Planet Rugby Forum

Sawtooth the Beaver wrote:A personal best of 10.49 metres per second in a 40-metre speed test which would equate to a time of 9.53 seconds over 100 metres.

So yeah, not even close.

I'm not sure what you think this proves, but it doesn't prove anything re May vs Walker.

The whole 100m timed Sprint and 40m times Sprint I completely irrelevant when it comes to rugby anyway(except for the occasional length of the pitch breakaway)

Three useful things for a winger (assuming they don't have flippers for hands) - positioning, timing, and acceleration

c69 wrote:

Sawtooth the Beaver wrote:A personal best of 10.49 metres per second in a 40-metre speed test which would equate to a time of 9.53 seconds over 100 metres.

So yeah, not even close.

https://www.givemesport.com/1451441-tac ... r-bellerin

You are a moron

Haha, ouch. Hadn't seen that article, great read. Interesting on the Howlett stat too, didn't Spies run 10.3?

Saint wrote:The whole 100m timed Sprint and 40m times Sprint I completely irrelevant when it comes to rugby anyway(except for the occasional length of the pitch breakaway)

Three useful things for a winger (assuming they don't have flippers for hands) - positioning, timing, and acceleration

No. Acceleration is only useful if you max speed is something worth talking about.

r/rugbyunions meme game is strong

great story about may's first tour on the last house of rugby with hask and marler

https://youtu.be/iCYWr7VXOa0?t=2797

c69 wrote:

Sawtooth the Beaver wrote:A personal best of 10.49 metres per second in a 40-metre speed test which would equate to a time of 9.53 seconds over 100 metres.

So yeah, not even close.

https://www.givemesport.com/1451441-tac ... r-bellerin

You are a moron

May clocked that with a hammie injury? Christ...

Saint wrote:The whole 100m timed Sprint and 40m times Sprint I completely irrelevant when it comes to rugby anyway(except for the occasional length of the pitch breakaway)

Three useful things for a winger (assuming they don't have flippers for hands) - positioning, timing, and acceleration

Unless it's Olympics type speed.

Akkerman wrote:great story about may's first tour on the last house of rugby with hask and marler

https://youtu.be/iCYWr7VXOa0?t=2797

That is superb.

Zakar wrote:

Saint wrote:The whole 100m timed Sprint and 40m times Sprint I completely irrelevant when it comes to rugby anyway(except for the occasional length of the pitch breakaway)

Three useful things for a winger (assuming they don't have flippers for hands) - positioning, timing, and acceleration

No. Acceleration is only useful if you max speed is something worth talking about.

Can't agree. Jason Robinson, anyone?

It's basic physics.

Acceleration is a person's ability to gain speed. If you max speed is low, you might have fantastic acceleration but will get run down very quickly. Plenty of props actually have great acceleration, but hit their max speed in 4 steps.

For any other position, I'd rather have real burst and the ability to get up to speed very quickly. The quick twitch ability to accelerate is more important than long-speed for anyone else, even including full-back I'd suggest. As a winger though, you really want that top end speed. You can be very effective without it- see Jack Nowell- but when you have it, it's a game changer.

You have to know how to use it, as May now appears to do. Once you can use that long-speed you are tilting the field all of the time. Your inside backs have more gaps because the defensive line has to stretch. Your opposite number is playing shit or bust games every time he comes up to close down. The threat of it is so important. England's kicking game would be effective without May, but with his ability to turn on the turbos it is much more of a weapon.

I'd tend to think he is a very, very good winger in a purple patch rather than a great player. So few wingers sustain dominance though because almost all are reliant on having the gas that is only there when fully fit. If May proves to be able to maintain this speed for another couple of years, he'll continue to be a serious difference maker- especially in a team that still lacks a touch of precision when moving the ball wide.

JM2K6 wrote:

Zakar wrote:

Saint wrote:The whole 100m timed Sprint and 40m times Sprint I completely irrelevant when it comes to rugby anyway(except for the occasional length of the pitch breakaway)

Three useful things for a winger (assuming they don't have flippers for hands) - positioning, timing, and acceleration

No. Acceleration is only useful if you max speed is something worth talking about.

Can't agree. Jason Robinson, anyone?

It's actually pretty rare, even for an outside back, that they are genuinely tested in a straight line sprint over 50/60 metres. They'll either reach the line or get cut off by cover defence before that (obv pace makes the last bit easier, but even the fastest player can't make up for someone who's already ahead of them by 15m on an angle) whereas acceleration can create breaks or half breaks at any time.

As I recall Elton Flatley ran down Jason Robinson over about 50m, but insane speeds over distance are really the province of sevens players. He was in no way slow, but his game (certainly in Union) was about the initial burst of acceleration to beat the opposition, either on the outside or through the gap, allied to amazing footwork. This try is a prime example.

https://youtu.be/OMKV-qhNPso

He also had a great hand off, if you go back to some of his Wigan tries he's straight arming blokes way bigger than him flat onto their backs. It seems to be something of a forgotten art these days.

The Man Without Fear wrote:As I recall Elton Flatley ran down Jason Robinson over about 50m

Not quite, it was Flatley with the ball ahead of Robinson but Robinson didn't make any headway on catching him.

Jay Cee Gee wrote:

The Man Without Fear wrote:As I recall Elton Flatley ran down Jason Robinson over about 50m

Not quite, it was Flatley with the ball ahead of Robinson but Robinson didn't make any headway on catching him.

Why let facts get in the way of things?

Anyway, the general point stands.

Sharpens knives

The fact that, as England fans, we're even discussing a winger with similar-ish speed to Usain Bolt is fücken excellent considering we are the same fan base that had to watch the likes of Vainikolo, Banahan and 2004 Cohen on the wings.

How about Jonny May vs Christian Cullen?

EverReady wrote:How about Jonny May fück off. I am sick of hearing his name as if he is not still a bit shit

Still sore?

Jay Cee Gee wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

Zakar wrote:

Saint wrote:The whole 100m timed Sprint and 40m times Sprint I completely irrelevant when it comes to rugby anyway(except for the occasional length of the pitch breakaway)

Three useful things for a winger (assuming they don't have flippers for hands) - positioning, timing, and acceleration

No. Acceleration is only useful if you max speed is something worth talking about.

Can't agree. Jason Robinson, anyone?

It's actually pretty rare, even for an outside back, that they are genuinely tested in a straight line sprint over 50/60 metres. They'll either reach the line or get cut off by cover defence before that (obv pace makes the last bit easier, but even the fastest player can't make up for someone who's already ahead of them by 15m on an angle) whereas acceleration can create breaks or half breaks at any time.

Wasn't May tested over 50m just yesterday, when he proved to be (surprisingly) no faster than Owen Farrell and hooker Stuart McInally?

charltom wrote:

Jay Cee Gee wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

Zakar wrote:

Saint wrote:The whole 100m timed Sprint and 40m times Sprint I completely irrelevant when it comes to rugby anyway(except for the occasional length of the pitch breakaway)

Three useful things for a winger (assuming they don't have flippers for hands) - positioning, timing, and acceleration

No. Acceleration is only useful if you max speed is something worth talking about.

Can't agree. Jason Robinson, anyone?

It's actually pretty rare, even for an outside back, that they are genuinely tested in a straight line sprint over 50/60 metres. They'll either reach the line or get cut off by cover defence before that (obv pace makes the last bit easier, but even the fastest player can't make up for someone who's already ahead of them by 15m on an angle) whereas acceleration can create breaks or half breaks at any time.

Wasn't May tested over 50m just yesterday, when he proved to be (surprisingly) no faster than Owen Farrell and hooker Stuart McInally?

His attempted tackle on McInally was pathetic. Really dumb thinking. Was poor yesterday.

Every single May try in this tournament was either a clear unopposed run in to the try lineor just flop on the ball on the ground. My nan could've scored them all.

Dave Strettle

Super fast and can finish trys. Sounds like a world class winger to me.

AND-y wrote:Super fast and can finish trys. Sounds like a world class winger to me.

Or as most people call them, a winger

charltom wrote:

Jay Cee Gee wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

Zakar wrote:

Saint wrote:The whole 100m timed Sprint and 40m times Sprint I completely irrelevant when it comes to rugby anyway(except for the occasional length of the pitch breakaway)

Three useful things for a winger (assuming they don't have flippers for hands) - positioning, timing, and acceleration

No. Acceleration is only useful if you max speed is something worth talking about.

Can't agree. Jason Robinson, anyone?

It's actually pretty rare, even for an outside back, that they are genuinely tested in a straight line sprint over 50/60 metres. They'll either reach the line or get cut off by cover defence before that (obv pace makes the last bit easier, but even the fastest player can't make up for someone who's already ahead of them by 15m on an angle) whereas acceleration can create breaks or half breaks at any time.

Wasn't May tested over 50m just yesterday, when he proved to be (surprisingly) no faster than Owen Farrell and hooker Stuart McInally?

You mean when he overtook Farrell and caught up with McInally? He screwed up the tackle but if your takeaway from that was that he was no quicker then you must have been pissed before kick off

He also got bumped for Johnson’s try

Apparently "world class" wingers can get away with being completely unable to tackle a slower player running directly in front of them. As long as they can run quickly in space and dot the ball down, they are "world class".

https://twitter.com/SixNationsRugby/sta ... 7438791681

Mick Mannock wrote:

c69 wrote:Speed wise Nigel Walker eot

10.45 100m

Really - thought he was quicker, as in not far off sprint relay standard.
Didn't he run the sprint relay for Wales in a Commonwealth Games?

slick wrote:He also got bumped for Johnson’s try

err - Daly surely ?
see the gif on the Rugby gifs thread


he missed the tackle on McNally, that is true - but otherwise had a decent game, and a good tournament.

edit for Captain Grecian 2000 here - is this the bump you mean ?

He was also superb under the high ball, taking lots of contested kicks. One of the first names on the team sheet these days.

Seems like a strange player for people to take exception too? He's a total space cadet not a dick like Ashton or Armitage.

tc27 wrote:Seems like a strange player for people to take exception too? He's a total space cadet not a dick like Ashton or Armitage.

But he's English and good, an unforgivable crime

Chuckles1188 wrote:

tc27 wrote:Seems like a strange player for people to take exception too? He's a total space cadet not a dick like Ashton or Armitage.

But he's English and good, an unforgivable crime

Catch up he's actually shit now dontyaknow...

The trick here is evidently to make lots of confident assertions about the quality of players, so that when one of them encounters a really embarrassing counter example (Finn Russell) you can seamlessly switch to crowing about whichever one seems to have received some vaguely supporting evidence.

tc27 wrote:Seems like a strange player for people to take exception too? He's a total space cadet not a dick like Ashton or Armitage.

As I said on another thread, I think he is a good player. I also like him, from what I've seen and heard, exactly for the reasons you say above. I just don't think he has done enough consistently to be called world class and I don't think he was the best winger in the 6N.

Chuckles1188 wrote:

tc27 wrote:Seems like a strange player for people to take exception too? He's a total space cadet not a dick like Ashton or Armitage.

But he's English and good, an unforgivable crime

Yeah, like Curry, or Mako, or Itoje or Slade etc who most sane folk on here credit as being great players. Dear oh dear.

slick wrote:

Chuckles1188 wrote:

tc27 wrote:Seems like a strange player for people to take exception too? He's a total space cadet not a dick like Ashton or Armitage.

But he's English and good, an unforgivable crime

Yeah, like Curry, or Mako, or Itoje or Slade etc who most sane folk on here credit as being great players. Dear oh dear.

This is the first time Curry's really showed up to non-English fans so needs more time for the old instincts to kick in. Mako is widely seen as Welsh. Slade is also showing up pretty much for the first time. And as for Itoje, he's one of the most hated of the current crop of England players.

Also, irrational hatred is not rational, News at 10

Chuckles1188 wrote:

slick wrote:

Chuckles1188 wrote:

tc27 wrote:Seems like a strange player for people to take exception too? He's a total space cadet not a dick like Ashton or Armitage.

But he's English and good, an unforgivable crime

Yeah, like Curry, or Mako, or Itoje or Slade etc who most sane folk on here credit as being great players. Dear oh dear.

This is the first time Curry's really showed up to non-English fans so needs more time for the old instincts to kick in. Mako is widely seen as Welsh. Slade is also showing up pretty much for the first time. And as for Itoje, he's one of the most hated of the current crop of England players.

Also, irrational hatred is not rational, News at 10

I think maybe it's you that has the problem here.

So did we see any examples of Jonny May and George North competing for the ball in the air a few weeks ago? I suspect May's greater agility might well have given him the edge if the two came up against one another. Watching aerial contests closely over the course of the tournament, it appears that the player following up the ball often has an advantage as he can only estimate the trajectory of the ball quickly before jumping towards where he thinks it will be. The defender also has to take the oncoming player into consideration and all too often the following player gets off the ground first which is where the edge comes from. I miss Cuthbert playing for Wales. He wouldn't have got within a country mile of tackling May or Cokonisiga.

Chuckles1188 wrote:

tc27 wrote:Seems like a strange player for people to take exception too? He's a total space cadet not a dick like Ashton or Armitage.

But he's English and massively overhyped by supporters and press, an unforgivable crime

FTFY

Nobody is saying that he isn't a decent winger, but being on the end of a few run-ins and not f**king up every high ball for 12mths doesn't make you "world class" and definitely doesn't justify the hype train.