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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:48 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK


0.9260/0.9265.......and 0.2% GDP contraction in the second quarter. Hardly stellar.


And double Germany's 0.1% contraction


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
zzzz wrote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .



In 2017 we still didn't know the full effects of Brexit - or more likely the Brexiteers were shouting so loudly no-one else could be heard - or the only real Party who are Pro-Remain (Lib Dems) were barely alive. So people voted on traditional party lines like usual.

Tory and Labour MPs were just interested in their own necks in 2017, not the country....so of course everyone was Pro Brexit in 2017.

This silly.

You may not like why the main parties took the stance they did, but the reality is they had no choice but to embrace Brexit or be wiped out and their manifestos reflect that.



Elections have consequences. You may not like them, but they do.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:51 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

Let's see the figures in September and whether we're slipping into a recession before you start crowing.


Not crowing, just saying it’s not all doom and gloom and only U.K. will suffer as remoaners love to claim
Fall in GBP? Makes it cheaper for foreign firms to employ people in the U.K.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:51 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .

The majority of those votes were cast for a party with a manifesto committment that "No Deal is better than a bad deal" and who repeated that phrase ad nauseum thro the election cycle.

Like I say: this is political gaslighting.


Well that is a straight out bare faced lie. Link and quote provided as proof

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/

Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.


No it isn't. Read what I wrote.


I bolded and underlined your lie just to make it clear to you. The Labour manifesto does not contain a commitment that "No deal is better than a bad deal". So stop lying


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:53 pm 
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backrow wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

Let's see the figures in September and whether we're slipping into a recession before you start crowing.


Not crowing, just saying it’s not all doom and gloom and only U.K. will suffer as remoaners love to claim
Fall in GBP? Makes it cheaper for foreign firms to employ people in the U.K.



Building the warehouses you don't need?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:54 pm 
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iarmhiman wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK


Oh sure everything will be rosy.

Nothing to worry about at all

No mention of the huge inflation increase i note.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:54 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Tory Manifesto
Quote:
We will seek a deep and special partnership including a comprehensive free trade and customs agreement.


So lets just leave the PATHEITC attempt to claim the 2017 general election as a mandate for no deal.



You seek to understand simple issues. Doesn't mean you will.


We know we engage with you at the risk you may not be exactly graced with the sunshine of comprehension.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:57 pm 
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sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:
sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .

The majority of those votes were cast for a party with a manifesto committment that "No Deal is better than a bad deal" and who repeated that phrase ad nauseum thro the election cycle.

Like I say: this is political gaslighting.


Well that is a straight out bare faced lie. Link and quote provided as proof

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/

Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.


No it isn't. Read what I wrote.


I bolded and underlined your lie just to make it clear to you. The Labour manifesto does not contain a commitment that "No deal is better than a bad deal". So stop lying


Again, read what I wrote


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:00 pm 
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SamShark wrote:
Quote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .


This isn't a serious point and it's beneath you.

Why that backs your no deal argument, is even more mysterious.



It was responsive to your point that you think Brexit only has a slim majority. A lot of people like to forget the Gen Elec.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:01 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
sewa wrote:

I bolded and underlined your lie just to make it clear to you. The Labour manifesto does not contain a commitment that "No deal is better than a bad deal". So stop lying


Again, read what I wrote


I read what you wrote and I put up a link proving its a lie. You can say whatever you like about Mullets posting but he doesn't deliberately post lies


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:03 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

Let's see the figures in September and whether we're slipping into a recession before you start crowing.

Also, about a million of them are zero hours contract "jobs", which skews the figures somewhat.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:04 pm 
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sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:
sewa wrote:

I bolded and underlined your lie just to make it clear to you. The Labour manifesto does not contain a commitment that "No deal is better than a bad deal". So stop lying


Again, read what I wrote


I read what you wrote and I put up a link proving its a lie. You can say whatever you like about Mullets posting but he doesn't deliberately post lies



Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:06 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK



Perhaps you missed the part about your economy contracting this quarter and only avoiding contracting last quarter because of stockpile purchasing.

Your news "today" about Germany is also over a week old.

But well done Gordon Gekko.


Or that inflation hit 2.1%...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:07 pm 
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zzzz wrote:

Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


The Tories got 42.4% of the vote, in what world is that a majority?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:13 pm 
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backrow wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

Let's see the figures in September and whether we're slipping into a recession before you start crowing.


Not crowing, just saying it’s not all doom and gloom and only U.K. will suffer as remoaners love to claim
Fall in GBP? Makes it cheaper for foreign firms to employ people in the U.K.

That's right Prof. Silver linings to becoming poorer, eh?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:13 pm 
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sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


The Tories got 42.4% of the vote, in what world is that a majority?


It's a majority of 80% as he mentioned originally....... forget the other 20% of the electorate as it's inconvenient..


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:19 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


The Tories got 42.4% of the vote, in what world is that a majority?


It's a majority of 80% as he mentioned originally....... forget the other 20% of the electorate as it's inconvenient..


What % of the 42.4% hadn't a clue what was in the manifesto or what the politicians were saying as they just vote Tory every time regardless


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:19 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Elections have consequences. You may not like them, but they do.

Most of the 2017 votes were for parties that ruled out no deal, about 55%. Using general election votes to make a point doesn't really work though, there's too many other variables.

Arguing over how legitimate no deal is seems besides the point. The October 31st date, isn't really being used against the EU. Because the UK can leave any time it wants with no deal. The EU isn't going to give concessions at the last minute, because what the UK is demanding is so far removed from the current WA (the EU view the WA itself as a concession), it would require an Article 50 extension to renegotiate which can only be asked for by Johnson.

This is like May's tenure on repeat, in a shorter time frame. First there was the baseless optimism, then the Irish making their feelings known, then the talk of no deal. It's going through all the stages again, the next stage being WA, and the stage after that being replace the PM.

Johnson's team surely knows this. So the goal must be to use no deal to threaten MPs/opposition parties. Perhaps he then brings back the WA to vote on it again. If the vote passes he wins, if the vote doesn't pass his opponents have rejected no deal and the deal (the problem is the ERG is only in one of those camps). He then goes into an election as Mr.Brexit. Maybe the stage of voting on the WA will be skipped, but the point is to threaten MPs/opposition parties and end up as Mr.Brexit. The point isn't about no deal, because Johnson doesn't actually care about the Brexit outcome (articles supporting leave and remain, and voting for and against the WA on different occasions).

Maybe no deal happens in the middle of all that. Which would be bad for the Conservative, they would end up owning the worst Brexit outcome. There's also no incentive for Labour voters to vote for Mr.Brexit after the fact. The assumption is the Brexit Party support is winnable post Brexit, but it isn't if Johnson has already won most of the Conservative support back just by being leader, and most of the support still there for the Brexit Party leans towards Labour. How he gets the votes Cameron and May got without the centre, is anyone's guess.


Last edited by ox wagon on Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:22 pm 
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sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


The Tories got 42.4% of the vote, in what world is that a majority?



Quote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .

The majority of those votes were cast for a party with a manifesto committment that "No Deal is better than a bad deal" and who repeated that phrase ad nauseum thro the election cycle.


No deal is better than a bad deal was a manifesto committment of the party that won the GE. It has a mandate. That's how GEs work.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:26 pm 
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sewa wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


The Tories got 42.4% of the vote, in what world is that a majority?


It's a majority of 80% as he mentioned originally....... forget the other 20% of the electorate as it's inconvenient..


What % of the 42.4% hadn't a clue what was in the manifesto or what the politicians were saying as they just vote Tory every time regardless


If this was just quitely slipped into the manifesto on the sly, you might have a point. But The Maybot was relentless on this point.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Right. What the feck is going on? Is the world economy going to shit again?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:28 pm 
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sewa wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


The Tories got 42.4% of the vote, in what world is that a majority?


It's a majority of 80% as he mentioned originally....... forget the other 20% of the electorate as it's inconvenient..


What % of the 42.4% hadn't a clue what was in the manifesto or what the politicians were saying as they just vote Tory every time regardless


He is trying to change the narrative by using dishonest soundbites.
The main UK parties got about 91% of the total vote. No matter what way he would like to wrap it up, I reckon a majority of the 91% were remainers who have always voted along traditional lines.
As for the 32% of muppets who didn't exercise their franchise,one way or the other, they should be hung up by their balls.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:33 pm 
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ox wagon wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Elections have consequences. You may not like them, but they do.

Most of the 2017 votes were for parties that ruled out no deal, about 55%. Using general election votes to make a point doesn't really work though, there's too many other variables.

Arguing over how legitimate no deal is seems besides the point. The October 31st date, isn't really being used against the EU. Because the UK can leave any time it wants with no deal. The EU isn't going to give concessions at the last minute, because what the UK is demanding is so far removed from the current WA (the EU view the WA itself as a concession), it would require an Article 50 extension to renegotiate which can only be asked for by Johnson.

This is like May's tenure on repeat, in a shorter time frame. First there was the baseless optimism, then the Irish making their feelings known, then the talk of no deal. It's going through all the stages again, the next stage being WA, and the stage after that being replace the PM.

Johnson's team surely knows this. So the goal must be to use no deal to threaten MPs/opposition parties. Perhaps he then brings back the WA to vote on it again. If the vote passes he wins, if the vote doesn't pass his opponents have rejected no deal and the deal (the problem is the ERG is only in one of those camps). He then goes into an election as Mr.Brexit. Maybe the stage of voting on the WA will be skipped, but the point is to threaten MPs/opposition parties and end up as Mr.Brexit. The point isn't about no deal, because Johnson doesn't actually care about the Brexit outcome (articles supporting leave and remain, and voting for and against the WA on different occasions).

Maybe no deal happens in the middle of all that. Which would be bad for the Conservative, they would end up owning the worst Brexit outcome. There's also no incentive for Labour voters to vote for Mr.Brexit after the fact. The assumption is the Brexit Party support is winnable post Brexit, but it isn't if Johnson has already won most of the Conservative support back just by being leader, and most of the support still there for the Brexit Party leans towards Labour. How he gets the votes Cameron and May got without the centre, is anyone's guess.


I am inclined to think Boris is genuinely committed to No Deal IF he can't get a renegotiation. So Tory policy hasn't really changed, I just think he may actually mean it.

I remain sceptical he can pull it off. I disgaree with the current view that Parl have missed the boat. I think Bercow and the rebels will come up with something. A bit of me wonders if Bj is actually a bit ambivalent about this risk. I think he would quite fancy a GE where he could position himself standing against a duplicitous elite rather than as the destroyer of worlds etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:37 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
He is trying to change the narrative by using dishonest soundbites.
The main UK parties got about 91% of the total vote. No matter what way he would like to wrap it up, I reckon a majority of the 91% were remainers who have always voted along traditional lines.
As for the 32% of muppets who didn't exercise their franchise,one way or the other, they should be hung up by their balls.


Given we had a Ref that proved exactly the opposite a few months previously, why would you think that!

The Tories and Labour both made manifesto committments to Brexit because they had to. The Ref voting result projected onto a constituency based FTP vote would have been an absolute blood bath.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:38 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


The Tories got 42.4% of the vote, in what world is that a majority?



Quote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .

The majority of those votes were cast for a party with a manifesto committment that "No Deal is better than a bad deal" and who repeated that phrase ad nauseum thro the election cycle.


No deal is better than a bad deal was a manifesto committment of the party that won the GE. It has a mandate. That's how GEs work.

There were lots and lots of things in the Tory manifesto that haven't seen the light of day yet.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/cons ... ous....pdf

Indeed what was actually said was that whilst the Tories believed no deal was better than a bad deal......

Quote:
As we leave the European Union, we will no longer be members of the single market or
customs union but we will seek a deep and special partnership including a comprehensive
free trade and customs agreement. There may be specific European programmes
in which we might want to participate and if so, it will be reasonable that we make a
contribution. We will determine a fair settlement of the UK’s rights and obligations
as a departing member state, in accordance with the law and in the spirit of the UK’s
continuing partnership with the EU. The principle, however, is clear: the days of Britain
making vast annual contributions to the European Union will end.
We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty
as possible – so both sides benefit. We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our
future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the
two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.


Mrs May as PM said that the WA fulfilled the manifesto requirements that she stood on.

You seem to think you know better though.


Last edited by camroc1 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:38 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
sewa wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


The Tories got 42.4% of the vote, in what world is that a majority?


It's a majority of 80% as he mentioned originally....... forget the other 20% of the electorate as it's inconvenient..


What % of the 42.4% hadn't a clue what was in the manifesto or what the politicians were saying as they just vote Tory every time regardless


He is trying to change the narrative by using dishonest soundbites.
The main UK parties got about 91% of the total vote. No matter what way he would like to wrap it up, I reckon a majority of the 91% were remainers who have always voted along traditional lines.
As for the 32% of muppets who didn't exercise their franchise,one way or the other, they should be hung up by their balls.


He's gone into full-on Brexit headbanger loon mode and ignores any evidence that proves he is wrong.

As Philip Hammond wrote in his column today (and he should know given he wrote large parts of the 2017 manifesto)

Quote:
To pretend now that 2016 Leave voters voted for a hard no-deal Brexit is a total travesty of the truth.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:38 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
ox wagon wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Elections have consequences. You may not like them, but they do.

Most of the 2017 votes were for parties that ruled out no deal, about 55%. Using general election votes to make a point doesn't really work though, there's too many other variables.

Arguing over how legitimate no deal is seems besides the point. The October 31st date, isn't really being used against the EU. Because the UK can leave any time it wants with no deal. The EU isn't going to give concessions at the last minute, because what the UK is demanding is so far removed from the current WA (the EU view the WA itself as a concession), it would require an Article 50 extension to renegotiate which can only be asked for by Johnson.

This is like May's tenure on repeat, in a shorter time frame. First there was the baseless optimism, then the Irish making their feelings known, then the talk of no deal. It's going through all the stages again, the next stage being WA, and the stage after that being replace the PM.

Johnson's team surely knows this. So the goal must be to use no deal to threaten MPs/opposition parties. Perhaps he then brings back the WA to vote on it again. If the vote passes he wins, if the vote doesn't pass his opponents have rejected no deal and the deal (the problem is the ERG is only in one of those camps). He then goes into an election as Mr.Brexit. Maybe the stage of voting on the WA will be skipped, but the point is to threaten MPs/opposition parties and end up as Mr.Brexit. The point isn't about no deal, because Johnson doesn't actually care about the Brexit outcome (articles supporting leave and remain, and voting for and against the WA on different occasions).

Maybe no deal happens in the middle of all that. Which would be bad for the Conservative, they would end up owning the worst Brexit outcome. There's also no incentive for Labour voters to vote for Mr.Brexit after the fact. The assumption is the Brexit Party support is winnable post Brexit, but it isn't if Johnson has already won most of the Conservative support back just by being leader, and most of the support still there for the Brexit Party leans towards Labour. How he gets the votes Cameron and May got without the centre, is anyone's guess.


I am inclined to think Boris is genuinely committed to No Deal IF he can't get a renegotiation. So Tory policy hasn't really changed, I just think he may actually mean it.

I remain sceptical he can pull it off. I disgaree with the current view that Parl have missed the boat. I think Bercow and the rebels will come up with something. A bit of me wonders if Bj is actually a bit ambivalent about this risk. I think he would quite fancy a GE where he could position himself standing against a duplicitous elite rather than as the destroyer of worlds etc.


There's no time for a GE before Halloween. So Boris would have to ask for another Extenstion which would tip his hand to everyone else that he wants another GE. Then Farage would destroy him in the press........

Basically I think Boris is fudged as is the Tory Party for the next 20 years. Bravo David Cameron.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:41 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:

Basically I think Boris is fudged as is the Tory Party for the next 20 years. Bravo David Cameron.

Ahhh silver linings...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
zzzz wrote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .



In 2017 we still didn't know the full effects of Brexit - or more likely the Brexiteers were shouting so loudly no-one else could be heard - or the only real Party who are Pro-Remain (Lib Dems) were barely alive. So people voted on traditional party lines like usual.

Tory and Labour MPs were just interested in their own necks in 2017, not the country....so of course everyone was Pro Brexit in 2017.

That 80% statistic is a joke.



Another vote we should ignore, “hey didn’t know what they were voting for”.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:47 pm 
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SamShark wrote:
Quote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .


This isn't a serious point and it's beneath you.

Why that backs your no deal argument, is even more mysterious.



“I’ll ignore whatever votes and facts I want”

Says a remainer always.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:48 pm 
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Leffe wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:

Basically I think Boris is fudged as is the Tory Party for the next 20 years. Bravo David Cameron.

Ahhh silver linings...


:lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:49 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Is it really all that relevant though? It hit me last night as a watched the overblown hyperbole of The Great Hack on Netflix.

Demographics are destiny and as somebody who recently tried to stand against the tide of popular opinion in an Irish context I can testify to its futility.

The Donald and his circus have a little over 12 months in office before the American people turf him out on his ear.
And even if Boris takes the UK out without a deal his cabinet of minority opinion nutjobs are for the walk in best case scenario 5 years.

The UK will rejoin the Union sure as night follows day. Mimbo and their ilk are dinosaurs.



Boris takes us out under any circumstances on the 31st of Oct he wins the election he will call.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:49 pm 
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Posts: 6562
camroc1 wrote:
zzzz wrote:
sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


The Tories got 42.4% of the vote, in what world is that a majority?



Quote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .

The majority of those votes were cast for a party with a manifesto committment that "No Deal is better than a bad deal" and who repeated that phrase ad nauseum thro the election cycle.


No deal is better than a bad deal was a manifesto committment of the party that won the GE. It has a mandate. That's how GEs work.

There were lots and lots of things in the Tory manifesto that haven't seen the light of day yet.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/cons ... ous....pdf

Indeed what was actually said was that whilst the Tories believed no deal was better than a bad deal......

Quote:
As we leave the European Union, we will no longer be members of the single market or
customs union but we will seek a deep and special partnership including a comprehensive
free trade and customs agreement. There may be specific European programmes
in which we might want to participate and if so, it will be reasonable that we make a
contribution. We will determine a fair settlement of the UK’s rights and obligations
as a departing member state, in accordance with the law and in the spirit of the UK’s
continuing partnership with the EU. The principle, however, is clear: the days of Britain
making vast annual contributions to the European Union will end.
We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty
as possible – so both sides benefit. We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our
future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the
two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.


Mrs May as PM said that the WA fulfilled the manifesto requirements that she stood on.

You seem to think you know better though.


Not sure I have ever opposed the WA on the grounds it isn't consistent with the manifesto. I'm not actually sure it is (for example, the Manifesto said the Govt would only agree a WA alongside a final Future Partnership Agreement). But I opposed it because it is exactly the sort of bad deal the manifesto was talking about.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Posts: 62767
happyhooker wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

Let's see the figures in September and whether we're slipping into a recession before you start crowing.



Oh yes another 0.2% contraction will be the end of the world.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Posts: 9083
zzzz wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
zzzz wrote:
sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:

Labour did not get more votes than the Tories. I know Corbyn was confused on this point. But there's no excuse for a sentient human being to be.


The Tories got 42.4% of the vote, in what world is that a majority?



Quote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .

The majority of those votes were cast for a party with a manifesto committment that "No Deal is better than a bad deal" and who repeated that phrase ad nauseum thro the election cycle.


No deal is better than a bad deal was a manifesto committment of the party that won the GE. It has a mandate. That's how GEs work.

There were lots and lots of things in the Tory manifesto that haven't seen the light of day yet.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/cons ... ous....pdf

Indeed what was actually said was that whilst the Tories believed no deal was better than a bad deal......

Quote:
As we leave the European Union, we will no longer be members of the single market or
customs union but we will seek a deep and special partnership including a comprehensive
free trade and customs agreement. There may be specific European programmes
in which we might want to participate and if so, it will be reasonable that we make a
contribution. We will determine a fair settlement of the UK’s rights and obligations
as a departing member state, in accordance with the law and in the spirit of the UK’s
continuing partnership with the EU. The principle, however, is clear: the days of Britain
making vast annual contributions to the European Union will end.
We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty
as possible – so both sides benefit. We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our
future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the
two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.


Mrs May as PM said that the WA fulfilled the manifesto requirements that she stood on.

You seem to think you know better though.


Not sure I have ever opposed the WA on the grounds it isn't consistent with the manifesto. I'm not actually sure it is (for example, the Manifesto said the Govt would only agree a WA alongside a final Future Partnership Agreement). But I opposed it because it is exactly the sort of bad deal the manifesto was talking about.


It does not matter whether or not you oppose it. It is, as you said earlier, the manifesto based on which the Tories won the election.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Posts: 2141
bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
80% of the votes cast at the last general election were for a party committed to Brexit .


This isn't a serious point and it's beneath you.

Why that backs your no deal argument, is even more mysterious.



“I’ll ignore whatever votes and facts I want”

Says a remainer always.


So you and zzzzzzz are claiming that the Labour 2017 manifesto could be interpreted as in favour of a no deal Brexit. This is what it says:

Quote:
Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.


There is no mandate for no-deal.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:54 pm 
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Posts: 62767
sewa wrote:
zzzz wrote:
sewa wrote:

I bolded and underlined your lie just to make it clear to you. The Labour manifesto does not contain a commitment that "No deal is better than a bad deal". So stop lying


Again, read what I wrote


I read what you wrote and I put up a link proving its a lie. You can say whatever you like about Mullets posting but he doesn't deliberately post lies



You’re so thick.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:54 pm 
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Posts: 4418
backrow wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

Let's see the figures in September and whether we're slipping into a recession before you start crowing.


Not crowing, just saying it’s not all doom and gloom and only U.K. will suffer as remoaners love to claim
Fall in GBP? Makes it cheaper for foreign firms to employ people in the U.K.


Uh... no. Everyone has said that Brexit - particularly a no deal Brexit - will hurt all parties. It's just that the UK is likely to be hit much harder. No one has ever said that only the UK will suffer.

When Britannia shoots herself in the head, her neighbours still have to pay to get the blood splashes dry-cleaned out of their clothes.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 22860
bimboman wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

Let's see the figures in September and whether we're slipping into a recession before you start crowing.



Oh yes another 0.2% contraction will be the end of the world.

For someone who constantly complains that your words are misrepresented or that words are put into your mouth, you don't half do the same thing a lot.

Are you still claiming that Murdoch's a remainer btw?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:57 pm 
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Posts: 12066
“There's a terrible kind of collaboration, as it were, going on between people who think they can block Brexit in parliament and our European friends.” ~ Boris Johnson

Also: Our European friends are not moving in their willingness to compromise, they're not compromising at all on the withdrawal agreement, even though it's been thrown out three times. They're sticking to every letter, every comma of the withdrawal agreement - including the [Irish] backstop.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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