Planet Rugby Forum

Study: Aegean farmers replaced hunters of ancient Britain

by Frank Jordans

Scientists say a wave of migrants from a region that is now Greece and Turkey arrived in Britain some 6,000 years ago and virtually replaced the existing hunter-gatherer population, according to a study published Monday April 15, 2019, in the journal Nature. According to Nature, genetic samples of ancient remains show there was little interbreeding between the newcomers and the darker-skinned foragers that had inhabited the British Isles for millennia.

Scientists examining samples of ancient remains dating as far back as 8500 BC found the dark-skinned foragers who had inhabited the British Isles since the last Ice Age left comparatively little trace in the genetic record after the transition to farming, suggesting there wasn't much interbreeding with the newcomers who arrived around 4000 BC.

By contrast, the same Aegean migrants mixed extensively with local populations when they introduced farming to continental Europe about 1,000 years earlier, according to previous DNA studies.

"It is difficult to say why this is, but it may be that those last British hunter-gatherers were relatively few in number," said Mark G. Thomas, a professor of evolutionary genetics at University College London who co-wrote the study. "Even if these two populations had mixed completely, the ability of adept continental farmers and their descendants to maintain larger population sizes would produce a significant diminishing of hunter-gatherer ancestry over time."

The researchers from Britain and the United States found that the remains of Britain's early farmers were genetically similar to those discovered in what is now Spain and Portugal, indicating this population traveled east to west through the Mediterranean, and then up to Britain.

Strikingly, the newcomers appear to have arrived first on the western coast before spreading to other parts of Britain, suggesting they didn't cross the English Channel using the shortest possible course but instead braved the wilder Atlantic route.

"This route is a continuation of the Mediterranean coastal dispersal route but of course in much more complicated maritime circumstances," said Carles Lalueza-Fox of the Institute of Evolutionary Biology in Barcelona, Spain.

Lalueza-Fox, who wasn't involved with the study, said the findings match what is known about the spread of megalithic structures along Europe's Atlantic coast. Perhaps the best-known of these structures is Stonehenge in Britain.

"This work highlights the complex population turnovers affecting a rather marginal area of Northwestern Europe and points out the need to investigate all regions with ancient data to understand the shaping of modern human genetic diversity," said Laluelza-Fox.

In their paper, Thomas and his colleagues also note the "considerable variation in pigmentation levels in Europe" during the Stone Age as shown from the genetic samples they examined.

Whereas Britain's outgoing hunter-gatherers—including the oldest known Briton, "Cheddar Man"—likely had blue or green eyes and dark or even black skin, the farming populations migrating across Europe are believed to have had brown eyes and dark to intermediate skin.

Gwenno wrote:"Few in number" - what other ways are there of being few but "in number"?
Similar annoying tautologies in scientific writing - "red in colour", "square in shape".

ManInTheBar wrote:

Gwenno wrote:"Few in number" - what other ways are there of being few but "in number"?
Similar annoying tautologies in scientific writing - "red in colour", "square in shape".

I describe myself as:
Few in braincells
Red in political terms
Square in attitude towards so-called popular music

Also will accept description of sm@rt@rse

sturginho wrote:

ManInTheBar wrote:

Gwenno wrote:"Few in number" - what other ways are there of being few but "in number"?
Similar annoying tautologies in scientific writing - "red in colour", "square in shape".

I describe myself as:
Few in braincells
Red in political terms
Square in attitude towards so-called popular music

Also will accept description of sm@rt@rse

Smart in arse?

slick wrote:I wonder if anyone on the bored speaks Greek.

globus wrote:

slick wrote:I wonder if anyone on the bored speaks Greek.

<cough>

globus wrote:

slick wrote:I wonder if anyone on the bored speaks Greek.

<cough>

slick wrote:I wonder if anyone on the bored speaks Greek.

A5D5E5 wrote:

globus wrote:

slick wrote:I wonder if anyone on the bored speaks Greek.

<cough>

παρκλιφε

PCPhil wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:

globus wrote:

slick wrote:I wonder if anyone on the bored speaks Greek.

<cough>

παρκλιφε

αγνοούν τον αυτός είναι ένας bellend

PCPhil wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:

globus wrote:

slick wrote:I wonder if anyone on the bored speaks Greek.

<cough>

παρκλιφε

αγνοούν τον αυτός είναι ένας bellend

globus wrote:

PCPhil wrote:

A5D5E5 wrote:

globus wrote:

slick wrote:I wonder if anyone on the bored speaks Greek.

<cough>

παρκλιφε

αγνοούν τον αυτός είναι ένας bellend

Thanks so much. I did classical Greek at school but the real learning came from working in a taverna in Naxos.

Taranaki Snapper wrote: suggesting there wasn't much interbreeding with the newcomers who arrived around 4000 BC.

Sandstorm wrote:

Taranaki Snapper wrote: suggesting there wasn't much interbreeding with the newcomers who arrived around 4000 BC.

Voting Leave isn't new then.

slick wrote:I wonder if anyone on the bored speaks Greek.

globus wrote:Just use Google Translate.

SaintK wrote:

globus wrote:Just use Google Translate.

I did in the end
Thought you may have done it for us though!

MrJonno wrote:
My wife is fluent in Greek.

globus wrote: I'm not good with the written stuff in Greek. Not so bad on the Latin side but it's difficult to find an Italian who speaks it.

tafano wrote:

globus wrote: I'm not good with the written stuff in Greek. Not so bad on the Latin side but it's difficult to find an Italian who speaks it.

I think there's a 0,0001% of italians that can speak Latin.
Italian derives directly from the popular latin, spoken by the illitterate poors, while the Latin that we study is the so called classical, spoken
by a bunch of rich fellas for a very short time 2 milleniums ago.
Here we call "Latinismi" all the ancient Latin words, reintroduced in italian from the XIII century on.

Plus, here in Italy we learn only the written form, it is discouraged directly by tutors to talk in Latin.

I studied it fo 5 years, I can transalte things written in monuments, but that's all.

mr bungle wrote:

MrJonno wrote:
My wife is fluent in Greek.

έτσι έχω ακούσει

Taranaki Snapper wrote:

Study: Aegean farmers replaced hunters of ancient Britain

by Frank Jordans

Scientists say a wave of migrants from a region that is now Greece and Turkey arrived in Britain some 6,000 years ago and virtually replaced the existing hunter-gatherer population, according to a study published Monday April 15, 2019, in the journal Nature. According to Nature, genetic samples of ancient remains show there was little interbreeding between the newcomers and the darker-skinned foragers that had inhabited the British Isles for millennia.

Scientists examining samples of ancient remains dating as far back as 8500 BC found the dark-skinned foragers who had inhabited the British Isles since the last Ice Age left comparatively little trace in the genetic record after the transition to farming, suggesting there wasn't much interbreeding with the newcomers who arrived around 4000 BC.

By contrast, the same Aegean migrants mixed extensively with local populations when they introduced farming to continental Europe about 1,000 years earlier, according to previous DNA studies.

"It is difficult to say why this is, but it may be that those last British hunter-gatherers were relatively few in number," said Mark G. Thomas, a professor of evolutionary genetics at University College London who co-wrote the study. "Even if these two populations had mixed completely, the ability of adept continental farmers and their descendants to maintain larger population sizes would produce a significant diminishing of hunter-gatherer ancestry over time."

The researchers from Britain and the United States found that the remains of Britain's early farmers were genetically similar to those discovered in what is now Spain and Portugal, indicating this population traveled east to west through the Mediterranean, and then up to Britain.

Strikingly, the newcomers appear to have arrived first on the western coast before spreading to other parts of Britain, suggesting they didn't cross the English Channel using the shortest possible course but instead braved the wilder Atlantic route.

"This route is a continuation of the Mediterranean coastal dispersal route but of course in much more complicated maritime circumstances," said Carles Lalueza-Fox of the Institute of Evolutionary Biology in Barcelona, Spain.

Lalueza-Fox, who wasn't involved with the study, said the findings match what is known about the spread of megalithic structures along Europe's Atlantic coast. Perhaps the best-known of these structures is Stonehenge in Britain.

"This work highlights the complex population turnovers affecting a rather marginal area of Northwestern Europe and points out the need to investigate all regions with ancient data to understand the shaping of modern human genetic diversity," said Laluelza-Fox.

In their paper, Thomas and his colleagues also note the "considerable variation in pigmentation levels in Europe" during the Stone Age as shown from the genetic samples they examined.

Whereas Britain's outgoing hunter-gatherers—including the oldest known Briton, "Cheddar Man"—likely had blue or green eyes and dark or even black skin, the farming populations migrating across Europe are believed to have had brown eyes and dark to intermediate skin.

https://phys.org/news/2019-04-aegean-fa ... itain.html

globus wrote: Nice to make contact with you Tafano. Very interesting and informative. I love Latin. I used to translate popular songs whilst being bored.

Ubi ambulatis, per tempestate, obtine caput erectum et non timere tenebrarum.

Hope you can translate that into English!

My wife's son's wife is a fluent Italian speaker. The grand children are being brought up tri-lingual. She's also fluent in French and naturally English.

Had a funny moment when M (the eldest) spoke in all three in a sentence at the dinner table! Not quite sure what she meant.

I speak decent German and Spanish. Struggled with Portuguese. Had a go at Mandarin but I cannot get into sing song languages like Thai.

But it's nice to know a fellow Latin poster.

globus wrote:I'm not good with the written stuff in Greek. Not so bad on the Latin side but it's difficult to find an Italian who speaks it.

tafano wrote:

globus wrote: I'm not good with the written stuff in Greek. Not so bad on the Latin side but it's difficult to find an Italian who speaks it.

I think there's a 0,0001% of italians that can speak Latin.
Italian derives directly from the popular latin, spoken by the illitterate poors, while the Latin that we study is the so called classical, spoken by a bunch of rich fellas for a very short time 2 milleniums ago.
Here we call "Latinismi" all the ancient Latin words, reintroduced in italian from the XIII century on.

Plus, here in Italy we learn only the written form, it is discouraged directly by tutors to talk in Latin.

I studied it fo 5 years, I can transalte things written in monuments, but that's all.

fonzeee wrote:

tafano wrote:

globus wrote: I'm not good with the written stuff in Greek. Not so bad on the Latin side but it's difficult to find an Italian who speaks it.

I think there's a 0,0001% of italians that can speak Latin.
Italian derives directly from the popular latin, spoken by the illitterate poors, while the Latin that we study is the so called classical, spoken by a bunch of rich fellas for a very short time 2 milleniums ago.
Here we call "Latinismi" all the ancient Latin words, reintroduced in italian from the XIII century on.

Plus, here in Italy we learn only the written form, it is discouraged directly by tutors to talk in Latin.

I studied it fo 5 years, I can transalte things written in monuments, but that's all.

I went to a Catholic high school that offered Latin, had a few friends who took it (for God knows what reason).

One of them said that you can't really have a "conversation" in Latin based on what's survived...or at least if you do, it would have sounded ridiculous to speakers at that time.

I'm incredibly jealous of all you bi/tri/whatever-lingual types. I scored in 99th percentile on the English section of the ACT but couldn't ever become even conversationally fluent in my parents' mother tongue (Spanish). Shame of the family.

ManInTheBar wrote:

slick wrote:I wonder if anyone on the bored speaks Greek.

It's all Greek to me

fonzeee wrote:

tafano wrote:

globus wrote: I'm not good with the written stuff in Greek. Not so bad on the Latin side but it's difficult to find an Italian who speaks it.

I think there's a 0,0001% of italians that can speak Latin.
Italian derives directly from the popular latin, spoken by the illitterate poors, while the Latin that we study is the so called classical, spoken by a bunch of rich fellas for a very short time 2 milleniums ago.
Here we call "Latinismi" all the ancient Latin words, reintroduced in italian from the XIII century on.

Plus, here in Italy we learn only the written form, it is discouraged directly by tutors to talk in Latin.

I studied it fo 5 years, I can transalte things written in monuments, but that's all.

I went to a Catholic high school that offered Latin, had a few friends who took it (for God knows what reason).

One of them said that you can't really have a "conversation" in Latin based on what's survived...or at least if you do, it would have sounded ridiculous to speakers at that time.

I'm incredibly jealous of all you bi/tri/whatever-lingual types. I scored in 99th percentile on the English section of the ACT but couldn't ever become even conversationally fluent in my parents' mother tongue (Spanish). Shame of the family.

goeagles wrote:
Spending 6 months in a Spanish speaking country or place would do more for your Spanish than a lifetime of Spanish classes. My girlfriend took French in high school and basically remembers nothing and learned very little but she spent 2 years living in Armenia and became close to fluent in Armenian, a language that is not related to any she's ever been familiar with and has an entirely unfamiliar alphabet.

fonzeee wrote:

tafano wrote:

globus wrote: I'm not good with the written stuff in Greek. Not so bad on the Latin side but it's difficult to find an Italian who speaks it.

I think there's a 0,0001% of italians that can speak Latin.
Italian derives directly from the popular latin, spoken by the illitterate poors, while the Latin that we study is the so called classical, spoken by a bunch of rich fellas for a very short time 2 milleniums ago.
Here we call "Latinismi" all the ancient Latin words, reintroduced in italian from the XIII century on.

Plus, here in Italy we learn only the written form, it is discouraged directly by tutors to talk in Latin.

I studied it fo 5 years, I can transalte things written in monuments, but that's all.

I went to a Catholic high school that offered Latin, had a few friends who took it (for God knows what reason).

One of them said that you can't really have a "conversation" in Latin based on what's survived...or at least if you do, it would have sounded ridiculous to speakers at that time.

I'm incredibly jealous of all you bi/tri/whatever-lingual types. I scored in 99th percentile on the English section of the ACT but couldn't ever become even conversationally fluent in my parents' mother tongue (Spanish). Shame of the family.

MrJonno wrote:
My wife is fluent in Greekstyle.