Planet Rugby Forum

goose81 wrote:

Wilson's Toffee wrote:

goose81 wrote:Its pretty clear Putin's plan is to cause carnage in Syria to absolutely flood Europe with Refugees from the ME along with African opportunists to cause internal conflicts and destabilise Europe, hes doing a damn good job tbf

Jesus. A new madness ...

What other reason could he possibly have to keep propping up the regime, the only result has been condemnation and poor refugees fleeing the place causing huge rows between European governments..

He does not like to see the good doctor being bullied by the cruel West and her Israeli, Saudi and Turkish allies... He is a true democrat and a fair man...

Bowens wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:

Bowens wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:

Bowens wrote: That's not my intention. Again, I have worked with lots of everyday Syrians and have been humbled by their work ethic and generosity. I don't want their country bombed to rubble. A week ago we were going to leave Assad alone then a chemical attack? Sorry, doesn't wash.

Exactly. The handful of bombs that the US, UK and France dropped on Syria have reduced their country to rubble. Whereas the thousands that Russia and Syria have dropped have mostl been performing landscape gardening.

That's a pretty disingenuous take. This is the beginning in my view, I clarified that several times above. No war with Syria. No war with Iran. Assad killing head-choppers is fine by me.

Syria must have had the highest concentration of women and children "head choppers" anywhere in the world. Perhaps he should be given a small award for his contribution to ridding the world from the tyranny of 3 year olds.

This is kind of a throwaway line. Did you have something more to say? Any stats to corroborate that he is a butcher of women and children worse than the scum who sold tens of thousands of Yazidi girls into slavery after butchering (literally) their brothers and fathers?

So you are not even going for an "Assad is also a prick" line, but are a fully paid up member of the "Assad is the good guy" camp.

There isnt even any point sbowing you evidence is there - you will have seen it all before and dismissed it as lies, misinformation and western false flags.

Turbogoat wrote:

Bowens wrote: That's a pretty disingenuous take. This is the beginning in my view, I clarified that several times above. No war with Syria. No war with Iran. Assad killing head-choppers is fine by me.

That's a pretty gross misunderstanding, or misrepresentation of what has been going on in Syria.

I respect that you put yourself on the line but your political views are pretty clear. You think the thread about Saudi relaxing women's dress codes wasn't transparent? As well as your links to the corrupt Barzani regime? No thanks man. Not interested in what you have to say there.

Bowens wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Bowens wrote: That's a pretty disingenuous take. This is the beginning in my view, I clarified that several times above. No war with Syria. No war with Iran. Assad killing head-choppers is fine by me.

That's a pretty gross misunderstanding, or misrepresentation of what has been going on in Syria.

I respect that you put yourself on the line but your political views are pretty clear. You think the thread about Saudi relaxing women's dress codes wasn't transparent? As well as your links to the corrupt Barzani regime? No thanks man. Not interested in what you have to say there.

Bowens wrote:

bimboman wrote:You think the complexity of US foreign policy should be controlled by stupid people living 1,000 km from even an ocean let alone a foreign country ?

And there we have it. Another guy who thinks he's better than people. But by all means, go into a working man's bar in Chicago or St Louis and try that shtick.

how long would I have to give them to find Syria on a map ?

https://medium.com/@zacharygeorgenajari ... 200df8909d

"The 51st State".

Ja. Strange things abound on this earth ...

Bowens wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Bowens wrote: That's a pretty disingenuous take. This is the beginning in my view, I clarified that several times above. No war with Syria. No war with Iran. Assad killing head-choppers is fine by me.

That's a pretty gross misunderstanding, or misrepresentation of what has been going on in Syria.

I respect that you put yourself on the line but your political views are pretty clear. You think the thread about Saudi relaxing women's dress codes wasn't transparent? As well as your links to the corrupt Barzani regime? No thanks man. Not interested in what you have to say there.

Good grief, what a bizarre response. Your imagination about my supposed political stance is way off base, and even then still utterly irrelevant to your glossing over of the atrocities occurring in Syria. At least you confirmed that you're utterly close minded about this, no point in wasting any more time on you.

You regularly posted Rudaw links, what is anyone supposed to think? I don't think you're a bad guy at all, I have told you in the past how much I admire what you do. But ME political analysis? Sorry, no, it comes from an all too predictable place.

And if I'm wrong TG, tell me how wrong you think Saudi action in Yemen, interference in Lebanon, and antagonism toward Iran is. As well as the lie that Iranian militias were the cause of Kurdistan's independence collapse rather than Barzani's greed.

Bowens wrote:You regularly posted Rudaw links, what is anyone supposed to think? I don't think you're a bad guy at all, I have told you in the past how much I admire what you do. But ME political analysis? Sorry, no, it comes from an all too predictable place.

And if I'm wrong TG, tell me how wrong you think Saudi action in Yemen, interference in Lebanon, and antagonism toward Iran is. As well as the lie that Iranian militias were the cause of Kurdistan's independence collapse rather than Barzani's greed.

Give me one indication that you're even remotely openminded about hearing a response, because you're so keen on reading so damn much into Rudaw links (FFS!) that engaging with you on this seems utterly pointless.

FTR: Saudi is a pack of arseholes for what they've done to Yemen. Saudi influence/interference throughout the region is a cancer, and Barzani is a wit kant. There. Do you believe a word of it? Probably not, but at least we aren't discussing your attempts to whitewash the atrocities committed on Syrian civilians by Assad& Co, are we.

I'm glad you agree they're all shitbags. Which is why their enemy Assad shouldn't go anywhere.

Bowens wrote:I'm glad you agree they're all shitbags. Which is why their enemy Assad shouldn't go anywhere.

The enemy of my enemy is a f**king appalling foreign policy.

Are you able to at least state that Assad is also a shitbag for his horrendous indiscriminate attacks on civilians, or are you going to continue to attempt to deflect this? C'mon, your turn.

If we could turn back the clock, we shouldn't have deposed Gaddafi and probably Hussein. So while no one is trying to whitewash what Assad has done, he is a more reliable leader in the region than anyone who would fill the vacuum after another "Mission Accomplished" fuckup (Trump actually tweeted that a few days ago ).

I know we agree that Bolton needs to go, and I genuinely hope your job doesn't get any more dangerous as a result of his actions.

Bowens wrote:If we could turn back the clock, we shouldn't have deposed Gaddafi and probably Hussein. So while no one is trying to whitewash what Assad has done, he is a more reliable leader in the region than anyone who would fill the vacuum after another "Mission Accomplished" fuckup (Trump actually tweeted that a few days ago ).

I know we agree that Bolton needs to go, and I genuinely hope your job doesn't get any more dangerous as a result of his actions.

We should leave dictators that murder their own populations with chemical weapons just to carry on ?

Bowens wrote:If we could turn back the clock, we shouldn't have deposed Gaddafi and probably Hussein. So while no one is trying to whitewash what Assad has done, he is a more reliable leader in the region than anyone who would fill the vacuum after another "Mission Accomplished" fuckup (Trump actually tweeted that a few days ago ).

I know we agree that Bolton needs to go, and I genuinely hope your job doesn't get any more dangerous as a result of his actions.

So no. You can't say anything bad about Assad for slaughtering civilians. At least we know where you're coming from now.

Moving on, it appears that NeoCon Classic - John Bolton wanted to launch a massive bombing raid. Thanfully Mattis (the bloke with actual combat experience) was the voice of reason.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-seek ... 1523651589

if you can't access that one,.. try ... Vox. (Sorry)

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/4/16/172 ... ump-bolton

Libya has been utterly disastrous for Europe (and Libya, and most of all the poor sub-Saharan migrants who end up there). I definitely won't want anyone who disagrees in government.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-liby ... SKBN1GX1JY

Turbogoat wrote:Moving on, it appears that NeoCon Classic - John Bolton wanted to launch a massive bombing raid. Thanfully Mattis (the bloke with actual combat experience) was the voice of reason.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-seek ... 1523651589

Good article. Posted it earlier.

Bowens wrote:Libya has been utterly disastrous for Europe (and Libya, and most of all the poor sub-Saharan migrants who end up there). I definitely won't want anyone who disagrees in government.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-liby ... SKBN1GX1JY

The poor sub Saharan migrants that reach Libya are the middle class and wealthy in the countries they come from.

Bowens wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Bowens wrote: That's a pretty disingenuous take. This is the beginning in my view, I clarified that several times above. No war with Syria. No war with Iran. Assad killing head-choppers is fine by me.

That's a pretty gross misunderstanding, or misrepresentation of what has been going on in Syria.

I respect that you put yourself on the line but your political views are pretty clear. You think the thread about Saudi relaxing women's dress codes wasn't transparent? As well as your links to the corrupt Barzani regime? No thanks man. Not interested in what you have to say there.

Agree with this, the amount of garbage for sale over Syria is astounding.

Anyone remember the lesbian blogger in Damascus who went missing with security forces closing in on her home only to turn out to be an American man Tom McMaster in Glasgow. That narrative although complete lies filled the press back in 2011 when the head choppers paid by their gulf Arab sponsors were pouring into Syria to infiltrate the protests, cause riots and onto their real work sending Syria back to the dark ages.

If Qatar couldn't get the gas pipeline to Europe through Syria because of the regime, then the regime had to go. Problem for the gulf Arabs and Turkey was Russia had a naval base there and doubled down because it likes to be able to write its own cheques selling gas into Europe as well as its warm water naval base.

Pilot wrote:

Bowens wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Bowens wrote: That's a pretty disingenuous take. This is the beginning in my view, I clarified that several times above. No war with Syria. No war with Iran. Assad killing head-choppers is fine by me.

That's a pretty gross misunderstanding, or misrepresentation of what has been going on in Syria.

I respect that you put yourself on the line but your political views are pretty clear. You think the thread about Saudi relaxing women's dress codes wasn't transparent? As well as your links to the corrupt Barzani regime? No thanks man. Not interested in what you have to say there.

Agree with this, the amount of garbage for sale over Syria is astounding.

Anyone remember the lesbian blogger in Damascus who went missing with security forces closing in on her home only to turn out to be an American man Tom McMaster in Glasgow. That narrative although complete lies filled the press back in 2011 when the head choppers paid by their gulf Arab sponsors were pouring into Syria to infiltrate the protests, cause riots and onto their real work sending Syria back to the dark ages.

If Qatar couldn't get the gas pipeline to Europe through Syria because of the regime, then the regime had to go. Problem for the gulf Arabs and Turkey was Russia had a naval base there and doubled down because it likes to be able to write its own cheques selling gas into Europe as well as its warm water naval base.

You agree with his gross mischaracterisation of me? fudge, I hope not.
His suspiciously selective memory for anything he could remotely misconstrue as anti-Assad is actually a little concerning. His refusal to say a single word against Assad for killing civilians indiscriminately is more concerning.

Turbogoat wrote:Moving on, it appears that NeoCon Classic - John Bolton wanted to launch a massive bombing raid. Thanfully Mattis (the bloke with actual combat experience) was the voice of reason.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-seek ... 1523651589

if you can't access that one,.. try ... Vox. (Sorry)

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/4/16/172 ... ump-bolton

I read a good article about Bolton, which may have been posted on this forum. The gist was never served, happy to offer up other peoples children, is all for breaking things with no clue how to fix them. Lacks nuance. Spot on imo.

Sorry man, you do good work.

I agree with Bones the BS the public are supposed to swallow in this quagmire is astounding

Turbogoat wrote:Moving on, it appears that NeoCon Classic - John Bolton wanted to launch a massive bombing raid. Thanfully Mattis (the bloke with actual combat experience) was the voice of reason.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-seek ... 1523651589

if you can't access that one,.. try ... Vox. (Sorry)

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/4/16/172 ... ump-bolton

The star's didn't align for Bolton's people, looks like Trump played him well. Bolton (who is a lot more dangerous than Trump) will be gone long before Trump.

Bullettyme wrote:Are we talking globally or within Syria? I agree with you about regime change, however I don't agree that the choice for the Syrians is a binary one of Assad or Jihadists.

Ok, go on then...what’s the alternative?

https://mobile.twitter.com/PaulBrandITV ... 48/video/1


Makes sense.

bimboman wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/PaulBrandITV ... 48/video/1


Makes sense.

Corbynistas make fantastic telly.

Bowens wrote:

bimboman wrote:You think the complexity of US foreign policy should be controlled by stupid people living 1,000 km from even an ocean let alone a foreign country ?

And there we have it. Another guy who thinks he's better than people. But by all means, go into a working man's bar in Chicago or St Louis and try that shtick.

I’m not looking for a fight here but I think it’s fair to say that even a frightful barrow-boy like Bimbo would know more about Syria than the guys who buy freedom-fries.

You're good man. But Syria is on all our radars now, and with smart phones and social media everyone has access to info they didn't necessarily during Iraq 1 & 2. We have seen this movie before.

Bowens wrote:You're good man. But Syria is on all our radars now, and with smart phones and social media everyone has access to info they didn't necessarily during Iraq 1 & 2. We have seen this movie before.

Fair enough.

I also don’t think this is a uniquely US phenomenon. Guys are sitting bars all over the world doing something similar.

bimboman wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/PaulBrandITV ... 48/video/1


Makes sense.

She sounds exactly like the guy from the Life of Brian

bimboman wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/PaulBrandITV ... 48/video/1


Makes sense.

Vox Pop is truly the worst type of journalism and is all prevalent nowadays.

Oh for the days when that reporter would have followed up with a question about Harold Shipman or similar.

Bowens wrote:You're good man. But Syria is on all our radars now, and with smart phones and sociaml media everyone has access to info they didn't necessarily during Iraq 1 & 2. We have seen this movie before.

Is f**king frkightening that people prefer to believe hostile propaganda on FB than their own governemnt. And that they think that fabricated, bullshitting memes somehow give them the 'bigger picture' rather than obfuscating the truth as they are designed to do

message #2527204 wrote:

Bowens wrote:You're good man. But Syria is on all our radars now, and with smart phones and sociaml media everyone has access to info they didn't necessarily during Iraq 1 & 2. We have seen this movie before.

Is f**king frkightening that people prefer to believe hostile propaganda on FB than their own governemnt. And that they think that fabricated, bullshitting memes somehow give them the 'bigger picture' rather than obfuscating the truth as they are designed to do

Why don't you report him ?

message #2527204 wrote:

Bowens wrote:You're good man. But Syria is on all our radars now, and with smart phones and sociaml media everyone has access to info they didn't necessarily during Iraq 1 & 2. We have seen this movie before.

Is f**king frkightening that people prefer to believe hostile propaganda on FB than their own governemnt. And that they think that fabricated, bullshitting memes somehow give them the 'bigger picture' rather than obfuscating the truth as they are designed to do

FB memes? This is a pretty cliched argument. The people sharing those seem to mostly be Baby Boomers like Taranaki Snapper. I use Twitter to follow some independent media (who probably have better records when fact-checked than some mainstream sources). That's about it. Imagine being a big enough doofus to still trust people like Brian Williams on Syria after all that has transpired in recent years.

Bowens wrote:

message #2527204 wrote:

Bowens wrote:You're good man. But Syria is on all our radars now, and with smart phones and sociaml media everyone has access to info they didn't necessarily during Iraq 1 & 2. We have seen this movie before.

Is f**king frkightening that people prefer to believe hostile propaganda on FB than their own governemnt. And that they think that fabricated, bullshitting memes somehow give them the 'bigger picture' rather than obfuscating the truth as they are designed to do

FB memes? This is a pretty cliched argument. The people sharing those seem to mostly be Baby Boomers like Taranaki Snapper. I use Twitter to follow some independent media (who probably have better records when fact-checked than some mainstream sources). That's about it. Imagine being a big enough doofus to still trust people like Brian Williams on Syria after all that has transpired in recent years.

They're backed into a corner with all their bullshit, Bones. FFS, bimbo still thinks the Marxists want to take over the world.

Bowens wrote:

message #2527204 wrote:

Bowens wrote:You're good man. But Syria is on all our radars now, and with smart phones and sociaml media everyone has access to info they didn't necessarily during Iraq 1 & 2. We have seen this movie before.

Is f**king frkightening that people prefer to believe hostile propaganda on FB than their own governemnt. And that they think that fabricated, bullshitting memes somehow give them the 'bigger picture' rather than obfuscating the truth as they are designed to do

FB memes? This is a pretty cliched argument. The people sharing those seem to mostly be Baby Boomers like Taranaki Snapper. I use Twitter to follow some independent media (who probably have better records when fact-checked than some mainstream sources). That's about it. Imagine being a big enough doofus to still trust people like Brian Williams on Syria after all that has transpired in recent years.

Like who?

Russia claims 70% of missiles in attack were shot down. By old, defunct air defense systems ...
The laboratories were empty, long evacuated after Israeli airstrikes, years ago ... nothing going on there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEOoEwIrg0g

Can anybody fact check ?

Wilson's Toffee wrote:Russia claims 70% of missiles in attack were shot down. By old, defunct air defense systems ...
The laboratories were empty, long evacuated after Israeli airstrikes, years ago ... nothing going on there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEOoEwIrg0g

Can anybody fact check ?

You're too stupid to engage with.

bimboman wrote:

Wilson's Toffee wrote:Russia claims 70% of missiles in attack were shot down. By old, defunct air defense systems ...
The laboratories were empty, long evacuated after Israeli airstrikes, years ago ... nothing going on there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEOoEwIrg0g

Can anybody fact check ?

You're too stupid to engage with.

You mean you are too stupid to engage with me.
But I will not hold it against you ... such limitations come from God who, in His all wisdom, decided beforehand which will inherit this earth, and who will stay dumb.

Wilson's Toffee wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Wilson's Toffee wrote:Russia claims 70% of missiles in attack were shot down. By old, defunct air defense systems ...
The laboratories were empty, long evacuated after Israeli airstrikes, years ago ... nothing going on there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEOoEwIrg0g

Can anybody fact check ?

You're too stupid to engage with.

You mean you are too stupid to engage with me.
But I will not hold it against you ... such limitations come from God who, in His all wisdom, decided beforehand which will inherit this earth, and who will stay dumb.

, yes that's what I meant.