Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 1:52 pm
Prepare a shipment for NZ i think.
https://forum.planetrugby.com/
Good to see the Kiwis are taking it wellterangi48 wrote:Is it right they got a weeks holiday........should have been a two year stand down, years revision course, cleaning out of betting account, compulsory resit of referees exams.....before being let anywhere near a rugby paddock again. Neutral refs please as used to be.....
Ones which have outright stated their decision before reviewing the footage?sorCrer wrote:Yeah mate. I've seen games influenced all over the world by TMO's including in New Zealand.Toro wrote:He showed a clear lack of understanding of something 'clarified in a video' by WR, with big lines on the field.Crazy Ed wrote:Ok be pedantic. He made an incorrect call that should have been better.
Other Refs have made equally bad calls in the past which have also influenced potential game outcomes.
This wasn't a 50/50 call, he refused to use the clarifying points used by all referees in these circumstances, which is a reference to the hands and the ball leaving them.
The intervened in a crucial moment in the game and changed the outcome with a bad decision, that is a huge black mark for a ref.
As it's been mentioned, none of these points can be watered down by having to call it in real time, as TMO you have to be more accurate.
Games being influenced in the republic by dodgy TV crews and TMOs ignoring protocols is getting a bit tedious.
I’d like to think that Jonker had had a couple of views in between the pass and the try being scored before he intervened - not that that actually help him. If he did have the opportunity to view the pass at least once or twice before he made the call, he will be kicking himself for getting it so badly wrongYourmother wrote:Ones which have outright stated their decision before reviewing the footage?sorCrer wrote:Yeah mate. I've seen games influenced all over the world by TMO's including in New Zealand.Toro wrote:He showed a clear lack of understanding of something 'clarified in a video' by WR, with big lines on the field.Crazy Ed wrote:Ok be pedantic. He made an incorrect call that should have been better.
Other Refs have made equally bad calls in the past which have also influenced potential game outcomes.
This wasn't a 50/50 call, he refused to use the clarifying points used by all referees in these circumstances, which is a reference to the hands and the ball leaving them.
The intervened in a crucial moment in the game and changed the outcome with a bad decision, that is a huge black mark for a ref.
As it's been mentioned, none of these points can be watered down by having to call it in real time, as TMO you have to be more accurate.
Games being influenced in the republic by dodgy TV crews and TMOs ignoring protocols is getting a bit tedious.
“I’m going to show you a forward pass” were his actual comments before the replay review.
You think he’s kicking himself. I think he will be saying it’s forward still. And saying forward is forward.Hong Kong wrote:I’d like to think that Jonker had had a couple of views in between the pass and the try being scored before he intervened - not that that actually help him. If he did have the opportunity to view the pass at least once or twice before he made the call, he will be kicking himself for getting it so badly wrongYourmother wrote:Ones which have outright stated their decision before reviewing the footage?sorCrer wrote:Yeah mate. I've seen games influenced all over the world by TMO's including in New Zealand.Toro wrote:He showed a clear lack of understanding of something 'clarified in a video' by WR, with big lines on the field.Crazy Ed wrote:Ok be pedantic. He made an incorrect call that should have been better.
Other Refs have made equally bad calls in the past which have also influenced potential game outcomes.
This wasn't a 50/50 call, he refused to use the clarifying points used by all referees in these circumstances, which is a reference to the hands and the ball leaving them.
The intervened in a crucial moment in the game and changed the outcome with a bad decision, that is a huge black mark for a ref.
As it's been mentioned, none of these points can be watered down by having to call it in real time, as TMO you have to be more accurate.
Games being influenced in the republic by dodgy TV crews and TMOs ignoring protocols is getting a bit tedious.
“I’m going to show you a forward pass” were his actual comments before the replay review.
And if he does still think that, then he’ll soon be out of a job. It’s ridiculous to suggest he had a preconceived idea - he will have seen the pass, incorrectly thought it was forward and needed a review and having painted himself into a corner, stuck to his guns. Should have just said, ‘oops. Stuffed up, stick with your on field decision.’ The manner in which he spoke to the ref was very dominant and the ref will be infuriated that he did not have the courage to overrule Jonker.Yourmother wrote:You think he’s kicking himself. I think he will be saying it’s forward still. And saying forward is forward.Hong Kong wrote:
I’d like to think that Jonker had had a couple of views in between the pass and the try being scored before he intervened - not that that actually help him. If he did have the opportunity to view the pass at least once or twice before he made the call, he will be kicking himself for getting it so badly wrong
He had pre decided what the ref should rule, before he or more importantly the guy in charge was given the opportunity to properly forensically analyse.
As we found out in 2007 (and as we learned and used) the refs are told to put away their whistles in the knockout rounds of a world cup.Lemoentjie wrote:Didn't Joubert single handed drag NZ to victory over France in 2011 final...
The likes of Jonker and Seconds need to learn from subtle masters like Joubert, who managed to gift the All Blacks victory by giving France kickable penalties to win the game and failing to card multiple acts of French foul play. Now that's how you Gold Watch.Lemoentjie wrote:Didn't Joubert single handed drag NZ to victory over France in 2011 final...
Meh, NZ poor standard of refs over the last decade has been shielded by you lot getting into the last two RWC finals. Cock up in Sept and all will be exposed.naki wrote:The likes of Jonker and Seconds need to learn from subtle masters like Joubert, who managed to gift the All Blacks victory by giving France kickable penalties to win the game and failing to card multiple acts of French foul play. Now that's how you Gold Watch.Lemoentjie wrote:Didn't Joubert single handed drag NZ to victory over France in 2011 final...
That's heresay really, you have no idea what his thought process was but seem to defend him and give him the benefit of the doubt as per. He completely ignored the usual protocol when talking of forward passes and went completely against a kiddies videos explaining a forward pass. He's in international TMO, gimme a f'n break.Hong Kong wrote:And if he does still think that, then he’ll soon be out of a job. It’s ridiculous to suggest he had a preconceived idea - he will have seen the pass, incorrectly thought it was forward and needed a review and having painted himself into a corner, stuck to his guns. Should have just said, ‘oops. Stuffed up, stick with your on field decision.’ The manner in which he spoke to the ref was very dominant and the ref will be infuriated that he did not have the courage to overrule Jonker.Yourmother wrote:You think he’s kicking himself. I think he will be saying it’s forward still. And saying forward is forward.Hong Kong wrote:
I’d like to think that Jonker had had a couple of views in between the pass and the try being scored before he intervened - not that that actually help him. If he did have the opportunity to view the pass at least once or twice before he made the call, he will be kicking himself for getting it so badly wrong
He had pre decided what the ref should rule, before he or more importantly the guy in charge was given the opportunity to properly forensically analyse.
Speculation rather than hearsay, I’ll allow it.Toro wrote:That's heresay really, you have no idea what his thought process was but seem to defend him and give him the benefit of the doubt as per. He completely ignored the usual protocol when talking of forward passes and went completely against a kiddies videos explaining a forward pass. He's in international TMO, gimme a f'n break.Hong Kong wrote:And if he does still think that, then he’ll soon be out of a job. It’s ridiculous to suggest he had a preconceived idea - he will have seen the pass, incorrectly thought it was forward and needed a review and having painted himself into a corner, stuck to his guns. Should have just said, ‘oops. Stuffed up, stick with your on field decision.’ The manner in which he spoke to the ref was very dominant and the ref will be infuriated that he did not have the courage to overrule Jonker.Yourmother wrote:You think he’s kicking himself. I think he will be saying it’s forward still. And saying forward is forward.Hong Kong wrote:
I’d like to think that Jonker had had a couple of views in between the pass and the try being scored before he intervened - not that that actually help him. If he did have the opportunity to view the pass at least once or twice before he made the call, he will be kicking himself for getting it so badly wrong
He had pre decided what the ref should rule, before he or more importantly the guy in charge was given the opportunity to properly forensically analyse.
No that was mccawLemoentjie wrote:Didn't Joubert single handed drag NZ to victory over France in 2011 final...
Phew!Mr Mike wrote:Speculation rather than hearsay, I’ll allow it.Toro wrote:That's heresay really, you have no idea what his thought process was but seem to defend him and give him the benefit of the doubt as per. He completely ignored the usual protocol when talking of forward passes and went completely against a kiddies videos explaining a forward pass. He's in international TMO, gimme a f'n break.Hong Kong wrote:And if he does still think that, then he’ll soon be out of a job. It’s ridiculous to suggest he had a preconceived idea - he will have seen the pass, incorrectly thought it was forward and needed a review and having painted himself into a corner, stuck to his guns. Should have just said, ‘oops. Stuffed up, stick with your on field decision.’ The manner in which he spoke to the ref was very dominant and the ref will be infuriated that he did not have the courage to overrule Jonker.Yourmother wrote:You think he’s kicking himself. I think he will be saying it’s forward still. And saying forward is forward.Hong Kong wrote:
I’d like to think that Jonker had had a couple of views in between the pass and the try being scored before he intervened - not that that actually help him. If he did have the opportunity to view the pass at least once or twice before he made the call, he will be kicking himself for getting it so badly wrong
He had pre decided what the ref should rule, before he or more importantly the guy in charge was given the opportunity to properly forensically analyse.
The claims about 2011 have always been a bit lazy.naki wrote:The likes of Jonker and Seconds need to learn from subtle masters like Joubert, who managed to gift the All Blacks victory by giving France kickable penalties to win the game and failing to card multiple acts of French foul play. Now that's how you Gold Watch.Lemoentjie wrote:Didn't Joubert single handed drag NZ to victory over France in 2011 final...
Or that the French score was a result of a Frenchy illegally coming around a ruck offside and hoofing it out with his boot.Fat Old Git wrote:The claims about 2011 have always been a bit lazy.naki wrote:The likes of Jonker and Seconds need to learn from subtle masters like Joubert, who managed to gift the All Blacks victory by giving France kickable penalties to win the game and failing to card multiple acts of French foul play. Now that's how you Gold Watch.Lemoentjie wrote:Didn't Joubert single handed drag NZ to victory over France in 2011 final...
"The ref must have helped the All Blacks because we know in our hearts that they're afraid to ref the All Cheats and McCheat properly."
Forget that the penalty count was fairly even for most of the game. Forget the foul play against the All Blacks that didn't get called. Or that we can't name any controversial calls that favored the them. We'll just repeat the claim over and over.
“It’s ridiculous to suggest he had a preconceived idea”Toro wrote:That's heresay really, you have no idea what his thought process was but seem to defend him and give him the benefit of the doubt as per. He completely ignored the usual protocol when talking of forward passes and went completely against a kiddies videos explaining a forward pass. He's in international TMO, gimme a f'n break.Hong Kong wrote:And if he does still think that, then he’ll soon be out of a job. It’s ridiculous to suggest he had a preconceived idea - he will have seen the pass, incorrectly thought it was forward and needed a review and having painted himself into a corner, stuck to his guns. Should have just said, ‘oops. Stuffed up, stick with your on field decision.’ The manner in which he spoke to the ref was very dominant and the ref will be infuriated that he did not have the courage to overrule Jonker.Yourmother wrote:You think he’s kicking himself. I think he will be saying it’s forward still. And saying forward is forward.Hong Kong wrote:
I’d like to think that Jonker had had a couple of views in between the pass and the try being scored before he intervened - not that that actually help him. If he did have the opportunity to view the pass at least once or twice before he made the call, he will be kicking himself for getting it so badly wrong
He had pre decided what the ref should rule, before he or more importantly the guy in charge was given the opportunity to properly forensically analyse.
And all of which are far more likely than he had a preconceived idea that he was going to call a forward pass.Yourmother wrote:“It’s ridiculous to suggest he had a preconceived idea”Toro wrote:That's heresay really, you have no idea what his thought process was but seem to defend him and give him the benefit of the doubt as per. He completely ignored the usual protocol when talking of forward passes and went completely against a kiddies videos explaining a forward pass. He's in international TMO, gimme a f'n break.Hong Kong wrote:And if he does still think that, then he’ll soon be out of a job. It’s ridiculous to suggest he had a preconceived idea - he will have seen the pass, incorrectly thought it was forward and needed a review and having painted himself into a corner, stuck to his guns. Should have just said, ‘oops. Stuffed up, stick with your on field decision.’ The manner in which he spoke to the ref was very dominant and the ref will be infuriated that he did not have the courage to overrule Jonker.Yourmother wrote:You think he’s kicking himself. I think he will be saying it’s forward still. And saying forward is forward.Hong Kong wrote:
I’d like to think that Jonker had had a couple of views in between the pass and the try being scored before he intervened - not that that actually help him. If he did have the opportunity to view the pass at least once or twice before he made the call, he will be kicking himself for getting it so badly wrong
He had pre decided what the ref should rule, before he or more importantly the guy in charge was given the opportunity to properly forensically analyse.
“he will have seen the pass, incorrectly thought it was forward and needed a review”
“having painted himself into a corner, stuck to his guns.”
All in the same sentence HK.
and no. He made a bad call during a game and will, hopefully, be a better TMO as a result. After all, you don’t drop a player for a missed tackle or PK given away and call him a shit player forevermore, do you?jdogscoop wrote:I'm sure we can at least agree on the fact Jonker is a shit TMO and everyone, of all stripes, is going to question every one of his decisions from this point on.
Hell, yes. One missed touch kick and it took winning a WC to make amends.Hong Kong wrote:and no. He made a bad call during a game and will, hopefully, be a better TMO as a result. After all, you don’t drop a player for a missed tackle or PK given away and call him a shit player forevermore, do you?jdogscoop wrote:I'm sure we can at least agree on the fact Jonker is a shit TMO and everyone, of all stripes, is going to question every one of his decisions from this point on.
He preconceived it was a forward pass in your own words. And you’re watering it down just saying he thought it needed a review, despite him saying “I’m going to show you a forward pass”. And you also contradict this balanced review call by saying he stuck to his guns having painted himself in to a corner, which rather suggests there was a “tiny” bit of predisposition initially.Hong Kong wrote:And all of which are far more likely than he had a preconceived idea that he was going to call a forward pass.Yourmother wrote:“It’s ridiculous to suggest he had a preconceived idea”Toro wrote:That's heresay really, you have no idea what his thought process was but seem to defend him and give him the benefit of the doubt as per. He completely ignored the usual protocol when talking of forward passes and went completely against a kiddies videos explaining a forward pass. He's in international TMO, gimme a f'n break.Hong Kong wrote:And if he does still think that, then he’ll soon be out of a job. It’s ridiculous to suggest he had a preconceived idea - he will have seen the pass, incorrectly thought it was forward and needed a review and having painted himself into a corner, stuck to his guns. Should have just said, ‘oops. Stuffed up, stick with your on field decision.’ The manner in which he spoke to the ref was very dominant and the ref will be infuriated that he did not have the courage to overrule Jonker.Yourmother wrote:
You think he’s kicking himself. I think he will be saying it’s forward still. And saying forward is forward.
He had pre decided what the ref should rule, before he or more importantly the guy in charge was given the opportunity to properly forensically analyse.
“he will have seen the pass, incorrectly thought it was forward and needed a review”
“having painted himself into a corner, stuck to his guns.”
All in the same sentence HK.
two at any one time.Yourmother wrote:He preconceived it was a forward pass in your own words. And you’re watering it down just saying he thought it needed a review, despite him saying “I’m going to show you a forward pass”. And you also contradict this balanced review call by saying he stuck to his guns having painted himself in to a corner, which rather suggests there was a “tiny” bit of predisposition initially.Hong Kong wrote:
And all of which are far more likely than he had a preconceived idea that he was going to call a forward pass.
I know he’s a fellow ref to you HK, and you have a moral obligation to back up your fellows, but just how many hand jobs can you physically hand out! You need a rest.
The rebuke was also made public, which increases the impact on Jonker.Hong Kong wrote:Rinks - Jonker was ‘punished’ - he was dropped from this week’s fixtures and, assumption on my behalf but with very good reason, will have been told that a fuck up like that again will cost him in future fixtures, quite possibly the RWC
Mark Reason has also pointed out that the tackle on Mounga as he passes to Endor was high and late, which normally would be clear and compelling evidence for the opposite conclusion.Kiwias wrote:The rebuke was also made public, which increases the impact on Jonker.Hong Kong wrote:Rinks - Jonker was ‘punished’ - he was dropped from this week’s fixtures and, assumption on my behalf but with very good reason, will have been told that a fuck up like that again will cost him in future fixtures, quite possibly the RWC
Well, I think he should have had the book thrown at him, not given a week off. We shall see if he actually loses any other fixtures over it, but I have no confidence that he won't be back once the furore dies down.Hong Kong wrote:Rinks - Jonker was ‘punished’ - he was dropped from this week’s fixtures and, assumption on my behalf but with very good reason, will have been told that a fuck up like that again will cost him in future fixtures, quite possibly the RWC
He's back this weekend for the Lions v Stormers gameRinkals wrote:Well, I think he should have had the book thrown at him, not given a week off. We shall see if he actually loses any other fixtures over it, but I have no confidence that he won't be back once the furore dies down.Hong Kong wrote:Rinks - Jonker was ‘punished’ - he was dropped from this week’s fixtures and, assumption on my behalf but with very good reason, will have been told that a fuck up like that again will cost him in future fixtures, quite possibly the RWC
A player gets a red card and is given a week or two off; would a coach not select him for the next match? Would he be ignored forever?Jensrsa wrote:He's back this weekend for the Lions v Stormers gameRinkals wrote:Well, I think he should have had the book thrown at him, not given a week off. We shall see if he actually loses any other fixtures over it, but I have no confidence that he won't be back once the furore dies down.Hong Kong wrote:Rinks - Jonker was ‘punished’ - he was dropped from this week’s fixtures and, assumption on my behalf but with very good reason, will have been told that a fuck up like that again will cost him in future fixtures, quite possibly the RWC
Hong Kong wrote:A player gets a red card and is given a week or two off; would a coach not select him for the next match? Would he be ignored forever?Jensrsa wrote:He's back this weekend for the Lions v Stormers gameRinkals wrote:Well, I think he should have had the book thrown at him, not given a week off. We shall see if he actually loses any other fixtures over it, but I have no confidence that he won't be back once the furore dies down.Hong Kong wrote:Rinks - Jonker was ‘punished’ - he was dropped from this week’s fixtures and, assumption on my behalf but with very good reason, will have been told that a fuck up like that again will cost him in future fixtures, quite possibly the RWC
Ahh. So he has the opportunity to fuck both teamsJensrsa wrote:Hong Kong wrote:A player gets a red card and is given a week or two off; would a coach not select him for the next match? Would he be ignored forever?Jensrsa wrote:He's back this weekend for the Lions v Stormers gameRinkals wrote:Well, I think he should have had the book thrown at him, not given a week off. We shall see if he actually loses any other fixtures over it, but I have no confidence that he won't be back once the furore dies down.Hong Kong wrote:Rinks - Jonker was ‘punished’ - he was dropped from this week’s fixtures and, assumption on my behalf but with very good reason, will have been told that a fuck up like that again will cost him in future fixtures, quite possibly the RWC
But he's at the Lions v Stormers game
He is a SharkInsane_Homer wrote:He'll fix it so that the result will screw the Sharks.