Home Office tell Shamina Begum to FCUK right off.

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Anonymous 1
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Home Office tell Shamina Begum to FCUK right off.

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Having heard the Interview with the ISIS breading bitch it's clear she is still a believer and as she says only wants to come back to the UK because we will take care of her latest baby. The government has to tell her to keep going forth and multiplying elsewhere


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181
Last edited by Anonymous 1 on Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by eldanielfire »

Anonymous. wrote:Having heard the Interview with the ISIS b bitch it's clear she is still a believer and as she says only wants to come back to the UK because we will take care of her latest baby.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181
I only speed read it in the metro (so many there is some details I'll need to take on board later), but yeah why she getting sympathy when she hasn't at all changed her beliefs and he only motivation for returning is free benefits now ISIS are crashing. Remember this idealogy means killing of anyone not of your branch of religion, slavery, beheadings for non-conformists, use of lethal force, gays being killed, suspected gays being killed, older single women being burnt alive for not be good slave material, letting slaves as young as 5 years old die of thirst and that is only the tip of evil things. What's more Begum appears to have no change in beliefs, except for free benefits.

A bit of me thinks Iraq seems to have the right idea about ISIS wives:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... en-of-isis
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by assfly »

She's a British citizen. She should go back to the UK and face trial.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by UncleFB »

eldanielfire wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:Having heard the Interview with the ISIS b bitch it's clear she is still a believer and as she says only wants to come back to the UK because we will take care of her latest baby.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181
I only speed read it in the metro (so many there is some details I'll need to take on board later), but yeah why she getting sympathy when she hasn't at all changed her beliefs and he only motivation for returning is free benefits now ISIS are crashing. Remember this idealogy means killing of anyone not of your branch of religion, slavery, beheadings for non-conformists, use of lethal force, gays being killed, suspected gays being killed, older single women being burnt alive for not be good slave material, letting slaves as young as 5 years old die of thirst and that is only the tip of evil things. What's more Begum appears to have no change in beliefs, except for free benefits.

A bit of me thinks Iraq seems to have the right idea about ISIS wives:


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... en-of-isis
I don't think that mimicking ISIS in the rule of law is the way to go about.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Crash_12 »

by virtue of the fact that you are foreign and chose to live in Isis territory there is a level of agency in what you did and more culpability
:thumbup:
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Clive Simms »

Couple of years ago this woman would've gleefully put a bullet in the brain of every British man, woman and child but now she wants to return to live in our society :lol: :lol:
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Keith »

And this is why we should bring back the death penalty
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by eldanielfire »

UncleFB wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:Having heard the Interview with the ISIS b bitch it's clear she is still a believer and as she says only wants to come back to the UK because we will take care of her latest baby.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181
I only speed read it in the metro (so many there is some details I'll need to take on board later), but yeah why she getting sympathy when she hasn't at all changed her beliefs and he only motivation for returning is free benefits now ISIS are crashing. Remember this idealogy means killing of anyone not of your branch of religion, slavery, beheadings for non-conformists, use of lethal force, gays being killed, suspected gays being killed, older single women being burnt alive for not be good slave material, letting slaves as young as 5 years old die of thirst and that is only the tip of evil things. What's more Begum appears to have no change in beliefs, except for free benefits.

A bit of me thinks Iraq seems to have the right idea about ISIS wives:


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... en-of-isis
I don't think that mimicking ISIS in the rule of law is the way to go about.
I'm not saying it is.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Petej »

Shame we didn't get her with a drone. The lack of regret was clear in her interview. She purely wants to return for medical treatment and has no interest in contributing anything to UK society.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Turbogoat »

This is a shit situation all round. Yeah, she went over to support one of the most evil movements ever, and deserves no sympathy whatsoever for this.
She's showed no remorse or regret for her actions other than that her side didn't do better.
Throw the damn book at her.

But then things get a bit more complex. She was still a minor when she was radicalized and left the country wasn't she?
I ended up treating a shitload of ISIS wives and kids in Iraq, and every single one was completely messed up in the head. OK, they'd been clearly coached to 'act insane' once captured to also make it harder to simply execute them, but even once you got past the facade of what they thought was being insane, they were all screwed up - PTSD was just the tip of that iceberg as well, there were long term mental issues going on behind the eyes of every adult/ young adult that had gone their voluntarily. You might ask who in their right mind would go be a sex slave of ISIS - mmmyeah, not many. The vulnerable types who were targets by ISIS for radicalization and relocation often seemed to have a few underlying issues, funny that.

The easiest thing for everyone would have been for all these types just to be martyred and left at that. Certain units from certain countries had comprehensive lists of their countrymen that were not to be given the option of surrendering or returning to their homelands. Bit harder when it comes to the women and kids though.

Iraq/Syria just wants to be rid of the foreigners, so they'll say whatever it takes to be rid of them, back to their country of origin.

Now you're left with the hard task of having to deal with each one of these people individually. They aren't prisoners of war, they committed crimes on foreign soil, the possibility of gathering evidence of said crimes is probably slim to none in Syria, they'll claim diminished responsibility, they'll claim they were coerced into it, they'll claim they were prisoners themselves, they'll claim they never did anything harmful etc... and you'll have a bitch of a time trying to prove otherwise. For joining a banned terror group they can probably be convicted easily enough, which could get them up to 10 years imprisonment I think? Not a lot if they can't prove any other crimes. Their lawyer will be playing up the diminished responsibility angle and the young ages of them as well, so they may not get anywhere near the maximum either, especially if she's about to become a mother.

It's a shitshow all round.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by New guy »

"I want to come back to the UK. What's that? Oh yeah it's been really fun living in the Caliphate, I once saw a pile of heads in a bin LOL!"

What a f**king psycho :lol:

Hopefully she dies in the desert.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Dobbin »

Let her come back and have the baby, then immediately remove it from her and put it up for adoption. Then while she's rotting in prison she can comfort herself with the thought that her child is being brought up as a good, normal citizen who completely rejects everything its mother belives in. What better punishment?
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by DragsterDriver »

Petej wrote:Shame we didn't get her with a drone. The lack of regret was clear in her interview. She purely wants to return for medical treatment and has no interest in contributing anything to UK society.
If they’d shot her it would have saved the taxpayer millions, which this will end up costing.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by New guy »

assfly wrote:She's a British citizen. She should go back to the UK and face trial.
Didn't all IS mongs have their citizenship revoked?

We don't want them back thanks. Let them rot.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Petej »

New guy wrote:
assfly wrote:She's a British citizen. She should go back to the UK and face trial.
Didn't all IS mongs have their citizenship revoked?

We don't want them back thanks. Let them rot.
Nah I think we could only revoke citizenship of people with dual citizenship. The Iraq courts seem to be going about it in an efficient way.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Brazil »

Turbogoat wrote:This is a shit situation all round. Yeah, she went over to support one of the most evil movements ever, and deserves no sympathy whatsoever for this.
She's showed no remorse or regret for her actions other than that her side didn't do better.
Throw the damn book at her.

But then things get a bit more complex. She was still a minor when she was radicalized and left the country wasn't she?
I ended up treating a shitload of ISIS wives and kids in Iraq, and every single one was completely messed up in the head. OK, they'd been clearly coached to 'act insane' once captured to also make it harder to simply execute them, but even once you got past the facade of what they thought was being insane, they were all screwed up - PTSD was just the tip of that iceberg as well, there were long term mental issues going on behind the eyes of every adult/ young adult that had gone their voluntarily. You might ask who in their right mind would go be a sex slave of ISIS - mmmyeah, not many. The vulnerable types who were targets by ISIS for radicalization and relocation often seemed to have a few underlying issues, funny that.

The easiest thing for everyone would have been for all these types just to be martyred and left at that. Certain units from certain countries had comprehensive lists of their countrymen that were not to be given the option of surrendering or returning to their homelands. Bit harder when it comes to the women and kids though.

Iraq/Syria just wants to be rid of the foreigners, so they'll say whatever it takes to be rid of them, back to their country of origin.

Now you're left with the hard task of having to deal with each one of these people individually. They aren't prisoners of war, they committed crimes on foreign soil, the possibility of gathering evidence of said crimes is probably slim to none in Syria, they'll claim diminished responsibility, they'll claim they were coerced into it, they'll claim they were prisoners themselves, they'll claim they never did anything harmful etc... and you'll have a bitch of a time trying to prove otherwise. For joining a banned terror group they can probably be convicted easily enough, which could get them up to 10 years imprisonment I think? Not a lot if they can't prove any other crimes. Their lawyer will be playing up the diminished responsibility angle and the young ages of them as well, so they may not get anywhere near the maximum either, especially if she's about to become a mother.

It's a shitshow all round.
Presumably there's also some Humint value in them with respect to the existing networks through which they were recruited and which, at least potentially, could still endure irrespective of the defeat on the ground. You'd hope that the CIA, MI6/5 and other approptiate intelligence services were taking an interest in returning fighters to find out who was talking to whom and where, though obviously the value will vary significantly from case to case.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Lemoentjie »

Female privilege
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Sinkers »

After ww2 didn’t the allies run a de-nazification programme where subject were evaluated and out the into categories something like:
- diehard Nazi. No chance of rehab. into jail you go.
- a bit of a Nazi. Good probability of rehab. Into a programme you go
- poor shmuck. Forced into it. Home you go.

Admittedly most of these arseholes will fall into the first category considering they made the choice themselves.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by sewa »

Anonymous. wrote:Having heard the Interview with the ISIS breading bitch it's clear she is still a believer and as she says only wants to come back to the UK because we will take care of her latest baby. The government has to tell her to keep going forth and multiplying elsewhere


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181
I love stuff that is breaded so its no surprise I have a soft spot for this lady
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Chilli »

Is she not worth a rule 1 Lads?
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Brazil »

Sinkers wrote:After ww2 didn’t the allies run a de-nazification programme where subject were evaluated and out the into categories something like:
- diehard Nazi. No chance of rehab. into jail you go.
- a bit of a Nazi. Good probability of rehab. Into a programme you go
- poor shmuck. Forced into it. Home you go.

Admittedly most of these arseholes will fall into the first category considering they made the choice themselves.
Bizzarely I was talking to a veteran of Telic about this exact same subject yesterday, in the context of the total disaster that was Debaathification after Iraq. In that instance, rather than maintianing reliable elements of the Iraq armyand the Baath party to keep order in the aftermath (like what they did with the Wehrmacht and, indeed, the German civil service in the late 40s), the yanks let everyone toddle off into irate poverty whilst armed to the teeth, whilst people who were ostebnsibly foreigners came in and took control in Baghdad, and were then surprised when it blew up afterwards.

However, it's not directly comparable with Isis because they serve no purpose in the aftermath of their insurgency - nobody in Iraq or Syria is ever going to accept Jihadi John as the town Mayor, and there's no need for him to be, the elements needed for stability and reconstruction will come from other pre-existing structures or forces. Essentially you've got several thousand displaced people who nobody really wants anything to do with and who, in many cases, are the responsibility of foreign governments who would rather not have to deal with them.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Womack »

Think the only pictures of her doing the rounds are as a 15 year old at the time she went over there. Which would be wrong even by the noble rule 1 traditions of the bored.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by slick »

Womack wrote:Think the only pictures of her doing the rounds are as a 15 year old at the time she went over there. Which would be wrong even by the noble rule 1 traditions of the bored.
Does this thread not come under Islamic Law?
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Toulon's Not Toulouse »

Find enough of them, bring them all home in a same neighbourhood, throw CCTV all over the place and you've got an awesome Desperate ISISwives tv show. :thumbup:
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Turbogoat »

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:Find enough of them, bring them all home in a same neighbourhood, throw CCTV all over the place and you've got an awesome Desperate ISISwives tv show. :thumbup:
TOWIE: The only way is extremism
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Petej »

Turbogoat wrote:
Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:Find enough of them, bring them all home in a same neighbourhood, throw CCTV all over the place and you've got an awesome Desperate ISISwives tv show. :thumbup:
TOWIE: The only way is extremism
The great Isis bomb off.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by eldanielfire »

Turbogoat wrote:This is a shit situation all round. Yeah, she went over to support one of the most evil movements ever, and deserves no sympathy whatsoever for this.
She's showed no remorse or regret for her actions other than that her side didn't do better.
Throw the damn book at her.

But then things get a bit more complex. She was still a minor when she was radicalized and left the country wasn't she?
I ended up treating a shitload of ISIS wives and kids in Iraq, and every single one was completely messed up in the head. OK, they'd been clearly coached to 'act insane' once captured to also make it harder to simply execute them, but even once you got past the facade of what they thought was being insane, they were all screwed up - PTSD was just the tip of that iceberg as well, there were long term mental issues going on behind the eyes of every adult/ young adult that had gone their voluntarily. You might ask who in their right mind would go be a sex slave of ISIS - mmmyeah, not many. The vulnerable types who were targets by ISIS for radicalization and relocation often seemed to have a few underlying issues, funny that.

The easiest thing for everyone would have been for all these types just to be martyred and left at that. Certain units from certain countries had comprehensive lists of their countrymen that were not to be given the option of surrendering or returning to their homelands. Bit harder when it comes to the women and kids though.

Iraq/Syria just wants to be rid of the foreigners, so they'll say whatever it takes to be rid of them, back to their country of origin.

Now you're left with the hard task of having to deal with each one of these people individually. They aren't prisoners of war, they committed crimes on foreign soil, the possibility of gathering evidence of said crimes is probably slim to none in Syria, they'll claim diminished responsibility, they'll claim they were coerced into it, they'll claim they were prisoners themselves, they'll claim they never did anything harmful etc... and you'll have a bitch of a time trying to prove otherwise. For joining a banned terror group they can probably be convicted easily enough, which could get them up to 10 years imprisonment I think? Not a lot if they can't prove any other crimes. Their lawyer will be playing up the diminished responsibility angle and the young ages of them as well, so they may not get anywhere near the maximum either, especially if she's about to become a mother.

It's a shitshow all round.
What was your job in the ME?

I'd genuinely consider if there is enough for a decent trial in Syria. If she came back to the UK I'd certainly have her sent to prison after trial and ensure her child is separated form her for it's own good. As for her being a minor, there are situations where in the UK minors can be put on trial as adults. The Jamie Bulger killers where one example I believe. I'm more certain a 15 year old, minor or not, knows exactly what they are doing to run off to the ME and join an evil mass murdering group.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by eldanielfire »

Sinkers wrote:After ww2 didn’t the allies run a de-nazification programme where subject were evaluated and out the into categories something like:
- diehard Nazi. No chance of rehab. into jail you go.
- a bit of a Nazi. Good probability of rehab. Into a programme you go
- poor shmuck. Forced into it. Home you go.

Admittedly most of these arseholes will fall into the first category considering they made the choice themselves.
I think this approach was easier after WWII because the nazi ideology and structure was destroyed and ended. Islamic militants however still have masses of extreme views of Islam that can influence them.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Plato'sCave »

If her only passport is a UK passport then she’s our problem.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by sewa »

eldanielfire wrote:
What was your job in the ME?

I'd genuinely consider if there is enough for a decent trial in Syria. If she came back to the UK I'd certainly have her sent to prison after trial and ensure her child is separated form her for it's own good. As for her being a minor, there are situations where in the UK minors can be put on trial as adults. The Jamie Bulger killers where one example I believe. I'm more certain a 15 year old, minor or not, knows exactly what they are doing to run off to the ME and join an evil mass murdering group.
What would you charge her with, shagging a bad man is not an offence under Uk law.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Margin_Walker »

Interesting thread on the potential prosecution or otherwise of IS combatants and non-combatants here

https://twitter.com/ShirazMaher/status/ ... 3866578946
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by crash 669 »

sewa wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
What was your job in the ME?

I'd genuinely consider if there is enough for a decent trial in Syria. If she came back to the UK I'd certainly have her sent to prison after trial and ensure her child is separated form her for it's own good. As for her being a minor, there are situations where in the UK minors can be put on trial as adults. The Jamie Bulger killers where one example I believe. I'm more certain a 15 year old, minor or not, knows exactly what they are doing to run off to the ME and join an evil mass murdering group.
What would you charge her with, shagging a bad man is not an offence under Uk law.
Joining a terrorist group is.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by I like haggis »

Imagine the fury in the UK if a terrorist here had citizenship elsewhere but they refuse to take them back.

She's our trash and we need to deal with her.

Better she dies though, what a weirdo.

Great scoop for the times tbf .
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by sewa »

crash 669 wrote:
sewa wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
What was your job in the ME?

I'd genuinely consider if there is enough for a decent trial in Syria. If she came back to the UK I'd certainly have her sent to prison after trial and ensure her child is separated form her for it's own good. As for her being a minor, there are situations where in the UK minors can be put on trial as adults. The Jamie Bulger killers where one example I believe. I'm more certain a 15 year old, minor or not, knows exactly what they are doing to run off to the ME and join an evil mass murdering group.
What would you charge her with, shagging a bad man is not an offence under Uk law.
Joining a terrorist group is.
Ok, that's typically a reasonably short term though and in many cases very hard to prove. What happens then
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Post by Womack »

There's a difference between 'refusing to take her back' (which the UK hasn't done as far as I'm aware) and not doing much to help her return home from a Syrian refugee camp. TBH I don't think there's much parallel between her situation and any hypothetical reverse situation, Syria being quite different to the UK in terms of security etc.
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by A5D5E5 »

sewa wrote:
crash 669 wrote:
sewa wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
What was your job in the ME?

I'd genuinely consider if there is enough for a decent trial in Syria. If she came back to the UK I'd certainly have her sent to prison after trial and ensure her child is separated form her for it's own good. As for her being a minor, there are situations where in the UK minors can be put on trial as adults. The Jamie Bulger killers where one example I believe. I'm more certain a 15 year old, minor or not, knows exactly what they are doing to run off to the ME and join an evil mass murdering group.
What would you charge her with, shagging a bad man is not an offence under Uk law.
Joining a terrorist group is.
Ok, that's typically a reasonably short term though and in many cases very hard to prove. What happens then
Probably not so hard to prove when she is giving interviews expressing her lack of regret for doing so.
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sewa
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Post by sewa »

A5D5E5 wrote:
sewa wrote:
Ok, that's typically a reasonably short term though and in many cases very hard to prove. What happens then
Probably not so hard to prove when she is giving interviews expressing her lack of regret for doing so.
Ok, so she serves her two to five, then what?
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Post by Womack »

sewa wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
sewa wrote:
Ok, that's typically a reasonably short term though and in many cases very hard to prove. What happens then
Probably not so hard to prove when she is giving interviews expressing her lack of regret for doing so.
Ok, so she serves her two to five, then what?
She is released. You're the one who didn't think she could go to prison so I'm not sure why or what you're arguing at this point.
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sewa
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by sewa »

Womack wrote:
sewa wrote:
Ok, so she serves her two to five, then what?
She is released. You're the one who didn't think she could go to prison so I'm not sure why or what you're arguing at this point.
I am making the point that the only thing you can get her on is relatively minor charges with resulting minor sentences. Then she is released and gets to spread more of this hatred back in the UK. That's clearly unacceptable so the Uk is no position to take her back
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Re: Shamina Begum can FCUK right off.

Post by Turbogoat »

eldanielfire wrote:
What was your job in the ME?
I wore a few different hats over there, primarily tactical medic and EOD type stuff, coalescing into CBRNE response. I'm also proficient in Excel and Word.
I'd genuinely consider if there is enough for a decent trial in Syria. If she came back to the UK I'd certainly have her sent to prison after trial and ensure her child is separated form her for it's own good. As for her being a minor, there are situations where in the UK minors can be put on trial as adults. The Jamie Bulger killers where one example I believe. I'm more certain a 15 year old, minor or not, knows exactly what they are doing to run off to the ME and join an evil mass murdering group.
Syria, if they're anything like Iraq will want nothing to do with these foreigners and do anything they can to just palm them off onto whoever is forced to claim them. With all their internal issues, ISIS are almost a sideshow for them now.
They're certainly old enough to be charged for joining a terror group, but you know their lawyer will be playing up their tender age and vulnerability at every opportunity if it comes to a trial. It'll be their easiest defence to portray how the poor wee mites were led astray and never meant to hurt anyone at all, and were only there to play housewife.
They may have been some of the really vicious ISIS women who kept all the other women in line with some brutal measures, or tortured prisoners etc... but they'll have to be able to prove that. ISIS actually kept really meticulous records, if they didn't destroy them all they may just be able to make a case out if it if they can track it down.
Then we'll just have to hope they don't get some bleeding heart judge who can't believe that such a tiny girl once knife-fucked a woman to death because she didn't please her husband, and lets her off with a warning.
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