Planet Rugby Forum

haunch wrote:

sewa wrote:

haunch wrote:I wonder if the EU would pay their pensions. Seems reasonable .

If not they should change them to a similar pension to MP's so no transfers are needed.

They were hired to work on your behalf in Brussels, you think its an honorable position to take to abandon them and not pay your former employees pensions? Just hope someone else takes care of it and if not fook them?

Ideally they should have been paying for their own pensions like the rest of us.
But yeah if the law said the EU should pay them their pensions I would not let honour get in the way.
We have been paying enough into the EU over the years for me not to feel too scummy.

The Sun God wrote: Did you say that while wearing a flat cap with a copy of the Express rolled up under your arm ?

haunch wrote:

The Sun God wrote: Did you say that while wearing a flat cap with a copy of the Express rolled up under your arm ?

Up my bum. They don't seem too concerned with honour when it comes to things we helped pay for like galileo, we should play the same game.

camroc1 wrote:

haunch wrote:

The Sun God wrote: Did you say that while wearing a flat cap with a copy of the Express rolled up under your arm ?

Up my bum. They don't seem too concerned with honour when it comes to things we helped pay for like galileo, we should play the same game.

You're the guys who want "third country" status.

The Sun God wrote:Question answered......https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... rexit-bill .......next please.

bimboman wrote:

rfurlong wrote:

bimboman wrote:

SamShark wrote:

bimboman wrote:No answer again Sam, you claimed there was nuance , what’s the nuance on paying for a non existent transition period , remember this is tax payer funds.

I've answered above Bimbo, before you posted this. Wasn't aware there was a 5 minute time-limit to reply to your posts.

There isn't any, ANY, objective observer that thinks that refusal to pay the so called "divorce bill" is a simple decision which will make Britain £39bn better off, with no other implications to be considered.

Stop insulting everyone and get a grip.

Implications indeed, irrelevant to the very simple question which you can’t or won’t answer , should we pay for membership “benefits” within a transitional period if there isn’t a transitional period? This is not science.

lets follow your 'logic' for the craic.....

UK gets a discount on the €39bn due to a crash out on 31st October
2 years transition at €8bn net UK contribution pa = €16bn discount
Therefore remaining €23bn immediately payable upon the event of a crash out

Are you accepting that the UK will owe the EU €23bn on foot of a no-deal exit?

Can you be clear with the bored that you accept that this €23bn debt/financial commitment remains in the event of no deal? Do you accept that its payment will be a condition (alongside Irish border and EU citizens rights) of any future trade agreement between UK and EU?

Would be great if you could clear this up for everyone....

I’ve little interest in discussing a minutiae with you just so you can eventually pick up on a maths mistake etc. The 39 included 2.5 years payments from March so I think about 20 to be discussed.

If you’re stating that the payment will be a “condition” for any further agreements, then good for you. I’ve said not commented on nothing of the sort.

If we are now attaching the payment of 20 billion to the future relationship btw, I’d say job done Boris.

Legally very difficult given the special legal entitlements MEPs have and how their pensions are legally arranged.

Lorthern Nights wrote:

The Sun God wrote:Question answered......https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... rexit-bill .......next please.

I seem to remember Iceland told the UK and Dutch to get fooked back when their banks collapsed. Think its all sorted now but took a number of years before they paid it back but initially it was get stuffed and they were threatened with various punitive measures which didn't materialise.

I would agree with the EU's stance but i don't think it will match up to the reality, in the same way Boris wont be walking away from the entire £39bn it will be a negotiated settlement no matter what the loons on here think, from either side of the spectrum.

The Sun God wrote:

Lorthern Nights wrote:

The Sun God wrote:Question answered......https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... rexit-bill .......next please.

I seem to remember Iceland told the UK and Dutch to get fooked back when their banks collapsed. Think its all sorted now but took a number of years before they paid it back but initially it was get stuffed and they were threatened with various punitive measures which didn't materialise.

I would agree with the EU's stance but i don't think it will match up to the reality, in the same way Boris wont be walking away from the entire £39bn it will be a negotiated settlement no matter what the loons on here think, from either side of the spectrum.

They certainly did tell the UK and the Dutch to swing for it but those issues were eventually resolved and Iceland re-entered the Capital markets less than 5 years after the crisis in a limited capacity. At that stage holders of Icelandic paper were hedge funds who had bought the debt for cents on the dollar.
you got to remember though that Iceland is a nation of 300K people, totally insignificant compared to the UK.

But you are correct, money doesn't have emotions or a memory. It doesn't take things personally and neither do the institutions that trade sovereign bonds. if the credit agencies have the necessary rating attached to a sovereign, traders will buy it.

sewa wrote:https://twitter.com/OGMurphy1/status/11 ... 4835765249

Since Brexit the EU has signed trade deals with
1. Canada
2. Japan
3. Brazil
4. Argentina
5. Paraguay
6. Uruguay
7. Vietnam

Countries totaling an additional 500 million people

The humble Melton Mowbray pork pie is at the centre of an unlikely political dispute about British exports.

Boris Johnson had said pork pies are exported to Thailand and Iceland, but cannot be to the US due to red tape.

However the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association said the pies were not even exported to Thailand and Iceland.

Downing Street insisted pies were exported, citing producer Walker & Son - but the company said this was not correct.

Walker & Son told the BBC it had previously exported a "tiny amount" of pork pies to Singapore, but had not done so for "at least two years" and is now "entirely focused on the UK market".

When asked if the company had ever exported to any other countries, the spokeswoman said she was unsure.

What did the PM say and why did he say it?
The topic of pork pies arose on Sunday at the G7 summit in Biarritz, France, when Mr Johnson was discussing a possible post-Brexit free trade deal with the US.

Mr Johnson spoke about trying to "prise open the American market" by removing restrictions on UK exports.

Offering an example of an American trade restriction, Mr Johnson said: "Melton Mowbray pork pies, which are sold in Thailand and in Iceland, are currently unable to enter the US market because of, I don't know, some sort of food and drug administration restriction."

What was the response?
Matthew O'Callaghan - who chairs the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association, which represents the pies' makers - told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that, as far as he knew, the claim was wrong.

Asked if Mr Johnson was right, Mr O'Callaghan replied: "Not really. With all of these things there is a little bit of give and take. We don't actually export to Thailand or Iceland."

When pressed again, Mr O'Callaghan said: "Not that I know of I'm afraid.

"It is certainly available in Iceland the shop."

Mr O'Callaghan said there was a possibility that pies could be exported frozen to the US or Australia and cooked in the country.

Speaking about trading with the US, Mr O'Callaghan said: "A Melton Mowbray pork pie is a delicate fresh meat product so the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), like most other countries in the world, are very aware of meat products and you have to go through all the regulations to get them over there.

"Because of the short shelf life it is not really viable economically."

UK 'first in line' for US trade deal, says Trump adviser
'No chance of US deal' if Brexit hits Irish accord
What trade deals has the UK done so far?
Downing Street's rebuttal
In response to Mr O'Callaghan, No 10 said the PM was correct when he said that Melton Mowbray pork pies are exported to Thailand and Iceland.

His remarks, it added, were based on a briefing note from the Department for International Trade, which said the company Walker & Sons exports small shipments to Iceland, Thailand, Singapore and the Caribbean.

What does Walker & Son say?
However, when contacted by the BBC, Walker & Son - which says it makes and bakes 80% of all of the UK's Melton Mowbray pork pies - said it no longer exports pork pies.

"We are entirely focused on the UK market," a spokeswoman said.

The company said it used to export a "tiny amount" to Singapore - but had not done so "for some time".

Image copyrightPA MEDIA/EPA
Image caption
Boris Johnson used the Melton Mowbray pork pie example in a bid to demonstrate US trade restriction
A spokeswoman said none had been exported for "at least two years".

She said those that were exported had to be sent out frozen and then baked on arrival.

In 2015, an executive at the firm said it sends small shipments abroad.

What makes a Melton Mowbray pork pie special?
Melton Mowbray pork pies are distinctive as they are made from uncured pork, to ensure the inside is grey in colour.

The Melton Mowbray pork pie has special protected geographical status under EU rules, similar to Stilton cheese or Champagne.

It means only producers making pork pies using the traditional recipe and in the vicinity of Melton Mowbray can use the town's name.

After Mr Johnson's pork pie remarks, Rutland and Melton MP Sir Alan Duncan posted a series of tweets expressing support for the opportunity to export the famous food to the US.

Skip Twitter post by @AlanDuncanMP

Sir Alan Duncan MP
✔
@AlanDuncanMP
US here we come! Melton Mowbray pork pies are a million times better than McDonald’s! US get ready for good eat-in in all US towns! @meltontimes @leicslive

View image on Twitter
105
13:51 - 25 Aug 2019
Twitter Ads information and privacy
531 people are talking about this
Report
End of Twitter post by @AlanDuncanMP
During the Tory leadership contest earlier this year, Mr Johnson waved an Isle of Man kipper at the final hustings and claimed EU regulations require kipper suppliers to keep their products cool with ice pillows when they are delivered.

However, the EU rule covers fresh fish and not smoked products, such as kippers, and it is for national governments to set any rules.

bimboman wrote:

sewa wrote:https://twitter.com/OGMurphy1/status/11 ... 4835765249

Since Brexit the EU has signed trade deals with
1. Canada
2. Japan
3. Brazil
4. Argentina
5. Paraguay
6. Uruguay
7. Vietnam

Countries totaling an additional 500 million people

“Signed” , the South America deal hasn’t been passed and is
Looking likely to be vetoed.

Rinkals wrote:

bimboman wrote:

sewa wrote:https://twitter.com/OGMurphy1/status/11 ... 4835765249

Since Brexit the EU has signed trade deals with
1. Canada
2. Japan
3. Brazil
4. Argentina
5. Paraguay
6. Uruguay
7. Vietnam

Countries totaling an additional 500 million people

“Signed” , the South America deal hasn’t been passed and is
Looking likely to be vetoed.

Cool.

How many million people has the UK signed up for?

Leinster in London wrote:Oh dear, Boris caught out telling porkies, again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49470831

The final comment is "Because of the short shelf life it is not really viable economically."

The humble Melton Mowbray pork pie is at the centre of an unlikely political dispute about British exports.

Boris Johnson had said pork pies are exported to Thailand and Iceland, but cannot be to the US due to red tape.

However the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association said the pies were not even exported to Thailand and Iceland.

Downing Street insisted pies were exported, citing producer Walker & Son - but the company said this was not correct.

Walker & Son told the BBC it had previously exported a "tiny amount" of pork pies to Singapore, but had not done so for "at least two years" and is now "entirely focused on the UK market".

When asked if the company had ever exported to any other countries, the spokeswoman said she was unsure.

What did the PM say and why did he say it?
The topic of pork pies arose on Sunday at the G7 summit in Biarritz, France, when Mr Johnson was discussing a possible post-Brexit free trade deal with the US.

Mr Johnson spoke about trying to "prise open the American market" by removing restrictions on UK exports.

Offering an example of an American trade restriction, Mr Johnson said: "Melton Mowbray pork pies, which are sold in Thailand and in Iceland, are currently unable to enter the US market because of, I don't know, some sort of food and drug administration restriction."

What was the response?
Matthew O'Callaghan - who chairs the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association, which represents the pies' makers - told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that, as far as he knew, the claim was wrong.

Asked if Mr Johnson was right, Mr O'Callaghan replied: "Not really. With all of these things there is a little bit of give and take. We don't actually export to Thailand or Iceland."

When pressed again, Mr O'Callaghan said: "Not that I know of I'm afraid.

"It is certainly available in Iceland the shop."

Mr O'Callaghan said there was a possibility that pies could be exported frozen to the US or Australia and cooked in the country.

Speaking about trading with the US, Mr O'Callaghan said: "A Melton Mowbray pork pie is a delicate fresh meat product so the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), like most other countries in the world, are very aware of meat products and you have to go through all the regulations to get them over there.

"Because of the short shelf life it is not really viable economically."

UK 'first in line' for US trade deal, says Trump adviser
'No chance of US deal' if Brexit hits Irish accord
What trade deals has the UK done so far?
Downing Street's rebuttal
In response to Mr O'Callaghan, No 10 said the PM was correct when he said that Melton Mowbray pork pies are exported to Thailand and Iceland.

His remarks, it added, were based on a briefing note from the Department for International Trade, which said the company Walker & Sons exports small shipments to Iceland, Thailand, Singapore and the Caribbean.

What does Walker & Son say?
However, when contacted by the BBC, Walker & Son - which says it makes and bakes 80% of all of the UK's Melton Mowbray pork pies - said it no longer exports pork pies.

"We are entirely focused on the UK market," a spokeswoman said.

The company said it used to export a "tiny amount" to Singapore - but had not done so "for some time".

Image copyrightPA MEDIA/EPA
Image caption
Boris Johnson used the Melton Mowbray pork pie example in a bid to demonstrate US trade restriction
A spokeswoman said none had been exported for "at least two years".

She said those that were exported had to be sent out frozen and then baked on arrival.

In 2015, an executive at the firm said it sends small shipments abroad.

What makes a Melton Mowbray pork pie special?
Melton Mowbray pork pies are distinctive as they are made from uncured pork, to ensure the inside is grey in colour.

The Melton Mowbray pork pie has special protected geographical status under EU rules, similar to Stilton cheese or Champagne.

It means only producers making pork pies using the traditional recipe and in the vicinity of Melton Mowbray can use the town's name.

After Mr Johnson's pork pie remarks, Rutland and Melton MP Sir Alan Duncan posted a series of tweets expressing support for the opportunity to export the famous food to the US.

Skip Twitter post by @AlanDuncanMP

Sir Alan Duncan MP
✔
@AlanDuncanMP
US here we come! Melton Mowbray pork pies are a million times better than McDonald’s! US get ready for good eat-in in all US towns! @meltontimes @leicslive

View image on Twitter
105
13:51 - 25 Aug 2019
Twitter Ads information and privacy
531 people are talking about this
Report
End of Twitter post by @AlanDuncanMP
During the Tory leadership contest earlier this year, Mr Johnson waved an Isle of Man kipper at the final hustings and claimed EU regulations require kipper suppliers to keep their products cool with ice pillows when they are delivered.

However, the EU rule covers fresh fish and not smoked products, such as kippers, and it is for national governments to set any rules.

Leinster in London wrote:Oh dear, Boris caught out telling porkies, again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49470831

The final comment is "Because of the short shelf life it is not really viable economically."

The humble Melton Mowbray pork pie is at the centre of an unlikely political dispute about British exports.

Boris Johnson had said pork pies are exported to Thailand and Iceland, but cannot be to the US due to red tape.

However the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association said the pies were not even exported to Thailand and Iceland.

Downing Street insisted pies were exported, citing producer Walker & Son - but the company said this was not correct.

Walker & Son told the BBC it had previously exported a "tiny amount" of pork pies to Singapore, but had not done so for "at least two years" and is now "entirely focused on the UK market".

When asked if the company had ever exported to any other countries, the spokeswoman said she was unsure.

What did the PM say and why did he say it?
The topic of pork pies arose on Sunday at the G7 summit in Biarritz, France, when Mr Johnson was discussing a possible post-Brexit free trade deal with the US.

Mr Johnson spoke about trying to "prise open the American market" by removing restrictions on UK exports.

Offering an example of an American trade restriction, Mr Johnson said: "Melton Mowbray pork pies, which are sold in Thailand and in Iceland, are currently unable to enter the US market because of, I don't know, some sort of food and drug administration restriction."

What was the response?
Matthew O'Callaghan - who chairs the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association, which represents the pies' makers - told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that, as far as he knew, the claim was wrong.

Asked if Mr Johnson was right, Mr O'Callaghan replied: "Not really. With all of these things there is a little bit of give and take. We don't actually export to Thailand or Iceland."

When pressed again, Mr O'Callaghan said: "Not that I know of I'm afraid.

"It is certainly available in Iceland the shop."

Mr O'Callaghan said there was a possibility that pies could be exported frozen to the US or Australia and cooked in the country.

Speaking about trading with the US, Mr O'Callaghan said: "A Melton Mowbray pork pie is a delicate fresh meat product so the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), like most other countries in the world, are very aware of meat products and you have to go through all the regulations to get them over there.

"Because of the short shelf life it is not really viable economically."

UK 'first in line' for US trade deal, says Trump adviser
'No chance of US deal' if Brexit hits Irish accord
What trade deals has the UK done so far?
Downing Street's rebuttal
In response to Mr O'Callaghan, No 10 said the PM was correct when he said that Melton Mowbray pork pies are exported to Thailand and Iceland.

His remarks, it added, were based on a briefing note from the Department for International Trade, which said the company Walker & Sons exports small shipments to Iceland, Thailand, Singapore and the Caribbean.

What does Walker & Son say?
However, when contacted by the BBC, Walker & Son - which says it makes and bakes 80% of all of the UK's Melton Mowbray pork pies - said it no longer exports pork pies.

"We are entirely focused on the UK market," a spokeswoman said.

The company said it used to export a "tiny amount" to Singapore - but had not done so "for some time".

Image copyrightPA MEDIA/EPA
Image caption
Boris Johnson used the Melton Mowbray pork pie example in a bid to demonstrate US trade restriction
A spokeswoman said none had been exported for "at least two years".

She said those that were exported had to be sent out frozen and then baked on arrival.

In 2015, an executive at the firm said it sends small shipments abroad.

What makes a Melton Mowbray pork pie special?
Melton Mowbray pork pies are distinctive as they are made from uncured pork, to ensure the inside is grey in colour.

The Melton Mowbray pork pie has special protected geographical status under EU rules, similar to Stilton cheese or Champagne.

It means only producers making pork pies using the traditional recipe and in the vicinity of Melton Mowbray can use the town's name.

After Mr Johnson's pork pie remarks, Rutland and Melton MP Sir Alan Duncan posted a series of tweets expressing support for the opportunity to export the famous food to the US.

Skip Twitter post by @AlanDuncanMP

Sir Alan Duncan MP
✔
@AlanDuncanMP
US here we come! Melton Mowbray pork pies are a million times better than McDonald’s! US get ready for good eat-in in all US towns! @meltontimes @leicslive

View image on Twitter
105
13:51 - 25 Aug 2019
Twitter Ads information and privacy
531 people are talking about this
Report
End of Twitter post by @AlanDuncanMP
During the Tory leadership contest earlier this year, Mr Johnson waved an Isle of Man kipper at the final hustings and claimed EU regulations require kipper suppliers to keep their products cool with ice pillows when they are delivered.

However, the EU rule covers fresh fish and not smoked products, such as kippers, and it is for national governments to set any rules.

redderneck wrote:This Irish Bank Paper of which you speak.

Was it fresh off the roll or fresh off the arse?

A team of experts, including a former high-ranking British official in the European Commission, has drawn up a plan to replace the Northern Ireland backstop

Its core principle is that the U.K. and EU are free to have distinct regulatory systems and customs regimes, but the U.K. and Ireland would make it a criminal offense to knowingly export goods across the Irish border that breach regulatory rules on the other side of the frontier.

To avoid customs checks at the border, the proposal envisages a network of "EU Trade Centres" in the U.K. and Ireland, but away from the border, in which "all goods destined for the EU or the U.K. respectively via Northern Ireland would be processed, including payment of duties and the like, before they actually left British or Irish territory."

Based on my experience of Basque cuisine, I doubt that the Melton Mowbray chairman should fear the production of "Melton Mowbray" Pork Pies in Biarritz, post "no deal".

More likely that low grade UK wineries such as Denbies will avail themselves of the "champagne" moniker and export it to fellow knock off economies such as China.

SamShark wrote:My selective copy and pasting below - full article linked.

Is this new/helpful?

Regardless Boris is no doing a lot of chatting about the backstop despite many of his ERG chums saying even getting rid of the backstop is not enough. Presumably the threat of no deal may be enough to overcome ERG opposition with some Labour folk?

A team of experts, including a former high-ranking British official in the European Commission, has drawn up a plan to replace the Northern Ireland backstop

Its core principle is that the U.K. and EU are free to have distinct regulatory systems and customs regimes, but the U.K. and Ireland would make it a criminal offense to knowingly export goods across the Irish border that breach regulatory rules on the other side of the frontier.

To avoid customs checks at the border, the proposal envisages a network of "EU Trade Centres" in the U.K. and Ireland, but away from the border, in which "all goods destined for the EU or the U.K. respectively via Northern Ireland would be processed, including payment of duties and the like, before they actually left British or Irish territory."

https://www.politico.eu/article/experts ... u-ireland/

bimboman wrote:So it’s a treaty aimed at pretence? We’re finally agreed then. Best to aim for something better written next time then.

SamShark wrote:Going to be amusing (or more likely completely shit and upsetting) to see what comes out of tomorrow's meeting of opposition parties and others opposed to no deal.

The Lib Dems appear to have sacked off the idea of a vote of no confidence, which may unfortunately be wise if Corbyn will only play ball if he gets to be PM, which obviously isn't going to be acceptable to any Tory rebels and many others.

So, can and will Corbyn scupper other tactics?

I'm going to make a wild guess that nothing comes of this - they will all be slagging each other off on Twitter later in the day.

You could argue all sorts of people are being inflexible here, but this would be resolved by now with any other Labour leader.

henry wrote:

bimboman wrote:So it’s a treaty aimed at pretence? We’re finally agreed then. Best to aim for something better written next time then.

That level of flippancy really bolsters your position.

bimboman wrote:

henry wrote:

bimboman wrote:So it’s a treaty aimed at pretence? We’re finally agreed then. Best to aim for something better written next time then.

That level of flippancy really bolsters your position.

Thanks.

fishfoodie wrote:

SamShark wrote:Going to be amusing (or more likely completely shit and upsetting) to see what comes out of tomorrow's meeting of opposition parties and others opposed to no deal.

The Lib Dems appear to have sacked off the idea of a vote of no confidence, which may unfortunately be wise if Corbyn will only play ball if he gets to be PM, which obviously isn't going to be acceptable to any Tory rebels and many others.

So, can and will Corbyn scupper other tactics?

I'm going to make a wild guess that nothing comes of this - they will all be slagging each other off on Twitter later in the day.

You could argue all sorts of people are being inflexible here, but this would be resolved by now with any other Labour leader.

Assuming that Comrade Corbyns objective is #10; he'd be mad to lose his one opportunity to win that prize, just because he's unwilling to give up the job of interim leader, before a GE !

I can understand other MPs being dubious that he'd keep to the agreed script, once he'd been gotten into #10.

What would it realistically cost him to surrender the role to the likes of Ken Clarke; who won't even be running in the GE he'd be calling ?

SamShark wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:

SamShark wrote:Going to be amusing (or more likely completely shit and upsetting) to see what comes out of tomorrow's meeting of opposition parties and others opposed to no deal.

The Lib Dems appear to have sacked off the idea of a vote of no confidence, which may unfortunately be wise if Corbyn will only play ball if he gets to be PM, which obviously isn't going to be acceptable to any Tory rebels and many others.

So, can and will Corbyn scupper other tactics?

I'm going to make a wild guess that nothing comes of this - they will all be slagging each other off on Twitter later in the day.

You could argue all sorts of people are being inflexible here, but this would be resolved by now with any other Labour leader.

Assuming that Comrade Corbyns objective is #10; he'd be mad to lose his one opportunity to win that prize, just because he's unwilling to give up the job of interim leader, before a GE !

I can understand other MPs being dubious that he'd keep to the agreed script, once he'd been gotten into #10.

What would it realistically cost him to surrender the role to the likes of Ken Clarke; who won't even be running in the GE he'd be calling ?

My worry is that he actually wants no deal, but only a "Tory no deal" obviously.

I think deep down he realises he is too unpopular to win a GE now, but maybe after an awful shitstorm he could.

So best just to sabotage now and hope Boris fucks it all up.

Maybe I'm wrong, but like you I see no threat to him in Ken Clarke doing a brief stint, unless he actually fears the likely GE.

A GE looks pretty good to Boris no doubt. He needs a solid 30 or so per cent of the vote and hope Labour bombs in the cities and other remainey areas, which seems likely.

fishfoodie wrote:

SamShark wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:

SamShark wrote:Going to be amusing (or more likely completely shit and upsetting) to see what comes out of tomorrow's meeting of opposition parties and others opposed to no deal.

The Lib Dems appear to have sacked off the idea of a vote of no confidence, which may unfortunately be wise if Corbyn will only play ball if he gets to be PM, which obviously isn't going to be acceptable to any Tory rebels and many others.

So, can and will Corbyn scupper other tactics?

I'm going to make a wild guess that nothing comes of this - they will all be slagging each other off on Twitter later in the day.

You could argue all sorts of people are being inflexible here, but this would be resolved by now with any other Labour leader.

Assuming that Comrade Corbyns objective is #10; he'd be mad to lose his one opportunity to win that prize, just because he's unwilling to give up the job of interim leader, before a GE !

I can understand other MPs being dubious that he'd keep to the agreed script, once he'd been gotten into #10.

What would it realistically cost him to surrender the role to the likes of Ken Clarke; who won't even be running in the GE he'd be calling ?

My worry is that he actually wants no deal, but only a "Tory no deal" obviously.

I think deep down he realises he is too unpopular to win a GE now, but maybe after an awful shitstorm he could.

So best just to sabotage now and hope Boris fucks it all up.

Maybe I'm wrong, but like you I see no threat to him in Ken Clarke doing a brief stint, unless he actually fears the likely GE.

A GE looks pretty good to Boris no doubt. He needs a solid 30 or so per cent of the vote and hope Labour bombs in the cities and other remainey areas, which seems likely.

Yeah; as ever it's impossible to work out what the squirrels operating the controls inside his head are planning

He probably does want a H.E. but he doesn't want to admit so, but then why isn't he doing a better job combating the Tory narrative, that when it all turns to shit, it'll be the EUs fault ?

If he doesn't get a GE soon, he'll lose half his party to the Lib Dems, or A.N Other, by the time there is a GE, because they'll have no doubt that he wants Leave. If he pushes for a GE, he'll at least stop that momentum, & maybe he can see the Tory vote divided by Farrages Fascists.

He can legitimately hope to get a Coalition Government with the SNP & sundry others, but time isn't his friend right now, & if he loses another GE to this shithouse pack of Tories, he'll be out on his ear.

bimboman wrote:

henry wrote:

bimboman wrote:So it’s a treaty aimed at pretence? We’re finally agreed then. Best to aim for something better written next time then.

That level of flippancy really bolsters your position.

Thanks.

rfurlong wrote:

SamShark wrote:My selective copy and pasting below - full article linked.

Is this new/helpful?

Regardless Boris is no doing a lot of chatting about the backstop despite many of his ERG chums saying even getting rid of the backstop is not enough. Presumably the threat of no deal may be enough to overcome ERG opposition with some Labour folk?

A team of experts, including a former high-ranking British official in the European Commission, has drawn up a plan to replace the Northern Ireland backstop

Its core principle is that the U.K. and EU are free to have distinct regulatory systems and customs regimes, but the U.K. and Ireland would make it a criminal offense to knowingly export goods across the Irish border that breach regulatory rules on the other side of the frontier.

To avoid customs checks at the border, the proposal envisages a network of "EU Trade Centres" in the U.K. and Ireland, but away from the border, in which "all goods destined for the EU or the U.K. respectively via Northern Ireland would be processed, including payment of duties and the like, before they actually left British or Irish territory."

https://www.politico.eu/article/experts ... u-ireland/

whoop-de-fvcking-doooo ...... yet another group of British academics catastrophically fail to understand the point of the GFA and why the Tory red-line Brexit is incompatible with it.

This isn't (just) about trade folks. The GFA basically brought an end to the conflict on these islands by agreeing a constructively ambiguous framework that allowed NI nationalists to 'pretend' they were part of an ever converging all-Ireland economic, cultural and political arrangement...... largely because both the UK and Ireland were in the SM and CU, together.

That pretence is being destroyed by Tory red lines, which will ultimately lead to a border poll in the next 5 years and the (inevitable violent) withdrawal of NI from the Union. We are going to see an outbreak of nationalist violence following a crash out brexit, followed by a subsequent breakout of loyalist violence in a few years time, when those thick cvnts realise they've been hoist by their own petard, and have put NI on an inexorable road to a united Ireland (which will precipitate another 30 years of violence).

You can keep your network of "EU Trade Centres in the UK and Ireland" you bunch of clowns ....... just put the checks in Belfast and Larne as per the original backstop, and ALL Britains problems are solved ..... apart from the illogical nonsense of a bunch of flat earth creationists and sectarian bigots in the DUP and ERG.

Cop the fvck on UK ........ jesus h. christ

Edit: Sam - not aimed at you .... just the 'backstop version 1.0 slow learners' out there

EverReady wrote:The pie stupidity must be on purpose. Cut price Trump antics to get people wagging fingers and tongues

SamShark wrote:My selective copy and pasting below - full article linked.

Is this new/helpful?

Regardless Boris is no doing a lot of chatting about the backstop despite many of his ERG chums saying even getting rid of the backstop is not enough. Presumably the threat of no deal may be enough to overcome ERG opposition with some Labour folk?

A team of experts, including a former high-ranking British official in the European Commission, has drawn up a plan to replace the Northern Ireland backstop

Its core principle is that the U.K. and EU are free to have distinct regulatory systems and customs regimes, but the U.K. and Ireland would make it a criminal offense to knowingly export goods across the Irish border that breach regulatory rules on the other side of the frontier.

To avoid customs checks at the border, the proposal envisages a network of "EU Trade Centres" in the U.K. and Ireland, but away from the border, in which "all goods destined for the EU or the U.K. respectively via Northern Ireland would be processed, including payment of duties and the like, before they actually left British or Irish territory."

https://www.politico.eu/article/experts ... u-ireland/

4071 wrote:

SamShark wrote:My selective copy and pasting below - full article linked.

Is this new/helpful?

Regardless Boris is no doing a lot of chatting about the backstop despite many of his ERG chums saying even getting rid of the backstop is not enough. Presumably the threat of no deal may be enough to overcome ERG opposition with some Labour folk?

A team of experts, including a former high-ranking British official in the European Commission, has drawn up a plan to replace the Northern Ireland backstop

Its core principle is that the U.K. and EU are free to have distinct regulatory systems and customs regimes, but the U.K. and Ireland would make it a criminal offense to knowingly export goods across the Irish border that breach regulatory rules on the other side of the frontier.

To avoid customs checks at the border, the proposal envisages a network of "EU Trade Centres" in the U.K. and Ireland, but away from the border, in which "all goods destined for the EU or the U.K. respectively via Northern Ireland would be processed, including payment of duties and the like, before they actually left British or Irish territory."

https://www.politico.eu/article/experts ... u-ireland/

So the proposal would be... to make smuggling illegal....?

Jeremy Corbyn
@jeremycorbyn
I will do everything I can to stop a no-deal bankers’ Brexit.