Planet Rugby Forum

Rejoin the EU Mick - because it's beneficial to our country overall, as recognised by all non-ideologues.

It’s a disgraceful “truth is lies “ to say remain isn’t ideological now.

bok_viking wrote:

shereblue wrote:I appreciate that some Brexitists expect the EU 27 give up the SM's borders so that the UK can take back control of such of its borders as it chooses but why can't there be a referendum in NI on NI staying in the SM - why is it for Boris and the DUP to decide that question?

Not that the Uk government can be trusted to keep promises made during referendums. During the Scottish referendum for independence, the UK government promised Scotland that they would not look to leave the EU if Scotland stays part of the UK. Scotland was quite adamant at the time that they wanted to stay part of the EU. So much for keeping promises. So they will most likely screw over NI as well and not lose a wink of sleep as a result.

Scotland can leave if it so wants. There will be another ref at some point. It can add to the number of net recipients provided the EU accept that.

What are you so scared of Mick?

You want to leave, apparently "because". Because "sovereignty".

It goes without saying that if the EU demands we give them all free handjobs for the rest of eternity we might reconsider, but it's not a stretch to think that the reasons we should stay in now - trade and business benefits, colaboration opportunities, security etc, will endure.

The challenges the world faces in future seem to require even more collaboration to me, and whilst I can accept that countries outside the EU can still work together, we had and could have more influence in the team than outside.

How do you know why I want to leave?

SamShark wrote:What are you so scared of Mick?

You want to leave, apparently "because". Because "sovereignty".

It goes without saying that if the EU demands we give them all free handjobs for the rest of eternity we might reconsider, but it's not a stretch to think that the reasons we should stay in now - trade and business benefits, colaboration opportunities, security etc, will endure.

The challenges the world faces in future seem to require even more collaboration to me, and whilst I can accept that countries outside the EU can still work together, we had and could have more influence in the team than outside.

We had no influence at all.

bimboman wrote:

Rejoin the EU Mick - because it's beneficial to our country overall, as recognised by all non-ideologues.

It’s a disgraceful “truth is lies “ to say remain isn’t ideological now.

Remainers can have ideals too - most do I suspect, so hold off on thinking you've just uncovered a killer point - co-operation, openness and unity can be "felt".

It's good to combine feelings with logic where possible.

Mick Mannock wrote:How do you know why I want to leave?

I'm a Jedi knight.

bimboman wrote:

SamShark wrote:What are you so scared of Mick?

You want to leave, apparently "because". Because "sovereignty".

It goes without saying that if the EU demands we give them all free handjobs for the rest of eternity we might reconsider, but it's not a stretch to think that the reasons we should stay in now - trade and business benefits, colaboration opportunities, security etc, will endure.

The challenges the world faces in future seem to require even more collaboration to me, and whilst I can accept that countries outside the EU can still work together, we had and could have more influence in the team than outside.

We had no influence at all.

Poor weak Britain eh?

Hope we can stand up to our new bud Donald.

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Rejoin the EU Mick - because it's beneficial to our country overall, as recognised by all non-ideologues.

It’s a disgraceful “truth is lies “ to say remain isn’t ideological now.

Remainers can have ideals too - most do I suspect, so hold off on thinking you've just uncovered a killer point - co-operation, openness and unity can be "felt".

It's good to combine feelings with logic where possible.

“Feelings “ about our trading regulations.

bimboman wrote:

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Rejoin the EU Mick - because it's beneficial to our country overall, as recognised by all non-ideologues.

It’s a disgraceful “truth is lies “ to say remain isn’t ideological now.

Remainers can have ideals too - most do I suspect, so hold off on thinking you've just uncovered a killer point - co-operation, openness and unity can be "felt".

It's good to combine feelings with logic where possible.

“Feelings “ about our trading regulations.

I'm not feeling that this is a meaningful response or counter-point to what I just wrote, so can only assume it is a distraction tactic.

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Rejoin the EU Mick - because it's beneficial to our country overall, as recognised by all non-ideologues.

It’s a disgraceful “truth is lies “ to say remain isn’t ideological now.

Remainers can have ideals too - most do I suspect, so hold off on thinking you've just uncovered a killer point - co-operation, openness and unity can be "felt".

It's good to combine feelings with logic where possible.

And logic may determine that it is best to be less dependent on a disparate group of nations who are tied to a currency union that history suggests will fail. I would of course be delighted for you to list all the historical currency union successes.

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:

SamShark wrote:What are you so scared of Mick?

You want to leave, apparently "because". Because "sovereignty".

It goes without saying that if the EU demands we give them all free handjobs for the rest of eternity we might reconsider, but it's not a stretch to think that the reasons we should stay in now - trade and business benefits, colaboration opportunities, security etc, will endure.

The challenges the world faces in future seem to require even more collaboration to me, and whilst I can accept that countries outside the EU can still work together, we had and could have more influence in the team than outside.

We had no influence at all.

Poor weak Britain eh?

Hope we can stand up to our new bud Donald.

Not being in the central currency alone made us practically powerless.

Mick Mannock wrote:

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Rejoin the EU Mick - because it's beneficial to our country overall, as recognised by all non-ideologues.

It’s a disgraceful “truth is lies “ to say remain isn’t ideological now.

Remainers can have ideals too - most do I suspect, so hold off on thinking you've just uncovered a killer point - co-operation, openness and unity can be "felt".

It's good to combine feelings with logic where possible.

And logic may determine that it is best to be less dependent on a disparate group of nations who are tied to a currency union that history suggests will fail. I would of course be delighted for you to list all the historical currency union successes.

If logic determines something I may well go along with it. Applying logic would be a change in direction for this country so I won't hold my breath.

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Rejoin the EU Mick - because it's beneficial to our country overall, as recognised by all non-ideologues.

It’s a disgraceful “truth is lies “ to say remain isn’t ideological now.

Remainers can have ideals too - most do I suspect, so hold off on thinking you've just uncovered a killer point - co-operation, openness and unity can be "felt".

It's good to combine feelings with logic where possible.

“Feelings “ about our trading regulations.

I'm not feeling that this is a meaningful response or counter-point to what I just wrote, so can only assume it is a distraction tactic.

You’re driven by “feelings” it seems. I’m trying to be logical that’s all.

sorCrer wrote:Surely one of the problems is that more of the population want to stay in the EU currently and that percentage will grow regardless?

As I have said repeatedly, the demographic has changed in the 3 years since the vote and is continuing to change.

I did a little research which suggested that around 600,000 new voters are coming of voting age every year and natural depredation suggests a similar number (500,000, IIRC) of over 55s are dropping off at the other end. It may be the other way around, but no matter. In any case, sooner or later there will probably be an appetite to rejoin the EU (assuming, of course that the damage being done currently doesn't destroy the project for all practical intents and purposes).

I would guess that if the Referendum was re-run now, the vote would be reversed just on the change of demographic alone, never mind that the electorate would now be far better informed than they were in 2016.

Which is why they don't want a second vote.

There has been a suggestion on here that the general derision suffered by the Brexiters would get peoples backs up and a Leave vote would command an even bigger majority, but that does seem unlikely to me. And, indeed, if that was the case, then they absolutely deserve the economic hardship that is probably coming their way.

Yes mate, there are no worries about Brexit and trade.

It's just a bit of a funny feeling that remainers have - probably nothing.

Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

Now that is the biggest load of bollocks I have read here, and by Christ there has been some shite spouted on this thread these past 3 years.

The Sun God wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

Now that is the biggest load of bollocks I have read here, and by Christ there has been some shite spouted on this thread these past 3 years.

Good for you

The Sun God wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

Now that is the biggest load of bollocks I have read here, and by Christ there has been some shite spouted on this thread these past 3 years.

1. The EU members dont all have the euro

2. How does the EMU influence trade with the UK? You rather trade with the US which has a president thats bullying FED to lower rates? China that actively manipulates? Bullshit argument unless you can give anything else

nardol wrote:

The Sun God wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

Now that is the biggest load of bollocks I have read here, and by Christ there has been some shite spouted on this thread these past 3 years.

1. The EU members dont all have the euro

2. How does the EMU influence trade with the UK? You rather trade with the US which has a president thats bullying FED to lower rates? China that actively manipulates? Bullshit argument unless you can give anything else

Good for you as well.

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

The irony being of course that your currency has been on a downward spiral for a while now.

feckwanker wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

The irony being of course that your currency has been on a downward spiral for a while now.

Indeed the pound collapsing can only be only good news but if the Euro were to be tanking that would be bad. Bloody morons

the weak pound is already starting to effect me at work, but hey fudge it. all worth it now that Nige has a new passport

feckwanker wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

The irony being of course that your currency has been on a downward spiral for a while now.

Why is that relevant?

sewa wrote:

feckwanker wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

The irony being of course that your currency has been on a downward spiral for a while now.

Indeed the pound collapsing can only be only good news but if the Euro were to be tanking that would be bad. Bloody morons

The UK and its currency is nothing to do with a currency union. The pound is unlikely to cease existing.

Mick Mannock wrote:

nardol wrote:

The Sun God wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

Now that is the biggest load of bollocks I have read here, and by Christ there has been some shite spouted on this thread these past 3 years.

1. The EU members dont all have the euro

2. How does the EMU influence trade with the UK? You rather trade with the US which has a president thats bullying FED to lower rates? China that actively manipulates? Bullshit argument unless you can give anything else

Good for you as well.

This infuriates me about brexiteers.

Make a statement and any time they are remotely challenged

*fingers in ears*


LA-LA-LA-La_laLALALALALLALA

Right up there with trump climate deniers and militant feminists/vegans

Mick Mannock wrote:

sewa wrote:

feckwanker wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

The irony being of course that your currency has been on a downward spiral for a while now.

Indeed the pound collapsing can only be only good news but if the Euro were to be tanking that would be bad. Bloody morons

The UK and its currency is nothing to do with a currency union. The pound is unlikely to cease existing.

The Zimbabwe dollar is also unlikely to cease to exist - doesn't stop it being worthless though (I'm not suggesting that the Sterling will be worthless, more pointing out the mere existence of a currency is useless).

You've being talking down the Euro for years now, as have most of the British press and yet it's still here. Still making all of our lives (our as in Europeans) easier.

Your accusation is somewhat ironic Nardol given that criticisms of the Euro is often met with denial and ridicule.

Mick Mannock wrote:

SamShark wrote:It's very hard to go back on decisions - many controversial policies are quietly adopted by new Governments.

But I'd like to see us re join the EU even if we accept a worse deal than we currently have, which is obviously highly likely.

Lets hope I'm wrong - if we have to do Brexit I'd rather it works to be honest - but as I think it will fail, I think vocal support for being outside the EU will fade away.

Once Brexit is done and can't be easily reversed I think a lot of truth may come out too - conveniently buried for now.

And it will be clearer which of our patriotic heroes was in it for themselves.

But most of all, so few younger people want Brexit, or want to live in a Brexity way. They are not into nationalism and pretend sovereignty - they look outwards, want to be EU citizens and have no interest in pretending Brexit is great to save face as it's just another shit sandwich served up by their elders.

Rejoin? Rejoin what? Are you really such an ideologue that you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future?

Will you want the UK to still be part of NATO in the future?
Will you want England to still be part of the UK in the future?
Will you want the UK to be part of a future EU army?

Of course you can have a view on such matters

feckwanker wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

The irony being of course that your currency has been on a downward spiral for a while now.

Lost a quarter of its value against the Euro since the referendum.

shereblue wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

SamShark wrote:It's very hard to go back on decisions - many controversial policies are quietly adopted by new Governments.

But I'd like to see us re join the EU even if we accept a worse deal than we currently have, which is obviously highly likely.

Lets hope I'm wrong - if we have to do Brexit I'd rather it works to be honest - but as I think it will fail, I think vocal support for being outside the EU will fade away.

Once Brexit is done and can't be easily reversed I think a lot of truth may come out too - conveniently buried for now.

And it will be clearer which of our patriotic heroes was in it for themselves.

But most of all, so few younger people want Brexit, or want to live in a Brexity way. They are not into nationalism and pretend sovereignty - they look outwards, want to be EU citizens and have no interest in pretending Brexit is great to save face as it's just another shit sandwich served up by their elders.

Rejoin? Rejoin what? Are you really such an ideologue that you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future?

Will you want the UK to still be part of NATO in the future?
Will you want England to still be part of the UK in the future?
Will you want the UK to be part of a future EU army?

Of course you can have a view on such matters

You clearly did not read my post. Either that or you are a bit dim.

Mick Mannock wrote:Your accusation is somewhat ironic Nardol given that criticisms of the Euro is often met with denial and ridicule.

I have been quite open in my opinion that italy and greece need to be booted out

Mick Mannock wrote:Your accusation is somewhat ironic Nardol given that criticisms of the Euro is often met with denial and ridicule.

What are the criticisms of the Euro?

Seems most people are in favour of it:
https://www.ft.com/content/b24c5de0-fc8 ... e208d3e521

nardol wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:Your accusation is somewhat ironic Nardol given that criticisms of the Euro is often met with denial and ridicule.

I have been quite open in my opinion that italy and greece need to be booted out

They might leave

SamShark wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

SamShark wrote:It's very hard to go back on decisions - many controversial policies are quietly adopted by new Governments.

But I'd like to see us re join the EU even if we accept a worse deal than we currently have, which is obviously highly likely.

Lets hope I'm wrong - if we have to do Brexit I'd rather it works to be honest - but as I think it will fail, I think vocal support for being outside the EU will fade away.

Once Brexit is done and can't be easily reversed I think a lot of truth may come out too - conveniently buried for now.

And it will be clearer which of our patriotic heroes was in it for themselves.

But most of all, so few younger people want Brexit, or want to live in a Brexity way. They are not into nationalism and pretend sovereignty - they look outwards, want to be EU citizens and have no interest in pretending Brexit is great to save face as it's just another shit sandwich served up by their elders.

Rejoin? Rejoin what? Are you really such an ideologue that you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future?

Rejoin the EU Mick - because it's beneficial to our country overall, as recognised by all non-ideologues.

There's another reality and that is that this planet has greater challenges than zenophobic aggression.
The ERG and limited vision leaders like Trump continue to promote exploitation for the short term gain that their shallow minds encompass as success.
There's a challenge coming to us (and, more importantly to our kids) that needs the type of leadership that transcends capitalism.
That solution can only lie in integration, not diversity, which is why the cynical Brexit weakening of trans European cooperation promotes insularity when humanity needs cohesion.

Dear Donald "As the (brainless) head of the world's largest economy, What is your vision for our planet?"

Mick Mannock wrote:

shereblue wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

SamShark wrote:It's very hard to go back on decisions - many controversial policies are quietly adopted by new Governments.

But I'd like to see us re join the EU even if we accept a worse deal than we currently have, which is obviously highly likely.

Lets hope I'm wrong - if we have to do Brexit I'd rather it works to be honest - but as I think it will fail, I think vocal support for being outside the EU will fade away.

Once Brexit is done and can't be easily reversed I think a lot of truth may come out too - conveniently buried for now.

And it will be clearer which of our patriotic heroes was in it for themselves.

But most of all, so few younger people want Brexit, or want to live in a Brexity way. They are not into nationalism and pretend sovereignty - they look outwards, want to be EU citizens and have no interest in pretending Brexit is great to save face as it's just another shit sandwich served up by their elders.

Rejoin? Rejoin what? Are you really such an ideologue that you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future?

Will you want the UK to still be part of NATO in the future?
Will you want England to still be part of the UK in the future?
Will you want the UK to be part of a future EU army?

Of course you can have a view on such matters

You clearly did not read my post. Either that or you are a bit dim.

Humbled by a rocket scientist. And not any Rocket Scientist. MM himself. THE self-defined rocket scientist. I am truly honoured.

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:

SamShark wrote:What are you so scared of Mick?

You want to leave, apparently "because". Because "sovereignty".

It goes without saying that if the EU demands we give them all free handjobs for the rest of eternity we might reconsider, but it's not a stretch to think that the reasons we should stay in now - trade and business benefits, colaboration opportunities, security etc, will endure.

The challenges the world faces in future seem to require even more collaboration to me, and whilst I can accept that countries outside the EU can still work together, we had and could have more influence in the team than outside.

We had no influence at all.

Poor weak Britain eh?

Hope we can stand up to our new bud Donald.

Of all the cancer's lies this is one of the biggest. The main arguments for brexit were based on rules imposed on the EU at the insistence of the UK (to the economic benefit of the UK) and ironically the reason it is so problematic for the UK to leave us because of a process brought in by the UK. But yeah, the UK had no influence.