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He will stay.mdaclarke wrote:Do you guys think that PSDT will stay or not? My guess is that he will sign a year extension and then leave after the Lions tour.
Poaching Cvnts!CAPE TOWN – Springbok fullback Warrick Gelant will be turning out in the blue and white of Western Province and the Stormers when rugby eventually returns.
The news of Gelant leaving Pretoria for Cape Town was confirmed by both Western Province and the Bulls on Wednesday. In Cape Town, Gelant will join a backline that includes other exciting talents such as Herschel Jantjies, Damian Willemse, Seabelo Senatla and Sergeal Petersen.
The union has recently lost the services of Dillyn Leyds, so the signing of Gelant will be a welcomed one.
"Warrick has established himself as one of the most dynamic backline players in South Africa, so we could not be more thrilled to have him on our books going forward,” said Stormers coach John Dobson.
"With Dillyn Leyds leaving, we couldn't have asked for anyone better to step into the 15 jersey. I am sure his presence will also have a hugely positive influence on the players around him.
Is this not a similar issue that Frans Steyn had with his issues with SA Rugby?The curious case of Pieter-Steph du Toit and whether he will stay at Western Province Rugby hasn’t been finalised officially. This despite the fact that the 21-day window for players to cancel existing contracts at their clubs in South Africa and take up other offers at an overseas club expired last Friday morning.
A Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) agreed by the rugby industry relating to pay cuts across the board to help mitigate the effects of the Covid-19 pandemic, built in a small window for those that were unhappy with losing income to seek alternative employment.
Overall South Africa’s 717 registered professional players, through salary reductions, will contribute 13% of R1.2-billion the rugby industry is trying to slash off its books because of suspended tournaments, tours and competitions due to coronavirus.
Du Toit, the current World Player of the Year, terminated his contract hours before the transfer deadline last Thursday. His agent Gerrie Swart told Daily Maverick that Du Toit would remain at WP, and that the cancellation of the existing contract was a formality because WP were set to issue him with a new contract, with new terms.
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The desired new terms appear to be over separating Du Toit’s image rights, which he wants unbundled, from a collective rights agreement. How this could be done is unclear because South Africa’s players are all subject to a collective image rights agreement, held by MyPlayers. The trade union receives R90-million annually from SA Rugby for those image rights, R30-million of which goes to insurance while the other R60-million is paid to players. If Du Toit’s rights are unbundled, it would set a precedent that other players might try to follow.
The Du Toit camp’s plan is to allow the big flank to represent individual companies to use his image rights to supplement his income. For that to happen WP needed to issue Du Toit a new contract. On deadline day, the union apparently offered an addendum to his existing contract, which was not acceptable to Du Toit’s representatives. As a result, he terminated his contract. Technically, without a formal offer from a foreign club, that was not allowed.
That raises some issues of its own. Under the rules of the CBA, no new contracts were allowed to be negotiated in local rugby. Secondly, existing contracts were not allowed to be renegotiated and thirdly, only those with offers from foreign clubs could terminate their existing contracts.
Sources have told Daily Maverick that Du Toit’s decision to seek better contractual terms has also upset his Stormers teammates, who are all taking pay cuts.
Du Toit’s intentions might genuinely be coming from a place of perceived loyalty – that he wants to stay in South Africa and play in Cape Town, until after the 2021 British & Irish Lions tour. What has happened though, is that he appears greedy at a time when others are losing income.
It has been widely reported that Du Toit had several lucrative offers from French clubs, although that has not been corroborated by the player or his agent. If Du Toit had an offer in the 21-day window, very few would have criticised him for taking it. The World Player of the Year, who has given so much to the Stormers and the Springboks, would be waved off with best wishes by everybody. Now he comes across as putting himself above the collective at a difficult time.
On another level though, this also appears to be some bad business by WP Rugby. The club is currently without a chief executive and there appears to be a real leadership vacuum. There is no official director of rugby either, leaving players without a chain of command to turn to when it comes to their contracts.
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Stormers coach John Dobson’s mandate should not extend to contract talks with the players. He might have input and use his relationship to influence or advise players, but when it comes to the nitty gritty of contract negotiations that should be done by the director of rugby, CEO and player agents.
WP issued a statement on Saturday acknowledging that Du Toit, as well as flank Cobus Wiese and flyhalf Jean-Luc du Plessis had terminated their contracts. In the statement the union said: “The existing contracts between the players and the Company are considered as binding and WP Rugby has reserved the right to hold players to these contracts or exercise other rights that may be held.”
This is unusual as it either suggests that Wiese and Du Plessis somehow breached the terms of the CBA by terminating without other offers. Or WP are refusing to accept the players’ resignations and issue them with clearances. If that is the case, then WP is in breach of the collective position.
It appears to be the latter position. Another source revealed to Daily Maverick that the situation has now reached the point where: “it is the industry versus WP because they cannot pick and choose which clauses of the CBA they want to follow. There is going to be a big fight.”
WP Rugby, the professional arm of the union, holds players’ contracts. The Western Province Rugby Football Union (WPRFU), which wholly owns the company, signed the CBA. Daily Maverick understands that a loophole through which WP Rugby are trying to block these moves is that the company did not sign the CBA. That stance is likely to be tested in the coming days.
Under the CBA, players earning under R240,000 per annum won’t suffer any pay cuts, but those at the top end of the spectrum – earning over R2 million a year – will effectively lose 25% of their salary after pension fund relief is factored in.
For most players, there was an understanding that with all competitions suspended, funds in rugby will dry up. Broadcast and sponsorship rights are paid in return for matches and competitions being played. Currently that isn’t happening. While most sponsors are sticking with the clubs for now, there will come a time when they have to rethink their contributions when they are receiving no ‘product’ in return.
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As a pre-emptive strike SA Rugby along with all its stakeholders delivered a detailed pay reduction model that went through all its partners, which included all the unions and MyPlayers.
A vital concession was that a 21-day window be inserted into the CBA allowing players the opportunity to seek alternative employment. There were two provisos – they could not transfer between clubs in South Africa. They could only terminate their existing contracts by moving to a foreign club.
The second was that if they were unhappy and wanted to terminate their contracts without an offer from a foreign club, they could do so, but would have to sit out playing rugby for the duration of the CBA, which ends on 31 December, 2020.
The choice was simple – stay and take a pay cut, go overseas if you could find someone to hire you, or sit out of rugby for the next six months without pay and pursue another career.
It might sound harsh but under the circumstances it was reasonable considering the unprecedented global situation. Most players accepted it and inevitably some sought a way out.
So far only one super star has moved – Lions hooker Malcolm Marx – who has taken up an offer in Japan. Several other Lions players such as Tyrone Green and Ruan Steenkamp also jumped ship. Two WP Boks – Dillyn Leyds and Wilco Louw – also took up overseas offers. In total there were only 14 transfers out while eight players came in from overseas.
South African rugby only lost one per cent of its players in the transfer window although the immediate future of Pieter-Steph du Toit – the second biggest name in the local game after Bok captain Siya Kolisi – remains as clear as mud. DM
:slowly reaches for pitchfork:Chilli wrote:
Is this not a similar issue that Frans Steyn had with his issues with SA Rugby?
assfly wrote::slowly reaches for pitchfork:Chilli wrote:
Is this not a similar issue that Frans Steyn had with his issues with SA Rugby?
Chilli wrote:assfly wrote::slowly reaches for pitchfork:Chilli wrote:
Is this not a similar issue that Frans Steyn had with his issues with SA Rugby?
hey, from the DM article it sounds like he is looking after himself to the detriment of all the other players and the Union.Sards wrote:Chilli wrote:assfly wrote::slowly reaches for pitchfork:Chilli wrote:
Is this not a similar issue that Frans Steyn had with his issues with SA Rugby?
Oh but you know that this is different...he is not a money grabber like Frans Steyn was....
Massive boost for Stormers as Pieter-Steph opts to stay in the Cape
2020-05-21 10:25
The franchise confirmed the news on their official website on Thursday.
The 2019 World Rugby Player of the Year last week exercised his option to exit his existing contract with Western Province while there were other lucrative offers from France and Japan, but it was understood at the time that his intention was to enter into a new agreement with the union.
Negotiations between the parties have been ongoing since then and Du Toit's future was not certain until the announcement on Thursday.
According to a statement from the Stormers, Du Toit has now withdrawn his contract termination notification.
He will now stay with the Stormers until at least the end of the 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to South Africa.
Board member Andre van der Veen said that while there was a lot of hard work put in to reach this conclusion, it was satisfying to announce a resolution which suits all parties involved.
"Pieter-Steph wanted to stay at Western Province Rugby, he is a true team man, who is integral to our plans at Western Province Rugby. We committed to find an equitable solution for him and the entire team and we are pleased to be able to officially confirm it," he said.
Stormers coach John Dobson said that keeping experienced world class players like Du Toit and the other seven World Cup winners in the squad, is a crucial element in the vision of rewarding the rugby community in the Cape with a team they can be proud of.
"Pieter-Steph is an important team member, his extraordinary work-rate coupled with his ball carrying skills, makes our forward pack even more formidable," he said.
"The rehabilitation on his injury is progressing well and we are looking forward to seeing him in a Stormers jersey again when we get back on the field.
"Not only is this good for the Stormers and Western Province Rugby, but it is also good for South African rugby that we have kept such prominent players in the country, looking ahead at the post-pandemic rugby offering and market.
"We are proud as a union of our achievement of contracting eight Rugby World Cup winning Springboks in the province and keeping them in the country."
What a team! We only need to get Damian Willemse to not play for himself, but for the team.OomPB wrote:Gelant, Sergeal, Nel, DdP, Senatla, Gacca, Jantjies, Trokkie, Kolisi, PSdT, JD, Moerat, Malherbe, Bongi, Kitshoff
I see tries a plenty.
Has Willemse left?OomPB wrote:Gelant, Sergeal, Nel, DdP, Senatla, Gacca, Jantjies, Trokkie, Kolisi, PSdT, JD, Moerat, Malherbe, Bongi, Kitshoff
I see tries a plenty.
Chilli wrote:Has Willemse left?OomPB wrote:Gelant, Sergeal, Nel, DdP, Senatla, Gacca, Jantjies, Trokkie, Kolisi, PSdT, JD, Moerat, Malherbe, Bongi, Kitshoff
I see tries a plenty.
Fukken Hell.......................can he be given a name and just stick to it?FuseBox wrote:Chilli wrote:Has Willemse left?OomPB wrote:Gelant, Sergeal, Nel, DdP, Senatla, Gacca, Jantjies, Trokkie, Kolisi, PSdT, JD, Moerat, Malherbe, Bongi, Kitshoff
I see tries a plenty.
Should say Gazza... his nickname.
WunderkindChilli wrote:Fukken Hell.......................can he be given a name and just stick to it?FuseBox wrote:Chilli wrote:Has Willemse left?OomPB wrote:Gelant, Sergeal, Nel, DdP, Senatla, Gacca, Jantjies, Trokkie, Kolisi, PSdT, JD, Moerat, Malherbe, Bongi, Kitshoff
I see tries a plenty.
Should say Gazza... his nickname.
Chilli wrote:Fukken Hell.......................can he be given a name and just stick to it?FuseBox wrote:Chilli wrote:Has Willemse left?OomPB wrote:Gelant, Sergeal, Nel, DdP, Senatla, Gacca, Jantjies, Trokkie, Kolisi, PSdT, JD, Moerat, Malherbe, Bongi, Kitshoff
I see tries a plenty.
Should say Gazza... his nickname.
Who is Gazza then?FuseBox wrote:Chilli wrote:Fukken Hell.......................can he be given a name and just stick to it?FuseBox wrote:Chilli wrote:Has Willemse left?OomPB wrote:Gelant, Sergeal, Nel, DdP, Senatla, Gacca, Jantjies, Trokkie, Kolisi, PSdT, JD, Moerat, Malherbe, Bongi, Kitshoff
I see tries a plenty.
Should say Gazza... his nickname.
He has and its Gaza.
Pieter-Steph du Toit, who over the last two weeks has been the subject of one of the biggest transfer stories in South African rugby history, will take a pay cut at the Stormers.
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The 2019 World Rugby Player of the Year last Thursday exited his contract with Western Province during a 21-day window that gave players the freedom to do so, but since then he has withdrawn his contract termination and he will remain a Stormer until at least the end of the 2021 British & irish Lions tour.
While the specifics of Du Toit's new arrangement are not public knowledge at this stage, coach John Dobson confirmed on the Stormers website on Thursday that Du Toit, like everybody else, would be taking a pay cut.
"Pieter-Steph was always going to be a more complex case because of the fact he is the World Rugby Player of the Year and the interest in him," Dobson said.
"He has bought into the collective bargaining agreement and like the other players has taken the same pay cut and wants to be part of our future here. I think that is credit to him because I think the pressure would have been substantial.
"The one thing about him is that it doesn’t matter what the game is or who he is playing for, the way he works on the field, his physicality and gives 100% is incredible.
"He has had a serious injury and is busy with his rehab, but now that we have got clarity that really needs to be accelerated. We are hoping that he will be available when we get back on the field."
Dobson also praised the work of the Western Province board and president Zelt Marais in holding onto Du Toit and their other big-name players.
"It was obviously great for us to keep the rest of the squad, a lot of credit must go to those big-name players who were in demand and who were loyal from the start of the 21-day period," he said.
"The support from the board and the shareholder in keeping Pieter-Steph and this amazing squad together has been absolutely incredible. We don’t have billionaire equity partners, we are owned by our clubs, which are going through enormous stress themselves.
"So the support of our shareholder (WPRFU) which is owned by the clubs, allowed us to do this.
"We must give a lot of credit to Zelt Marais the president and his executive for supporting us. It is great for the region and we are very grateful for that."
- Compiled by Sport24 staff
Have you seen their wine/olive estate near Riebeek Kasteel? I don't think money is a big concern for the fellaassfly wrote:So not only does he turn down an incredible financial offer, but he accepts a pay cut? Bloody hell.
Perhaps, but everyone is getting hammered at the moment and nobody is immune.Big Nipper wrote:Have you seen their wine/olive estate near Riebeek Kasteel? I don't think money is a big concern for the fella
I think he will go after the Lions tour. Best of both worlds, seen as a SA hero and then go and get the big paydayassfly wrote:So not only does he turn down an incredible financial offer, but he accepts a pay cut? Bloody hell.
As a rugby player he is only 1 injury away from being out of a job. Me, I would have taken the French offermdaclarke wrote:I think he will go after the Lions tour. Best of both worlds, seen as a SA hero and then go and get the big paydayassfly wrote:So not only does he turn down an incredible financial offer, but he accepts a pay cut? Bloody hell.
Insanity. Clearly there is another reason he is staying. Personal reasons.assfly wrote:So not only does he turn down an incredible financial offer, but he accepts a pay cut? Bloody hell.
Never change.Sards wrote:One thing is absolutely clear to me. It's not about the players and claiming them as your own anymore. Its about the franchise. If the franchise is healthy and attractive to investors well then you can buy any player that you want. And no player is loyal to a union . They are all one signature away from playing for another union. At the moment if I were a professional player I would not touch the Stormers with a barge pole unless you are desperate enough to go that route to further your career and get exposure. Which leads me to believe that PSDT had a reason and it has nothing to do with rugby . All he is doing is buying into a location. Not a career.
yes buying into SA Covid-19 hot spot. Make sense.Chilli wrote:Never change.Sards wrote:One thing is absolutely clear to me. It's not about the players and claiming them as your own anymore. Its about the franchise. If the franchise is healthy and attractive to investors well then you can buy any player that you want. And no player is loyal to a union . They are all one signature away from playing for another union. At the moment if I were a professional player I would not touch the Stormers with a barge pole unless you are desperate enough to go that route to further your career and get exposure. Which leads me to believe that PSDT had a reason and it has nothing to do with rugby . All he is doing is buying into a location. Not a career.
Yes. Weren’t some trolls equating him to Frans Steyn earlier??assfly wrote:So not only does he turn down an incredible financial offer, but he accepts a pay cut? Bloody hell.
No.saffer13 wrote:Yes. Weren’t some trolls equating him to Frans Steyn earlier??assfly wrote:So not only does he turn down an incredible financial offer, but he accepts a pay cut? Bloody hell.
Someone called PSDT fat?saffer13 wrote:Yes. Weren’t some trolls equating him to Frans Steyn earlier??assfly wrote:So not only does he turn down an incredible financial offer, but he accepts a pay cut? Bloody hell.
Thought someone said said he was only after the money...Sandstorm wrote:Someone called PSDT fat?saffer13 wrote:Yes. Weren’t some trolls equating him to Frans Steyn earlier??assfly wrote:So not only does he turn down an incredible financial offer, but he accepts a pay cut? Bloody hell.
No. It was about the image rights.saffer13 wrote:Thought someone said said he was only after the money...Sandstorm wrote:Someone called PSDT fat?saffer13 wrote:Yes. Weren’t some trolls equating him to Frans Steyn earlier??assfly wrote:So not only does he turn down an incredible financial offer, but he accepts a pay cut? Bloody hell.
So Wunderkind to 15 then?Former Sharks, Western Province and Harlequins flyhalf Tim Swiel is set for a return to South Africa, Stormers coach John Dobson has confirmed.
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Swiel, an SA Schools players back in 2011, has been based in England since 2014 where he has had stinted with Harlequins and, more recently, Newcastle Falcons.
He is currently in the Western Cape, though, and is understood to be eyeing a return to professional rugby with Western Province and the Stormers.
Swiel played under Dobson for the WP under-21 side in 2012 and 2013 before moving to Durban to join the Sharks for the 2013 Currie Cup.
"Tim Swiel, who you might remember played for the Sharks and Western Province, for personal reasons has come back to South Africa and will join us via the club system," Dobson said on Monday.
"Abner (Van Reenen) is also very much part of the group. He is a guy who will be under consideration - when we finish the contracting process - to stay on for next year.
"We haven't finalised that yet, but he is a good player. That gives us a fair amount of depth in the position (flyhalf)."
- Compiled by Sport24 staff
The Stormers have confirmed the departure of three of promising youngsters.
As was reported earlier in the week, 22-year-old hooker Schalk Erasmus will join the Bulls in June on a three-year deal.
Utility back David Kriel will also join the Bulls. The 21-year-old, who can play fullback and centre, stands 1.94m and weighs 94kg.
The Cape franchise also confirmed that hooker Dan Jooste, 22, will join the Sharks when his contract expires in at the end of October. The 22-year-old former Junior Springbok played one Super Rugby match for the Stormers against the Lions in 2019.
Tim Swiel? you must be joking. Havent heard about him since his school days. Any backup will be a positive on the Prince and Phillips.Chilli wrote:So Wunderkind to 15 then?Former Sharks, Western Province and Harlequins flyhalf Tim Swiel is set for a return to South Africa, Stormers coach John Dobson has confirmed.
Register your interest for the British & Irish Lions tickets in South Africa 2021
Swiel, an SA Schools players back in 2011, has been based in England since 2014 where he has had stinted with Harlequins and, more recently, Newcastle Falcons.
He is currently in the Western Cape, though, and is understood to be eyeing a return to professional rugby with Western Province and the Stormers.
Swiel played under Dobson for the WP under-21 side in 2012 and 2013 before moving to Durban to join the Sharks for the 2013 Currie Cup.
"Tim Swiel, who you might remember played for the Sharks and Western Province, for personal reasons has come back to South Africa and will join us via the club system," Dobson said on Monday.
"Abner (Van Reenen) is also very much part of the group. He is a guy who will be under consideration - when we finish the contracting process - to stay on for next year.
"We haven't finalised that yet, but he is a good player. That gives us a fair amount of depth in the position (flyhalf)."
- Compiled by Sport24 staff