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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:28 am 
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zzzz wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
Thank God so many Remainers are available to tell us Leavers what we voted for. Not sure where we would be w/out this service.


We're just replaying what you said feller.

You've been quite clear that Brexit voters knew that no deal was an option, meaning that you think they were too wise to believe the Brexiteer claims that it would be an easy and profitable deal, because the EU need us more than we need them/BMW, prosecco etc.

I quite agree there were many reasons people voted for leave - all manner of issues - which is why claims like "Everyone voted to leave the CU and SM" are so laughable.

Own what your side has done, don't blame us.



This is Nobleman's "I am willing to volunteer as a fool to maintain the internal logic of my argument" gambit.

Thinking No Deal was unlikely is not the same thing as conditioning Leave on a deal. To think otherwise is to argue Leavers believed we should only ever be allowed to Leave on the terms the EU set. You only have to raise the proposition to recognise it is obviously false.

This "No Vote for No Deal" crap is just political gaslighting.


Your argument would have been stronger if there was a thumping majority for leave.

There wasn't - a few hundred thousand votes would have swung it the other way, never mind the clear demographic change in the last 3 years.

It's highly questionable to believe 17 million people judge that the most extreme and damaging form of Brexit is fine, and claims that Brexit would be easy were meaningless and can be written off.

The core Brexiteer argument from day one has been "will of the people". It's time the leading Brexiteers just admitted no deal is what they want and stop feeding us this drivel about democracy.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:29 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
Thank God so many Remainers are available to tell us Leavers what we voted for. Not sure where we would be w/out this service.


We're just replaying what you said feller.

You've been quite clear that Brexit voters knew that no deal was an option, meaning that you think they were too wise to believe the Brexiteer claims that it would be an easy and profitable deal, because the EU need us more than we need them/BMW, prosecco etc.

I quite agree there were many reasons people voted for leave - all manner of issues - which is why claims like "Everyone voted to leave the CU and SM" are so laughable.

Own what your side has done, don't blame us.



All the remain “side” has done is block any meaningful moves to leave. Own what your side has done Sam.


That is such a crock of shite that surely you don't even believe it.



Great detail there. You’d have to be wilfully stupid to think that business , Parliament and other state organisations have worked to produce the best leave deal.


The Tories had the numbers to vote through the deal that the Government agreed. You'd be in the sunlit uplands if this wasn't all about an internal Tory feud.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:34 am 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
bimboman wrote:


All the remain “side” has done is block any meaningful moves to leave. Own what your side has done Sam.


That is such a crock of shite that surely you don't even believe it.



Great detail there. You’d have to be wilfully stupid to think that business , Parliament and other state organisations have worked to produce the best leave deal.


The Tories had the numbers to vote through the deal that the Government agreed. You'd be in the sunlit uplands if this wasn't all about an internal Tory feud.

Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:34 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
Thank God so many Remainers are available to tell us Leavers what we voted for. Not sure where we would be w/out this service.


We're just replaying what you said feller.

You've been quite clear that Brexit voters knew that no deal was an option, meaning that you think they were too wise to believe the Brexiteer claims that it would be an easy and profitable deal, because the EU need us more than we need them/BMW, prosecco etc.

I quite agree there were many reasons people voted for leave - all manner of issues - which is why claims like "Everyone voted to leave the CU and SM" are so laughable.

Own what your side has done, don't blame us.



All the remain “side” has done is block any meaningful moves to leave. Own what your side has done Sam.


That is such a crock of shite that surely you don't even believe it.



Great detail there. You’d have to be wilfully stupid to think that business , Parliament and other state organisations have worked to produce the best leave deal.


Bimbo - you are another one who insists people cease to critically analyse the situation at hand and just believe.

Why don't you elaborate on this point? Simply muttering about remainer conspiracies and the Irish may satisfy fellow believers but it's completely inadequate as a counter argument to remainers.

If you're going to come back with "The EU offered a FTA but May didn't ask for it" then save everyone the time and don;t bother.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:36 am 
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bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
Thank God so many Remainers are available to tell us Leavers what we voted for. Not sure where we would be w/out this service.


We're just replaying what you said feller.

You've been quite clear that Brexit voters knew that no deal was an option, meaning that you think they were too wise to believe the Brexiteer claims that it would be an easy and profitable deal, because the EU need us more than we need them/BMW, prosecco etc.

I quite agree there were many reasons people voted for leave - all manner of issues - which is why claims like "Everyone voted to leave the CU and SM" are so laughable.

Own what your side has done, don't blame us.



All the remain “side” has done is block any meaningful moves to leave. Own what your side has done Sam.

We don't want to leave you utter fooking idiot! We're not lying about it, we never have.

WE
DONT
WANT
TO
LEAVE

There's no secret here. The point is that your side have lied, schemed and cheated, and you're still doing it. Meanwhile in the Remain camp, they're still staying the exact same thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:38 am 
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Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:38 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
Thank God so many Remainers are available to tell us Leavers what we voted for. Not sure where we would be w/out this service.


We're just replaying what you said feller.

You've been quite clear that Brexit voters knew that no deal was an option, meaning that you think they were too wise to believe the Brexiteer claims that it would be an easy and profitable deal, because the EU need us more than we need them/BMW, prosecco etc.

I quite agree there were many reasons people voted for leave - all manner of issues - which is why claims like "Everyone voted to leave the CU and SM" are so laughable.

Own what your side has done, don't blame us.



All the remain “side” has done is block any meaningful moves to leave. Own what your side has done Sam.


That is such a crock of shite that surely you don't even believe it.



Great detail there. You’d have to be wilfully stupid to think that business , Parliament and other state organisations have worked to produce the best leave deal.


Yeah....fúck business though, right.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:42 am 
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Quote:
Bimbo - you are another one who insists people cease to critically analyse the situation at hand and just believe.

Why don't you elaborate on this point? Simply muttering about remainer conspiracies and the Irish may satisfy fellow believers but it's completely inadequate as a counter argument to remainers.

If you're going to come back with "The EU offered a FTA but May didn't ask for it" then save everyone the time and don;t bother.



I don’t and haven’t advocated “believe” , I’ve stated it’s irrelevant to whether we actually leave, I’ve advocated the government plans for and mitigates the risks as best they can.

That large elements of the Parliament, and other organisations have tried to block brexit isn’t a conspiracy it’s a clear viewable recorded fact..

You’ve been driven quite insane by the vote to leave a “trading block”.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:43 am 
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Philip Hammond in today's Times

Quote:
The first is that to reject a no-deal exit is somehow to challenge the expressed will of the British people. It is not. In 2016 the British people were invited to vote for a Brexit with a deal, and by a small margin they did so. They were told that a deal to protect Britain’s trade with the EU — our largest export market by far — would be “easy” to do. To pretend now that 2016 Leave voters voted for a hard no-deal Brexit is a total travesty of the truth. As the BBC’s “reality check” had to remind Dominic Raab, now the foreign secretary, the possibility of no-deal was not “regularly raised” during the referendum campaign. Michael Gove put it best in March this year when he said: “We didn’t vote to leave without a deal. That wasn’t the message of the campaign I helped lead.”

So let’s be clear: as things stand today there is no popular mandate for a no-deal Brexit and no parliamentary mandate for one either. The hardliners may make the most noise but they are not the most numerous. Most people in this country want to see us leave in a smooth and orderly fashion that will not disrupt lives, cost jobs or diminish living standards, whether they voted Leave or Remain in 2016. Parliament faithfully reflects the view of that majority and it will make its voice heard. No-deal would be a betrayal of the 2016 referendum result. It must not happen.



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:44 am 
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Quote:
Yeah....fúck business though, right.



No, like you I think “business “ should have a casting vote over our Parliament.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:44 am 
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Leffe wrote:
bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
Thank God so many Remainers are available to tell us Leavers what we voted for. Not sure where we would be w/out this service.


We're just replaying what you said feller.

You've been quite clear that Brexit voters knew that no deal was an option, meaning that you think they were too wise to believe the Brexiteer claims that it would be an easy and profitable deal, because the EU need us more than we need them/BMW, prosecco etc.

I quite agree there were many reasons people voted for leave - all manner of issues - which is why claims like "Everyone voted to leave the CU and SM" are so laughable.

Own what your side has done, don't blame us.



All the remain “side” has done is block any meaningful moves to leave. Own what your side has done Sam.

We don't want to leave you utter fooking idiot! We're not lying about it, we never have.

WE
DONT
WANT
TO
LEAVE

There's no secret here. The point is that your side have lied, schemed and cheated, and you're still doing it. Meanwhile in the Remain camp, they're still staying the exact same thing.


I agree with this point mostly.

But I think the remain side could have made plenty of errors - we will only find out when we know the outcome.

Remain MPs could have got Common Market 2.0 over the line in the indicative votes. I can see why it didn't appeal as it's being a rule taker not rule maker but is vastly preferable to no deal and the WA.

Remain parties have only just realised that old ways of working don't cut it in our fractured politics. Farage just says "We're the Brexit party and we do Brexit". For too long the remain parties wanted to do their usual thing in the usual ways, including the formation of Change UK which then just splintered things further.

Corbyn is a Brexiteer not a remainer, but Labour are deep down a remain party. Corbyn's actions (such as abstaining on a vote to block no deal) have ultimately been endorsed on some levels by remainers. The discussions about a "government of national unity" are still screwed over by party politics.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:45 am 
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Quote:
Remain MPs could have got Common Market 2.0 over the line in the indicative votes. I can see why it didn't appeal as it's being a rule taker not rule maker but is vastly preferable to no deal and the WA.



They overplayed it convinced they’ll get a “people’s vote”.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:46 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Yeah....fúck business though, right.



No, like you I think “business “ should have a casting vote over our Parliament.



I found it amusing that when Matt Hancock was still a moderate he said his policy was "fudge fudge Business".

After discovering he actually loved a bit of "no deal" in order to keep his job, someone on Twitter pointed out that his policy was now "fudge fudge fudge business"


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:47 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Remain MPs could have got Common Market 2.0 over the line in the indicative votes. I can see why it didn't appeal as it's being a rule taker not rule maker but is vastly preferable to no deal and the WA.



They overplayed it convinced they’ll get a “people’s vote”.


Yes. It could be a source of regret if no deal is the outcome.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:47 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.

You do understand what the words "in good faith" mean when conducting any sort of negotiation, from the price of something you want to purchase, right up to international treaties ?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:48 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.


Therefore it was the Tories who blocked the UK from leaving. That is a fact. No lies, no misinterpretation.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:50 am 
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SamShark wrote:
Leffe wrote:
bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
Thank God so many Remainers are available to tell us Leavers what we voted for. Not sure where we would be w/out this service.


We're just replaying what you said feller.

You've been quite clear that Brexit voters knew that no deal was an option, meaning that you think they were too wise to believe the Brexiteer claims that it would be an easy and profitable deal, because the EU need us more than we need them/BMW, prosecco etc.

I quite agree there were many reasons people voted for leave - all manner of issues - which is why claims like "Everyone voted to leave the CU and SM" are so laughable.

Own what your side has done, don't blame us.



All the remain “side” has done is block any meaningful moves to leave. Own what your side has done Sam.

We don't want to leave you utter fooking idiot! We're not lying about it, we never have.

WE
DONT
WANT
TO
LEAVE

There's no secret here. The point is that your side have lied, schemed and cheated, and you're still doing it. Meanwhile in the Remain camp, they're still staying the exact same thing.


I agree with this point mostly.

But I think the remain side could have made plenty of errors - we will only find out when we know the outcome.

Remain MPs could have got Common Market 2.0 over the line in the indicative votes. I can see why it didn't appeal as it's being a rule taker not rule maker but is vastly preferable to no deal and the WA.

Remain parties have only just realised that old ways of working don't cut it in our fractured politics. Farage just says "We're the Brexit party and we do Brexit". For too long the remain parties wanted to do their usual thing in the usual ways, including the formation of Change UK which then just splintered things further.

Corbyn is a Brexiteer not a remainer, but Labour are deep down a remain party. Corbyn's actions (such as abstaining on a vote to block no deal) have ultimately been endorsed on some levels by remainers. The discussions about a "government of national unity" are still screwed over by party politics.

Lots of people want differing thisngs or will accept different things.

I do not want any form of this BS, undemocratic, illegal, immoral Brexit.

I will not support any hybrid. It's remain or HB for me.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:50 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.

You do understand what the words "in good faith" mean when conducting any sort of negotiation, from the price of something you want to purchase, right up to international treaties ?



In good faith has nothing to do with the process having to be approved by Parliament. I negotiated deals in good faith for a living, I couldn’t force either side to change their corporate approval processes to make my good faith any more than it was.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:51 am 
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I doubt if many who voted to leave thought they were voting for a specific form departure.

Some will have, but most will have voted emotionally rather than rationally that the UK would somehow be better off once the EU shackles had been shaken off. Most people, in this as in other things, just take the word of those whom they believe without question. So without understanding the possibilities, they accepted that we'd get option A which would be fine, and if we did not get option A, B would be fine as well, then there was always C which was just as good.

Arguing whether people voted for a specific form of BREXIT is a red herring in my opinion. People voted for an outcome, not a process. So if a process does not deliver the outcome they expected, it inherently becomes what they did not vote for.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:51 am 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.


Therefore it was the Tories who blocked the UK from leaving. That is a fact. No lies, no misinterpretation.



Greive , Letwin, Clarke

I agree.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:54 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.

You do understand what the words "in good faith" mean when conducting any sort of negotiation, from the price of something you want to purchase, right up to international treaties ?


Not a concept they are aware of regardless of it's legal standing in contract law. Mala fides and perfidy more up Brexiteers street.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:54 am 
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zzzz wrote:

This is Nobleman's "I am willing to volunteer as a fool to maintain the internal logic of my argument" gambit.

Thinking No Deal was unlikely is not the same thing as conditioning Leave on a deal. To think otherwise is to argue Leavers believed we should only ever be allowed to Leave on the terms the EU set. You only have to raise the proposition to recognise it is obviously false.

This "No Vote for No Deal" crap is just political gaslighting.


The bolded bit is truly bewildering!

You seem to be suggesting that any deal is, by its very nature, a screwing of the UK by the EU!!!! It is just utter utter nonsense.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:57 am 
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The Sun God wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.

You do understand what the words "in good faith" mean when conducting any sort of negotiation, from the price of something you want to purchase, right up to international treaties ?


Not a concept they are aware of regardless of it's legal standing in contract law. Mala fides and perfidy more up Brexiteers street.



I’m negotiating in good faith on behalf of a deal that needs subsequent board approval.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:57 am 
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bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.

You do understand what the words "in good faith" mean when conducting any sort of negotiation, from the price of something you want to purchase, right up to international treaties ?



In good faith has nothing to do with the process having to be approved by Parliament. I negotiated deals in good faith for a living, I couldn’t force either side to change their corporate approval processes to make my good faith any more than it was.

Why would the EU go back into negotiations with a country that clearly has reneged on that "good faith" ?

As pointed out above, it was the Tories, and their paid for stooges, who ensured the WA was voted down, the same Tory party that May led, and was the government party. The problem was/is a UK one.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:58 am 
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PornDog wrote:
zzzz wrote:

This is Nobleman's "I am willing to volunteer as a fool to maintain the internal logic of my argument" gambit.

Thinking No Deal was unlikely is not the same thing as conditioning Leave on a deal. To think otherwise is to argue Leavers believed we should only ever be allowed to Leave on the terms the EU set. You only have to raise the proposition to recognise it is obviously false.

This "No Vote for No Deal" crap is just political gaslighting.


The bolded bit is truly bewildering!

You seem to be suggesting that any deal is, by its very nature, a screwing of the UK by the EU!!!! It is just utter utter nonsense.



It’s the logical extension of we will only leave on there being a deal. It’s like leaving DFS with a full price sofa.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:59 am 
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bimboman wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.

You do understand what the words "in good faith" mean when conducting any sort of negotiation, from the price of something you want to purchase, right up to international treaties ?


Not a concept they are aware of regardless of it's legal standing in contract law. Mala fides and perfidy more up Brexiteers street.



I’m negotiating in good faith on behalf of a deal that needs subsequent board approval.

There may well be a very good reason for that, Bimbo.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:59 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.

You do understand what the words "in good faith" mean when conducting any sort of negotiation, from the price of something you want to purchase, right up to international treaties ?



In good faith has nothing to do with the process having to be approved by Parliament. I negotiated deals in good faith for a living, I couldn’t force either side to change their corporate approval processes to make my good faith any more than it was.

Why would the EU go back into negotiations with a country that clearly has reneged on that "good faith" ?

As pointed out above, it was the Tories, and their paid for stooges, who ensured the WA was voted down, the same Tory party that May led, and was the government party. The problem was/is a UK one.



Reneged = had a Parliamentary vote.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:00 am 
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Edinburgh01 wrote:
I doubt if many who voted to leave thought they were voting for a specific form departure.

Some will have, but most will have voted emotionally rather than rationally that the UK would somehow be better off once the EU shackles had been shaken off. Most people, in this as in other things, just take the word of those whom they believe without question. So without understanding the possibilities, they accepted that we'd get option A which would be fine, and if we did not get option A, B would be fine as well, then there was always C which was just as good.

Arguing whether people voted for a specific form of BREXIT is a red herring in my opinion. People voted for an outcome, not a process. So if a process does not deliver the outcome they expected, it inherently becomes what they did not vote for.


A well made point but as always there's lots of nuance.

One could find your point compelling and therefore accept no deal.

Or you can find it compelling and demand to know why May's deal was opposed by prominent Brexiteers.

Or demand to know where our red lines came from.

Either people voted for a form of Brexit or they didn't.

Maybe we should ask the people for clarification in these circumstances (yes, I know, they would betray themselves so we can't)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:01 am 
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Lets face it - the Brexit party was able to flourish because Tory Brexiteers had told the world that May's deal was vassal state betrayal.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:02 am 
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bimboman wrote:
PornDog wrote:
zzzz wrote:

This is Nobleman's "I am willing to volunteer as a fool to maintain the internal logic of my argument" gambit.

Thinking No Deal was unlikely is not the same thing as conditioning Leave on a deal. To think otherwise is to argue Leavers believed we should only ever be allowed to Leave on the terms the EU set. You only have to raise the proposition to recognise it is obviously false.

This "No Vote for No Deal" crap is just political gaslighting.


The bolded bit is truly bewildering!

You seem to be suggesting that any deal is, by its very nature, a screwing of the UK by the EU!!!! It is just utter utter nonsense.



It’s the logical extension of we will only leave on there being a deal. It’s like leaving DFS with a full price sofa.

The shape of the deal was created by the UKs red lines. Nothing has changed since the EU published this :

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:02 am 
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bimboman wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Just for the record, the British government not only agreed the deal but negotiated it with the EU in good faith.


And it was known that it would have to pass parliament, and there’s no agreement until the vote passed the deal into British Law. Why you keep misrepresenting these facts is beyond most by now.

You do understand what the words "in good faith" mean when conducting any sort of negotiation, from the price of something you want to purchase, right up to international treaties ?


Not a concept they are aware of regardless of it's legal standing in contract law. Mala fides and perfidy more up Brexiteers street.



I’m negotiating in good faith on behalf of a deal that needs subsequent board approval.


By the very nature of the board shooting it down, perhaps you were out of your depth to begin with.....Not something we see often from the leaders of government.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:02 am 
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SamShark wrote:
Lets face it - the Brexit party was able to flourish because Tory Brexiteers had told the world that May's deal was vassal state betrayal.



Well it was .


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:04 am 
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By the very nature of the board shooting it down, perhaps you were out of your depth to begin with.....Not something we see often from the leaders of government.





Oh May pleaded with parliament on the EU’s behalf. She did her best.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:05 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
PornDog wrote:
zzzz wrote:

This is Nobleman's "I am willing to volunteer as a fool to maintain the internal logic of my argument" gambit.

Thinking No Deal was unlikely is not the same thing as conditioning Leave on a deal. To think otherwise is to argue Leavers believed we should only ever be allowed to Leave on the terms the EU set. You only have to raise the proposition to recognise it is obviously false.

This "No Vote for No Deal" crap is just political gaslighting.


The bolded bit is truly bewildering!

You seem to be suggesting that any deal is, by its very nature, a screwing of the UK by the EU!!!! It is just utter utter nonsense.



It’s the logical extension of we will only leave on there being a deal. It’s like leaving DFS with a full price sofa.

The shape of the deal was created by the UKs red lines. Nothing has changed since the EU published this :

Image


This is where "offered us an FTA" came from, so lets be clear that we could always have had a FTA ONLY provided there were seperate arrangements for NI.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:06 am 
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This is where "offered us an FTA" came from, so lets be clear that we could always have had a FTA ONLY provided there were seperate arrangements for NI.



An EU red line ? Who’d a thought it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:08 am 
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Santa wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:

Cromwell was a fucking hero

A young earther fundamentalist protestant who believed that Catholics should be helped on their way to hell.

Now, whoever else holds firm to those principles ?


He did what he had to do for the greater good. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs. Or a nation of them.


What a very Seneca thing to say


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:08 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
This is where "offered us an FTA" came from, so lets be clear that we could always have had a FTA ONLY provided there were seperate arrangements for NI.



An EU red line ? Who’d a thought it.


Another Brexiteer who thinks only the UK is allowed politics and red lines.

You were told plenty of times that we wouldn't push the EU around.

1 vs 27 is pretty f**king stark.

BMW wasn't as important as the entire project after all


Last edited by SamShark on Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:10 am 
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bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Lets face it - the Brexit party was able to flourish because Tory Brexiteers had told the world that May's deal was vassal state betrayal.



Well it was .


No it wasn't!

Yes it was!

:roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:16 am 
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You're all worse for engaging with him.

Man is Rupert Murdochs wet dream .


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:17 am 
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SamShark wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
This is where "offered us an FTA" came from, so lets be clear that we could always have had a FTA ONLY provided there were seperate arrangements for NI.



An EU red line ? Who’d a thought it.


Another Brexiteer who thinks only the UK is allowed politics and red lines.

You were told plenty of times that we wouldn't push the EU around.

1 vs 27 is pretty f**king stark.

BMW wasn't as important as the entire project after all



But you and others have only held British red lines as being responsible for a no deal.


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