continue but I think we've got the back-line to give them a scare.
Will be very useful having Huw Jones about just to let the rest know they are just human. Hogg will be chomping at the bit.

I love Huw Jones.

Scotland by 8
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by naki »

spanks wrote:Getting excited about this one.

Obviously our defence needs to improve 100% and set-piece stability continue but I think we've got the back-line to give them a scare.
It’s a strange case of Dr Jackoff or Mr Hiding. The ABs have been both this year, sometimes within the same game - sometimes in the same farking move.

NZ will want to blitz early. We’re struggling with the tight ones since McCaw retired.

Perfect time to hit an unstable side (though we’re unlikely to field an experimental team this year which is the usual approach at Murrayfield)
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by OptimisticJock »

le chat wrote:I was up in Perth last weekend, there is a real buzz about the country that Scotland can win this one
You were probably talking to me and I was steaming. I ken even less when I'm steaming.
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spanks
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by spanks »

naki wrote:
spanks wrote:Getting excited about this one.

Obviously our defence needs to improve 100% and set-piece stability continue but I think we've got the back-line to give them a scare.
It’s a strange case of Dr Jackoff or Mr Hiding. The ABs have been both this year, sometimes within the same game - sometimes in the same farking move.

NZ will want to blitz early. We’re struggling with the tight ones since McCaw retired.

Perfect time to hit an unstable side (though we’re unlikely to field an experimental team this year which is the usual approach at Murrayfield)
Looks like you've lost a lot of experience up front, is Read likely to be fit?

We've got to play a more sensible territory game, no running it from our inside our 10m line; Price, Russell & Hogg need to keep us near their 22.
Last edited by spanks on Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by slick »

OptimisticJock wrote:
le chat wrote:I was up in Perth last weekend, there is a real buzz about the country that Scotland can win this one
You were probably talking to me and I was steaming. I ken even less when I'm steaming.
:lol: :lol:
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naki
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by naki »

spanks wrote:
naki wrote:
spanks wrote:Getting excited about this one.

Obviously our defence needs to improve 100% and set-piece stability continue but I think we've got the back-line to give them a scare.
It’s a strange case of Dr Jackoff or Mr Hiding. The ABs have been both this year, sometimes within the same game - sometimes in the same farking move.

NZ will want to blitz early. We’re struggling with the tight ones since McCaw retired.

Perfect time to hit an unstable side (though we’re unlikely to field an experimental team this year which is the usual approach at Murrayfield)
Looks like you've lost a lot of experience up front, is Read likely to be fit?
Yes, he was pulled early against France as a pre-planned sub to challenge the rest of the leadership group apparently.

We’ve lost our entire first choice front row though, and Retallick. More settled in the backs, but still without Milner-Skudder, Dagg or Ben Smith.

It’s going to be a raw side
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Andalu »

Not sure how a game between Racing and Glasgow can have any bearing on this game.
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slick
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by slick »

Andalu wrote:Not sure how a game between Racing and Glasgow can have any bearing on this game.
You might be taking this a bit too seriously
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Andalu »

Probably.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by clydecloggie »

naki wrote:
spanks wrote:
naki wrote:
spanks wrote:Getting excited about this one.

Obviously our defence needs to improve 100% and set-piece stability continue but I think we've got the back-line to give them a scare.
It’s a strange case of Dr Jackoff or Mr Hiding. The ABs have been both this year, sometimes within the same game - sometimes in the same farking move.

NZ will want to blitz early. We’re struggling with the tight ones since McCaw retired.

Perfect time to hit an unstable side (though we’re unlikely to field an experimental team this year which is the usual approach at Murrayfield)
Looks like you've lost a lot of experience up front, is Read likely to be fit?
Yes, he was pulled early against France as a pre-planned sub to challenge the rest of the leadership group apparently.

We’ve lost our entire first choice front row though, and Retallick. More settled in the backs, but still without Milner-Skudder, Dagg or Ben Smith.

It’s going to be a raw side
We've lost our entire front row, and Richie Gray. More settled in the backs but still without Taylor, Maitland or Seymour (possibly).

It's going to be a raw side.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Thank you Scotland for scheduling this at as reasonable a time as you could to include us in the audience.

Darg - kickoff here (Daylight Savings time) is 6.15am so the sun is up
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by dargotronV.1 »

Enzedder wrote:Thank you Scotland for scheduling this at as reasonable a time as you could to include us in the audience.

Darg - kickoff here (Daylight Savings time) is 6.15am so the sun is up
OP updated :thumbup:
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Mr Mike »

I may be there Saturday. What options are there to get tickets?
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Dork Lard »

I know Scotland conceded 40 pts at home to Samoa, but I watched the game and Scotland still are a very well drilled team and they may not have the talent France has from 1 to 23 but they've got a few really good players at key positions and are a very well drilled team so NZ might run into a worthy side this weekend as opposed to vs France last Saturday.

If they start this game well, and don't concede like two tries in 5min which the AB will often do to you, they can give NZ a game.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by dargotronV.1 »

Dork Lard wrote:I know Scotland conceded 40 pts at home to Samoa, but I watched the game and Scotland still are a very well drilled team and they may not have the talent France has from 1 to 23 but they've got a few really good players at key positions and are a very well drilled team so NZ might run into a worthy side this weekend as opposed to vs France last Saturday.

If they start this game well, and don't concede like two tries in 5min which the AB will often do to you, they can give NZ a game.
You think? I reckon the main reason France beat Scotland last year was due to their physical dominance. Talent wise, I would take most of the Scottish players over the French, with a few exceptions mostly in the pack.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Dork Lard »

dargotronV.1 wrote:
Dork Lard wrote:I know Scotland conceded 40 pts at home to Samoa, but I watched the game and Scotland still are a very well drilled team and they may not have the talent France has from 1 to 23 but they've got a few really good players at key positions and are a very well drilled team so NZ might run into a worthy side this weekend as opposed to vs France last Saturday.

If they start this game well, and don't concede like two tries in 5min which the AB will often do to you, they can give NZ a game.
You think? I reckon the main reason France beat Scotland last year was due to their physical dominance. Talent wise, I would take most of the Scottish players over the French, with a few exceptions mostly in the pack.
So which is it ? ;) And trust me, a fully fit France side on paper and Scotland, it's not comparable. I can see this is making you uneasy from even your first reply, but don't take it personally. Which plays into Scotland's quality in fact btw: they beat France well at Murrayfield a couple years ago, and they didn't come all that far from winning in Paris a few times now, despite France's advantage in depth and talent 1 to 23. Even in the backs, I mean France do have the likes of Serin Dupont at 9, Lopez at 10, Nakaitaci Fofana Lamerat Penaud Vakatawa Dulin or other lesser known players. I know Huw Jones, Hogg Seymor Visser are good, Russell is a very talented 10 but you'd have to give it to France even in the backs, player for player. Scotland are miles better collectively though, no doubt. Much much better drilled team.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by dargotronV.1 »

Dork Lard wrote:
dargotronV.1 wrote:
Dork Lard wrote:I know Scotland conceded 40 pts at home to Samoa, but I watched the game and Scotland still are a very well drilled team and they may not have the talent France has from 1 to 23 but they've got a few really good players at key positions and are a very well drilled team so NZ might run into a worthy side this weekend as opposed to vs France last Saturday.

If they start this game well, and don't concede like two tries in 5min which the AB will often do to you, they can give NZ a game.
You think? I reckon the main reason France beat Scotland last year was due to their physical dominance. Talent wise, I would take most of the Scottish players over the French, with a few exceptions mostly in the pack.
So which is it ? ;) And trust me, a fully fit France side on paper and Scotland, it's not comparable. I can see this is making you uneasy from even your first reply, but don't take it personally. Which plays into Scotland's quality in fact btw: they beat France well at Murrayfield a couple years ago, and they didn't come all that far from winning in Paris a few times now, despite France's advantage in depth and talent 1 to 23. Even in the backs, I mean France do have the likes of Serin Dupont at 9, Lopez at 10, Nakaitaci Fofana Lamerat Penaud Vakatawa Dulin or other lesser known players. I know Huw Jones, Hogg Seymor Visser are good, Russell is a very talented 10 but you'd have to give it to France even in the backs, player for player. Scotland are miles better collectively though, no doubt. Much much better drilled team.
I'm not uneasy, you misunderstand entirely. And depth no question. Not questioning depth. You state again that France has advantage in talent. Just don't see it myself, sorry..France only narrowly defeated Scotland last year via some brutal hits and scrummaging which Scotland couldn't handle. Pretty dull really, and nothing to suggest a gulf in talent.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Edinburgh01 »

Mr Mike wrote:I may be there Saturday. What options are there to get tickets?
It was sold out, but I just had a look and there are a small number of tickets available so there must have been returns. You'll probably have to move fast though as the match originally sold out in days.

https://www.eticketing.co.uk/scottishru ... emref=5872
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Post by naki »

Seems I was wrong about Read, team making delayed to assess his fitness ( and Romano’s). Oh dear.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Mr Mike »

Edinburgh01 wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:I may be there Saturday. What options are there to get tickets?
It was sold out, but I just had a look and there are a small number of tickets available so there must have been returns. You'll probably have to move fast though as the match originally sold out in days.

https://www.eticketing.co.uk/scottishru ... emref=5872
Done, many thanks.
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Re: Scotland-New Zealand Autumn Test - Official Thread

Post by Dork Lard »

dargotronV.1 wrote:
Dork Lard wrote:
dargotronV.1 wrote:
Dork Lard wrote:I know Scotland conceded 40 pts at home to Samoa, but I watched the game and Scotland still are a very well drilled team and they may not have the talent France has from 1 to 23 but they've got a few really good players at key positions and are a very well drilled team so NZ might run into a worthy side this weekend as opposed to vs France last Saturday.

If they start this game well, and don't concede like two tries in 5min which the AB will often do to you, they can give NZ a game.
You think? I reckon the main reason France beat Scotland last year was due to their physical dominance. Talent wise, I would take most of the Scottish players over the French, with a few exceptions mostly in the pack.
So which is it ? ;) And trust me, a fully fit France side on paper and Scotland, it's not comparable. I can see this is making you uneasy from even your first reply, but don't take it personally. Which plays into Scotland's quality in fact btw: they beat France well at Murrayfield a couple years ago, and they didn't come all that far from winning in Paris a few times now, despite France's advantage in depth and talent 1 to 23. Even in the backs, I mean France do have the likes of Serin Dupont at 9, Lopez at 10, Nakaitaci Fofana Lamerat Penaud Vakatawa Dulin or other lesser known players. I know Huw Jones, Hogg Seymor Visser are good, Russell is a very talented 10 but you'd have to give it to France even in the backs, player for player. Scotland are miles better collectively though, no doubt. Much much better drilled team.
I'm not uneasy, you misunderstand entirely. And depth no question. Not questioning depth. You state again that France has advantage in talent. Just don't see it myself, sorry..France only narrowly defeated Scotland last year via some brutal hits and scrummaging which Scotland couldn't handle. Pretty dull really, and nothing to suggest a gulf in talent.
Alright, well I mention actual French players in there vs Scottish players. At full strength, at virtually every position on a matchday sheet from 1 to 23 France have the better individual player. Scotland's best player right now is Stuart Hogg, yeah ? their best forward I'd say Hamish Watson. Yes ? Scotland's front row is way below the French one, Scotland don't have a lock the quality of Vahaamahina, they don't have talent like Ollivon Gourdon Picamoles Macalou etc... in the back row globally can't really compare, at halfback Dupont or Serin or Parra are better than wtvr Sco have there and Lopez is much more consistent/better defender and just >> Russell. Nakaitaci or Vakatawa, who are total Fijians granted, have more ability and beat more defenders/create situations more than anyone Scotland has there, the midfield is LOADED in France, Scotland do have Hogg who > Spedding or Dulin...

Did that paragraph seem particularly unfair ? I'd trade half the talent for a staff that could instill proper organization and cohesiveness like Scotland has though. Again.
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