Planet Rugby Forum

Courtesy of Carfer

Where:
Tokyo, Japan









Venue:
Tokyo Stadium, Tokyo │ Capacity: 45,000





Who:



TBC

Replacements:

TBC







TBC

Replacements:

TBC



History:



Played: 51

France: 36
Argentina: 14
Draw: 1

Last matches:

17 Nov 2018 | November Internationals | France 28 - 13 Argentina
25 Jun 2016 | June Internationals | Argentina 0 - 27 France
19 Jun 2016 | June Internationals | Argentina 30 - 19 France
22 Nov 2014 | November Internationals | France 13 - 18 Argentina
17 Nov 2012 | November Internationals | France 39 - 22 Argentina
23 Jun 2012 | Winter Tours | Argentina 10 - 49 France
16 Jun 2012 | Winter Tours | Argentina 23 - 20 France
20 Nov 2010 | End of Year Tours | France 15 - 9 Argentina
26 Jun 2010 | Winter Tours | Argentina 41 - 13 France
19 Oct 2007 | IRB Rugby World Cup | France 10 - 34 Argentina
07 Sep 2007 | IRB Rugby World Cup | France 12 - 17 Argentina

When:

Date : Saturday 21 Sep

Kick Off :

Sat 09:15 Paris, France
Sat 07:45 GMT
Sat 04:15 Buenos Aires, Argentina

Match Officials:

Referee - Angus Gardner (Australia)



Assistant Referee 1 - Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant Referee 2 - Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)

TMO - Marius Jonker (South Africa)

Tokyo - Weather Forecast :







Original shitty OP....

Unofficial team unannounced for France:

Le XV de départ : 15. Médard ; 14. Penaud, 13. Vakatawa, 12. Fickou, 11. Huget ; 10. Ntamack, 9. Dupont ; 7. Ollivon, 8. Alldritt, 6. Lauret ; 5. Vahaamahina, 4. Iturria ; 3. Slimani, 2. Guirado (cap.), 1. Poirot.

Les remplaçants : 16. Chat, 17. Baille, 18. Bamba, 19. Le Roux, 20. Picamoles, 21. Serin, 22. Lopez, 23. Ramos.

Unofficial team unannounced for Argentina:

Boffelli - Moroni, De la Fuente, Orlando, Moyano - (o) Sanchez, (m) Cubelli - Kremer, Ortega Desio, Matera (cap.) - Lavanini, Petti - Figallo, Creevy, Chaparro.

So basically the Jaguares taking on France. That will give us an idea of the level of Super Rugby... Or the abysmal level of French rugby?

Another great game for the 1st weekend.

I really rate England so for me the loser of this game is in real trouble. Overall I’ve been picking France to come second in this pool - but to the point above the continuity of the Arg team for the first game could pay dividends.

France by 1-3.

Argentina, although deceptively ranked 11th in the World, are used to play higher tempo rugby than France, and come into this world cup much improved over the years. The Jaguares backbone, with their achievements this year, will give them an important advantage over France. France, on the other hand, have gone from bad to worse over the last year and are now struggling to beat Scotland at home, and generally lose away to them.

You're right that the loser of this game is in big trouble and will be unlikely to qualify. But I fear this will be France.

Argentina by 10

How many Jaguares in the first XV?

Argentina by 5.
Their ranking is low because they have been playing the other 3 rwc semifinalists. No easy games like in the 6 nations.

ZuLu wrote:How many Jaguares in the first XV?

From this past season, everyone but Figallo and Sanchez. Matera and Lavanini are joining overseas clubs after the RWC.

ZuLu wrote:How many Jaguares in the first XV?

It's the same team that faced Crusaders in the SR final, with two exceptions:
- Figallo enters through Medrano, which is thrown to the bench
- Sanchez replaces Diaz Bonilla

Now we will know I suppose. Practically a full strength super Rugby side against a genuine tier 1 international side.

This one is a must win for the Argies.

sonic_attack wrote:Now we will know I suppose. Practically a full strength super Rugby side against a genuine tier 1 international side.

This one is a must win for the Argies.

France is tier 2 really. Sits with Scotland and Italy at the bottom of the 6N rankings.

So we have a very well drilled formation that has played together for the past 4 years at the highest International level against a completely experimental side of individual talents used to play second tier rugby - and often losing while doing so. If rugby is respected it can only go one way. Then again France is a notoriously disrespectful bunch.

Tuivasa wrote:Argentina by 5.
Their ranking is low because they have been playing the other 3 rwc semifinalists. No easy games like in the 6 nations.

This is why the world rankings are flawed. Teams like Italy and Argentina play hard teams all the time.

mdaclarke wrote:

Tuivasa wrote:Argentina by 5.
Their ranking is low because they have been playing the other 3 rwc semifinalists. No easy games like in the 6 nations.

This is why the world rankings are flawed. Teams like Italy and Argentina play hard teams all the time.

The flaw really comes from NZ, SA and Australia shifting points to the NH in their end of year tours. Otherwise, we would not have seen Wales or Ireland stopping the rankings. Nz losing games has caused some big points movement. Argentina has also lost a lot of games against 6N sides. They didn't take the opportunity to climb the rankings when presented with it.

France by -9.

TheFrog wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:Now we will know I suppose. Practically a full strength super Rugby side against a genuine tier 1 international side.

This one is a must win for the Argies.

France is tier 2 really. Sits with Scotland and Italy at the bottom of the 6N rankings.

If France is Tier 2 Argentina is Tier 4 and we are losing this game by 20, here you've heard it first.


And thanks God you labelled this as "unofficial" hopefully someone could do a decent opening classy first post (Carfer?).

There, I said it. (and don't blame your age).

Looking forward to this game but not expecting a world cup classic. Handling errors galore.

Argentina 19 - France 13

Rain is on the menu. French scrum to maul the Puma's scrum. France by 3. I have changed my view on this game...

Biggest concern for me is that we have no world class kicker in the team, and our centers are likely to have an open door approach all game long... They've never played together, Fickou isn't the hardest defender and Vakatawa isn't a great organiser of a defensive line... N'Tamack isn't the hardest defender either... So I think we'll see a lot of Lauret in this 10-12-13 zone...

Only France can do this, and come into its most important game of the World Cup with an experimental team....

Isa missing is still an idiotic move from Ledesma and I feel very much for Bertranou.

Any idea on how the scrummaging preparation has gone for the Pumas ? Carfer, Julian, Puma ? It's been a huge weakness at gifting penalties to the opposition. The French front row must be licking their lips at the moment.

PUMITA wrote:Isa missing is still an idiotic move from Ledesma and I feel very much for Bertranou.

Any idea on how the scrummaging preparation has gone for the Pumas ? Carfer, Julian, Puma ? It's been a huge weakness at gifting penalties to the opposition. The French front row must be licking their lips at the moment.

That is our only chance. I even suspect the French will drop the ball on purpose to get scrum penalties (which our kicker will proceed to miss dutifully)

Looking forward to this match...actually was my preference for the day when I put in my lottery choice last year and got tickets.

This game has lots of implications for the pool.

My dream scenario is France wins, and then a desperate Argentina to take out England later.

As for who wins, no clue. Was hoping for a free flowing game, but with the call for rain, still not sure who it helps the most.

The two teams 10 months ago in their last test (November 17th 2018)





France : Medard Fall (3')- Thomas, Bastareaud, Fickou, Huget - ( o) Lopez (Belleau,74), (m) Serin (Dupont, 74) - Iturria, Picamoles (Babillot, 68), Lauret - Maestri (Gabrillagues, 74), Vahaamina - Gomes Sa (Slimani, 61), Guirado (Chat, 74), Poirot (Priso, 61).


Argentina : Boffelli - Delguy, Orlando, De La Fuente, Moyano (Moroni, 64) - (o) Sanchez, (m) Bertranou (Cubelli, 76) - Ortega Desio (Bruni, 68), Petti (Lezana, 60), Matera (cap) - Lavanini (Galarza, 60), Alemanno - Medrano (Sordoni, 72), Creevy (Montoya, 60), Garcia Botta (Zeiss, 54)

Petrus wrote:The two teams 10 months ago in their last test (November 17th 2018)





France : Medard Fall (3')- Thomas, Bastareaud, Fickou, Huget - ( o) Lopez (Belleau,74), (m) Serin (Dupont, 74) - Iturria, Picamoles (Babillot, 68), Lauret - Maestri (Gabrillagues, 74), Vahaamina - Gomes Sa (Slimani, 61), Guirado (Chat, 74), Poirot (Priso, 61).


Argentina : Boffelli - Delguy, Orlando, De La Fuente, Moyano (Moroni, 64) - (o) Sanchez, (m) Bertranou (Cubelli, 76) - Ortega Desio (Bruni, 68), Petti (Lezana, 60), Matera (cap) - Lavanini (Galarza, 60), Alemanno - Medrano (Sordoni, 72), Creevy (Montoya, 60), Garcia Botta (Zeiss, 54)

In color those who are likely to start on Saturday.

TheFrog wrote:

Petrus wrote:The two teams 10 months ago in their last test (November 17th 2018)





France : Medard Fall (3')- Thomas, Bastareaud, Fickou, Huget - ( o) Lopez (Belleau,74), (m) Serin (Dupont, 74) - Iturria, Picamoles (Babillot, 68), Lauret - Maestri (Gabrillagues, 74), Vahaamina - Gomes Sa (Slimani, 61), Guirado (Chat, 74), Poirot (Priso, 61).


Argentina : Boffelli - Delguy, Orlando, De La Fuente, Moyano (Moroni, 64) - (o) Sanchez, (m) Bertranou (Cubelli, 76) - Ortega Desio (Bruni, 68), Petti (Lezana, 60), Matera (cap) - Lavanini (Galarza, 60), Alemanno - Medrano (Sordoni, 72), Creevy (Montoya, 60), Garcia Botta (Zeiss, 54)

In color those who are likely to start on Saturday.

Medard (who played only 3 minutes for Fall),Penaud for Thomas, Vakatawa for Bastareaud, Ntamack for Lopez, Dupont for Serin, Aldritt for Picamoles, Ollivon for Iturria, Iturria for Maestri, Sliman for gomes Sa. Is that a better starting XV ? Who knows ?
And what our argentinian friends reckon concerning their team ?
,

TheFrog wrote:

Petrus wrote:The two teams 10 months ago in their last test (November 17th 2018)





France : Medard Fall (3')- Thomas, Bastareaud, Fickou, Huget - ( o) Lopez (Belleau,74), (m) Serin (Dupont, 74) - Iturria, Picamoles (Babillot, 68), Lauret - Maestri (Gabrillagues, 74), Vahaamina - Gomes Sa (Slimani, 61), Guirado (Chat, 74), Poirot (Priso, 61).


Argentina : Boffelli - Delguy, Orlando, De La Fuente, Moyano (Moroni, 64) - (o) Sanchez, (m) Bertranou (Cubelli, 76) - Ortega Desio (Bruni, 68), Petti (Lezana, 60), Matera (cap) - Lavanini (Galarza, 60), Alemanno - Medrano (Sordoni, 72), Creevy (Montoya, 60), Garcia Botta (Zeiss, 54)

In color those who are likely to start on Saturday.

Petti should start in second row,no ?

Petrus wrote:

TheFrog wrote:

Petrus wrote:The two teams 10 months ago in their last test (November 17th 2018)





France : Medard Fall (3')- Thomas, Bastareaud, Fickou, Huget - ( o) Lopez (Belleau,74), (m) Serin (Dupont, 74) - Iturria, Picamoles (Babillot, 68), Lauret - Maestri (Gabrillagues, 74), Vahaamina - Gomes Sa (Slimani, 61), Guirado (Chat, 74), Poirot (Priso, 61).


Argentina : Boffelli - Delguy, Orlando, De La Fuente, Moyano (Moroni, 64) - (o) Sanchez, (m) Bertranou (Cubelli, 76) - Ortega Desio (Bruni, 68), Petti (Lezana, 60), Matera (cap) - Lavanini (Galarza, 60), Alemanno - Medrano (Sordoni, 72), Creevy (Montoya, 60), Garcia Botta (Zeiss, 54)

In color those who are likely to start on Saturday.

Petti should start in second row,no ?

Yes, just like Iturria will start in second row. I didn't highlight them as they are picked up in a different role from the last game.

To answer your question above, I think Medard instead of Fall is improving, same for Penaud over Thomas. I prefer Vakatawa to Bastareaud as an attacking threat but two question marks here. First Vakatawa is less of sound defender (he puts in big tackles and is hard on the man, but collectively less in control and won't bring the added benefit of slowing down the ball that Bastareau could bring to France, something important given our inability to play high intensity games). Concerning NTamack, this should be an improvement over Lopes, although you have to question whether his lack of experience won't be a concern when faced with blood thirsty Argentinians, who will cry of emotion and determination during the anthems and enter the game to break as many French bones as they can. Will the young kid resist a few mean shots by Lavanini? This is the big question. Dupont for Serin is good for the individual ability to break the line and threaten ball in hand, but Serin is a better organiser of the game. Dupont is instinct where Serin is brain. And this takes away one kicking option. Aldritt for Picamoles is good, Aldritt is much better all around player. Ollivon for Iturria is the same profile. Key here is that we lose a powerhouse in the second row, where Iturria will be lighter than Maestri. We'll lose some edge here, which is a shame because this is the only Puma's weakness versus France. Slimani has improved his scrummaging technique and is here to earn France scrum penalties. But he is much less mobile than Gomes Sa. This will work however for this game under the rain.

Where:
Tokyo, Japan









Venue:
Tokyo Stadium, Tokyo │ Capacity: 45,000





Who:



TBC

Replacements:

TBC







TBC

Replacements:

TBC



History:



Played: 51

France: 36
Argentina: 14
Draw: 1

Last matches:

17 Nov 2018 | November Internationals | France 28 - 13 Argentina
25 Jun 2016 | June Internationals | Argentina 0 - 27 France
19 Jun 2016 | June Internationals | Argentina 30 - 19 France
22 Nov 2014 | November Internationals | France 13 - 18 Argentina
17 Nov 2012 | November Internationals | France 39 - 22 Argentina
23 Jun 2012 | Winter Tours | Argentina 10 - 49 France
16 Jun 2012 | Winter Tours | Argentina 23 - 20 France
20 Nov 2010 | End of Year Tours | France 15 - 9 Argentina
26 Jun 2010 | Winter Tours | Argentina 41 - 13 France
19 Oct 2007 | IRB Rugby World Cup | France 10 - 34 Argentina
07 Sep 2007 | IRB Rugby World Cup | France 12 - 17 Argentina

When:

Date : Saturday 21 Sep

Kick Off :

Sat 09:15 Paris, France
Sat 07:45 GMT
Sat 04:15 Buenos Aires, Argentina

Match Officials:

Referee - Angus Gardner (Australia)



Assistant Referee 1 - Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant Referee 2 - Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)

TMO - Marius Jonker (South Africa)

Tokyo - Weather Forecast :

TheFrog, if you wish, you can use "quote" to access the text that you can then insert in the OP.

PUMITA wrote:Any idea on how the scrummaging preparation has gone for the Pumas ? Carfer, Julian, Puma ? It's been a huge weakness at gifting penalties to the opposition. The French front row must be licking their lips at the moment.

Yeah that’s my worry. Hopefully Figallo somehow finds his old form. Tough to do when you don’t play for your club all season.

Carfer wrote:TheFrog, if you wish, you can use "quote" to access the text that you can then insert in the OP.

Done, thank you for this. Can't see any picture though... because of company's filters.

TheFrog wrote:

Carfer wrote:TheFrog, if you wish, you can use "quote" to access the text that you can then insert in the OP.

Done, thank you for this. Can't see any picture though... because of company's filters.

The images are ok for those who do not suffer the tyranny of concentrated capital.

it's the "history" picture that is permanently banned from the french interwebz

panamax wrote:it's the "history" picture that is permanently banned from the french interwebz

Either I was at the game Or I did not watch it (if it's the loser final i skipped)...

French XV: 15. Médard ; 14. Penaud, 13. Vakatawa, 12. Fickou, 11. Huget ; 10. Ntamack, 9. Dupont ; 7. Ollivon, 8. Alldritt, 6. Lauret ; 5. Vahaamahina, 4. Iturria ; 3. Slimani, 2. Guirado (cap.), 1. Poirot.

Subs: 16. Chat, 17. Baille, 18. Bamba, 19. Le Roux, 20. Picamoles, 21. Machenaud, 22. Lopez, 23. Ramos.

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:France by -9.

I am inclined to agree.

Last minute changes around the fly-half, where it matters most. For the most important game since 2015. Crazy.

I do not trust our 10-12-13 axis.

N'tamack and Fickou are defensive liabilities and I have doubts about their ability to handle and steer such a huge pressure game.

I like our forwards though, it's going to be the hell of a battle upfront.

We also have the X factors Dupont and Penaud, which can swing the game.

It's going to be very tough. Head says Argentina.

Well it’s definitely a bold selection from France. Lots of attacking potential but also looks a little fallible in defence.

How often has Vakatawa played at 12? I’ve only ever seen him at 13 or wing which are both very different to 12 - particularly from a defensive point of view.

Scrumhead wrote:Well it’s definitely a bold selection from France. Lots of attacking potential but also looks a little fallible in defence.

How often has Vakatawa played at 12? I’ve only ever seen him at 13 or wing which are both very different to 12 - particularly from a defensive point of view.

Fickou will play first center; Vakatawa has done rather well as second center for Racing...

Scrumhead wrote:Well it’s definitely a bold selection from France. Lots of attacking potential but also looks a little fallible in defence.

How often has Vakatawa played at 12? I’ve only ever seen him at 13 or wing which are both very different to 12 - particularly from a defensive point of view.

If I understand well, whatever the numbers on the shirts, Fickou will play first center and Vakatawa second center.

i belivee the absence of fofana might cost us the game... i don't mind Vakatawa and i know fickou is talented but i just have a bad feeling abt this

hopefully our front row can milk enough penalties to keep us in the game otherwise we're doomed

I have a serious 'interest' in this game but my French compatriots are not filling me with confidence this morning...!!!

The Sun God wrote:I have a serious 'interest' in this game but my French compatriots are not filling me with confidence this morning...!!!

You got money riding on France I take it? What odds did you get?