Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African referees?

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jos
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by jos »

towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.
You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.
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towny
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by towny »

jos wrote:
towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.
You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.
Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?
jos
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by jos »

towny wrote:
jos wrote:
towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.
You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.
Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?
No even if it doesn't help. For exemple Japan is a very rich country, where people are highly civilisated, yet corruption is quite big. And countries like China and India are rising, but I don't think it means people there are becoming more honest.
On the contrary some countries fall from grace in their history, and it wasn't because people were becoming corrupt.
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mrbrownstone
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by mrbrownstone »

I think my favourite example of this was the Crusaders vs Sharks in 2015.

Stuart Berry (good riddance) was in charge of a 13-4 penalty count in the Sharks favour, including dishing out 3 yellow cards in 4 minutes against Crusaders players Nepo Laulala, Keiron Fonotia, and Nemani Nadolo in the first half. Nadolo was carded for kicking the ball away, despite not hearing the ref blow his whistle in a noisy stadium. I've never seen someone carded for this before or since. While we were three men down, Matt Todd still managed to score a rolling maul try against a 15 man Sharks.

When it came time for referee Berry to red card serial-offender Jean Deysel for a deliberate knee to the head just before half time, he practically apologised to the Sharks captain.

The final score was 52-10 to the Crusaders. I guess cheating doesn't always pay.
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Thomas
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Thomas »

mrbrownstone wrote:I think my favourite example of this was the Crusaders vs Sharks in 2015.

Stuart Berry (good riddance) was in charge of a 13-4 penalty count in the Sharks favour, including dishing out 3 yellow cards in 4 minutes against Crusaders players Nepo Laulala, Keiron Fonotia, and Nemani Nadolo in the first half. Nadolo was carded for kicking the ball away, despite not hearing the ref blow his whistle in a noisy stadium. I've never seen someone carded for this before or since. While we were three men down, Matt Todd still managed to score a rolling maul try against a 15 man Sharks.

When it came time for referee Berry to red card serial-offender Jean Deysel for a deliberate knee to the head just before half time, he practically apologised to the Sharks captain.

The final score was 52-10 to the Crusaders. I guess cheating doesn't always pay.
The Reds lost 23-20 to the Lions under Berry in 2014. The penalty count was 17-4. At one stage the Reds had a 6 man scrum (two players yellow carded, of course) shunt the Lions back making them stand up. No penalty.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by jambanja »

Aussies and Kiwis be like...get over it FFS

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BokJock
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by BokJock »

towny wrote:
jos wrote:
towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.
You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.
Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?
The richest country in the world has a thoroughly corrupt head of state
Crazy Ed
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Crazy Ed »

BokJock wrote:
towny wrote:
jos wrote:
towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.
You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.
Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?
The richest country in the world has a thoroughly corrupt head of state

The Saudis aren't corrupt you are just racist and an islamophobe.
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towny
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by towny »

jos wrote:
towny wrote:
jos wrote:
towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.
You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.
Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?
No even if it doesn't help. For exemple Japan is a very rich country, where people are highly civilisated, yet corruption is quite big. And countries like China and India are rising, but I don't think it means people there are becoming more honest.
On the contrary some countries fall from grace in their history, and it wasn't because people were becoming corrupt.
Low corruption and high standard of living are very closely correlated. Maybe that’s another extraordinary coincidence?!
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by jdogscoop »

Well Seconds is gone, which as his surname would suggest is well overdue. I would venture he change his name by deed poll to Egon Fifths.

Good SA refs still exist, such as Jaco Peyper who is a great bloke.

This is by no means a witch hunt against SA refs.

It is a witch hunt against corrupt SA refs.
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Average Joe
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Average Joe »

I just wish those rich first world countries would stop strip mining the earth for fossil fuels.
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BokJock
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by BokJock »

Crazy Ed wrote:
BokJock wrote:
towny wrote:
jos wrote:
towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.
You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.
Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?
The richest country in the world has a thoroughly corrupt head of state

The Saudis aren't corrupt you are just racist and an islamophobe.
:lol:
jos
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by jos »

towny wrote:
jos wrote:
towny wrote:
jos wrote:
towny wrote:Perhaps the reason NZ and Australian societies aren’t nearly as corrupt as South Africa is because the people won’t tolerate it. Seems like the tolerance you have is cultural.

I’m not saying we are better people, it’s just that we have higher integrity and demand more of it from others. But would that by definition mean we are better people? Hard to say.
You aren't as corrupt mainly because you aren't a poor country. That's all, nothing more. You haven't an higher integrity as you think.
Maybe you’re poor because you’re corrupt?
No even if it doesn't help. For exemple Japan is a very rich country, where people are highly civilisated, yet corruption is quite big. And countries like China and India are rising, but I don't think it means people there are becoming more honest.
On the contrary some countries fall from grace in their history, and it wasn't because people were becoming corrupt.
Low corruption and high standard of living are very closely correlated. Maybe that’s another extraordinary coincidence?!
I think in English you say correlation does not imply causation.
Country don't become richer because people have an natural higher integrity. If the corruption tend to be lower in developped countries, it's mainly because as people have more wealth, they are less tempt to ask bride, add to that justice in those countries are more prone to pursue corrupted people, whereas in poor countries justice has other fish to fry.
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towny
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by towny »

So South African refs cheat because they are poor. I guess that makes sense.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

towny wrote:So South African refs cheat because they are poor. I guess that makes sense.
So let's just try and understand the rationale of South African fans.

Corruption and dishonesty is endemic in their country. At every level of every sector in South African society, corruption is normal. It's the accepted way things are done. From the highest levels of political office, to the private sector, and of course the public sector, everyone is corrupt. Which means they are dishonest.

So there is widespread, endemic corruption and dishonesty across the entire nation, in all fields and across all walks of life, but they expect us to believe that somehow their lowly paid Rugby match officials are paragons of virtue, infallible, and beyond reproach?
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Sandstorm »

Broken. Record. :yawn:
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

Sandstorm wrote:Broken. Record. :yawn:
Typical response. I'm going to keep complaining until something is done to stop SA wrecking Super Rugby. This is a huge issue and if the boot was on the other foot, and Kiwi referees were routinely delivering 20-1 penalty counts against South African touring teams, your guys would have boycotted the comp years ago. And probably killed someone. Sort your f**king referees out!
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by jambanja »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Broken. Record. :yawn:
Typical response. I'm going to keep complaining until something is done to stop SA wrecking Super Rugby. This is a huge issue and if the boot was on the other foot, and Kiwi referees were routinely delivering 20-1 penalty counts against South African touring teams, your guys would have boycotted the comp years ago. And probably killed someone. Sort your f**king referees out!
Sue, you're shouting at tea
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mrbrownstone
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by mrbrownstone »

jdogscoop wrote:Well Seconds is gone, which as his surname would suggest is well overdue. I would venture he change his name by deed poll to Egon Fifths.

Good SA refs still exist, such as Jaco Peyper who is a great bloke.

This is by no means a witch hunt against SA refs.

It is a witch hunt against corrupt SA refs.
Yup, couldn't have been easy for him to dish out that red card in the 2017 final in front of a rabid Ellis Park crowd. Dealt out a perfectly even 11-11 penalty count, too.
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Insane_Homer
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Insane_Homer »

Round 5 highlights

2 SA teams at the hands of NZ referees this weekend.

SA teams penalised - 32
SA opponents penalised - 18

NZ team with NZ ref at home against Aus team - 7-12

;)
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Lemoentjie
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Lemoentjie »

Insane_Homer wrote:Round 5 highlights

2 SA teams at the hands of NZ referees this weekend.

SA teams penalised - 32
SA opponents penalised - 18

NZ team with NZ ref at home against Aus team - 7-12

;)
SANZAAR should look into this. Deeply worrying for all true rugby fans.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

Lemoentjie wrote:
Insane_Homer wrote:Round 5 highlights

2 SA teams at the hands of NZ referees this weekend.

SA teams penalised - 32
SA opponents penalised - 18

NZ team with NZ ref at home against Aus team - 7-12

;)
SANZAAR should look into this. Deeply worrying for all true rugby fans.
When a South African team cops a 20-1 penalty count from a NZ or Australian referee officiating a team from their own country, then I'll listen to your complaining. Until then, shut the f**k up. Your referees are proudly and openly corrupt and the entire world now knows this. The sooner South Africa f**ks off from Super Rugby the better.
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Average Joe
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Average Joe »

There are kak refs everywhere but to claim a ref is corrupt is a very serious allegation. The NZ ref for the Reds/Sharks game this past weekend was about just as kak as Seconds. Now I reckon he's just a bit incompetent and would never outright claim that he is corrupt, unless there is clear evidence of corruption. Like maybe an e-mail or something.
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handyman
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by handyman »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Lemoentjie wrote:
Insane_Homer wrote:Round 5 highlights

2 SA teams at the hands of NZ referees this weekend.

SA teams penalised - 32
SA opponents penalised - 18

NZ team with NZ ref at home against Aus team - 7-12

;)
SANZAAR should look into this. Deeply worrying for all true rugby fans.
When a South African team cops a 20-1 penalty count from a NZ or Australian referee officiating a team from their own country, then I'll listen to your complaining. Until then, shut the f**k up. Your referees are proudly and openly corrupt and the entire world now knows this. The sooner South Africa f**ks off from Super Rugby the better.
So much anger. It must have hurt you a lot to see SA come from nowhere to win the RWC.

Regarding the referees, I'm sure a few saffer posters have missed your 20-1 post about Egon Seconds. Better post it a few more times :thumbup:
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

Average Joe wrote:There are kak refs everywhere but to claim a ref is corrupt is a very serious allegation. The NZ ref for the Reds/Sharks game this past weekend was about just as kak as Seconds. Now I reckon he's just a bit incompetent and would never outright claim that he is corrupt, unless there is clear evidence of corruption. Like maybe an e-mail or something.
Find me another 20-1 penalty count in the pro-era and I'll never disparage another South African again.

Corruption is endemic in every facet of South African society. From the highest public office, to big business, to the public sector and trade unions. Why would lowly paid Rugby match officials be the only people in South Africa who aren't corrupt?
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Insane_Homer »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Lemoentjie wrote:
Insane_Homer wrote:Round 5 highlights

2 SA teams at the hands of NZ referees this weekend.

SA teams penalised - 32
SA opponents penalised - 18

NZ team with NZ ref at home against Aus team - 7-12

;)
SANZAAR should look into this. Deeply worrying for all true rugby fans.
When a South African team cops a 20-1 penalty count from a NZ or Australian referee officiating a team from their own country, then I'll listen to your complaining. Until then, shut the f**k up. Your referees are proudly and openly corrupt and the entire world now knows this. The sooner South Africa f**ks off from Super Rugby the better.
How about when a NZ referee sent an email to his non-SA counterparts advocating cheating against SA teams using derogatory language, then had it swept under the carpet and the culprit then gets promoted for his effort? ;)
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

Insane_Homer wrote:How about when a NZ referee sent an email to his non-SA counterparts advocating cheating against SA teams using derogatory, then had it swept under the carpet and the culprit then gets promoted for his effort? ;)
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Lemoentjie
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Lemoentjie »

Ever heard of self-awareness?
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Big Nipper »

Oh my gawd - AC this is not going too well for you
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Average Joe
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Average Joe »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Average Joe wrote:There are kak refs everywhere but to claim a ref is corrupt is a very serious allegation. The NZ ref for the Reds/Sharks game this past weekend was about just as kak as Seconds. Now I reckon he's just a bit incompetent and would never outright claim that he is corrupt, unless there is clear evidence of corruption. Like maybe an e-mail or something.
Find me another 20-1 penalty count in the pro-era and I'll never disparage another South African again.

Corruption is endemic in every facet of South African society. From the highest public office, to big business, to the public sector and trade unions. Why would lowly paid Rugby match officials be the only people in South Africa who aren't corrupt?
That's a very big claim for a Samoan AB supporter who lives in Aus to make about a country he's most probably never even visited. Be careful now, I'm sure we wont need to dig to deep to find examples of corruption in what ever country you decide you are from.
Last edited by Average Joe on Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

Lemoentjie wrote:Ever heard of self-awareness?
20-1
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

Average Joe wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Average Joe wrote:There are kak refs everywhere but to claim a ref is corrupt is a very serious allegation. The NZ ref for the Reds/Sharks game this past weekend was about just as kak as Seconds. Now I reckon he's just a bit incompetent and would never outright claim that he is corrupt, unless there is clear evidence of corruption. Like maybe an e-mail or something.
Find me another 20-1 penalty count in the pro-era and I'll never disparage another South African again.

Corruption is endemic in every facet of South African society. From the highest public office, to big business, to the public sector and trade unions. Why would lowly paid Rugby match officials be the only people in South Africa who aren't corrupt?
That's a very big claim for a Samoan AB supporter who lives in Aus to make about a country he's most probably never even visited. Be careful now, I'm sure we wont need to dig to deep to find examples of corruption in what ever country you decide you are from.
Not my claim, SA posters have been complaining about the corruption in their country since I joined this forum in 2005.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Insane_Homer »

My favourite moment from the son of the cheat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KPP0k1GQVM

At this stage, 25 mins in, Sharks were leading 3-5 the Crusaders in the Qualifier knockout game. Sharks scrum, as subtle as a headbutt.

Monumental effort from Bryce, :thumbup:
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Average Joe
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Average Joe »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Average Joe wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Average Joe wrote:There are kak refs everywhere but to claim a ref is corrupt is a very serious allegation. The NZ ref for the Reds/Sharks game this past weekend was about just as kak as Seconds. Now I reckon he's just a bit incompetent and would never outright claim that he is corrupt, unless there is clear evidence of corruption. Like maybe an e-mail or something.
Find me another 20-1 penalty count in the pro-era and I'll never disparage another South African again.

Corruption is endemic in every facet of South African society. From the highest public office, to big business, to the public sector and trade unions. Why would lowly paid Rugby match officials be the only people in South Africa who aren't corrupt?
That's a very big claim for a Samoan AB supporter who lives in Aus to make about a country he's most probably never even visited. Be careful now, I'm sure we wont need to dig to deep to find examples of corruption in what ever country you decide you are from.
Not my claim, SA posters have been complaining about the corruption in their country since I joined this forum in 2005.
Have you ever visited the Australian politics thread? Or any other politics thread for that matter?
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Insane_Homer »

another one of my favorite, subtle, NZ referee blunders
The Bulls were right to ask for a penalty on the halfway line after their winger Bjorn Basson was hurt in an incident of foul play at the end of their 29-23 loss against the Blues at Loftus Versfeld on Saturday.

SANZAR referees boss Lyndon Bray has admitted that referee Steve Walsh “got it wrong” when he refused Bulls captain Pierre Spies’ pleas to award the penalty after the game.

Basson scored in the 79th minute of the game, and as he went over Blues winger Rene Ranger hit him illegally in attempting to stop him, an incident which earned Ranger a yellow card and a citing. The citing was later deemed to be a red card, and Ranger was sentenced to a two week ban by a SANZAR disciplinary tribunal for the incident.

But when it happened, Spies asked rightly for the penalty on the halfway line, the right call after a yellow card was awarded for foul play. Walsh refused, citing the time on the clock, which had expired.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

I love the way South African posters are still defending Egon Seconds and other dodgy referees long after their own national union has sanctioned them for their unprecedented refereeing performances.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Chilli »

Has the question posted in the fred title been answered yet?
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Insane_Homer »

Remember Paul Honiss's 'mistake' that got Ireland a famous win against the Boks in 2004?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnJQQtkTc6g

Honiss calls time off, tells John Smit "Talk to your players please", then allows Ireland a quick tap to score the crucial try.
Honiss said there had been a "misunderstanding" and that he had never indicated he was going to give Smit time to talk to his team.
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Chilli
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Chilli »

Ali's Choice wrote:I love the way South African posters are still defending Egon Seconds and other dodgy referees long after their own national union has sanctioned them for their unprecedented refereeing performances.
please quote South African posters defending Egon Seconds.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Sards »

Chilli wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:I love the way South African posters are still defending Egon Seconds and other dodgy referees long after their own national union has sanctioned them for their unprecedented refereeing performances.
please quote South African posters defending Egon Seconds.

He is a twat.......
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