All Blacks Head Coach post-2019 - It's Foster!

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Grandpa
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Grandpa »

JPNZ wrote:So is the announcement this week or next? I thought Thursday the 12th was mentioned in the media
UK called a General Election on the same day so that they could fly under the All Black new coach radar?
Dan54.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Dan54. »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Dan54. wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
C'mon Izzy's Choice you got to do better!
He does remind me of a fire and brimstone and sinners go to hell preacher
Yep NZer, and like Izzy he pretty good at picking and choosing which facts he wants to use , or maybe to be fair only sees and remembers a small number of facts!
I'm not sure how my questioning the timing and fidelity of NZR's Head Coach recruitment process equates with the offensive bigotry of Israel Folau. Sorry, but I think you're both wide of the mark on this one. Btw, what facts did Folau use in his trolling of gay people?
I was suggesting that Izzy picked facts on his trolling on bushfires and drought, fact there are bushfires and drought!
I have no problems with you not liking NZRU's timing, or even your dislike of Foster as a coach, all I suggesting is you (and plenty others) seem to cherry pick facts in argument.
You said that Dave Rennie took over the same squad that Foster had and then won a couple of Super titles while seeming not to notice that he was able to add 4-5 very good players, and also had as assiatant one Wayne Smith who left after a couple of years ,about when Chiefs stopped winning titles. All I saying is I don't know who best coach is, but certainly not going to assume that one is bad because he had an unsuccessful team years back. You could very well more info than the rest of us regarding the process, and Henry and co's ability to select a coach with impartiality, so just tell us and we will know that you are correct!



And to add to that I fly out to NZ on Friday and I having to find someway to kill a bit of time whilst waiting :lol:
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Enzedder »

Dan54. wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Dan54. wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
C'mon Izzy's Choice you got to do better!
He does remind me of a fire and brimstone and sinners go to hell preacher
Yep NZer, and like Izzy he pretty good at picking and choosing which facts he wants to use , or maybe to be fair only sees and remembers a small number of facts!
I'm not sure how my questioning the timing and fidelity of NZR's Head Coach recruitment process equates with the offensive bigotry of Israel Folau. Sorry, but I think you're both wide of the mark on this one. Btw, what facts did Folau use in his trolling of gay people?
I was suggesting that Izzy picked facts on his trolling on bushfires and drought, fact there are bushfires and drought!
I have no problems with you not liking NZRU's timing, or even your dislike of Foster as a coach, all I suggesting is you (and plenty others) seem to cherry pick facts in argument.
You said that Dave Rennie took over the same squad that Foster had and then won a couple of Super titles while seeming not to notice that he was able to add 4-5 very good players, and also had as assiatant one Wayne Smith who left after a couple of years ,about when Chiefs stopped winning titles. All I saying is I don't know who best coach is, but certainly not going to assume that one is bad because he had an unsuccessful team years back. You could very well more info than the rest of us regarding the process, and Henry and co's ability to select a coach with impartiality, so just tell us and we will know that you are correct!



And to add to that I fly out to NZ on Friday and I having to find someway to kill a bit of time whilst waiting :lol:
Coming over to apply for your National Super? ;)
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guy smiley
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by guy smiley »

Dan54. wrote: You said that Dave Rennie took over the same squad that Foster had and then won a couple of Super titles while seeming not to notice that he was able to add 4-5 very good players,
Why couldn't Foster do that?
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mrbrownstone
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by mrbrownstone »

guy smiley wrote:
Dan54. wrote: You said that Dave Rennie took over the same squad that Foster had and then won a couple of Super titles while seeming not to notice that he was able to add 4-5 very good players,
Why couldn't Foster do that?
TKB & Retallick hadn't really emerged yet. Cruden was still with the Canes & SBW was still with the Crusaders. The 2012 vintage TKB/Cruden/SBW axis was a huge upgrade on Leonard/Donald/Sweeney, and a big part of why the Chiefs won.

Not defending Foster in the slightest, but it's not really a fair comparison. 2012 is the start of a new WC cycle, of course there's going to be squad turnover & new players becoming available/looking for opportunities. Just look at the difference in SR squads from 2019 to 2020.

From the Chiefs final match of 2011 to the final in 2012, only 3 players started in the same positions - Latimer, Messam, and Clarke. That's a pretty huge turnover, more than just 4-5 very good players.

Arguably this is all an even bigger tick in Rennie's column that he developed a new squad so quickly - but it's disengenuous to say he took over Foster's squad when in reality he added Cruden, SBW, Retallick, Tameifuna etc. & lost Mils, Donald, Sivivatu, Sweeney to name a few.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by guy smiley »

Accepted... but the flipside of all that is that it's a sketchy argument to defend Foster on as well. Those players didn't arrive fresh off the shelf ready to go, their talent had to be spotted and developed.

Let's face it... Foster's a dud.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by mrbrownstone »

guy smiley wrote:Accepted... but the flipside of all that is that it's a sketchy argument to defend Foster on as well. Those players didn't arrive fresh off the shelf ready to go, their talent had to be spotted and developed.

Let's face it... Foster's a dud.
No argument here. Foster had 8 years to build & develop a successful squad and failed. That Rennie did it year 1 is damning. Just pointing out that the 'same squad' argument doesn't really hold up.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Dan54. »

guy smiley wrote:
Dan54. wrote: You said that Dave Rennie took over the same squad that Foster had and then won a couple of Super titles while seeming not to notice that he was able to add 4-5 very good players,
Why couldn't Foster do that?
Because the contracting of players was changed in 2011.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Dan54. »

guy smiley wrote:Accepted... but the flipside of all that is that it's a sketchy argument to defend Foster on as well. Those players didn't arrive fresh off the shelf ready to go, their talent had to be spotted and developed.

Let's face it... Foster's a dud.
I not arguing Foster is good or bad, I just suggesting that we use proper facts, and saying he had same or was even able to have same squad as Rennie is just false, just the same as saying because he was shit in 2011 means he still a shit coach, people who know a shit load more than us will decide. If anyone decided on past records, Hansen would never have got another gig after Wales, but seems coaches do learn.
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booji boy
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by booji boy »

Dan54. wrote:
guy smiley wrote:Accepted... but the flipside of all that is that it's a sketchy argument to defend Foster on as well. Those players didn't arrive fresh off the shelf ready to go, their talent had to be spotted and developed.

Let's face it... Foster's a dud.
I not arguing Foster is good or bad, I just suggesting that we use proper facts, and saying he had same or was even able to have same squad as Rennie is just false, just the same as saying because he was shit in 2011 means he still a shit coach, people who know a shit load more than us will decide. If anyone decided on past records, Hansen would never have got another gig after Wales, but seems coaches do learn.
Hansen may not have coached at Super Rugby level but he was very successful at provincial level with Canterbury and we're talking way back circa 2000-2001 when the provincial competition was still a very high standard of rugby and not simply a super rugby feeder competition as it is now. He may not have had great success as coach of Wales but to be fair he was left carrying the can after Henry bailed following the disastrous fallout from the 2001 Lions series. He'd arrived intending to be Henry's forwards coach and instead ended up in charge of the whole setup. His win/loss record may not have been great but I remember his Welsh team giving the John Mitchell coached AB's a helluva fright at the 2003 RWC.

Rennie may have coached a superior squad in 2012 but Foster had 2004-2011, 8 years ffs, to develop a strong squad and he failed miserably. No way he deserves a shot at AB head coach based on his success as an assistant coach.

Peter Sloane is an example of an assistant coach who was hopeless as a head coach. He was successful as Robbie Dean's assistant at the Canterbury Crusaders but when he was handed the very good Highlanders team, finalists in 1999, they went from a very good team to very poor under his coaching in 2000. He was then handed the Blues franchise from 2001-2005. Apart from 2003, when Graham Henry was involved, they were dreadful. Even in 2004, with virtually the same squad that had swept all comers in 2003, they couldn't even make the playoffs.

I rest my case your honor.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by tubbyj »

Dan54. wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Dan54. wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
C'mon Izzy's Choice you got to do better!
He does remind me of a fire and brimstone and sinners go to hell preacher
Yep NZer, and like Izzy he pretty good at picking and choosing which facts he wants to use , or maybe to be fair only sees and remembers a small number of facts!
I'm not sure how my questioning the timing and fidelity of NZR's Head Coach recruitment process equates with the offensive bigotry of Israel Folau. Sorry, but I think you're both wide of the mark on this one. Btw, what facts did Folau use in his trolling of gay people?
I was suggesting that Izzy picked facts on his trolling on bushfires and drought, fact there are bushfires and drought!
I have no problems with you not liking NZRU's timing, or even your dislike of Foster as a coach, all I suggesting is you (and plenty others) seem to cherry pick facts in argument.
You said that Dave Rennie took over the same squad that Foster had and then won a couple of Super titles while seeming not to notice that he was able to add 4-5 very good players, and also had as assiatant one Wayne Smith who left after a couple of years ,about when Chiefs stopped winning titles. All I saying is I don't know who best coach is, but certainly not going to assume that one is bad because he had an unsuccessful team years back. You could very well more info than the rest of us regarding the process, and Henry and co's ability to select a coach with impartiality, so just tell us and we will know that you are correct!



And to add to that I fly out to NZ on Friday and I having to find someway to kill a bit of time whilst waiting :lol:
The most one sided final of Super Rugby was the 2009 Ian Foster coached Chiefs record 61–17 defeat by the Bulls. It was a pitiful performance similar to the All Blacks in the semi in that they lacked intensity, produced a bucketful of errors and didn't fire a shot but the scoreline didn't flatter them like it did the All Blacks, still a very similar team dynamic in the game.

Foster with the Chiefs (when they weren't complete shit) would get the Chiefs going well for a run of wins that got them into the playoffs then they wouldn't turn up in the playoff games. It was a pattern that repeated everytime they made the finals. Seeing the All Blacks manifest a similar pattern and Foster being pushed into a more prominent leadership role in this WC was worrying for the future if he gets the top job.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by jdogscoop »

tubbyj wrote:
The most one sided final of Super Rugby was the 2009 Ian Foster coached Chiefs record 61–17 defeat by the Bulls. It was a pitiful performance similar to the All Blacks in the semi in that they lacked intensity, produced a bucketful of errors and didn't fire a shot but the scoreline didn't flatter them like it did the All Blacks, still a very similar team dynamic in the game.

Foster with the Chiefs (when they weren't complete shit) would get the Chiefs going well for a run of wins that got them into the playoffs then they wouldn't turn up in the playoff games. It was a pattern that repeated everytime they made the finals. Seeing the All Blacks manifest a similar pattern and Foster being pushed into a more prominent leadership role in this WC was worrying for the future if he gets the top job.
:nod: :((
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Enzedder »

News conference at 1pm to confirm Fozzy is the man - with Plumtree and McLeod
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by kiwigreg369 »

In Foster we trust

(It’s a much harder sell to be honest....)

Really interested to see who is captain and the first squad reflecting retirements and sabbaticals.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by naki »

Enzedder wrote:News conference at 1pm to confirm Fozzy is the man - with Plumtree and McLeod
Image
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Wilderbeast »

Shirley not!?
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naki
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by naki »

In other news, Hamish Bidwell has continued his path of complete insanity over this coaching process. This is what he wrote today, and someone chose to publish;
How much could NZR gain from convincing complete outsiders like Eddie Jones or Rassie Erasmus to be involved? It would certainly give you more confidence in the man who ultimately emerged successful.
That’s right, NZ drafting in the coaches of two of their biggest rivals to help decide who should take over. Two people who will be coaching directly against the ABs in the immediate and perhaps long term future. Perhaps the most stupid idea I’ve ever read, and I don’t even have Oceanbreeze on ignore.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by mrbrownstone »

Just confirms the whole process was a sham. Foster was chosen years ago - should have had the confidence to just come out and say it.

I guess we'll really test out the theory that anyone could coach the All Blacks and be successful.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Wilderbeast »

Naki, in the same article he said Henry, Hansen and Smith was probably the wrong choice in 07 so yeah, he’s descending pretty quick sharp.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by mrbrownstone »

Stevenson said Hurricanes coach John Plumtree, Brad Mooar and Greg Feek are likely to join him, as well as Scott McLeod and David Hill, who are part of the current set-up.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/r ... nderstands
All solid choices, but hardly the coaching 'dream team' you'd expect given the emphasis placed on assistants.

Feek seems to have done well with Ireland's scrum, Plumtree has a successful & diverse resume, and Mooar has been successful with the Crusaders. Still, given names like Brown and Schmidt being thrown around, this seems like a bit of a letdown.

Also, didn't Moaar only just take over as Scarlets coach?
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by naki »

Wilderbeast wrote:Naki, in the same article he said Henry, Hansen and Smith was probably the wrong choice in 07 so yeah, he’s descending pretty quick sharp.
He might be genuinely mentally unwell
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by JPNZ »

Fosters name is everywhere on the news sites. Guess the canes better get looking for a coach
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by guy smiley »

JPNZ wrote:Fosters name is everywhere on the news sites. Guess the canes better get looking for a coach
All that means is a posse of lazy reporters have swooped on the same rumour.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by JPNZ »

guy smiley wrote:
JPNZ wrote:Fosters name is everywhere on the news sites. Guess the canes better get looking for a coach
All that means is a posse of lazy reporters have swooped on the same rumour.
Thing is, they are often right.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Auckman »

1.00pm NZT; 11.00am AEST; 10.30am Adelaide; 8.00am Perth; 12.00am London

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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by JPNZ »

Stuff.co.nz and NZHerald both reporting 3pm presser
Last edited by JPNZ on Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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guy smiley
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by guy smiley »

I’m landing in Adelaide in 5 minutes...

which will drop first? :lol:
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Wilderbeast »

The wait continues.

Feeling underwhelmed.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by guy smiley »

Sumo tweeted it’s a 2 yr deal.

Wankers.
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mrbrownstone
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by mrbrownstone »

Continuity is a weak reason for Foster to be coach. We had hands down the best team and 16 years of continuity and only won 2 world cups. Over the same period South Africa had 5 coaches an inferior team and got 2 world cups as well. The AB's have become stale and bland and Foster just reinforces that.
An interesting comment on Stuff - continuity only counts for so much.
merlin the happy pig
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by merlin the happy pig »

guy smiley wrote:
JPNZ wrote:Fosters name is everywhere on the news sites. Guess the canes better get looking for a coach
All that means is a posse of lazy reporters have swooped on the same rumour.
Usually one of them swoops (actually probably a tip off)
The rest of them just parrot each other.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Marshall Banana »

Here is Fozzie talking about his appointment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy0GdcS ... =emb_title

2-years.

Contractually he's not allowed to talk about his assistants just yet.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by mrbrownstone »

Marshall Banana wrote:Here is Fozzie talking about his appointment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy0GdcS ... =emb_title

2-years.

Contractually he's not allowed to talk about his assistants just yet.
Seems a bit odd given the emphasis placed on assistants throughout this entire process.

My guess is that Brad Mooar is still with Scarlets, and if earlier reports that he's part of the team are accurate, they have to sort something out there.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by eugenius »

Jesus H !
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by Auckman »

https://www.allblacks.com/news/ian-fost ... EU3cAP_8bU

The Foster Era has begun.

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That 1993 Waikato team now has 3 international head coaches.

- John Mitchell
- Warren Gatland
- Ian Foster

any I missed?
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by sonic_attack »

Oh well, ill give him the benefit of the doubt. He's had quite an exciting vision so lets see if he can build it being the big cheese,

Go Fozzie!
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019

Post by mrbrownstone »

sonic_attack wrote:Oh well, ill give him the benefit of the doubt. He's had quite an exciting vision so lets see if he can build it being the big cheese,

Go Fozzie!
Yup, not the choice I would have made, but now he's in the job I wish him every success & hope he proves us all wrong. :thumbup:
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019 - It's Foster!

Post by mrbrownstone »

With only a two year contract, the question now is what constitutes enough success to renew his contract? The squad's probably still good enough to achieve a ~75% win rate regardless of the coach, which is a marked drop but still elite by world standards. My fear is that would be enough to scrape a contract renewal, and then become the new norm.

I think two Bledisloe losses would be an automatic failure, but what if we retain the Bledisloe but lose TRC twice to the world champion Boks?

I worry that he's just good enough to achieve results that would look great for most other teams, but are mediocre for the All Blacks.
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Re: All Blacks Head Coach post-2019 - It's Foster!

Post by Caley_Red »

Am I right in thinking Foster's first game will be against Scotland in Dunedin (I think it's early July)?
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