NZ vs England - ODI Series

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mr bungle
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by mr bungle »

Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote: Crowe was his mentor, you berk. They were extremely close. :?

Er...yeah, I know - that's why I said I'm sure it didn't bother Taylor.

Having said that, and with the qualifier that I doubt many would find it offensive or a big deal, there's a bit of a difference between Crowe saying to Taylor and Cumming saying it on national broadcast. You can get away with some jokes with your mates or partner that you might not get away with to your boss or a stranger. So the fact that Crowe used to say something to Taylor in private doesn't necesarily excuse Cumming saying it to the wider public.
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

mr bungle wrote:
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.
No one was forcing you to defend Martin Crowe's honour either, dude.
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mr bungle
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by mr bungle »

Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.
No one was forcing you to defend Martin Crowe's honour either, dude.
I was sure joe punter making such a sensitive claim about perceived racism must have been unaware of their close to father/son relationship.
eugenius

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by eugenius »

The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

Remember when asked why there weren’t more Maori and PI cricketers and he said ‘they aren’t good at concentrating over long periods ‘ ?

This when at the time our top two golfers were Maori .

Very not cool.
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RuggaBugga
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by RuggaBugga »

Oh cool a race shitfight :roll:
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

mr bungle wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.
No one was forcing you to defend Martin Crowe's honour either, dude.
I was sure joe punter making such a sensitive claim about perceived racism must have been unaware of their close to father/son relationship.
I was aware, which is why I said I was sure he wasn't offended. Nor was I btw, it was harmless but I don't really see how making jokes about how another language sounds funny isn't a wee bit racist.

I'm not actually criticising Crowe, or Cumming for that matter - it's more a WTF, than actually being offended.

For reference, I made a joke about Asians eating cats the other day which was wayyyyyy more racist than saying Tuisi, Tuisi.
eugenius

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by eugenius »

Nah ...
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mr bungle
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by mr bungle »

Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.
No one was forcing you to defend Martin Crowe's honour either, dude.
I was sure joe punter making such a sensitive claim about perceived racism must have been unaware of their close to father/son relationship.
I was aware, which is why I said I was sure he wasn't offended. Nor was I btw, it was harmless but I don't really see how making jokes about how another language sounds funny isn't a wee bit racist.

I'm not actually criticising Crowe, or Cumming for that matter - it's more a WTF, than actually being offended.
Jay Cee Gee wrote: that still sounds a wee bit racist on Crowe's part.
Just shut the fuck up.

Good, ta.
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Tehui
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Tehui »

eugenius wrote:The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

Remember when asked why there weren’t more Maori and PI cricketers and he said ‘they aren’t good at concentrating over long periods ‘ ?
It wasn't the smartest thing Crowe ever said. It's best forgotten.
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Tehui wrote:
eugenius wrote:The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

Remember when asked why there weren’t more Maori and PI cricketers and he said ‘they aren’t good at concentrating over long periods ‘ ?
It wasn't the smartest thing Crowe ever said. It's best forgotten.
Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by WoodlandsRFC »

badmannotinjapan wrote:
Tehui wrote:
eugenius wrote:The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

Remember when asked why there weren’t more Maori and PI cricketers and he said ‘they aren’t good at concentrating over long periods ‘ ?
It wasn't the smartest thing Crowe ever said. It's best forgotten.
Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.
Poorly worded? What else could he have been meaning? Cricket to be fair, just isn't a sport that is popular with Maori or Pacific Islanders, it has nought to do with their ability to concentrate.
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booze
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by booze »

eugenius wrote:The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

.
That’s why he was our best batsmen.

Sounds like a load of shit. You can take the piss out of people except when their skin is darker.

Bullshit
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by badmannotinjapan »

WoodlandsRFC wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Tehui wrote:
eugenius wrote:The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

Remember when asked why there weren’t more Maori and PI cricketers and he said ‘they aren’t good at concentrating over long periods ‘ ?
It wasn't the smartest thing Crowe ever said. It's best forgotten.
Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.
Poorly worded? What else could he have been meaning? Cricket to be fair, just isn't a sport that is popular with Maori or Pacific Islanders, it has nought to do with their ability to concentrate.
Talk to Crowe and Rush. They both said it.
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by deadduck »

I reckon it's far more likely that the lack of top class Polynesian cricketers has more to do with access to good cricket coaching at a young age. There's heaps in the club scene, but for many it's deficiencies in the technical aspects of the game that prevents them from reaching the highest level.
For those that do end up in top sporting schools, rugby is more popular and has better pathways to success.
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Gordon Bennett
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Gordon Bennett »

There's definitely some ingrained institutional racism against Maori & pacific islanders in cricket that I've seen perpetuated at club level at the very least. That image of "they aren't good at concentrating over long periods" - i.e. heavily implying they're lazy or won't put the work in - seems to follow them around, regardless of their work ethic. A number of top quality players are ultimately lost to the game as a result.

That's why it annoys me when people who should know better continue to use those stereotypes in normal conversation.

I also wonder why the treatment of Ross Taylor, given his immense value to NZC and his position as one of NZ's best has been consistently shabbier than some of his peers.
badmannotinjapan wrote:Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.
Jesse Ryder too.
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Tehui
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Tehui »

I preferred participating in softball, touch rugby & athletics rather than cricket in the summer period during my youth. I thought i chose these sports over cricket because i enjoyed the competition and social camaraderie more, but all this time it turns out i was genetically predisposed to not being able to concentrate for long periods. How on earth i managed to complete 5+ years of full time university study is a small miracle.
eugenius

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by eugenius »

We all played softball at school.

Apart from one mate who was a rep fast bowler.
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Shrekles »

Tehui wrote:I preferred participating in softball, touch rugby & athletics rather than cricket in the summer period during my youth. I thought i chose these sports over cricket because i enjoyed the competition and social camaraderie more, but all this time it turns out i was genetically predisposed to not being able to concentrate for long periods. How on earth i managed to complete 5+ years of full time university study is a small miracle.
It should have only taken you 3 years, right?
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True Blue
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by True Blue »

Cricket is overall not as popular in Auckland as most of the country, and since a large chunk of PI's live up here they don't get the exposure to it. Plus I think it's just not seen as popular within their community.

Growing up in a diverse area (for the time) softball seemed more popular as a summer sport. I played softball myself, even made it to the North Harbour rep team before I couldn't stand playing for the filthy traitors but couldn't get into the Auckland team.
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Tehui
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Tehui »

Shrekles wrote:
Tehui wrote:I preferred participating in softball, touch rugby & athletics rather than cricket in the summer period during my youth. I thought i chose these sports over cricket because i enjoyed the competition and social camaraderie more, but all this time it turns out i was genetically predisposed to not being able to concentrate for long periods. How on earth i managed to complete 5+ years of full time university study is a small miracle.
It should have only taken you 3 years, right?
LOL. Includes post-grad bro.
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Mr Mike »

Gordon Bennett wrote:There's definitely some ingrained institutional racism against Maori & pacific islanders in cricket that I've seen perpetuated at club level at the very least. That image of "they aren't good at concentrating over long periods" - i.e. heavily implying they're lazy or won't put the work in - seems to follow them around, regardless of their work ethic. A number of top quality players are ultimately lost to the game as a result.

That's why it annoys me when people who should know better continue to use those stereotypes in normal conversation.

I also wonder why the treatment of Ross Taylor, given his immense value to NZC and his position as one of NZ's best has been consistently shabbier than some of his peers.
badmannotinjapan wrote:Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.
Jesse Ryder too.
Heath Te-Ihi-O-Te-Rangi Davis
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Enzedder »

Mr Mike wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:There's definitely some ingrained institutional racism against Maori & pacific islanders in cricket that I've seen perpetuated at club level at the very least. That image of "they aren't good at concentrating over long periods" - i.e. heavily implying they're lazy or won't put the work in - seems to follow them around, regardless of their work ethic. A number of top quality players are ultimately lost to the game as a result.

That's why it annoys me when people who should know better continue to use those stereotypes in normal conversation.

I also wonder why the treatment of Ross Taylor, given his immense value to NZC and his position as one of NZ's best has been consistently shabbier than some of his peers.
badmannotinjapan wrote:Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.
Jesse Ryder too.
Heath Te-Ihi-O-Te-Rangi Davis
He of the worst first over in test cricket.
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naki
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by naki »

Not a single one of my Maori friends at school played cricket beyond the age of around 11 or 12, and even before then we’d play rugby all winter but I’d barely see them in the summer. I didn’t analyse it at the time but clearly the real reason was that cricket is an astonishingly boring game that is a waste of everyone’s time and resources and the bros were just quicker on the uptake about that incontrovertible fact.
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Tehui
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Tehui »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Shrekles wrote:
Tehui wrote:I preferred participating in softball, touch rugby & athletics rather than cricket in the summer period during my youth. I thought i chose these sports over cricket because i enjoyed the competition and social camaraderie more, but all this time it turns out i was genetically predisposed to not being able to concentrate for long periods. How on earth i managed to complete 5+ years of full time university study is a small miracle.
It should have only taken you 3 years, right?
LOL. Includes post-grad bro.
If the low representation of Polynesians at the very top echelons of cricket was due to very slight differences in concentration levels that manifest themselves at elite levels, then that would say next to nothing about your specific individual ability to concentrate for long periods.
As you say, it's cool being a white guy.
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The Native
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by The Native »

Anyway, apparently Taylor was put though a fitness test today and was moving freely though heavily strapped.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=12009655
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by mrbrownstone »

The Native wrote:Anyway, apparently Taylor was put though a fitness test today and was moving freely though heavily strapped.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=12009655
Would love him to play obviously, but is it worth risking his fitness for the test series?
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by TheDocForgotHisLogon »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:Heath Te-Ihi-O-Te-Rangi Davis
I used to watch him play club cricket on Kelburn Park. By Christ he was quick.
He was like my brother off the tee though - hits a long long ball but more out of bounds on his own than the rest of the four put together.
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Enzedder »

TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:Heath Te-Ihi-O-Te-Rangi Davis
I used to watch him play club cricket on Kelburn Park. By Christ he was quick.
He was like my brother off the tee though - hits a long long ball but more out of bounds on his own than the rest of the four put together.
Stew Cater was better. Not as quick but more useful. Both were way better and quicker than I was
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Enzedder wrote:
TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:Heath Te-Ihi-O-Te-Rangi Davis
I used to watch him play club cricket on Kelburn Park. By Christ he was quick.
He was like my brother off the tee though - hits a long long ball but more out of bounds on his own than the rest of the four put together.
Stew Cater was better. Not as quick but more useful. Both were way better and quicker than I was
Yes, but did Cater sleep on the pitch at the Basin or play first class games under the influence of hallucinogens?
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by badmannotinjapan »

deadduck wrote:I reckon it's far more likely that the lack of top class Polynesian cricketers has more to do with access to good cricket coaching at a young age. There's heaps in the club scene, but for many it's deficiencies in the technical aspects of the game that prevents them from reaching the highest level.
For those that do end up in top sporting schools, rugby is more popular and has better pathways to success.
If they go to school with the whiteys and play cricket at those schools/club I'd assume they'd have the same access as anyone else, no?
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Enzedder »

At that age they are influenced a huge amount by their peers too - how many of you played a sport where you didn't have any mates?
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Think there may be more interest in the decider. Had the feeling from the start it was going to be level going into the last game.
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by brat »

Can’t believe the race card is out.. there’s nothing in what Crowe or cumming said ..end of

I don’t think they should risk him for this game, our middle order is a bit rubbish without him.. that said he might want to play and maybe ok so hesson is hardly going to refuse

At the end of this summer we will look at a test “series’ win as a much bigger achievement than 3-2 in the Odis imho

Latham is looking good, hopefully he and raval can carry on their good opening form
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Anonymous 1 »

badmannotinjapan wrote:
deadduck wrote:I reckon it's far more likely that the lack of top class Polynesian cricketers has more to do with access to good cricket coaching at a young age. There's heaps in the club scene, but for many it's deficiencies in the technical aspects of the game that prevents them from reaching the highest level.
For those that do end up in top sporting schools, rugby is more popular and has better pathways to success.
If they go to school with the whiteys and play cricket at those schools/club I'd assume they'd have the same access as anyone else, no?
And you read what he wrote :roll:
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Ghost-Of-Nepia »

Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:Heath Te-Ihi-O-Te-Rangi Davis
I used to watch him play club cricket on Kelburn Park. By Christ he was quick.
He was like my brother off the tee though - hits a long long ball but more out of bounds on his own than the rest of the four put together.
Stew Cater was better. Not as quick but more useful. Both were way better and quicker than I was
Yes, but did Cater sleep on the pitch at the Basin or play first class games under the influence of hallucinogens?
Or fudge an Alsatian?
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Anonymous. wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
deadduck wrote:I reckon it's far more likely that the lack of top class Polynesian cricketers has more to do with access to good cricket coaching at a young age. There's heaps in the club scene, but for many it's deficiencies in the technical aspects of the game that prevents them from reaching the highest level.
For those that do end up in top sporting schools, rugby is more popular and has better pathways to success.
If they go to school with the whiteys and play cricket at those schools/club I'd assume they'd have the same access as anyone else, no?
And you read what he wrote :roll:
:?:
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Andalu »

One thing to add is that non-Maori Polynesians don't make up a massive % of the population so to have Rosco as one of our premier players kinda shows there is not a massive under-representation at the highest levels. You'd expect in sports where attributes like muscle mass are not very important, that the representation of Polynesian New Zealanders would be closer to their percentage of the population.
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by Ghost-Of-Nepia »

Enzedder wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:There's definitely some ingrained institutional racism against Maori & pacific islanders in cricket that I've seen perpetuated at club level at the very least. That image of "they aren't good at concentrating over long periods" - i.e. heavily implying they're lazy or won't put the work in - seems to follow them around, regardless of their work ethic. A number of top quality players are ultimately lost to the game as a result.

That's why it annoys me when people who should know better continue to use those stereotypes in normal conversation.

I also wonder why the treatment of Ross Taylor, given his immense value to NZC and his position as one of NZ's best has been consistently shabbier than some of his peers.
badmannotinjapan wrote:Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.
Jesse Ryder too.
Heath Te-Ihi-O-Te-Rangi Davis
He of the worst first over in test cricket.
And Tuffey delivered the worst first over in ODI cricket . I'm sensing a trend here.


Bloody Maoris...
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J Man
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by J Man »

Seriously, who f^cken cares?

Let people play the sport they want to play - and then pick the best people for rep teams.
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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Post by jambanja »

Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.
No one was forcing you to defend Martin Crowe's honour either, dude.
I was sure joe punter making such a sensitive claim about perceived racism must have been unaware of their close to father/son relationship.
I was aware, which is why I said I was sure he wasn't offended. Nor was I btw, it was harmless but I don't really see how making jokes about how another language sounds funny isn't a wee bit racist.

I'm not actually criticising Crowe, or Cumming for that matter - it's more a WTF, than actually being offended.

For reference, I made a joke about Asians eating cats the other day which was wayyyyyy more racist than saying Tuisi, Tuisi.
Sorry but whaaat, it’s done all the time, quite often on tv or live in front of large audiences, quite often it’s very funny too. There’s been one particularly funny skit doing the rounds about two Scottish bloke in a voice activated elevator, trying but failing miserably to get it to work...racist bastards :roll:
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