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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:40 am 
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happyhooker wrote:
It's why she's still there. No one wants to either wield the knife or take over this shit show and (it seems) no one is prepared to be the stalking horse.

I genuinely believe May chose party over country and she's managed to fúck them both up.


I think.more that she tried to satisfy both was her problem. If she'd gone for a straight hard Brexit she could have got it through at the expense of the country. If she'd gone for a bipartisan Brexit it would have been at the expense of the party. She tried to satisfy both, and when that didn't work she discovered that the alternative options had been closed off by her own actions.

The Tory party being engaged in ideological fuckwittery hasn't helped at all, and Labour leadership rules resulting in Corbyn being the leader of the opposition was the final blow. The system at the moment is designed not to reach agreement


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:54 am 
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Saint wrote:
Not just ungovernable, but unelectable. Maybe for a generation, maybe longer.

Whatever happens post Brexit, the Tories will take the blame (let's not kid ourselves, there's not going to be anything to take credit for)

Depends what direction they go. 70% plus of their voters are/were Leavers, they need to get those voters back asap.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:11 am 
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happyhooker wrote:
It's why she's still there. No one wants to either wield the knife or take over this shit show and (it seems) no one is prepared to be the stalking horse.

I genuinely believe May chose party over country and she's managed to fúck them both up.


I think her mistake was choosing neither party or the country, she played fast and loose lying to cabinet and listening to the likes of Robbins. She genuinely believed she was above all and it’s impressive she’s carried it this far. And yet Labour are bumbling along because deep down they don’t want the gig at the moment, same as when they chose Miliband.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:24 am 
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A hard brexiteer can save the Tories for future elections. Other wise why bother the May/Hammond version of the Lib Dem’s.... liberals with xenophobia isn’t appealing to anyone.

Mays record will be worst PM ever.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:08 am 
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Saint wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
It's why she's still there. No one wants to either wield the knife or take over this shit show and (it seems) no one is prepared to be the stalking horse.

I genuinely believe May chose party over country and she's managed to fúck them both up.


I think.more that she tried to satisfy both was her problem. If she'd gone for a straight hard Brexit she could have got it through at the expense of the country. If she'd gone for a bipartisan Brexit it would have been at the expense of the party. She tried to satisfy both, and when that didn't work she discovered that the alternative options had been closed off by her own actions.

The Tory party being engaged in ideological fuckwittery hasn't helped at all, and Labour leadership rules resulting in Corbyn being the leader of the opposition was the final blow. The system at the moment is designed not to reach agreement

To be fair parliament reached an agreement which passed a vote and was signed into law. The problem with the system is the 29th of March came and went and they ignored their pledge because they have no honour


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:15 am 
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Not really a shock the Tories feck the country up again because of right wing ideological squabbles.
Useless bigotted twats, Party before country every time.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:21 am 
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c69 wrote:
Not really a shock the Tories feck the country up again because of right wing ideological squabbles.
Useless bigotted twats, Party before country every time.



Record employment, wages in front of inflation and good growth. Record Health funding.

Sure they need to sort out the debt and cut some taxes but considering what the laughable twats from the left gave us in 2010 it’s a miracle....


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:25 am 
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Rugby2023 wrote:
Saint wrote:
Not just ungovernable, but unelectable. Maybe for a generation, maybe longer.

Whatever happens post Brexit, the Tories will take the blame (let's not kid ourselves, there's not going to be anything to take credit for)

Depends what direction they go. 70% plus of their voters are/were Leavers, they need to get those voters back asap.


Even if they only lose the 30% remainers (who are leaving ssap) then they're screwed. The Tory party needs both sides.

Not to mention those that simply have lost faith in their reputation for rational governance


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:27 am 
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If Farage's money making racket does as well as is expected today - could he carry that over into an impending general election?

What are the chances of the moronic wing of the 17.4 million voting him into (coalition) power?


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:27 am 
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Saint wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:
Saint wrote:
Not just ungovernable, but unelectable. Maybe for a generation, maybe longer.

Whatever happens post Brexit, the Tories will take the blame (let's not kid ourselves, there's not going to be anything to take credit for)

Depends what direction they go. 70% plus of their voters are/were Leavers, they need to get those voters back asap.


Even if they only lose the 30% remainers (who are leaving ssap) then they're screwed. The Tory party needs both sides.

Not to mention those that simply have lost faith in their reputation for rational governance



The only thing that can save us is people don’t want Marxism.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:28 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:
Saint wrote:
Not just ungovernable, but unelectable. Maybe for a generation, maybe longer.

Whatever happens post Brexit, the Tories will take the blame (let's not kid ourselves, there's not going to be anything to take credit for)

Depends what direction they go. 70% plus of their voters are/were Leavers, they need to get those voters back asap.


Even if they only lose the 30% remainers (who are leaving ssap) then they're screwed. The Tory party needs both sides.

Not to mention those that simply have lost faith in their reputation for rational governance



The only thing that can save us is people don’t want Marxism.


I agree with you for once - Lib Dems it is :nod:


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:30 am 
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Lib Dem’s will be funny, the economy will still bomb, if only because the cost of power will rocket.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:31 am 
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bimboman wrote:
c69 wrote:
Not really a shock the Tories feck the country up again because of right wing ideological squabbles.
Useless bigotted twats, Party before country every time.



Record employment, wages in front of inflation and good growth. Record Health funding.

Sure they need to sort out the debt and cut some taxes but considering what the laughable twats from the left gave us in 2010 it’s a miracle....


Record employment with poverty wages FFS


Quote:
More than 500,000 British workers have been swept into working poverty over the past five years, according to a report that shows the number of people with a job but living below the breadline has risen faster than employment.

In the latest sign that the link between entering work and making ends meet has become increasingly frayed in 21st-century Britain, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation (JRF) said that the number of workers in poverty hit 4 million last year, meaning about one in eight in the economy are now classified as working poor.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... arity-says


Quote:
End of year stats
April 2018 – March 2019

Record 1.6m food bank parcels given to people in past year as the Trussell Trust calls for end to Universal Credit five week wait

In the last five years, food bank use in our network has increased by 73%

https://www.trusselltrust.org/news-and- ... ear-stats/


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:40 am 
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Relative poverty and food banks.


A family of 4 on UK benefits alone are in the top 2% of the globes earners.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:51 am 
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Cost of living differences with the rest of the world not come into play Bimbo?


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:01 am 
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BokJock wrote:
Cost of living differences with the rest of the world not come into play Bimbo?



Top 2%. With no pay health care and free education for the children.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:10 am 
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Have they started playing Kiss and GNR outside Downing St yet?


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:12 am 
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bimboman wrote:
c69 wrote:
Not really a shock the Tories feck the country up again because of right wing ideological squabbles.
Useless bigotted twats, Party before country every time.



Record employment, wages in front of inflation and good growth. Record Health funding.

Sure they need to sort out the debt and cut some taxes but considering what the laughable twats from the left gave us in 2010 it’s a miracle....

The 1.8m on zero hours contracts might have something to say about that.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:12 am 
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bimboman wrote:
BokJock wrote:
Cost of living differences with the rest of the world not come into play Bimbo?



Top 2%. With no pay health care and free education for the children.



I can't really argue with that TBF - our hungry people are way better off than other countries hungry people.

f**king ingrates

EDIT: can you show your workings for how you get to that top 2% number - I didn't think I was in the top 2% and I have no need to scrounge off the government at all


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:38 am 
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bimboman wrote:
A hard brexiteer can save the Tories for future elections. Other wise why bother the May/Hammond version of the Lib Dem’s.... liberals with xenophobia isn’t appealing to anyone.

Mays record will be worst PM ever.


No doubt May talks xenophobically. Whilst Hammond is no Minford disciple, he's relatively dry.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:49 am 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
shereblue wrote:
May in lock down in the panic room at No. 10. Cameron in his garden shed.

Time for Remoaners and Brexitists to unite and take up their pitchforks



Why?


When your leaders daren't show their faces, it's time for a little "take back control" revolutionary spirit on the streets.
[Reality Check: this keyboard warrior dutifully traipsing along to his local polling station]


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:59 am 
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Be interesting to see if the Tories do survive. They are an incredibly resilient party because they are only in rare periods an idealogical party. Huge capacity to reinvent themsleves.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:04 am 
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Lord Denning wrote:
If you were Boris, Sajid, etc, would you actually want to take over now? The Tory party is ungovernable for the foreseeable future. And there's no majority for any agreement with the EU. Even if we have a second referendum it's probable that the leavers would win it (a while ago I asked a People's Vote campaigner about what they'd do if a further vote confirmed the first one and she said it wouldn't matter because it was the best way to show protest whatever the result!)

There's just no way for a Tory government to stagger on with a DUP crutch.

Surely a General Election is now inevitable, with the incredible - and terrifying - prospect of a Corbyn government.

Who would want to be the Tory PM who lost to the most useless party leader of the last three centuries?

I think a caretaker fall guy followed by a self-administered uppercut and some regrouping is the best the Tories can do now.

Roll on the power cuts, super tax, stand pipes, runaway inflation, Israeli boycott and shouty union convenors on the news every night...


I can't help feeling that Boris does not give a shit about leading or has any particular ideology or manifesto, he just wants to have his name up on the PM board in the clubhouse and be part of history.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:05 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:
Saint wrote:
Not just ungovernable, but unelectable. Maybe for a generation, maybe longer.

Whatever happens post Brexit, the Tories will take the blame (let's not kid ourselves, there's not going to be anything to take credit for)

Depends what direction they go. 70% plus of their voters are/were Leavers, they need to get those voters back asap.


Even if they only lose the 30% remainers (who are leaving ssap) then they're screwed. The Tory party needs both sides.

Not to mention those that simply have lost faith in their reputation for rational governance



The only thing that can save us is people don’t want Marxism.


I also don't want this shower of shit

And I definitely don't want an ideologue hard Brexiteer

I don't see the Tories surviving in Oxfordshire, Bucks, or Berks. They will lose enough seats that they simply can't be a potential viable government.

We are more likely to be saved from PM Corbyn simply because Labour are splitting themselves, albeit less spectacularly.

I think most realistically we're heading for a long period of centre/centre-left coalitions, as the stink from this will haunt the Tories for a long time


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:23 am 
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Saint wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:
Saint wrote:
Not just ungovernable, but unelectable. Maybe for a generation, maybe longer.

Whatever happens post Brexit, the Tories will take the blame (let's not kid ourselves, there's not going to be anything to take credit for)

Depends what direction they go. 70% plus of their voters are/were Leavers, they need to get those voters back asap.


Even if they only lose the 30% remainers (who are leaving ssap) then they're screwed. The Tory party needs both sides.

Not to mention those that simply have lost faith in their reputation for rational governance



The only thing that can save us is people don’t want Marxism.


I also don't want this shower of shit

And I definitely don't want an ideologue hard Brexiteer

I don't see the Tories surviving in Oxfordshire, Bucks, or Berks. They will lose enough seats that they simply can't be a potential viable government.

We are more likely to be saved from PM Corbyn simply because Labour are splitting themselves, albeit less spectacularly.

I think most realistically we're heading for a long period of centre/centre-left coalitions, as the stink from this will haunt the Tories for a long time




If The Brexit Party does as well as the polls suggest in the EU elections then get ready for them the stand in the next UK general election as well - and do equally as well. Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:35 am 
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Rugby2023 wrote:
Saint wrote:
Not just ungovernable, but unelectable. Maybe for a generation, maybe longer.

Whatever happens post Brexit, the Tories will take the blame (let's not kid ourselves, there's not going to be anything to take credit for)

Depends what direction they go. 70% plus of their voters are/were Leavers, they need to get those voters back asap.


You mean 70% of the members and the associations (aka the swivelled eyed loons) . That was May's biggest mistake as she went full UKIP in the Lancaster House speech and lost all of the middle ground. The Conservative party has traditionally been the pro-business centrist party but after that speech they became an authoritarian, anti-business right wing party.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/t ... yed-loons/


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:46 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Relative poverty and food banks.


A family of 4 on UK benefits alone are in the top 2% of the globes earners.

All that counts is relativity to stats in this country previously. That is the percentage increase so STFU about relativity to the rest of the fucking world


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:54 am 
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ForzaIt wrote:
If The Brexit Party does as well as the polls suggest in the EU elections then get ready for them the stand in the next UK general election as well - and do equally as well. Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.


Farage still won't be able to get himself into parliament let alone lots of other shitstains


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:56 am 
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ForzaIt wrote:
Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.


it seems as though the ‘unthinkable’ has been the only thing that has been happening these past three years.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:04 am 
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ForzaIt wrote:
Saint wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:
Depends what direction they go. 70% plus of their voters are/were Leavers, they need to get those voters back asap.


Even if they only lose the 30% remainers (who are leaving ssap) then they're screwed. The Tory party needs both sides.

Not to mention those that simply have lost faith in their reputation for rational governance



The only thing that can save us is people don’t want Marxism.


I also don't want this shower of shit

And I definitely don't want an ideologue hard Brexiteer

I don't see the Tories surviving in Oxfordshire, Bucks, or Berks. They will lose enough seats that they simply can't be a potential viable government.

We are more likely to be saved from PM Corbyn simply because Labour are splitting themselves, albeit less spectacularly.

I think most realistically we're heading for a long period of centre/centre-left coalitions, as the stink from this will haunt the Tories for a long time




If The Brexit Party does as well as the polls suggest in the EU elections then get ready for them the stand in the next UK general election as well - and do equally as well. Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.

I think the public does seem exceptionally disenchanted with Labour and Conservative. My 92 year old neighbour, as conservative a gent as they come, has voted Lib Dem this morning. Loves his grandchildren and great grandchild.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:12 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
If The Brexit Party does as well as the polls suggest in the EU elections then get ready for them the stand in the next UK general election as well - and do equally as well. Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.


Farage still won't be able to get himself into parliament let alone lots of other shitstains




And that is the sort of apathy that has allowed Farage to outmaneuver everyone over and over again. Politically, Farage is top level.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:16 am 
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ForzaIt wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
If The Brexit Party does as well as the polls suggest in the EU elections then get ready for them the stand in the next UK general election as well - and do equally as well. Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.


Farage still won't be able to get himself into parliament let alone lots of other shitstains




And that is the sort of apathy that has allowed Farage to outmaneuver everyone over and over again. Politically, Farage is top level.

So was Benito. For a period.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:19 am 
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shereblue wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
If The Brexit Party does as well as the polls suggest in the EU elections then get ready for them the stand in the next UK general election as well - and do equally as well. Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.


Farage still won't be able to get himself into parliament let alone lots of other shitstains




And that is the sort of apathy that has allowed Farage to outmaneuver everyone over and over again. Politically, Farage is top level.

So was Benito. For a period.




There are far more checks and balances now than there were then. I don't look at people like Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair and Owen Jones and think - that's the side of the argument I should be on.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:35 am 
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ForzaIt wrote:
shereblue wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
If The Brexit Party does as well as the polls suggest in the EU elections then get ready for them the stand in the next UK general election as well - and do equally as well. Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.


Farage still won't be able to get himself into parliament let alone lots of other shitstains




And that is the sort of apathy that has allowed Farage to outmaneuver everyone over and over again. Politically, Farage is top level.

So was Benito. For a period.




There are far more checks and balances now than there were then. I don't look at people like Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair and Owen Jones and think - that's the side of the argument I should be on.

You look at the personalities. I look at the arguments.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:49 am 
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shereblue wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:

There are far more checks and balances now than there were then. I don't look at people like Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair and Owen Jones and think - that's the side of the argument I should be on.

You look at the personalities. I look at the arguments.




Oh I'm sorry, I thought you incongruously mentioned Mussolini? It must have been someone else.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:00 pm 
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ForzaIt wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
If The Brexit Party does as well as the polls suggest in the EU elections then get ready for them the stand in the next UK general election as well - and do equally as well. Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.


Farage still won't be able to get himself into parliament let alone lots of other shitstains




And that is the sort of apathy that has allowed Farage to outmaneuver everyone over and over again. Politically, Farage is top level.

Apathy :lol: :lol: :lol:

He hasn't outmanoeuvred everyone over and over again. He has stood for parliament over and over and over and over and over and over again and been outmanoeuvred over and over and over and over and over and over again. MEP is not MP. I hope he does stand again in a UK general election

FFS


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
If The Brexit Party does as well as the polls suggest in the EU elections then get ready for them the stand in the next UK general election as well - and do equally as well. Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.


Farage still won't be able to get himself into parliament let alone lots of other shitstains




And that is the sort of apathy that has allowed Farage to outmaneuver everyone over and over again. Politically, Farage is top level.

Apathy :lol: :lol: :lol:

He hasn't outmanoeuvred everyone over and over again. He has stood for parliament over and over and over and over and over and over again and been outmanoeuvred over and over and over and over and over and over again. MEP is not MP. I hope he does stand again in a UK general election

FFS




He is a one-issue politician that in just 20-years forced a referendum on EU membership. And then won it! The odds against him were/are astronomical. I am not a Farage fan or apologist but you have to admire his skill.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
If The Brexit Party does as well as the polls suggest in the EU elections then get ready for them the stand in the next UK general election as well - and do equally as well. Farage has got real momentum behind him - the unthinkable is very much a possibility.


Farage still won't be able to get himself into parliament let alone lots of other shitstains




And that is the sort of apathy that has allowed Farage to outmaneuver everyone over and over again. Politically, Farage is top level.

Apathy :lol: :lol: :lol:

He hasn't outmanoeuvred everyone over and over again. He has stood for parliament over and over and over and over and over and over again and been outmanoeuvred over and over and over and over and over and over again. MEP is not MP. I hope he does stand again in a UK general election

FFS


If brexit party do well today, and a GE occurs soon, then he could easily get into parliament


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:14 pm 
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ForzaIt wrote:
shereblue wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:

There are far more checks and balances now than there were then. I don't look at people like Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair and Owen Jones and think - that's the side of the argument I should be on.

You look at the personalities. I look at the arguments.




Oh I'm sorry, I thought you incongruously mentioned Mussolini? It must have been someone else.



Well, well. Didn't think I was commenting on Mussolini's personality at all. Perhaps twisting points and deflection is cute politically?

As you seek to raise personality, I think Benito had some genuinely attractive traits that I have never discerned in Hitler or Franco.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:21 pm 
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shereblue wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:
shereblue wrote:
ForzaIt wrote:

There are far more checks and balances now than there were then. I don't look at people like Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair and Owen Jones and think - that's the side of the argument I should be on.

You look at the personalities. I look at the arguments.




Oh I'm sorry, I thought you incongruously mentioned Mussolini? It must have been someone else.



Well, well. Didn't think I was commenting on Mussolini's personality at all. Perhaps twisting points and deflection is cute politically?

As you seek to raise personality, I think Benito had some genuinely attractive traits that I have never discerned in Hitler or Franco.




Mussolini had a better milliner than Hitler and Franco but beyond that, I can't see any redeeming qualities.


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