Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:07 am
Propaganda in full swing...
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The Hong Kong protest movement has very little to no support in mainland China. My wechat moments are blowing up on a daily basis now with Chinese nationalism and condemnation of the ‘rioters’ and ‘foreign interference’ in Hong Kong’s affairs. I don’t talk about politics too much with Chinese people over here because it’s an obvious minefield but there isn’t a lot of empathy generally between mainland Chinese and Hong Kongers. This is even true for mainland Chinese who have lived, worked and studied overseas and enjoyed the benefits of of western liberal institutions, rule of law, separation of powers etc etc.Flockwitt wrote:Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.
Yeah, Chinese hate the Chinese. Malaysian, Taiwanese, HK, Philippine, Indo, Australian Chinese all hate mainland Chinese. The reverse holds true also.naki111 wrote:The Hong Kong protest movement has very little to no support in mainland China. My wechat moments are blowing up on a daily basis now with Chinese nationalism and condemnation of the ‘rioters’ and ‘foreign interference’ in Hong Kong’s affairs. I don’t talk about politics too much with Chinese people over here because it’s an obvious minefield but there isn’t a lot of empathy generally between mainland Chinese and Hong Kongers. This is even true for mainland Chinese who have lived, worked and studied overseas and enjoyed the benefits of of western liberal institutions, rule of law, separation of powers etc etc.Flockwitt wrote:Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.
I saw earlier in the thread your prediction that the PRC would try to invade Taiwan within five years. Could you expand on your reasons for that timeframe?Sensible Stephen wrote:Yeah, Chinese hate the Chinese. Malaysian, Taiwanese, HK, Philippine, Indo, Australian Chinese all hate mainland Chinese. The reverse holds true also.naki111 wrote:The Hong Kong protest movement has very little to no support in mainland China. My wechat moments are blowing up on a daily basis now with Chinese nationalism and condemnation of the ‘rioters’ and ‘foreign interference’ in Hong Kong’s affairs. I don’t talk about politics too much with Chinese people over here because it’s an obvious minefield but there isn’t a lot of empathy generally between mainland Chinese and Hong Kongers. This is even true for mainland Chinese who have lived, worked and studied overseas and enjoyed the benefits of of western liberal institutions, rule of law, separation of powers etc etc.Flockwitt wrote:Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.
Xi has said he is losing patience with Taiwan. He will want to unite the two countries before July 2021 to mark the 100th anniversary of the founding of the CCP. If he is successful in HK, then I don't see why he won't use misinformation and other methods to undermine Taiwan.naki111 wrote:
I saw earlier in the thread your prediction that the PRC would try to invade Taiwan within five years. Could you expand on your reasons for that timeframe?
2, 1Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Loora88888? Whats she got to do with any of this??Taranaki Snapper wrote:
DamnTaranaki Snapper wrote:
Glaston wrote:I was going to mention reports of troop movements into Hong Kong.
"supposedly routine troop movements"
it's a bit of both - regular troop movement plus media playing up the fact that it's happeningwamberal99 wrote:Glaston wrote:I was going to mention reports of troop movements into Hong Kong.
"supposedly routine troop movements"
Nothing is routine in the PRC, or in HKG either.
I have a few friends with dual residency - they are looking at selling up and packing it in.village wrote:Several pro-democracy leaders were arrested this morning ahead of what might be another weekend of violence. The protest march organised for Saturday had been banned by police and the organisers were beaten up yesterday by auxiliary police officers (or Triads as they are commonly known). There's a general strike on monday. The recording made by the girl whose eye was blown out by a police bean-bag round is everywhere on social media and yesterday the protestors screened a documentary on the Ukraine maidan in a dozen locations around the city. It's a rather worrying parallel they wish to draw. Clearly there is an element of the hardcore pro-dems who want to make this as a revolution. I'm afraid I really don't see this all ending without something rather bloody taking place.
Indeed, my wife is Cantonese, and like the Vietnamese, are lovely until backed into a corner, then all hell is unleashed.wamberal99 wrote:There's a story in today's Sydney Morning Herald that features interviews with schoolkids as young as 15 who joined the protests.
Hearts and minds. It looks as though that idiot Lam is well on the way to radicalising a generation. One thing about Hong Kong people, they are really tough when they want to be.
Hope so. A few hardcore protesters without the numbers of the more peaceful protesters won't last long.village wrote:HK Govt have pledged to formally withdraw the extradition bill which caused all the fuss and mass marches.
That's just 1 of 5 demands the hardcore protesters have though and early indication is they won't back down yet.
I'm sure a large number of sunday peaceful marchers will be satisfied with it though (although a swath of the public feel there should also be an independent investigation into the behaviour of the police over the past 3 months but that's not going to happen).
Not quite sure why Carrie Lam did this now and not before. Obviously its because she felt the jerk on her puppet string but its less clear why Beijing did it.
Are the HK cops not Hkers?village wrote:Trouble is the humble pie price might have gone up. What the public would have accepted in June (Bill withdrawal) may not be enough after 3 months of police acting like thugs. The rumour that they beat a man to death last Saturday in Prince Edward MTR & covered it up is still all over social media here. It may well be bollocks but people are ready to believe anything of HK cops these days. Hence the demand for a public inquiry, but I don't expect they'll get it.
Hong Kong Police ‘Tortured’ and Beat Protesters, Amnesty Says
The new report alleges litany of abuses during recent unrest
Details of beatings could fuel more pro-democracy protestsBy Iain Marlow
(Bloomberg) -- Hong Kong police beat pro-democracy protesters in custody and committed acts that amount to “torture” during recent demonstrations, Amnesty International alleged in a new report that could fuel further unrest.
Police used “unnecessary and excessive force” in making arrests, beat a protester for declining to answer a question and then pinned him to the floor, shined laser pens in the eyes of people who had been detained, and threatened to electrocute a man’s genitals after he refused to unlock his phone, the human rights group said.
Amnesty said it released its findings after an investigation that included interviews with 21 arrested protesters, corroborating interviews with health care workers who treated demonstrators, and lawyers representing people who had been detained. Out of 21 protesters interviewed, 18 were hospitalized for injuries or illnesses related to their arrest and detention, the group said, adding that it also reviewed medical records.
The Hong Kong Police said it would not comment on individual cases. In a statement released to Bloomberg News, it said police officers would give warning of their intention to use force when circumstances allowed. Officers are required to use a “high level of restraint at all times,” it said.
The rights group said it shared its findings with the Hong Kong Commissioner of Police on Sept. 18, but had not yet received a response. Contacted on Thursday, police didn’t have an immediate comment.
The group, which also shared its research with several members of the city’s Legislative Council, said it was publicizing its findings anyway given the “gravity of the abuses,” escalating violence on both sides and the possibility the “situation could deteriorate further in the coming weeks” ahead of protests planned to coincide with the Oct. 1 anniversary of 70 years of Communist rule in China.
Police have previously defended their tactics as necessary against radical protesters who have thrown bricks and petrol bombs at riot police over the course of often-violent demonstrations that have included the vandalizing of subway stops and the setting ablaze of street barricades.
Chief Executive Carrie Lam this week defended her government and police from allegations of improper behavior, saying the administration condemns all violence and all judicial proceedings were conducted in an “impartial manner.”
Further protests are expected this weekend, including another so-called “stress test” of the international airport’s transportation network.
“The evidence leaves little room for doubt – in an apparent thirst for retaliation, Hong Kong’s security forces have engaged in a disturbing pattern of reckless and unlawful tactics against people during the protests,” Nicholas Bequelin, its East Asia director, said in a statement. “This has included arbitrary arrests and retaliatory violence against arrested persons in custody, some of which has amounted to torture.”
The Amnesty report also alleges that:
In several cases, protesters were “severely beaten in custody and suffered other ill-treatment amounting to torture.” Many required hospitalization.
Some violence appears to have been “meted out as ‘punishment’ for talking back or appearing uncooperative.” Some arrested demonstrators were zip-tied and had their gas masks removed, and forced to sit in areas where tear gas was repeatedly being fired. One person was taken to a separate room by officers after refusing to answer a question, beaten, and then held to the ground by an officer’s knee. He was later hospitalized with a bone fracture and internal bleeding. Several detained protesters had laser pointers shined directly into their eyes -- after people shined laser pens at officers during protests. Officers hit demonstrators with batons or fists while making arrests, “even when they were not resisting” or were already restrained. One was hospitalized with a fractured rib.
Tried to belt him with a metal bar apparentlySensible Stephen wrote:So the cops shot a guy yesterday.
18 year old secondary school student. Part of a group of rioters who set upon an isolated cop in the side streets of Tuen Muen. Other cops came running in (guns already drawn) and one fired twice, point blank, into the kid's chest.Farva wrote:Tried to belt him with a metal bar apparentlySensible Stephen wrote:So the cops shot a guy yesterday.
I am no fan of mainland China but HK reverts to them in only 28 years. Is this a hill worth dying for?village wrote:There are plenty of local HKers I know who are supportive of the police and not so fond of the protesters, so fair to say the whole movement is as socially divisive as Brexit in the UK seems to be getting.Farva wrote:Tried to belt him with a metal bar apparentlySensible Stephen wrote:So the cops shot a guy yesterday.
Yeah, I don't see what more protesting is going to achieve now.Macrosan wrote:I am no fan of mainland China but HK reverts to them in only 28 years. Is this a hill worth dying for?village wrote:There are plenty of local HKers I know who are supportive of the police and not so fond of the protesters, so fair to say the whole movement is as socially divisive as Brexit in the UK seems to be getting.Farva wrote:Tried to belt him with a metal bar apparentlySensible Stephen wrote:So the cops shot a guy yesterday.