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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:23 am 
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Right this is for the Yanks
Not EDf and his DT vendetta.
Wtf is it with this Democratic Socialist wing of the Democrats?
It's a Social Democratic thing Ffs not a Democratic Socialist thing.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:32 am 
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c69 wrote:
Right this is for the Yanks
Not EDf and his DT vendetta.


Keep trying

Quote:
Wtf is it with this Democratic Socialist wing of the Domocrats?
It's a Social Democratic thing Ffs not a Democratic Socialist thing.


The point I made not so long ago.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:35 am 
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Just ignore him, everyone else does.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:58 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
etc.

You seem to lack comprehension. I made a general point about the two faced identity politics debate. I then gave an instance using affirmative action and how that is treated as opposed to manufacturing jobs in the heartland. How in the duck is that moving goalposts? When we're tea party identity politics demonized? I don't remember the media talking about it as such? It wasn't until Obama was gone and all the supposed issues that mattered didn't matter.

I don't think you lean toward the right end. I think you lean toward the I have never been in the USA but I know more about it than you who live there end.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:32 am 
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Bowens wrote:
What! Dude it happened and we have tape. There’s no point in making up alternate explanations for this. Breakfast Club played themselves with that Comical Ali appearance on MSNBC and their listeners know it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh_wQUjeaTk&t=38m11s

Warren has her pluses but I just don’t see her climbing much above where she is now. When you look at name recognition and polling numbers, she has the worst ratio - ie most know her name but don’t consider her a strong candidate. Klobuchar and Gillibrand are centrists. Not in Bernie’s (or Tulsi’s or Yang’s) lane. Gillibrand was in the Blue Dog Coalition man! She’s one of the most conservative Dems left.


Bro! We both have our biases. I don't like Bernie or Tulsi and I get you don't like Harris. But you and I both know she was answering Envy while Charlemagne was asking his question. Your better than that.

When I said lane, I mean issues that he can be at the forefront off. The difference between Hillary and Bernie's platform was 5 percent according to reports. How much smaller will it be now? How is he gonna evolve? Is he now gonna take back the things he said that lost him older minorities? He has his name recognition and his base from 2016 sure but even with all of that he did woeful in primaries. I don't think he will be able to get away with breaking agreements and blaming the Dems because you will have 4 or 5 other candidates calling him out on it. And like I said, what about when tax returns start being produced? Will he shift the topic like last time? His cult of personality will be tested this time.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:54 am 
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I’m not trying to convince you on Bernie that would be pointless.

She laughed and looked at CthaG. We both know why. The two different convos spin is some real funny shit.

“What was you listening to when you was high?”
*she laughs*
“What song was... was it Snoop?”
“Oh my goodness. Oh yeah definitely Snoop, uh-huh. 2Pac for sure.”

Cmon man. No way is her Baby Boomer self answering that to what kind of music does she listen to. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:05 am 
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Bowens wrote:
I’m not trying to convince you on Bernie that would be pointless.

She laughed and looked at CthaG. We both know why. The two different convos spin is some real funny shit.

“What was you listening to when you was high?”
*she laughs*
“What song was... was it Snoop?”
“Oh my goodness. Oh yeah definitely Snoop, uh-huh. 2Pac for sure.”

Cmon man. No way is her Baby Boomer self answering that to what kind of music does she listen to. :lol:


I guess your gonna just believe that. No point in breaking down how I interpret it. It would be like showing you Tulsi's list of legislation enacted as a Rep and you saying it doesn't matter. Harris is faking but Gabbard is sincerely cool with gays now.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:39 am 
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FR and GoEy!


https://international.commonwealthfund. ... s/germany/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-38899811

https://medium.com/@liveworkgermany...r ... 829f146ca5

My friend sent me those. It is almost too informative. The Commonwealth Fund one goes into loads of detail.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:57 am 
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Tulsi’s voting record on gay rights is top notch. I think she got like the highest rating. Kamala’s record as a prosecutor and legislator on weed speaks for itself.

Then there’s stuff like this: https://thehill.com/policy/finance/3127 ... -pick-over

I expected the DNC to push her through, said it on here at least a year ago. But I was sort of hoping the super delegates would at least wait until everyone declared. We are five months out from the first debate and she is getting endorsements. If there isn’t the appearance of a fair process after 2016, I don’t see how they mobilize enough voters. Remember that most people are independents, not D or R. When no one inspires them they generally sit it out. 100 million voters did last time.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:56 am 
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Bowens wrote:
Tulsi’s voting record on gay rights is top notch. I think she got like the highest rating. Kamala’s record as a prosecutor and legislator on weed speaks for itself.

Then there’s stuff like this: https://thehill.com/policy/finance/3127 ... -pick-over

I expected the DNC to push her through, said it on here at least a year ago. But I was sort of hoping the super delegates would at least wait until everyone declared. We are five months out from the first debate and she is getting endorsements. If there isn’t the appearance of a fair process after 2016, I don’t see how they mobilize enough voters. Remember that most people are independents, not D or R. When no one inspires them they generally sit it out. 100 million voters did last time.



Yeah so this is OK, https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/01/13/politi ... index.html no big deal but a doctored audio of liking snoop is proof of a proven liar in your world. I don't even know what to say bro.

If independents don't see what is at risk this time then that is on them. Their indifference and what happens to it was shown in 2016. Plus if they have a problem with who the Dems pick maybe you should be a dem and have a say. And why am I not surprised that a member of the Tulsa and Bernie fan club is complaining about Super delegates already? Why do they get to live in a consequence free world. Those two shit on the party, I have already gone through all the things Bernie did in 2016 against general rules and cried when challenged. Yet boo the super delegates for not liking people that block Dems from running in his state, among other things. I showed you CthaG saying Harris interview was being misused and you didnt believe them and dismissed them. So if they saying it doesn't sway you, how are the Dems gonna sway you that it was a fair process short of letting Bernie or Tulsi win?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:05 am 
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Expecting someone to know what they were listening yesterday to while stoned is an unreasonably high standard to hold anyone to, let alone 30 years ago.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:46 am 
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Deadtigers wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
etc.

You seem to lack comprehension. I made a general point about the two faced identity politics debate. I then gave an instance using affirmative action and how that is treated as opposed to manufacturing jobs in the heartland. How in the duck is that moving goalposts? When we're tea party identity politics demonized? I don't remember the media talking about it as such? It wasn't until Obama was gone and all the supposed issues that mattered didn't matter.

I don't think you lean toward the right end. I think you lean toward the I have never been in the USA but I know more about it than you who live there end.


Because manufacturing jobs in heartlands aren't issues based upon race identity. It affects all kinds and art of a broader global malise.

As for your comments on Tea Party Politics, you must have either been a secluded child at the time or are a f#cking liar if you can't remember the Tea Party being raged against by the media and on this board, particularly in Obama's first term as president. People celebrated people like Glen Beck getting destroyed and even losing his job because even f#cking Fox News thought he and the Tea party were to far gone and forced basically because they couldn't deal with a black president. The Tea party where rightfully always treated as a rightwing lunatic group full of racists who had taken over the republican party and even the likes of John McCain got slaughtered for pandering to them. Then there was The Daily Show's excellent gag about how they sullied the actual name of tea bagging.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:51 am 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Expecting someone to know what they were listening yesterday to while stoned is an unreasonably high standard to hold anyone to, let alone 30 years ago.


Yeah but people know what sort of music they listened to. No hippy in the 60's claimed they listened to Abba or would be confused. Her drug comments where obviously pandering. Or regardless full of hypocrisy. It's as believable as Clinton's "I didn't inhale" or explanations for how he believed "I didn't have sexual relations with that girl" was truthful after a blowjob and inappropriate use of cigars.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:12 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
A good parallel is HRC talking about always having a bottle of hot sauce in her purse, while she was speaking to a group of African Americans.


I know what you mean (pandering), but just about anyone who travels, especially Americans seem to do this. Hell,I know one guy who had a custom leather holster on his belt for his bottle of tabasco.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
A good parallel is HRC talking about always having a bottle of hot sauce in her purse, while she was speaking to a group of African Americans.


I know what you mean (pandering), but just about anyone who travels, especially Americans seem to do this. Hell,I know one guy who had a custom leather holster on his belt for his bottle of tabasco.



I’d like to get one.


Image

Quickdraw speed holster.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:19 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
etc.

You seem to lack comprehension. I made a general point about the two faced identity politics debate. I then gave an instance using affirmative action and how that is treated as opposed to manufacturing jobs in the heartland. How in the duck is that moving goalposts? When we're tea party identity politics demonized? I don't remember the media talking about it as such? It wasn't until Obama was gone and all the supposed issues that mattered didn't matter.

I don't think you lean toward the right end. I think you lean toward the I have never been in the USA but I know more about it than you who live there end.


Because manufacturing jobs in heartlands aren't issues based upon race identity. It affects all kinds and art of a broader global malise.

As for your comments on Tea Party Politics, you must have either been a secluded child at the time or are a f#cking liar if you can't remember the Tea Party being raged against by the media and on this board, particularly in Obama's first term as president. People celebrated people like Glen Beck getting destroyed and even losing his job because even f#cking Fox News thought he and the Tea party were to far gone and forced basically because they couldn't deal with a black president. The Tea party where rightfully always treated as a rightwing lunatic group full of racists who had taken over the republican party and even the likes of John McCain got slaughtered for pandering to them. Then there was The Daily Show's excellent gag about how they sullied the actual name of tea bagging.


Affirmative action effects more than blacks. It effects women and other minorities but it is a black issue somehow. And jobs in the heartland are about race. Look at the demographics in the heartland? You are being you and ducking lying. I guess apparently the white working class don't exist until you want to complain about hillary.

As for the Tea party, I don't give a duck what was being said here. I was talking about the media and how things were going on in America. I am sorry that was your only experience with America.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:21 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
A good parallel is HRC talking about always having a bottle of hot sauce in her purse, while she was speaking to a group of African Americans.


That was on the same radio show which is why the hosts are going “oh shit not again” and attempting damage control. Lack of authenticity is a killer in American politics right now.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:26 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
A good parallel is HRC talking about always having a bottle of hot sauce in her purse, while she was speaking to a group of African Americans.


That was on the same radio show which is why the hosts are going “oh shit not again” and attempting damage control. Lack of authenticity is a killer in American politics right now.

Unless your name is a Trump....


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:27 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
A good parallel is HRC talking about always having a bottle of hot sauce in her purse, while she was speaking to a group of African Americans.


I know what you mean (pandering), but just about anyone who travels, especially Americans seem to do this. Hell,I know one guy who had a custom leather holster on his belt for his bottle of tabasco.



I’d like to get one.


It wasn't pandering. She had done 2 or 3 interviews prior with white mags and such saying she always carried it around. But it was Hillary (so duck facts) and poor timing with the Beyonce track out and her being interviewed on black radio made it seem like pandering.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:33 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Expecting someone to know what they were listening yesterday to while stoned is an unreasonably high standard to hold anyone to, let alone 30 years ago.


Yeah but people know what sort of music they listened to. No hippy in the 60's claimed they listened to Abba or would be confused. Her drug comments where obviously pandering. Or regardless full of hypocrisy. It's as believable as Clinton's "I didn't inhale" or explanations for how he believed "I didn't have sexual relations with that girl" was truthful after a blowjob and inappropriate use of cigars.


I take it like, Bones you refuse to believe the words of interviewers or the video. They don't do interviews to clear the air on lots of stuff that goes on, on their show. However, they did on this one. Maybe it is cause Harris was black or maybe because they didn't like how their interview was being used to slander Harris.

Also a blowjob didn't count as sex as part of the rules of Congress at the time. Anything that wasn't intercourse was not sex. It was written by the men attacking Clinton as they wanted it as out for themselves and never planned on Clinton using it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:35 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
A good parallel is HRC talking about always having a bottle of hot sauce in her purse, while she was speaking to a group of African Americans.


That was on the same radio show which is why the hosts are going “oh shit not again” and attempting damage control. Lack of authenticity is a killer in American politics right now.


Especially because HRC was being honest and they didn't do anything then. So maybe they came out now to avoid the same mistake.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:41 pm 
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https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... io/479004/

Here is an article about the hot sauce incident. A few paragraphs down, it goes into how she has mentioned it before and cites where. I couldn't be bothered to cite the actual articles.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:41 pm 
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The thing is DT, Hillary’s moment wasn’t as bad as this one and people were still talking about it come election day. What’s worse is it draws attention to Kamala’s record as a prosecutor vs weed. So yeah I definitely understand why the crew went on TV to tell everyone their ears and eyes were lying to them.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:47 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
The thing is DT, Hillary’s moment wasn’t as bad as this one and people were still talking about it come election day. What’s worse is it draws attention to Kamala’s record as a prosecutor vs weed. So yeah I definitely understand why the crew went on TV to tell everyone their ears and eyes were lying to them.


You don't want to get it. Harris and her stance on weed and her work as a DA is a fair debate to have. If you are gonna question her "authenticity" then do it on that. You have the video and the hosts telling you what happened but you wanna disregard that.

Meanwhile Bernie never releasing his taxes is not hypocrisy. Gabbard having the sport of white supremacist is nothing and supporting conversion therapy is nothing. Strange view of the world.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:01 pm 
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The white supremacy smear is funny. She told one of them clearly that her dad experienced not being able to use “whites only” water fountains in his life and to fuck off. These are tweets mind you, not people walking around carrying Tulsi signs in real life. I mean Ed Buck donated to Kamala, should we start talking about why she attracted his support?

I get why people would be upset by the conversion therapy thing. But she was still young and following a belief she was raised with. Like I said I believe her gay rights voting record is considered “A+” by an advocacy group.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:17 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
The white supremacy smear is funny. She told one of them clearly that her dad experienced not being able to use “whites only” water fountains in his life and to fuck off. I mean, should we start talking about Ed Buck’s support of Kamala?

I get why people would be upset by the conversion therapy thing. But she was still young and following a belief she was raised with. Like I said I believe her gay rights voting record is considered “A+” by an advocacy group.



Go ahead and talk about Harris and Buck. I am not a Harris fanboy. I just think this is bullshit.

What I am trying to point out to you is because Gabbard and Sanders are your people, critical stuff is easily explained and them speaking on it is good enough. You don't like Harris so the radio show interview is gospel.

Let's turn the screws on Gabbard. So which is the true Tulsi? Conversion therapy or Voting pro-gay. I mean how do we know she didn't do the politically expedient thing on her pro gay votes. I mean to be part of the Dem party means you have to be pro gay, pro affirmative action, I would also say pro-choice but there are few pro-lifers out there? And why do white supremacists support her? She may not be one, allegedly, but they believe she is one. Oh but she denounced it so she is clearly not lying or is trying to avoid losing the minority vote which is huge for Dems. She maybe more conservative than she shows but you can't be conservative and win in Hawaii.

I don't care enough about Gabbard to debate this with you deeply. I just want to point out that you are choosing to apply logic to Gabbard that you are not applying to Harris, because you like Gabbard.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:31 pm 
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Quote:
And why do white supremacists support her?


Non-interventionism is literally the only reason. I haven’t looked into it but I bet Ilhan Omar got some supportive tweets when she went after AIPAC. But only a nutjob would accuse her of having the support of white supremacists.

It’s not Bernie/Tulsi or bust BTW. I would very much prefer one or both but Andrew Yang is also a candidate I could support. Should check him out if you don’t know him. Obama WH vet.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:12 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
Quote:
And why do white supremacists support her?


Non-interventionism is literally the only reason. I haven’t looked into it but I bet Ilhan Omar got some supportive tweets when she went after AIPAC. But only a nutjob would accuse her of having the support of white supremacists.

It’s not Bernie/Tulsi or bust BTW. I would very much prefer one or both but Andrew Yang is also a candidate I could support. Should check him out if you don’t know him. Obama WH vet.


I heard of Yang but he is not a serious contender. This is raising his profile to be a cabinet member. My fav Longshot is Buttegieg but he is also raising his profile to the Commerce Secretary or something like that.

BTW, so you are saying Gabbard wants us to fall back from leading the world like Trump and give power to China and Russia and Europe?
-I know she probably has a different view but if I wanted to stretch truth, it would be that easy.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Deadtigers wrote:

As for the Tea party, I don't give a duck what was being said here. I was talking about the media and how things were going on in America. I am sorry that was your only experience with America.



More deflection and selective reading, U said there where huge in the media. I even pointed to how involved Fox News presenter at the time was with them. Either way you are being dishonest or are clueless, the Tea Party was in the news more than SJWs are today


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:30 pm 
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I think it’s pretty obvious that candidates like Trump and Bernie and Tulsi have gained traction because the electorate is sick of sending American kids to die on the other side of the world while we can’t provide many of our people at home with basic care and services (sadly lots of them veterans). You run someone who advocates for Team America World Police vs Trump and that’s a guaranteed loss. China’s influence in places like Africa is mostly through bribery.

Yang’s star will rise. He’s just getting his ideas out there. It sounds like he’s going to meet the threshold for the debates. One of the better speakers I have listened to so he should do well there. Definitely brings more unique ideas than also-rans like Klobuchar or Gillibrand who are the 2020 version of Martin O’Malley.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:41 pm 
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Yang gets it :thumbup:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0XK8aGFyNFY


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:42 pm 
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Deadtigers wrote:
Bowens wrote:
The white supremacy smear is funny. She told one of them clearly that her dad experienced not being able to use “whites only” water fountains in his life and to fuck off. I mean, should we start talking about Ed Buck’s support of Kamala?

I get why people would be upset by the conversion therapy thing. But she was still young and following a belief she was raised with. Like I said I believe her gay rights voting record is considered “A+” by an advocacy group.



Go ahead and talk about Harris and Buck. I am not a Harris fanboy. I just think this is bullshit.

What I am trying to point out to you is because Gabbard and Sanders are your people, critical stuff is easily explained and them speaking on it is good enough. You don't like Harris so the radio show interview is gospel.

Let's turn the screws on Gabbard. So which is the true Tulsi? Conversion therapy or Voting pro-gay. I mean how do we know she didn't do the politically expedient thing on her pro gay votes. I mean to be part of the Dem party means you have to be pro gay, pro affirmative action, I would also say pro-choice but there are few pro-lifers out there? And why do white supremacists support her? She may not be one, allegedly, but they believe she is one. Oh but she denounced it so she is clearly not lying or is trying to avoid losing the minority vote which is huge for Dems. She maybe more conservative than she shows but you can't be conservative and win in Hawaii.

I don't care enough about Gabbard to debate this with you deeply. I just want to point out that you are choosing to apply logic to Gabbard that you are not applying to Harris, because you like Gabbard.


It's not about "your" people. It's you once again conflating facts and stories as if they are all the same, then trying to claim it's a identity politics thing as to why others have a different stance rather than any logical or rational thought.

Well it's more likely that a teenager brought up by an anti-gay dad would over time, decades later having been out in society understood thinsg better and changed accordingly. It's perfectly logical. Also her move to a pro-gay stance actual pre-dates Obama and Clinton when it became more mainstream. Gabbard was alreayd doing that. Someone who actually adopts a potentially unpopular stance is less likely to do it on false pretences for their political careers. It also follows her stance in meeting Assad, politically unpopular believing it was a positive choice in trying to put some breaks on the middle east problem. The fact is there is no reason to oppose Gabbard because she adopts these stances when there is no benefit to her career and the truth is on public record.

What isn't a logical timeline though is Harris' "I smoked dope to TuPac in the 80's" and then threw many in prison for it. First up there is a straight forwardly untrue. She has told an untruth which already shows her character as less dependable. That is why people call out Harris on her story. Harris is relaying a personal story that can only be designed to counter aspect of her public record that might be unpopular with sections of the Democrats and to soften her image. But in doing so told a lie.

And no none of these points are "Oh you just see it differently" as your usual counter to any and all rational points you don't try to conflate. Gabbard being pro-gays rights before it was a popular mainstream thing is a matter of fact. And it defies logic that if she was so utterly against gay rights she would have adopted her stances at the time when the bigger name and most popular Democrats like Obama and Hilary where doing precisely the opposite and being resistant to gay rights. It is also supported by the fact Gabbard was a teenager at the start of her gay conversion therapy stance which was basically adopted form her father. It's perfectly rational she grew out of those beliefs like the vast majority of the population have done.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:04 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
A good parallel is HRC talking about always having a bottle of hot sauce in her purse, while she was speaking to a group of African Americans.


I know what you mean (pandering), but just about anyone who travels, especially Americans seem to do this. Hell,I know one guy who had a custom leather holster on his belt for his bottle of tabasco.



I’d like to get one.


Image

Quickdraw speed holster.

I have soo many questions I don't want to ask.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:12 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
Bowens wrote:
The white supremacy smear is funny. She told one of them clearly that her dad experienced not being able to use “whites only” water fountains in his life and to fuck off. I mean, should we start talking about Ed Buck’s support of Kamala?

I get why people would be upset by the conversion therapy thing. But she was still young and following a belief she was raised with. Like I said I believe her gay rights voting record is considered “A+” by an advocacy group.



Go ahead and talk about Harris and Buck. I am not a Harris fanboy. I just think this is bullshit.

What I am trying to point out to you is because Gabbard and Sanders are your people, critical stuff is easily explained and them speaking on it is good enough. You don't like Harris so the radio show interview is gospel.

Let's turn the screws on Gabbard. So which is the true Tulsi? Conversion therapy or Voting pro-gay. I mean how do we know she didn't do the politically expedient thing on her pro gay votes. I mean to be part of the Dem party means you have to be pro gay, pro affirmative action, I would also say pro-choice but there are few pro-lifers out there? And why do white supremacists support her? She may not be one, allegedly, but they believe she is one. Oh but she denounced it so she is clearly not lying or is trying to avoid losing the minority vote which is huge for Dems. She maybe more conservative than she shows but you can't be conservative and win in Hawaii.

I don't care enough about Gabbard to debate this with you deeply. I just want to point out that you are choosing to apply logic to Gabbard that you are not applying to Harris, because you like Gabbard.


It's not about "your" people. It's you once again conflating facts and stories as if they are all the same, then trying to claim it's a identity politics thing as to why others have a different stance rather than any logical or rational thought.

Well it's more likely that a teenager brought up by an anti-gay dad would over time, decades later having been out in society understood thinsg better and changed accordingly. It's perfectly logical. Also her move to a pro-gay stance actual pre-dates Obama and Clinton when it became more mainstream. Gabbard was alreayd doing that. Someone who actually adopts a potentially unpopular stance is less likely to do it on false pretences for their political careers. It also follows her stance in meeting Assad, politically unpopular believing it was a positive choice in trying to put some breaks on the middle east problem. The fact is there is no reason to oppose Gabbard because she adopts these stances when there is no benefit to her career and the truth is on public record.

What isn't a logical timeline though is Harris' "I smoked dope to TuPac in the 80's" and then threw many in prison for it. First up there is a straight forwardly untrue. She has told an untruth which already shows her character as less dependable. That is why people call out Harris on her story. Harris is relaying a personal story that can only be designed to counter aspect of her public record that might be unpopular with sections of the Democrats and to soften her image. But in doing so told a lie.

And no none of these points are "Oh you just see it differently" as your usual counter to any and all rational points you don't try to conflate. Gabbard being pro-gays rights before it was a popular mainstream thing is a matter of fact. And it defies logic that if she was so utterly against gay rights she would have adopted her stances at the time when the bigger name and most popular Democrats like Obama and Hilary where doing precisely the opposite and being resistant to gay rights. It is also supported by the fact Gabbard was a teenager at the start of her gay conversion therapy stance which was basically adopted form her father. It's perfectly rational she grew out of those beliefs like the vast majority of the population have done.


Thanks for proving my point.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:21 pm 
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Bowens wrote:

Yeah he does. He obviously knows you've got to at least sound like you care, want to understand and want to try and do something to alleviate economic change and just not close the window in your elite ivory tower. Build a campaign on that and health care and a Dem candidate could go a long way. A much better platform than the hard left.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:26 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
I think it’s pretty obvious that candidates like Trump and Bernie and Tulsi have gained traction because the electorate is sick of sending American kids to die on the other side of the world while we can’t provide many of our people at home with basic care and services (sadly lots of them veterans). You run someone who advocates for Team America World Police vs Trump and that’s a guaranteed loss. China’s influence in places like Africa is mostly through bribery.

Yang’s star will rise. He’s just getting his ideas out there. It sounds like he’s going to meet the threshold for the debates. One of the better speakers I have listened to so he should do well there. Definitely brings more unique ideas than also-rans like Klobuchar or Gillibrand who are the 2020 version of Martin O’Malley.


I get your first point. I was just proposing a counter argument. The actual factual base of my point depends on how people feel about the candidate. As you can see with EDF's frothing above. Remember there were loads of clear logical explanations for Hillary's email which was dragged out into something massive but it wasn't as Trump has done worse. However, when you support a candidate it can be easily explained away. I mean it is clear to see and etc. But when you don't like the candidate anything from a gaffe to an inaccurate statement is absolute proof of fake and inauthenticity. So Tulsi being for less military intervention can be seen as a positive or be attacked as continuing to sacrifice our role as leaders of the free world, depending on if you like her. Same goes for the whole Harris lied and is pandering charge. No evidence is enough dissuade you, if you don't like her. I am actually indifferent to her, I am anti-Tulsi and anti-Bernie.


Last edited by Deadtigers on Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:24 pm 
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Bowens wrote:


Was very interesting on Joe Rogan. I like him


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:05 am 
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DT, I'll take a look at those soon.

Bowens, Yang sounds interesting. Would definitely be willing to at least hear more from him, even if I have some significant reservations about some of his proposals.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:34 pm 
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goeagles wrote:
DT, I'll take a look at those soon.

Bowens, Yang sounds interesting. Would definitely be willing to at least hear more from him, even if I have some significant reservations about some of his proposals.


Take your time. It is a lot for me to read too. It is also dry reading so that never makes it easy.
Bowens wrote:


Will give a listen when I get a moment. As I said, I know he declared but don't really know his platform as he is such a no-hoper, I haven't really looked into it.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:08 pm 
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goeagles wrote:
Bowens, Yang sounds interesting. Would definitely be willing to at least hear more from him, even if I have some significant reservations about some of his proposals.


He’s a blockchain advocate.

7000 new donations since he appeared on Rogan apparently.


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