Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

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Flockwitt
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Flockwitt »

assfly wrote:Marx, PSdT, Kolisi, Faf, Willie and even Kriel were good for me tonight.

Kolbe; whilst I admire his committment, he's a total liability. Like Ox said, like having a very capable child rugby player on the field. Unless you can dominate a tackle, don't bother playing against the All Blacks.

Flo was simply horrific. Utterly awful. Duane or Dan du Preez for me.

DDA. Where balls go to die. The try he scored, which was all thanks to Kolisi, have probably earned him another 10 caps.

Dyanti needs to learn how to catch.

Crap bench.
Normally agree with a lot of your stuff assfly but not about DDA in this one. Have another look at who was causing the ABs problems in the first half. When the game was tight he was avoiding or standing up in the first tackle and kept the Boks on the front foot constantly.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Cullen »

Flockwitt wrote:
Toro wrote:
Flockwitt wrote: Not good stuff from what was supposed to be a total rethink of the game management from a loss.
Completely agree on this one, but things don't always go your way and thinking an AB backlash was coming in an away game in the republic was over optimistic. They were well up for it today.
Yeah, it was hard to comment on the coaching perspective because the ABs made so many mistakes and had so little possession. But I didn't really see anything new, the plays were the same old same old and well read by the Boks. Could have been any number of factors.
A sloppy A. Smith, poor early tactical kicking (B. Barrett), early forward penalties and a midfield that didn't gel and knocked the ball on often all contributed to the first half. Just like Wellington where we said we won't see so many gifted tries I don't think we will see such a poor combination of errors.

Lots to work on and selection issues to work out.

How is NZ rugby so poor at hooker depth. After Codie and the injured Coles there is Harris, Coleman and Parsons x( Thought Risccatalli has more potential than any of the other 3
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Nieghorn »

Didn't see the game. Just watched the highlights. Did they check Taylor's pass at all?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PJ5rKG7QMY
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Frequent Flyer »

Well that sucked, but congrats ABs.

That last penalty on PsDT's tackle was crap. The ref warned him to put him down safely, which PSDT did, I don't think he tipped him past the horizontal, so it wasn't an illegal tackle to begin with, the ref still penalized him :roll:

That's what u get when u play NZ, refs literally invent new laws to accommodate them.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Toro »

Nieghorn wrote:Didn't see the game. Just watched the highlights. Did they check Taylor's pass at all?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PJ5rKG7QMY
No, not even a question. I couldn't believe it, looked miles forward live but then the replays they did show after the conversion weren't all that conclusive either.

Gardner blew his whistle just as RMo was about to start his kick run-up but he stopped him for something else and my sphincter relaxed again. :proud:
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Flockwitt »

Cullen wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Toro wrote:
Flockwitt wrote: Not good stuff from what was supposed to be a total rethink of the game management from a loss.
Completely agree on this one, but things don't always go your way and thinking an AB backlash was coming in an away game in the republic was over optimistic. They were well up for it today.
Yeah, it was hard to comment on the coaching perspective because the ABs made so many mistakes and had so little possession. But I didn't really see anything new, the plays were the same old same old and well read by the Boks. Could have been any number of factors.
A sloppy A. Smith, poor early tactical kicking (B. Barrett), early forward penalties and a midfield that didn't gel and knocked the ball on often all contributed to the first half. Just like Wellington where we said we won't see so many gifted tries I don't think we will see such a poor combination of errors.

Lots to work on and selection issues to work out.

How is NZ rugby so poor at hooker depth. After Codie and the injured Coles there is Harris, Coleman and Parsons x( Thought Risccatalli has more potential than any of the other 3
Actually Ricky played excellently through the start of the season and last season. But with both the other first choice hookers injured I think he burned out... he was poor for the last few games for the Canes. Still has potential to get there though.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by maxbox »

Cullen wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Toro wrote:
Flockwitt wrote: Not good stuff from what was supposed to be a total rethink of the game management from a loss.
Completely agree on this one, but things don't always go your way and thinking an AB backlash was coming in an away game in the republic was over optimistic. They were well up for it today.
Yeah, it was hard to comment on the coaching perspective because the ABs made so many mistakes and had so little possession. But I didn't really see anything new, the plays were the same old same old and well read by the Boks. Could have been any number of factors.
A sloppy A. Smith, poor early tactical kicking (B. Barrett), early forward penalties and a midfield that didn't gel and knocked the ball on often all contributed to the first half. Just like Wellington where we said we won't see so many gifted tries I don't think we will see such a poor combination of errors.

Lots to work on and selection issues to work out.

How is NZ rugby so poor at hooker depth. After Codie and the injured Coles there is Harris, Coleman and Parsons x( Thought Risccatalli has more potential than any of the other 3
Parsons would be serviceable
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Rugby2023 »

Very entertaining match.

Not much between the teams obviously but I do think NZ were a touch better over the ball, and a little bit more clinical in attack.

Still, in terms of this fixture SA 1-1 NZ is a good return for the Boks in 2018.

Competitively, the Rugby Championship looks in good shape at present.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Flockwitt »

Rugby2023 wrote:Very entertaining match.

Not much between the teams obviously but I do think NZ were a touch better over the ball, and a little bit more clinical in attack.

Still, in terms of this fixture SA 1-1 NZ is a good return for the Boks in 2018.

Competitively, the Rugby Championship looks in good shape at present.
Indeed, puts the Wellington game into perspective and a fair result for the season.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Toro »

Cullen wrote: How is NZ rugby so poor at hooker depth. After Codie and the injured Coles there is Harris, Coleman and Parsons x( Thought Risccatalli has more potential than any of the other 3
Aumua will be whipped into shape soon. :nod:
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Cullen »

Rugby2023 wrote:Very entertaining match.

Not much between the teams obviously but I do think NZ were a touch better over the ball, and a little bit more clinical in attack.

Still, in terms of this fixture SA 1-1 NZ is a good return for the Boks in 2018.

Competitively, the Rugby Championship looks in good shape at present.

At least it's not the return of the wallabies
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Couch »

I switched it off at 71min mark because i was so tired and tought for sure the ABs lost that one. Wow what a comeback!

Hard luck springbok fans, must be so gutting to lose that after playing the better game.

All Black's defence has changed since McLeod came on board, we are now sifting points through every game, we are going backwards and Read's captaincy is also questionable.
Last edited by Couch on Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Ted. »

Just watched the recording.

Welcome back Boks. Isn't it bloody marvellous. :thumbup:

Hard luck, that was a tough one to lose. The better team for all but the last quarter.

AB's fucking awful for most of that game. Horrendous, deserved to get their arses kicked. Read needs to reappraise his captaincy. Smith needs to look at his options and petulance. BB needs to reassess the game plan and not be a slave to what is not working. The Midfield hardly fired a shot.

So, Ben to 14, BB to 15 and Rutchie to 10. ALB and Goodhue. Bring TJ on sooner if Smith is flapping.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by mr bungle »

Rhinosaur wrote:
redhouse wrote:Boks are the better team. That last throw in wasn't straight.
Boks should've been down to 14 for the deliberate professional foul earlier. How far do you want to go back?
Back to the Louw shepard on Whitlock for the Le Roux break that lead to Kriel's try. :nod: As usual losing fans and others focus on every minor bad call against the loser.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Toro »

Ted. wrote:So, Ben to 14, BB to 15 and Rutchie to 10. ALB and Goodhue. Bring TJ on sooner if Smith is flapping.
Certainly deserves to be tried on the EOYT. But I'd keep Crotty at 12 and ALB on the bench with Flaps and Dmac.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Flockwitt »

Toro wrote:
Ted. wrote:So, Ben to 14, BB to 15 and Rutchie to 10. ALB and Goodhue. Bring TJ on sooner if Smith is flapping.
Certainly deserves to be tried on the EOYT. But I'd keep Crotty at 12 and ALB on the bench with Flaps and Dmac.
Richie needs game time as starter regardless. TTT needs a few runs also. There are more than a few work ons for this years EOYT.

I'd prefer to look at the squad as a whole and get everybody worked up. While rotation is a dirty word the simple fact is if the whole squad isn't up to scratch, you'll lose regardless. There are just too many injuries to be finding your first XV and sticking to it, and subs play such an important role in the modern game. The third stringers need to be ready, and good.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by mr bungle »

Frequent Flyer wrote:Well that sucked, but congrats ABs.

That last penalty on PsDT's tackle was crap. The ref warned him to put him down safely, which PSDT did, I don't think he tipped him past the horizontal, so it wasn't an illegal tackle to begin with, the ref still penalized him :roll:

That's what u get when u play NZ, refs literally invent new laws to accommodate them.
Like not yellow carding the Bok winger for an intentional slap down with an AB overlap, or ignoring the obstruction on Whitelock to open the gap for Le Roux that lead to the first try.

It's called rugby and calls go for and against teams every game. The best teams will cope with such adversity. But we'll keep pointing out such calls so whingers like you shut their gobs.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Bowens »

Agree. I saw no reason to complain about the ref. Calls went both ways - just human nature.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Auckman »

Just watched the recording. Africans should've won that one but failed to close the match out. Better team for about 70 minutes. I thought when they were cheering faf de klerk and that other guy off, that might come back to bite them. Thought faf was man of the match for all his minutes on the field.

I reckon Ben from Accounts needs to be the one that is subbed right off in the 2nd half substitutions. Hasn't offered much in the past three matches. BB to 15, Loftus Versveld te Mo'unga to 10, Goodhue to start when not ill.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Bowens »

Auckman wrote:Just watched the recording. Africans should've won that one but failed to close the match out. Better team for about 70 minutes. I thought when they were cheering faf de klerk and that other guy off, that might come back to bite them. Thought faf was man of the match for all his minutes on the field.
:thumbup:

The guy is a field general in every sense.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

mr bungle wrote: Like not yellow carding the Bok winger for an intentional slap down with an AB overlap
I actually thought that penalty was a harsh call on him - don't think it actually went forward from the slap down.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Auckman »

Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote: Like not yellow carding the Bok winger for an intentional slap down with an AB overlap
I actually thought that penalty was a harsh call on him - don't think it actually went forward from the slap down.
What is the law/interpretation on this one? I'm not sure but I mumbled "yellow card ref" at the TV screen.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Ted. »

Toro wrote:
Ted. wrote:So, Ben to 14, BB to 15 and Rutchie to 10. ALB and Goodhue. Bring TJ on sooner if Smith is flapping.
Certainly deserves to be tried on the EOYT. But I'd keep Crotty at 12 and ALB on the bench with Flaps and Dmac.
Yeah, I'm more than happy with that too, 2nd 5 is certainly Crotty's best position and he's more value as a starter than an impact player at this stage of his career.

I certainly wouldn't replace Smith with TJ as a starter, but really the Flapper monicker has passed on the Smith and had done so some time ago.

The loser would be Naholo, more than made up by having BFA on the park beside BB causing havoc from the back. When we are not running over lesser teams, we also seem to go so much better with a 14/15 on the park, too.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by booji boy »

That match reminded me of the great AB v Springbok battles of the 90's thst Fitzy played in. There were a few where the ABs were behind early and battled back to take the win late. :)
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Flockwitt »

Ted. wrote:The loser would be Naholo, more than made up by having BFA on the park beside BB causing havoc from the back. When we are not running over lesser teams, we also seem to go so much better with a 14/15 on the park, too.
This. Not that we're quite ready to consign Naholo to the rubbish bin, far from it, but for a tight game in the first half this could be the better bet.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by mdaclarke »

One thing about the Boks is that a lot of their players are young and will still be around in 2023. Not only will they be contenders for 2019 they may be even better in 2023.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Mr Mike »

mdaclarke wrote:One thing about the Boks is that a lot of their players are young and will still be around in 2023. Not only will they be contenders for 2019 they may be even better in 2023.
Tattoo time?
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by BillW »

All black's game management and tactics up until Mo'únga came on were abysmal.
B Barrett did some good line and goal kicking but his decision making and tactical kicking was woeful.
I'd kept out of the BB v RM debate up until now because I thought BB as the incumbent was doing a reasonable job and his outstanding footballing talent was enough to cover his shortcomings. I still do in some ways.
But Mo'unga has had three chances this year and improved every time.
If decision making and game plan management are going to be important to us we need Mo'unga to be the first choice 10.
Barrett to fullback.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Marshall Banana »

Re-watched the game with some sleep under the belt. Random thoughts:

- Sam Cane was our best player in the first half by streets. Kept us in that.
- Rieko was our best back in the 2nd half.
- Not sure why Crotty is getting so much love? :? Missed tackles + poor passing. SBW was meh - but I've never liked the BB/SBW 10/12 combo. The young guns in the midfield have looked the best bet.
- Ardie was into everything when he came on. Great to see.
- Ofa continues to get better.
- I thought our locks went alright. Obviously we miss the best player in the world, but the 3 guys out there did a solid job.
- Read was a walking penalty. He gave away at least 4, I think. :uhoh:
- BB's kicking out of hand has been poor ALL YEAR. I've bitched about this, and had hoped when he got out of the Canes it would be sorted - but nope, it remains awful.
- BB strikes the Gilbert ball much better than he does the Adidas one, when it comes to goal-kicking.

All in all, once Squire, Moody, Brodie, and Coles come back, the pack will be fine. Note here, Taylor is awesome - but he's running out of juice.

In contrast, our backline needs a lot of work. I'd play the kids.

For those "neutrals" bitching about the ref:
- The first 3 points the Boks scored came from a possession whereby Cane knocked the ball on. He did not knock it on - in fact it went backwards about 2 feet.
- Faf was allowed to take the ball back inside his 22 and kick it out on the full. Ben Smith was not happy.
- Faf is also allowed to knock the ball on at the base of the ruck before his team scores a try.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by maxbox »

Cullen wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:Very entertaining match.

Not much between the teams obviously but I do think NZ were a touch better over the ball, and a little bit more clinical in attack.

Still, in terms of this fixture SA 1-1 NZ is a good return for the Boks in 2018.

Competitively, the Rugby Championship looks in good shape at present.

At least it's not the return of the wallabies
And thank f ck for that :nod:
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by mr bungle »

Even though it was a poor pass from Crotty, excellent of Patrick to uphold his customary knock on per test.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by kiwinoz »

mr bungle wrote:Even though it was a poor pass from Crotty, excellent of Patrick to uphold his customary knock on per test.
The white Skelton.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Marshall Banana »

BillW wrote:All black's game management and tactics up until Mo'únga came on were abysmal.
B Barrett did some good line and goal kicking but his decision making and tactical kicking was woeful.
I'd kept out of the BB v RM debate up until now because I thought BB as the incumbent was doing a reasonable job and his outstanding footballing talent was enough to cover his shortcomings. I still do in some ways.
But Mo'unga has had three chances this year and improved every time.
If decision making and game plan management are going to be important to us we need Mo'unga to be the first choice 10.
Barrett to fullback.
R-Mo takes on the line better than BB. He's a better kicker + passer.

What do we have to lose by giving this a try?

10 - Mo
15 - BB
23 - D-Mac

If it goes to shit, then we can go back to BB at 10.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by brat »

Marshall Banana wrote:Re-watched the game with some sleep under the belt. Random thoughts:

- Sam Cane was our best player in the first half by streets. Kept us in that.
- Rieko was our best back in the 2nd half.
- Not sure why Crotty is getting so much love? :? Missed tackles + poor passing. SBW was meh - but I've never liked the BB/SBW 10/12 combo. The young guns in the midfield have looked the best bet.
- Ardie was into everything when he came on. Great to see.
- Ofa continues to get better.
- I thought our locks went alright. Obviously we miss the best player in the world, but the 3 guys out there did a solid job.
- Read was a walking penalty. He gave away at least 4, I think. :uhoh:
- BB's kicking out of hand has been poor ALL YEAR. I've bitched about this, and had hoped when he got out of the Canes it would be sorted - but nope, it remains awful.
- BB strikes the Gilbert ball much better than he does the Adidas one, when it comes to goal-kicking.

All in all, once Squire, Moody, Brodie, and Coles come back, the pack will be fine. Note here, Taylor is awesome - but he's running out of juice.

In contrast, our backline needs a lot of work. I'd play the kids.

For those "neutrals" bitching about the ref:
- The first 3 points the Boks scored came from a possession whereby Cane knocked the ball on. He did not knock it on - in fact it went backwards about 2 feet.
- Faf was allowed to take the ball back inside his 22 and kick it out on the full. Ben Smith was not happy.
- Faf is also allowed to knock the ball on at the base of the ruck before his team scores a try.
Good summary

I think the smith / B.B. combination can be lethal under less pressure, but combined under pressure- too many pointless kicks/ stupid decisions-especially B.B.

The whole dynamic of our backline improved once mounga came on, and it wasn’t just a tiring defence

He directs the game better, and has a more gliding / Larkham/cruden like quality putting players into space and setting the backline up in a better way- backline tends to flow rather than the sometimes static Barrett lead backline
B.B. played quite well - at 15
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Ted. »

OomPB wrote:
Chilli wrote:Well Done All Blacks.
They won't appreciate it because none of these posters played fot them.

Bunch of arrogant pose.
Suck on it long time, sweetheart. :P
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by UncleFB »

Damn we didn't deserve to win that match. What a pile of shit. BB with shitty kick after shitty kick and the midfield looking like they were both still lying on the physio bench. Forwards shit until the last 10 minutes. The ABs needed to be saved by the bench.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Toro »

UncleFB wrote:Damn we didn't deserve to win that match. What a pile of shit. BB with shitty kick after shitty kick and the midfield looking like they were both still lying on the physio bench. Forwards shit until the last 10 minutes. The ABs needed to be saved by the bench.
Still felt good.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by UncleFB »

booji boy wrote:
That match reminded me of the great AB v Springbok battles of the 90's thst Fitzy played in. There were a few where the ABs were behind early and battled back to take the win late. :)
Not for me, those were tight matches with two teams going hammer and tongs at each other with the ABs getting the win in the end. This match we were just utter tutae and somehow burgled a win.
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Re: Springboks v All Blacks - 6 October @ Loftus, Pretoria

Post by Tehui »

UncleFB wrote:
booji boy wrote:
That match reminded me of the great AB v Springbok battles of the 90's thst Fitzy played in. There were a few where the ABs were behind early and battled back to take the win late. :)
Not for me, those were tight matches with two teams going hammer and tongs at each other with the ABs getting the win in the end. This match we were just utter tutae and somehow burgled a win.
I thought it was the worst game by an AB team in years. Some of the credit must go to the Boks for this.
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