Planet Rugby Forum

Ali's Choice wrote:

Chilli wrote:

Insane_Homer wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:

Average Joe wrote:Saffa teams gets unnecessarily penalised when on tour. If these foreign refs weren't so bent the saffa teams would have the same penalty counts when playing away matches.

What a dumb rationale. Your referees are cheats and have been rightfully exposed. Trying to defend the indefensible makes you look more stupid, dishonest and parochial than you already do.

Exposed like this one was? No surprise he's Bryce's father.

AC is like Trump, he doesn't "do" facts.

Happy to chat about facts until you're blue in the face.

31 out of 32.

The number of matches the South African referees have officiated in SA where a local team has won the penalty count over a visiting team. Just once has a visiting team won the penalty count in SA when a local referee is in charge.

20-1.

The infamous penalty count delivered by disgraced match official Egon Seconds in the Lions vs Rebels match. Highly respected South African poster Jensra boasts about this farce regularly, arrogantly taunting Aussie and Kiwi fans to deal with it and move on!

You see AC, you are avoiding actually answering the question......................you are throwing all sorts of things into the arena to make it look like you are, but you are avoiding answering Jens.

Just answer his question without all this crap.

You wont though, because you cant.

You have the morals of Donald Trump.

Ali's Choice wrote:

Chilli wrote:

Insane_Homer wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:

Average Joe wrote:Saffa teams gets unnecessarily penalised when on tour. If these foreign refs weren't so bent the saffa teams would have the same penalty counts when playing away matches.

What a dumb rationale. Your referees are cheats and have been rightfully exposed. Trying to defend the indefensible makes you look more stupid, dishonest and parochial than you already do.

Exposed like this one was? No surprise he's Bryce's father.

AC is like Trump, he doesn't "do" facts.

Happy to chat about facts until you're blue in the face.

31 out of 32.

The number of matches the South African referees have officiated in SA where a local team has won the penalty count over a visiting team. Just once has a visiting team won the penalty count in SA when a local referee is in charge.

20-1.

The infamous penalty count delivered by disgraced match official Egon Seconds in the Lions vs Rebels match. Highly respected South African poster Jensra boasts about this farce regularly, arrogantly taunting Aussie and Kiwi fans to deal with it and move on!

Seconds is one of the kakest refs out there but even though he is a born Saffa he learned his trade in Oz.

Average Joe wrote:Seconds is one of the kakest refs out there but even though he is a born Saffa he learned his trade in Oz.

Boom! Headshot

Yer Man wrote:

Average Joe wrote:Seconds is one of the kakest refs out there but even though he is a born Saffa he learned his trade in Oz.

Boom! Headshot

He's thinking of Rasta who spent 6 months in Oz and now talks with a fake Ozzie accent

Maybe. Just maybe the Saffer teams are more disciplined than the Kiwi and Ozzie thugs

Only looked at the Lions figures

2016-2020: 76% of all games the penalty count was in their favour (Kiwi refs blow in their favour 68% of the time, Ozzie refs 67%)

Yer Man wrote:

Average Joe wrote:Seconds is one of the kakest refs out there but even though he is a born Saffa he learned his trade in Oz.

Boom! Headshot

Headshot as in completely missing my head, and every other part of my cyber body?

Jensrsa wrote:Maybe. Just maybe the Saffer teams are more disciplined than the Kiwi and Ozzie thugs

Only looked at the Lions figures

2016-2020: 76% of all games the penalty count was in their favour (Kiwi refs blow in their favour 68% of the time, Ozzie refs 67%)

AC will choose to ignore these facts. It also ignores different play styles- playing against south africa teams in south africa, they often gonna give away lots of maul/scrum penalties due to south african forward pressure.

Lemoentjie wrote:

Jensrsa wrote:Maybe. Just maybe the Saffer teams are more disciplined than the Kiwi and Ozzie thugs

Only looked at the Lions figures

2016-2020: 76% of all games the penalty count was in their favour (Kiwi refs blow in their favour 68% of the time, Ozzie refs 67%)

AC will choose to ignore these facts. It also ignores different play styles- playing against south africa teams in south africa, they often gonna give away lots of maul/scrum penalties due to south african forward pressure.

Are you guys all as dumb as you appear?

The reason that the South African teams dominate penalty statsd at the moment is because you always have Saffer referees at home and you win the penalty count 97% of the time under your own referees when playing NZ/Aust teams. Only once since the non-neutral referee law came into effect has a South African referee penalised one of his own teams more than a foreign team. In 31 out of 32 matches under SA referees, South African teams have won the penalty count. That's a disgraceful stat and the entire SANZAAR board should be sacked for allowing such shameless cheating to continue into its fourth season.

Jensrsa wrote:

Yer Man wrote:

Average Joe wrote:Seconds is one of the kakest refs out there but even though he is a born Saffa he learned his trade in Oz.

Boom! Headshot

He's thinking of Rasta who spent 6 months in Oz and now talks with a fake Ozzie accent

Ja my bad but Seconds is pretty kak too though.

Ali's Choice wrote:

Lemoentjie wrote:

Jensrsa wrote:Maybe. Just maybe the Saffer teams are more disciplined than the Kiwi and Ozzie thugs

Only looked at the Lions figures

2016-2020: 76% of all games the penalty count was in their favour (Kiwi refs blow in their favour 68% of the time, Ozzie refs 67%)

AC will choose to ignore these facts. It also ignores different play styles- playing against south africa teams in south africa, they often gonna give away lots of maul/scrum penalties due to south african forward pressure.

Are you guys all as dumb as you appear?

The reason that the South African teams dominate penalty statsd at the moment is because you always have Saffer referees at home and you win the penalty count 97% of the time under your own referees when playing NZ/Aust teams. Only once since the non-neutral referee law came into effect has a South African referee penalised one of his own teams more than a foreign team. In 31 out of 32 matches under SA referees, South African teams have won the penalty count. That's a disgraceful stat and the entire SANZAAR board should be sacked for allowing such shameless cheating to continue into its fourth season.

Who was this Ref?

Average Joe wrote: Who was this Ref?

What a dumb question.

The point isn't the referee. The point is that just once since the non-neutral rule came into effect in Super Rugby has a South African ref officiated a South African team more harshly in terms of penalties than a visiting team. It's like we're back to the 'bad old days' of Apartheid era South African referees. the days when the Springboks enjoyed a healthy winning advantage over the All Blacks. I am sure it's just a coincidence that this record turned around dramatically once neutral referees were used for test matches.

I only asked because I'd like to have a word with him.

Average Joe wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:

Lemoentjie wrote:

Jensrsa wrote:Maybe. Just maybe the Saffer teams are more disciplined than the Kiwi and Ozzie thugs

Only looked at the Lions figures

2016-2020: 76% of all games the penalty count was in their favour (Kiwi refs blow in their favour 68% of the time, Ozzie refs 67%)

AC will choose to ignore these facts. It also ignores different play styles- playing against south africa teams in south africa, they often gonna give away lots of maul/scrum penalties due to south african forward pressure.

Are you guys all as dumb as you appear?

The reason that the South African teams dominate penalty statsd at the moment is because you always have Saffer referees at home and you win the penalty count 97% of the time under your own referees when playing NZ/Aust teams. Only once since the non-neutral referee law came into effect has a South African referee penalised one of his own teams more than a foreign team. In 31 out of 32 matches under SA referees, South African teams have won the penalty count. That's a disgraceful stat and the entire SANZAAR board should be sacked for allowing such shameless cheating to continue into its fourth season.

Who was this Ref?

Egon Seconds

Jensrsa wrote: Egon Seconds

Mr 20-1

Ali's Choice wrote:

Jensrsa wrote: Egon Seconds

Mr 20-1

2017 Lions v Sunwolves 6/3 Penalty count
(That's just looking at the Lions stats)

If not him then your statement is wrong

Jensrsa wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:

Jensrsa wrote: Egon Seconds

Mr 20-1

2017 Lions v Sunwolves 6/3 Penalty count
(That's just looking at the Lions stats)

If not him then your statement is wrong

You mentioned his name. I don't who the ref was, I just know that it's only happened once.

What a luxury it must be for you as a Lions fan to know that any time you play a Kiwi or Aussie team at home, you will easily win the penalty count. Must be so relaxing knowing that your referees will always try their best to make you win?

After 4 Rounds of Soup 2020. Worst "Homer" Pen Counts.

Round 3 - Jaguares v Reds, Ref: Federico Anselmi (Arg) - 3-13 - Difference +10
Round 2 - Highlander v Sharks, Ref Angus Gardner (Aus) 7-15 - Difference +8 (at odds with big win for Sharks despite pen count).
Round 3 - Rebels v Waratahs, Damon Murphy (Aus) 5-11 - Difference +6
Round 4 - Chiefs v Brumbies, Brendan Pickerill (NZ) 7-13 - Difference +6
Round 1 - Stormers v Hurricanes, Jaco Peyper (SA), 7-12 - Difference +5
Round 4 - Reds v Sunwolves, Nic Berry (Aus), 9-13, Difference +4
Round 1 - Blues v Chiefs, Angus Gardner (Aus), 8-11 - Difference +3
Round 2 - Chiefs v Crusaders, Ben 0'Keefe (NZ), 10-13 - Difference +3
Round 4 - Bulls v Blues, Marius VDW (SA), 12-15 - Difference +3
Round 2 - Brumbies v Rebels, Nic Berry (Aus), 9-11 - Difference +2

7 games where 'home' adv count was +1, with 5 neutral refs, 2 home refs, 2 home wins. 1 NZ, 1 SA.
4 games where the pen counts were even, 3 had a referee advantage

10 games have had a home ref advantage 7 homer wins. 3 SA, 2 NZ, 1 Aus, 1 Arg.
2 games have had an away ref advantage with 1 win. 1 SA

All games(27), home sides pen conceded = 247, Away team pen conceded = 289. (53.9% home ground advantage)
Neutral ref games(15), home sides pen conceded = 140, Away team pen conceded = 158. (53.0% home ground advantage)
Homer ref games(12), homer side pen conceded = 107, Away team pen conceded = 131. (55.0% homer ref advantage)

Saffers have some of the best refs. It’s the unknown dude that scares the shit out of me. He’s the one you see high fiving saffer try scorers.

Jensrsa wrote: Egon Seconds

Ah well, thats OK then. He's made up more than necessary for his one slip up.

Ali's Choice wrote: You mentioned his name. I don't who the ref was, I just know that it's only happened once.

What a luxury it must be for you as a Lions fan to know that any time you play a Kiwi or Aussie team at home, you will easily win the penalty count. Must be so relaxing knowing that your referees will always try their best to make you win?

Of course it is considering that SA, Kiwi and Ozzie refs normally penalise the Lions less than their opposition, no matter where they play, showing that the Lions tend to be more disciplined than their opposition and has been since at least 2016

Jensrsa wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote: You mentioned his name. I don't who the ref was, I just know that it's only happened once.

What a luxury it must be for you as a Lions fan to know that any time you play a Kiwi or Aussie team at home, you will easily win the penalty count. Must be so relaxing knowing that your referees will always try their best to make you win?

Of course it is considering that SA, Kiwi and Ozzie refs normally penalise the Lions less than their opposition, no matter where they play, showing that the Lions tend to be more disciplined than their opposition and has been since at least 2016

Sure.

What about the other saffer teams? They’re all more disciplined than each other too?
But why are they 5 times more disciplined when they play in South Africa AGAINST foreign teams? It’s a truly remarkable statistic. And weird that they only gained this bizarre, hyper, geographically localised discipline once neutral refs were canned.

Why can’t you admit you benefit from systemic cheating?

When you play conservative rugby, it will only follow that you will concede fewer penalties.

towny wrote: Sure.

What about the other saffer teams? They’re all more disciplined than each other too?
But why are they 5 times more disciplined when they play in South Africa AGAINST foreign teams? It’s a truly remarkable statistic. And weird that they only gained this bizarre, hyper, geographically localised discipline once neutral refs were canned.

Why can’t you admit you benefit from systemic cheating?

5 times more disciplined? You need to work on your maths

I haven't looked at the other SA teams' stats yet and I have yet see you or your FleeWee buddy provide any proof of cheating

handyman wrote:When you play conservative rugby, it will only follow that you will concede fewer penalties.

Why do saffer teams only play conservative rugby against foreign teams only when they play at home? What happens on tour that turns them into the Harlem Globetrotters?

Ali's Choice wrote:

Average Joe wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:

Average Joe wrote:Strange how our "cheating ref's" could not get us to win a cup in the past 10 years. You would think that if we were such big "cheats" we would have won at least a few by now.

Nope because you're shit. Even with cheating referees your teams are still shit.

Then why are you so worked up about our "cheating" refs?

Because I am a man of morals and cheating of any kind disgusts me.

Not a fan of Richie McCaw then?

Jensrsa wrote:

towny wrote: Sure.

What about the other saffer teams? They’re all more disciplined than each other too?
But why are they 5 times more disciplined when they play in South Africa AGAINST foreign teams? It’s a truly remarkable statistic. And weird that they only gained this bizarre, hyper, geographically localised discipline once neutral refs were canned.

Why can’t you admit you benefit from systemic cheating?

5 times more disciplined? You need to work on your maths

I haven't looked at the other SA teams' stats yet and I have yet see you or your FleeWee buddy provide any proof of cheating

Oh, you haven’t looked at the evidence and so this means there is no proof?

That is a great argument that actually worked for the Republican senators during Trump’s impeachment. Maybe that’s how South Africa’s judicial system works too? Makes sense.

towny wrote:

handyman wrote:When you play conservative rugby, it will only follow that you will concede fewer penalties.

Why do saffer teams only play conservative rugby against foreign teams only when they play at home? What happens on tour that turns them into the Harlem Globetrotters?

No change in style, we just come up against biased refs

BokJock wrote:

towny wrote:

handyman wrote:When you play conservative rugby, it will only follow that you will concede fewer penalties.

Why do saffer teams only play conservative rugby against foreign teams only when they play at home? What happens on tour that turns them into the Harlem Globetrotters?

No change in style, we just come up against biased refs

Even when playing each other? Interesting. You could make it far in the ANC boet.

Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.

Ali's Choice wrote:Last night the Waratahs got caned by a South African referee against the Lions, losing the penalty count 11-2. Egon Seconds was the referee last night, the same referee who officiated a shameful 20-1 penalty count in favour of the Stormers versus the Rebels in March.

On Friday night the Crusaders dominated just about every aspect of their match against the Bulls, but were absolutely annihilated in the penalty count 12-3.

Are we back to the bad old days, when South African referees focus only on the infringements of visiting teams? These lopsided penalty counts are an absolute embarrassment to the competition.

towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.

You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.

jos wrote:

towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.

You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.

Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?

towny wrote:

jos wrote:

towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.

You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.

Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?

No even if it doesn't help. For exemple Japan is a very rich country, where people are highly civilisated, yet corruption is quite big. And countries like China and India are rising, but I don't think it means people there are becoming more honest.
On the contrary some countries fall from grace in their history, and it wasn't because people were becoming corrupt.

I think my favourite example of this was the Crusaders vs Sharks in 2015.

Stuart Berry (good riddance) was in charge of a 13-4 penalty count in the Sharks favour, including dishing out 3 yellow cards in 4 minutes against Crusaders players Nepo Laulala, Keiron Fonotia, and Nemani Nadolo in the first half. Nadolo was carded for kicking the ball away, despite not hearing the ref blow his whistle in a noisy stadium. I've never seen someone carded for this before or since. While we were three men down, Matt Todd still managed to score a rolling maul try against a 15 man Sharks.

When it came time for referee Berry to red card serial-offender Jean Deysel for a deliberate knee to the head just before half time, he practically apologised to the Sharks captain.

The final score was 52-10 to the Crusaders. I guess cheating doesn't always pay.

mrbrownstone wrote:I think my favourite example of this was the Crusaders vs Sharks in 2015.

Stuart Berry (good riddance) was in charge of a 13-4 penalty count in the Sharks favour, including dishing out 3 yellow cards in 4 minutes against Crusaders players Nepo Laulala, Keiron Fonotia, and Nemani Nadolo in the first half. Nadolo was carded for kicking the ball away, despite not hearing the ref blow his whistle in a noisy stadium. I've never seen someone carded for this before or since. While we were three men down, Matt Todd still managed to score a rolling maul try against a 15 man Sharks.

When it came time for referee Berry to red card serial-offender Jean Deysel for a deliberate knee to the head just before half time, he practically apologised to the Sharks captain.

The final score was 52-10 to the Crusaders. I guess cheating doesn't always pay.

The Reds lost 23-20 to the Lions under Berry in 2014. The penalty count was 17-4. At one stage the Reds had a 6 man scrum (two players yellow carded, of course) shunt the Lions back making them stand up. No penalty.

Aussies and Kiwis be like...get over it FFS

towny wrote:

jos wrote:

towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.

You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.

Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?

The richest country in the world has a thoroughly corrupt head of state

BokJock wrote:

towny wrote:

jos wrote:

towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.

You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.

Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?

The richest country in the world has a thoroughly corrupt head of state

The Saudis aren't corrupt you are just racist and an islamophobe.

jos wrote:

towny wrote:

jos wrote:

towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.

You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.

Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?

No even if it doesn't help. For exemple Japan is a very rich country, where people are highly civilisated, yet corruption is quite big. And countries like China and India are rising, but I don't think it means people there are becoming more honest.
On the contrary some countries fall from grace in their history, and it wasn't because people were becoming corrupt.

Low corruption and high standard of living are very closely correlated. Maybe that’s another extraordinary coincidence?!

Well Seconds is gone, which as his surname would suggest is well overdue. I would venture he change his name by deed poll to Egon Fifths.

Good SA refs still exist, such as Jaco Peyper who is a great bloke.

This is by no means a witch hunt against SA refs.

It is a witch hunt against corrupt SA refs.