Planet Rugby Forum

MrJonno wrote:

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:

SamShark wrote:What are you so scared of Mick?

You want to leave, apparently "because". Because "sovereignty".

It goes without saying that if the EU demands we give them all free handjobs for the rest of eternity we might reconsider, but it's not a stretch to think that the reasons we should stay in now - trade and business benefits, colaboration opportunities, security etc, will endure.

The challenges the world faces in future seem to require even more collaboration to me, and whilst I can accept that countries outside the EU can still work together, we had and could have more influence in the team than outside.

We had no influence at all.

Poor weak Britain eh?

Hope we can stand up to our new bud Donald.

Of all the cancer's lies this is one of the biggest. The main arguments for brexit were based on rules imposed on the EU at the insistence of the UK (to the economic benefit of the UK) and ironically the reason it is so problematic for the UK to leave us because of a process brought in by the UK. But yeah, the UK had no influence.

I’m fairly certain you knew what this means ..... did you get a little excited after using “cancer” again?

camroc1 wrote:

feckwanker wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

feckwanker wrote:Tell us why you want the UK to leave the EU so Mick.

Because I do not want the UK to be so dependant on trade with an organisation that I believe has a flawed currency union.

The irony being of course that your currency has been on a downward spiral for a while now.

Lost a quarter of its value against the Euro since the referendum.

When this reverses (which it inevitably will) I’ll look forward to your devaluation is great narrative.

shereblue wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

shereblue wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

SamShark wrote:It's very hard to go back on decisions - many controversial policies are quietly adopted by new Governments.

But I'd like to see us re join the EU even if we accept a worse deal than we currently have, which is obviously highly likely.

Lets hope I'm wrong - if we have to do Brexit I'd rather it works to be honest - but as I think it will fail, I think vocal support for being outside the EU will fade away.

Once Brexit is done and can't be easily reversed I think a lot of truth may come out too - conveniently buried for now.

And it will be clearer which of our patriotic heroes was in it for themselves.

But most of all, so few younger people want Brexit, or want to live in a Brexity way. They are not into nationalism and pretend sovereignty - they look outwards, want to be EU citizens and have no interest in pretending Brexit is great to save face as it's just another shit sandwich served up by their elders.

Rejoin? Rejoin what? Are you really such an ideologue that you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future?

Will you want the UK to still be part of NATO in the future?
Will you want England to still be part of the UK in the future?
Will you want the UK to be part of a future EU army?

Of course you can have a view on such matters

You clearly did not read my post. Either that or you are a bit dim.

Humbled by a rocket scientist. And not any Rocket Scientist. MM himself. THE self-defined rocket scientist. I am truly honoured.

It is a sign of mental collapse when one aligns with Rinkals

Mick, this isn't relevant any longer ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQCQDvAnbGI

. Boris Johnson has said it will not be "a cinch" to persuade the EU to change its Brexit deal with the UK.
Speaking in Devon, the prime minister said the government was "making progress", but would "have to prepare to come out without an agreement".

3 years now lads.

Creativity, positivity etc etc

Speaking of Brexiteer hot takes, here’s Aaron Bankks today:

. We managed to arrange the evacuation of 100,000’s troops from a beach in France using thousands of small craft , under massive military pressure , in a few days but we can’t fill in a few new forms in 2019...

Is this the logic we were chatting about earlier, smashing those dreamy remainer ideologies

Because we had a war, this means additional friction for business is ok

Brexit

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:

What does "collapse" mean? Are you going down the "if the sky doesn't fall in Brexit was a success" route again.

Young people will likely lose all manner of opportunities due to Brexit not just financial, but any economic damage will no doubt hit their chances harder than yours.

If all you've got is "unless there's an economic collapse Brexit is a success" then GTFO.

It’s not a route, you’ve been spreading and accepting scare stories for 2 years, and in fact trying to use them stories as a reason to cancel democracy.

You’re now left moaning about imaginary opportunities that will be missed.

I hope I haven't scared you Bimbo. As much as I'd like to spread Brexit fear, I think only about 20 people read this thread and nobody has yet changed their mind on anything.

It’s a fucking effortless switch from “spreading brexit scare stories” to accusing you of trying to “cancel democracy”.

SamShark wrote:Speaking of Brexiteer hot takes, here’s Aaron Bankks today:

. We managed to arrange the evacuation of 100,000’s troops from a beach in France using thousands of small craft , under massive military pressure , in a few days but we can’t fill in a few new forms in 2019...

Is this the logic we were chatting about earlier, smashing those dreamy remainer ideologies

Just the 68,000 dead during the campaign, plus French and civilian losses, plus leaving behind virtually all the kit.

Take that, EU!

f**king armchair general wankers raised on the complete bollocks portrayed in Commando comics and the like.

The Man Without Fear wrote:

SamShark wrote:Speaking of Brexiteer hot takes, here’s Aaron Bankks today:

. We managed to arrange the evacuation of 100,000’s troops from a beach in France using thousands of small craft , under massive military pressure , in a few days but we can’t fill in a few new forms in 2019...

Is this the logic we were chatting about earlier, smashing those dreamy remainer ideologies

Just the 68,000 dead during the campaign, plus French and civilian losses, plus leaving behind virtually all the kit.

Take that, EU!

f**king armchair general wankers raised on the complete bollocks portrayed in Commando comics and the like.

Bit harsh on Maurice Gamelin

Mick Mannock wrote:

shereblue wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

SamShark wrote:It's very hard to go back on decisions - many controversial policies are quietly adopted by new Governments.

But I'd like to see us re join the EU even if we accept a worse deal than we currently have, which is obviously highly likely.

Lets hope I'm wrong - if we have to do Brexit I'd rather it works to be honest - but as I think it will fail, I think vocal support for being outside the EU will fade away.

Once Brexit is done and can't be easily reversed I think a lot of truth may come out too - conveniently buried for now.

And it will be clearer which of our patriotic heroes was in it for themselves.

But most of all, so few younger people want Brexit, or want to live in a Brexity way. They are not into nationalism and pretend sovereignty - they look outwards, want to be EU citizens and have no interest in pretending Brexit is great to save face as it's just another shit sandwich served up by their elders.

Rejoin? Rejoin what? Are you really such an ideologue that you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future?

Will you want the UK to still be part of NATO in the future?
Will you want England to still be part of the UK in the future?
Will you want the UK to be part of a future EU army?

Of course you can have a view on such matters

You clearly did not read my post. Either that or you are a bit dim.

For someone that bleats about ad hominems, you are quite happy pass them out.

Your post made absolutely no sense. "you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future"

What does that even mean? The likelihood is that the EU will look much the same in the future as it does now.

The EU as an organisation was formed to leverage the sum of it's individual members as a global entity and, as such it's has benefits to it's members. That is why leaving without a deal is not such a good idea, and that is why the young are heavily invested in Europe, while the old are already at the point where the advantages are no longer apparent.

Rinkals wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

shereblue wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

SamShark wrote:It's very hard to go back on decisions - many controversial policies are quietly adopted by new Governments.

But I'd like to see us re join the EU even if we accept a worse deal than we currently have, which is obviously highly likely.

Lets hope I'm wrong - if we have to do Brexit I'd rather it works to be honest - but as I think it will fail, I think vocal support for being outside the EU will fade away.

Once Brexit is done and can't be easily reversed I think a lot of truth may come out too - conveniently buried for now.

And it will be clearer which of our patriotic heroes was in it for themselves.

But most of all, so few younger people want Brexit, or want to live in a Brexity way. They are not into nationalism and pretend sovereignty - they look outwards, want to be EU citizens and have no interest in pretending Brexit is great to save face as it's just another shit sandwich served up by their elders.

Rejoin? Rejoin what? Are you really such an ideologue that you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future?

Will you want the UK to still be part of NATO in the future?
Will you want England to still be part of the UK in the future?
Will you want the UK to be part of a future EU army?

Of course you can have a view on such matters

You clearly did not read my post. Either that or you are a bit dim.

For someone that bleats about ad hominems, you are quite happy pass them out.

Your post made absolutely no sense. "you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future"

What does that even mean? The likelihood is that the EU will look much the same in the future as it does now.

The EU as an organisation was formed to leverage the sum of it's individual members as a global entity and, as such it's has benefits to it's members. That is why leaving without a deal is not such a good idea, and that is why the young are heavily invested in Europe, while the old are already at the point where the advantages are no longer apparent.

My wording may have been a bit clumsy, but no one can tell what the EU may look like in the future. You can only guess.

Mick Mannock wrote:

shereblue wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

shereblue wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:Rejoin? Rejoin what? Are you really such an ideologue that you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future?

Will you want the UK to still be part of NATO in the future?
Will you want England to still be part of the UK in the future?
Will you want the UK to be part of a future EU army?

Of course you can have a view on such matters

You clearly did not read my post. Either that or you are a bit dim.

Humbled by a rocket scientist. And not any Rocket Scientist. MM himself. THE self-defined rocket scientist. I am truly honoured.

It is a sign of mental collapse when one aligns with Rinkals

Because you're so smart and I'm so stupid?

Frankly, I'm perfectly happy for you, Bimbo and Trans to metaphorically high-five each other over your supposed intellectual superiority. In fact, I'd be disappointed were it any other way.

Mick Mannock wrote:

Rinkals wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

shereblue wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote: Rejoin? Rejoin what? Are you really such an ideologue that you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future?

Will you want the UK to still be part of NATO in the future?
Will you want England to still be part of the UK in the future?
Will you want the UK to be part of a future EU army?

Of course you can have a view on such matters

You clearly did not read my post. Either that or you are a bit dim.

For someone that bleats about ad hominems, you are quite happy pass them out.

Your post made absolutely no sense. "you already want to rejoin an organisation that you have no idea what will look like in the future"

What does that even mean? The likelihood is that the EU will look much the same in the future as it does now.

The EU as an organisation was formed to leverage the sum of it's individual members as a global entity and, as such it's has benefits to it's members. That is why leaving without a deal is not such a good idea, and that is why the young are heavily invested in Europe, while the old are already at the point where the advantages are no longer apparent.

My wording may have been a bit clumsy, but no one can tell what the EU may look like in the future. You can only guess.

And that's why it makes no sense. You are embracing leaving the EU and you think that you have an accurate picture of what Britain's going to be like when you do? Seriously?

And then you deride other people as stupid?

No, that is why Sam's post about rejoining makes little sense.

SamShark wrote:Speaking of Brexiteer hot takes, here’s Aaron Bankks today:

. We managed to arrange the evacuation of 100,000’s troops from a beach in France using thousands of small craft , under massive military pressure , in a few days but we can’t fill in a few new forms in 2019...

Is this the logic we were chatting about earlier, smashing those dreamy remainer ideologies

No. It's the logic of someone, who when they encounter some paperwork they need to do, to proceed Legally ..... ignores it & just breaks the law ... and when they're caught, they bitch about it, & complain about faceless bureaucrats stifling business, etc; & ignore the fact that them ignoring the rules, means that honest business men, who follow the rules, go out of business, & the shithead spivs survive & thrive !

Mick Mannock wrote:No, that is why Sam's post about rejoining makes little sense.

You are still not getting it.

You are deriding Sam's post because you say that the position of the EU in the future is uncertain. Yet you are embracing leaving the EU where the future is not just uncertain, but fraught with very real danger and probable hardship.

I'm not sure how to explain it in simple enough terms so that you grasp the senselessness of your argument.

slick wrote:

IIRC, Slick is a drinking buddy of Raab's which makes it understandable that he's a little touchy about Raab being slagged off on here.

Just to clear this up for any future conversations. He's a very old mate who I've known since we were 15. Our mums are close and my dad helped him through some rough times when we were younger.

It annoys me when folk throw uninformed and ignorent comments about him. He has a brilliant intellect and is a very rounded and loyal individual in his private life. Throwaway comments by people who will never achieve what he has get on my nerves as do intelligent and high achieving people like TSG acting like a teenage twitter mob when his name comes up.

I also happen to think he is a pretty average politician and a poor communicator who is doing untold damage to our country. I certainly don't get touchy with folk slagging him about that, and I'm quite happy to do it myself.

He's also an ignorant cúnt and cheerleader for one of the most idiotic decisions a country has ever made and a dangerous liar.

But it's nice you lads played soggy biscuit

Rinkals wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:No, that is why Sam's post about rejoining makes little sense.

You are still not getting it.

You are deriding Sam's post because you say that the position of the EU in the future is uncertain. Yet you are embracing leaving the EU where the future is not just uncertain, but fraught with very real danger and probable hardship.

I'm not sure how to explain it in simple enough terms so that you grasp the senselessness of your argument.

Rinkals, I'm afraid I'm not aligning with you here.

Mick is right.

The future can never be absolutely certain. Sense alone cannot precisely foretell the future. Belief however can transcend the limitations of mere sense.

Anyone questioning the primacy of the Rocket Scientist's belief over mere sense is dim. QED.

Mullet 2 wrote:

slick wrote:

IIRC, Slick is a drinking buddy of Raab's which makes it understandable that he's a little touchy about Raab being slagged off on here.

Just to clear this up for any future conversations. He's a very old mate who I've known since we were 15. Our mums are close and my dad helped him through some rough times when we were younger.

It annoys me when folk throw uninformed and ignorent comments about him. He has a brilliant intellect and is a very rounded and loyal individual in his private life. Throwaway comments by people who will never achieve what he has get on my nerves as do intelligent and high achieving people like TSG acting like a teenage twitter mob when his name comes up.

I also happen to think he is a pretty average politician and a poor communicator who is doing untold damage to our country. I certainly don't get touchy with folk slagging him about that, and I'm quite happy to do it myself.

He's also an ignorant cúnt and cheerleader for one of the most idiotic decisions a country has ever made and a dangerous liar.

But it's nice you lads played soggy biscuit

It’s like the scene from trainspotting - he’s a complete idiot but he’s a mate so what can you do

A hard brexit it is

So, according to the ST, Boris' latest wheeze is to draft hundreds of Scottish and English police into the Irish border areas come Brexit. You know, as some sort of Special or Auxilliary Constabulary.

It would be funny, if it wasn't so serious.

I can just imagine the reaction of locals being asked by some Auxie in a Lahndahn accent why they are crossing the border and who they are visiting in Eire.

camroc1 wrote:So, according to the ST, Boris' latest wheeze is to draft hundreds of Scottish and English police into the Irish border areas come Brexit. You know, as some sort of Special or Auxilliary Constabulary.

It would be funny, if it wasn't so serious.

I can just imagine the reaction of locals being asked by some Auxie in a Lahndahn accent why they are crossing the border and who they are visiting in Eire.

You must be a very backward, parochial people

Mick Mannock wrote:

camroc1 wrote:So, according to the ST, Boris' latest wheeze is to draft hundreds of Scottish and English police into the Irish border areas come Brexit. You know, as some sort of Special or Auxilliary Constabulary.

It would be funny, if it wasn't so serious.

I can just imagine the reaction of locals being asked by some Auxie in a Lahndahn accent why they are crossing the border and who they are visiting in Eire.

You must be a very backward, parochial people

You are very ignorant of your own history.

camroc1 wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

camroc1 wrote:So, according to the ST, Boris' latest wheeze is to draft hundreds of Scottish and English police into the Irish border areas come Brexit. You know, as some sort of Special or Auxilliary Constabulary.

It would be funny, if it wasn't so serious.

I can just imagine the reaction of locals being asked by some Auxie in a Lahndahn accent why they are crossing the border and who they are visiting in Eire.

You must be a very backward, parochial people

You are very ignorant of your own history.

Always history with some people. Try entering the 21st century

That's the spirit, Mick! Although I'm not sure if it's Blitz or Dunkirk.

So the doc was from August .
https://twitter.com/PhilipHammondUK/sta ... 16480?s=19

The strange times we live in:

Alan Duncan MP Tweeted he was going to announce something.

As he resigned when Boris became PM, and openly describes his dislike for Boris, many assumed he was defecting or something.

Then he started Tweeting pics of him and Boris and banging on about selling pork pies to the USA.

These days nobody knows if he's ben hacked or has developed a sudden (career related) love of Boris and no deal.

https://twitter.com/AlanDuncanMP

tazman77 wrote:So the doc was from August .
https://twitter.com/PhilipHammondUK/sta ... 16480?s=19

And is not a worst case, but the most likely "base" case.

Alan Duncan - arch remainer

Well he has been since his offer to lead the official vote leave campaign was rejected.

camroc1 wrote:

tazman77 wrote:So the doc was from August .
https://twitter.com/PhilipHammondUK/sta ... 16480?s=19

And is not a worst case, but the most likely "base" case.

Where base is equivalent to the UK Government doing absolutely nothing in mitigation. These reports are absolutely essential in order to implement strategies in the case of a no-deal outcome.

bimboman wrote:Alan Duncan - arch remainer

Well he has been since his offer to lead the official vote leave campaign was rejected.

Can you give us an insight into his mindset, being as you are a remainer that has become an exceptionally passionate and committed Brexiteer?

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:Alan Duncan - arch remainer

Well he has been since his offer to lead the official vote leave campaign was rejected.

Can you give us an insight into his mindset, being as you are a remainer that has become an exceptionally passionate and committed Brexiteer?

Sadly I’m not an odious c unt so am unable to help you here.

Gospel wrote:

camroc1 wrote:

tazman77 wrote:So the doc was from August .
https://twitter.com/PhilipHammondUK/sta ... 16480?s=19

And is not a worst case, but the most likely "base" case.

Where base is equivalent to the UK Government doing absolutely nothing in mitigation. These reports are absolutely essential in order to implement strategies in the case of a no-deal outcome.

Fair enough if you are happy to rely on breezy re-assurances over detailed Government reports?

Like the initial rebuttal that this was "worst case" when it wasn't?
Like the initial sidelining that the document was in any event "old". "old" as in earlier this month
Like the Downing Street smear that the Yellowhammer report was "leaked", with a smack of treachery, by "former" government ministers. Whom we now discover would not have had access to the Report given its recent publication.

What we supporters of Remain want for our very good Brexiteer friends in Britain is a form of democracy where the Public is not lied to and indeed where the British public is shown enough respect to be given access to information and study on what may be happening to them, their families and their businesses over the next couple of months.

It is healthy that the likes of Gospel argue about whether the "base" estimate (not the "worst-case" lie ) allows for mitigating measures, what those measures would be and what the later cost of any such measures might be.

I really do wish an informed democracy for the UK. Where public debate can be informed by taxpayer-funded research. Rather than by lies, half truths and exhortations to "believe". Our very good, democracy-loving Brexiteer friends deserve no less.

shereblue wrote:It is healthy that the likes of Gospel argue about whether the "base" estimate (not the "worst-case" lie ) allows for mitigating measures, what those measures would be and what the later cost of any such measures might be.

I really do wish an informed democracy for the UK. Where public debate can be informed by taxpayer-funded research. Rather than by lies, half truths and exhortations to "believe". Our very good, democracy-loving Brexiteer friends deserve no less.

The Government are making up for lost ground with regards to no-deal arrangements - thanks largely due to Hammond being shown the door. I don't really care about the politics of the leak.

Gospel wrote:

shereblue wrote:It is healthy that the likes of Gospel argue about whether the "base" estimate (not the "worst-case" lie ) allows for mitigating measures, what those measures would be and what the later cost of any such measures might be.

I really do wish an informed democracy for the UK. Where public debate can be informed by taxpayer-funded research. Rather than by lies, half truths and exhortations to "believe". Our very good, democracy-loving Brexiteer friends deserve no less.

The Government are making up for lost ground with regards to no-deal arrangements - thanks largely due to Hammond being shown the door. I don't really care about the politics of the leak.

My point goes much deeper than what you call the "politics of the leak". I believe that democracy flourishes when information is not suppressed and when the public is sufficiently respected to enable debate to be based on shared information rather than mere assertion supported by soviet-style secrecy.

When you express an opinion about the mitigation of base-level "no deal" predictions. I would like to think that you (and all my very good Brexiteer friends) can be confident that your opinions have not been manipulated as a result of suppressed information.

Mere vote counting in Russia or Zim has rarely impressed me.

For example, the Irish government has produced several reports on the probable economic effects of a hard Brexit on Ireland. In the UK the electorate is reduced to partial leaks which detail some of the effects, but not the economic analysis on the causes of those effects.

That said, given how the UK media and politicians play wild and loose with the Irish reports, God knows what they'd do with ones about their own country.

shereblue wrote:

Gospel wrote:

shereblue wrote:It is healthy that the likes of Gospel argue about whether the "base" estimate (not the "worst-case" lie ) allows for mitigating measures, what those measures would be and what the later cost of any such measures might be.

I really do wish an informed democracy for the UK. Where public debate can be informed by taxpayer-funded research. Rather than by lies, half truths and exhortations to "believe". Our very good, democracy-loving Brexiteer friends deserve no less.

The Government are making up for lost ground with regards to no-deal arrangements - thanks largely due to Hammond being shown the door. I don't really care about the politics of the leak.

My point goes much deeper than what you call the "politics of the leak". I believe that democracy flourishes when information is not suppressed and when the public is sufficiently respected to enable debate to be based on shared information rather than mere assertion supported by soviet-style secrecy.

When you express an opinion about the mitigation of base-level "no deal" predictions. I would like to think that you (and all my very good Brexiteer friends) can be confident that your opinions have not been manipulated as a result of suppressed information.

Mere vote counting in Russia or Zim has rarely impressed me.

You don't make deeper points. You just post sanctimonious drivel.

c69 wrote:

Mullet 2 wrote:

slick wrote:

IIRC, Slick is a drinking buddy of Raab's which makes it understandable that he's a little touchy about Raab being slagged off on here.

Just to clear this up for any future conversations. He's a very old mate who I've known since we were 15. Our mums are close and my dad helped him through some rough times when we were younger.

It annoys me when folk throw uninformed and ignorent comments about him. He has a brilliant intellect and is a very rounded and loyal individual in his private life. Throwaway comments by people who will never achieve what he has get on my nerves as do intelligent and high achieving people like TSG acting like a teenage twitter mob when his name comes up.

I also happen to think he is a pretty average politician and a poor communicator who is doing untold damage to our country. I certainly don't get touchy with folk slagging him about that, and I'm quite happy to do it myself.

He's also an ignorant cúnt and cheerleader for one of the most idiotic decisions a country has ever made and a dangerous liar.

But it's nice you lads played soggy biscuit

Slick that has to be one of the most cringeworthy posts I jave ever read on this forum. If this man is such an itellect then how the feck did he not realise the importance of Dover and Calais? That example alone was one of the most ignorant comments from a government minister that therw has ever been. He should be nowherw government with such a poor grasp of the UK's trade and borders.
He is a fool.

Mr Raab told a technology conference on Wednesday: "We want a bespoke arrangement in goods which recognises the peculiar, frankly, geographic, economic entity that is the United Kingdom.

"We are, and I hadn't quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.

"And that's one of the reasons why, and there's been a lot of controversy about this, but one of the reasons why we wanted to make sure that we have a very specific and very proximate relationship with the EU to ensure frictionless trade at the border, particularly for just-in-time manufacturing goods whether it's pharmaceutical goods or perishable goods like food."

"I don't think it's a question so much of the risk of major shortages but I think probably the average consumer might not be aware of the full extent to which the choice of goods that we have in the stores are dependent on one or two very specific trade routes."

Hardly fits the "raab doesn't even know Dover is important" narrative really.

Focus on the adverse headlines alone if it fits the narrative...