OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

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camroc1
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by camroc1 »

Duff Paddy wrote:
SamShark wrote:
SamShark wrote:Fascinating thread on more UK concessions to get a deal.

If "Concession 1" on level playing field is correct, does this enrage the ERG or do they not think this is an issue as you just cross the bridge when you come to it?

"The Level Playing Field is back. Boris Johnson has agreed that the UK must be in line with EU norms on climate, environment and workers’ rights for a Free Trade Agreement."

https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/stat ... 8452269056

Faisal Islam has explained it

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 5693494273
The EU isn’t going to let the UK become a competitor - bimbo is trolling his heart out about corporation tax but it’s a non starter
Corporation tax is worth fúck all when you are not in the single market.
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camroc1
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by camroc1 »

Latest story doing the rounds is that the DUP want every UK government assistance in getting Stormont up and running as quickly as possible so that they can stop the abortion and same sex marriage legislation passed in Westminster becoming law in NI by default.

https://twitter.com/stellacreasy?ref_sr ... 8994407425
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SamShark
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by SamShark »

camroc1 wrote:Latest story doing the rounds is that the DUP want every UK government assistance in getting Stormont up and running as quickly as possible so that they can stop the abortion and same sex marriage legislation passed in Westminster becoming law in NI by default.

https://twitter.com/stellacreasy?ref_sr ... 8994407425
Add to my weak consolations/reasons to be optimistic list.

- No longer have to deal with the DUP
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Saint
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Saint »

fishfoodie wrote:
Saint wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Of course it has sway, economics was the reason they voted no last time and the big question “what will our currency be”? Is rather persuasive.
And since then.nothing has changed?


55-45 last time.e round d is going to.be pretty easy to flip given how they perceive they've been treated

It's now at 50-50, and we've not even Brexited yet.

What will our currency be when we leave. ?

What happens to my “sterling” pension rights?

None of these questions is answered by “it’s a bit like brexit” .


Unless you think the EU is going to give cast iron guarantees to Scotland about the Euro and then they run the problem of their deficit size then your argument doesn’t hold water.
I'm saying that those were part if the arguement that won the referendum last time, but that other factors have changed - and you don't need to shift many people to get a different result.

Unless you think all 55% remain are all in complete harmony with each other? As I said the latest polls are at 50-50 and they're still EU citizens with at least a slight chance of remaining EU citizens

1 year from now? That's not going to look pretty for Unionists. But of course, the Conservative and Unionist party have already been polled and think losing NI for the sake of Brexit is a fair enough trade; I doubt that they're too bothered by Scotland either
Well the Tories are probably going to lose all the seats they fought so hard to gain in Scotland, & the Turk might be beating Corbyn in the rest of the UK; but I doubt he could get a job fishing turds out of the Clyde in Scotland, & he does seem to have a knack for pissing the Scots off.

If the Tories have zero Political footprint in Scotland, & NI; why would they spend any of the, Post-Brexit, limited budget funds there ?
The clue might be in their full name - The Conservative and Unionist Party. Part of their raison d'etre was to ensure the future of the Union. If they're abandoning that, as their membership appears happy to, then what next?
Last edited by Saint on Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Saint
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Saint »

bimboman wrote:I actually think that Scotland has a right to have a say on their EU membership and independence, immof the opinion that the EU don’t really want them and that the people will quietly vote to remain in the UK even though you’ll meet almost no one post the vote who admits to voting remain.


Either way good for them. As long as I’m not being asked to pay for it who cares.
I tell you what bimbo, I'm at a complete loss if you asked me to define your political beliefs.. i genuinely can't reconcile sone of them, even if I take you at your word that you actually voted Remain and only voted Cirbyn to screw over the Labiur Party..
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Saint
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Saint »

SamShark wrote:
camroc1 wrote:Latest story doing the rounds is that the DUP want every UK government assistance in getting Stormont up and running as quickly as possible so that they can stop the abortion and same sex marriage legislation passed in Westminster becoming law in NI by default.

https://twitter.com/stellacreasy?ref_sr ... 8994407425
Add to my weak consolations/reasons to be optimistic list.

- No longer have to deal with the DUP
Now that one I agree with
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fishfoodie
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by fishfoodie »

Saint wrote:
bimboman wrote:I actually think that Scotland has a right to have a say on their EU membership and independence, immof the opinion that the EU don’t really want them and that the people will quietly vote to remain in the UK even though you’ll meet almost no one post the vote who admits to voting remain.


Either way good for them. As long as I’m not being asked to pay for it who cares.
I tell you what bimbo, I'm at a complete loss if you asked me to define your political beliefs.. i genuinely can't reconcile sone of them, even if I take you at your word that you actually voted Remain and only voted Cirbyn to screw over the Labiur Party..
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
mdaclarke
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by mdaclarke »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... before-mps

???????

I don not know what Mr Maugham hopes to achieve?

1. I do not think he will win
2. Even if he does, if there are enough votes for the deal there will be enough votes to change this law
3. If it does succeed it will delay not stop brexit
4. It is terrible politics as it looks like remainers are throwing their toys out of the pram because a deal has been done
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camroc1
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by camroc1 »

mdaclarke wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... before-mps

???????

I don not know what Mr Maugham hopes to achieve?

1. I do not think he will win
2. Even if he does, if there are enough votes for the deal there will be enough votes to change this law
3. If it does succeed it will delay not stop brexit
4. It is terrible politics as it looks like remainers are throwing their toys out of the pram because a deal has been done
If there are enough votes to pass the agreement, there are enough votes to revoke the law.

Very, very petty indeed.
mdaclarke
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by mdaclarke »

camroc1 wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... before-mps

???????

I don not know what Mr Maugham hopes to achieve?

1. I do not think he will win
2. Even if he does, if there are enough votes for the deal there will be enough votes to change this law
3. If it does succeed it will delay not stop brexit
4. It is terrible politics as it looks like remainers are throwing their toys out of the pram because a deal has been done
If there are enough votes to pass the agreement, there are enough votes to revoke the law.

Very, very petty indeed.
The law was passed by parliament and the law can be changed by parliament.

I stand by my comments above. I don't see what Mr Maugham is hoping to achieve. I can imgaine the papers

"We have a deal, parliament wants to pass it. But the Court says we can't put it before them!"

The reality is if Parliament wants to pass a deal then it will find a way to do so.
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camroc1
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by camroc1 »

mdaclarke wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... before-mps

???????

I don not know what Mr Maugham hopes to achieve?

1. I do not think he will win
2. Even if he does, if there are enough votes for the deal there will be enough votes to change this law
3. If it does succeed it will delay not stop brexit
4. It is terrible politics as it looks like remainers are throwing their toys out of the pram because a deal has been done
If there are enough votes to pass the agreement, there are enough votes to revoke the law.

Very, very petty indeed.
The law was passed by parliament and the law can be changed by parliament.

I stand by my comments above. I don't see what Mr Maugham is hoping to achieve. I can imgaine the papers

"We have a deal, parliament wants to pass it. But the Court says we can't put it before them!"

The reality is if Parliament wants to pass a deal then it will find a way to do so.
I think you'll find that we are in agreement.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by mdaclarke »

camroc1 wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... before-mps

???????

I don not know what Mr Maugham hopes to achieve?

1. I do not think he will win
2. Even if he does, if there are enough votes for the deal there will be enough votes to change this law
3. If it does succeed it will delay not stop brexit
4. It is terrible politics as it looks like remainers are throwing their toys out of the pram because a deal has been done
If there are enough votes to pass the agreement, there are enough votes to revoke the law.

Very, very petty indeed.
The law was passed by parliament and the law can be changed by parliament.

I stand by my comments above. I don't see what Mr Maugham is hoping to achieve. I can imgaine the papers

"We have a deal, parliament wants to pass it. But the Court says we can't put it before them!"

The reality is if Parliament wants to pass a deal then it will find a way to do so.
I think you'll find that we are in agreement.
Sorry I misread your message! Just got back from the pub.
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Saint
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Saint »

mdaclarke wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... before-mps

???????

I don not know what Mr Maugham hopes to achieve?

1. I do not think he will win
2. Even if he does, if there are enough votes for the deal there will be enough votes to change this law
3. If it does succeed it will delay not stop brexit
4. It is terrible politics as it looks like remainers are throwing their toys out of the pram because a deal has been done
There's tro things I would imagine

1 - the order things are done in. I take the point that in principle that if the deal passes, their are probably tgd voted to revoke or amend the previous act.

2 - getting MPs voted kn record as to exactly what they have changed in order to enact the Brexit bill.

I agree that it can look a bit witty, but on point 1cat least it's actually the law - you need to amend previous legislation to enable new legislation
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SamShark
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by SamShark »

Yeah, it doesn't look that good - I was uncomfortable with it when seeing it earlier. I think the courts should absolutely be used to prevent dirty tricks from Johnson, but this might be seen as a dirty trick too. Don't think it will get anywhere.

Anyway - this woman seems to hit the nail on the head:
https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status ... 5529776131
mdaclarke
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by mdaclarke »

Saint wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... before-mps

???????

I don not know what Mr Maugham hopes to achieve?

1. I do not think he will win
2. Even if he does, if there are enough votes for the deal there will be enough votes to change this law
3. If it does succeed it will delay not stop brexit
4. It is terrible politics as it looks like remainers are throwing their toys out of the pram because a deal has been done
There's tro things I would imagine

1 - the order things are done in. I take the point that in principle that if the deal passes, their are probably tgd voted to revoke or amend the previous act.

2 - getting MPs voted kn record as to exactly what they have changed in order to enact the Brexit bill.

I agree that it can look a bit witty, but on point 1cat least it's actually the law - you need to amend previous legislation to enable new legislation
I think it is more about delaying than blocking brexit. But it will look terrible to average voter. I don't think it will succeed but it will make Mr Maugham look good to his mates.
mdaclarke
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by mdaclarke »

SamShark wrote:Yeah, it doesn't look that good - I was uncomfortable with it when seeing it earlier. I think the courts should absolutely be used to prevent dirty tricks from Johnson, but this might be seen as a dirty trick too. Don't think it will get anywhere.

Anyway - this woman seems to hit the nail on the head:
https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status ... 5529776131
I think the government's QC will just say that we are aware of this law and any act of parliament implementing the WA will revoke this section.
mdaclarke
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by mdaclarke »

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/b ... settlement

This articles implies that Corbyn secretly wants Johnson's deal to pass so Brexit can be done. Wouldn't surprise me if Corbyn hasn't given the tacit green light for some labour MPs to back any deal to get Brexit done and dusted.
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RodneyRegis
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by RodneyRegis »

SamShark wrote:It's really sad how much we need to get rid of our FPTP voting systen, but never will as it works nicely for the 2 main parties.

I can't even remember what/if I voted in the referendum on this, and at the time I just didn't care as was happy enough with a centre right/centre left party competing.
Right. So you never thought there was anything wrong with FPTP until it stopped giving you the democracy you wanted.

It's SOOOOO bad, we NEEEEED to get rid of it.

Without FPTP The SNP has about 3 seats and Brexit 80. With it SNP get 30 and Brexit none. We'd never have a government, only weak and volatile coalitions. Be careful what you wish for. PR works for countries like Ireland where there are never really any significant decisions to be made, especially now that the people have pretty much decided it's time to join the 21st century, immigration is minimal and they can rely on sweetheart deals with foreign businesses to prop up the economy.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Sun Tzu »

fudge the DUP
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normilet
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by normilet »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 59286.html

Image
Boris Johnson's Brexit plan has received a crushing blow just hours ahead of a critical EU summit, as the DUP said they "could not support" what is being proposed.

It comes as the prime minister prepares to meet with his European counterparts in Brussels as No 10 was on the brink of securing a new Brexit deal.

But in a statement released at 7am on Thursday, Mr Johnson's hopes of avoiding a Brexit extension appeared to be dashed by the DUP, who prop up the Conservatives at Westminster through a supply and confidence agreement.

A statement from the DUP leader Arlene Foster and her deputy, Nigel Dodds, said: "We have been involved in ongoing discussions with the government.


"As things stand, we could not support what is being suggested on customs and consent issues, and there is a lack of clarity on VAT.

But they did not rule out the possibility of support an agreement, adding: "We will continue to work with the government to try and get a sensible deal that works for Northern Ireland and protects the economic and constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom."

The decision from the DUP effectively torpedoes the prime minister's hopes of passing any Brexit deal through the House of Commons on Saturday.

Mr Johnson had been in close contact with Ms Foster and Mr Dodds in recent days, as he attempted to shore up their support ahead of the weekend.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by C69 »

Never never never.

No deal is happening unless it gets past the Commons.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Duff Paddy »

c69 wrote:Never never never.

No deal is happening unless it gets past the Commons.
https://youtu.be/yzLT6_TQmq8
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Leffe
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Leffe »

Surely the EU can't agree to this as there's no legal text from the UK?

If they could, surely they would, safe in the knowledge that it won't pass in the UK.

This is surely just BJ flapping around like he would on campus, trying to get the Bully club cheap drinks in a place they'll subsequently smash up, only for pater to settle later on.
backrow
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by backrow »

What do DUP mean again about the word ‘consent ‘ ?
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Leffe
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Leffe »

Duff Paddy wrote:
c69 wrote:Never never never.

No deal is happening unless it gets past the Commons.
https://youtu.be/yzLT6_TQmq8
Tune!
backrow
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by backrow »

backrow wrote:What do DUP mean again about the word ‘consent ‘ ?
Ah, it’s about their veto - thought it might be abortion ! :lol:

Soz but trying to keep up with what they want is hard
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normilet
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by normilet »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... itics-live
The DUP’s statement makes clear the party cannot support the deal as it stands, but it is not closing the door completely so could be read as a final prod to Michel Barnier to compromise on the customs arrangements, consent and give more clarity on the very tricky issue of VAT.

Three routes open up from this:

1. Boris Johnson compromises more. However with three meetings in three days in Downing Street, it is unclear whether Downing Street can cede any more and ruins the prospect of a deal.


2. The EU yields to the DUP’s demands. Given the EU’s deep concern about how it can protect the single market from rogue goods on a border, with no border checks, it is difficult to see the EU cede further on customs.

3. The DUP folds at the last minute. Note its statement: “We will continue to work with the government to try and get a sensible deal that works for Northern Ireland and protects the economic and constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom”. This is leaving the door open to further changes today.


It is worth remembering that the DUP is the party that says no. “No surrender” was its slogan in its heyday when it was led by its bombastic founder, the now deceased Ian Paisley.


It is also worth remembering that it did not support the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement in 1998. And we know what happened there.
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Willie Falloon
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Willie Falloon »

c69 wrote:Never never never.

No deal is happening unless it gets past the Commons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9uHhLe6WE0
backrow
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by backrow »

What would DUP be least likely to cede on, the customs bit or the veto?
Or both equally unlikely ?

Not sure Eu cares about the veto but tbf seeing as they don’t meet in Stormont and use their already existing assembley
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by C69 »

Willie Falloon wrote:
c69 wrote:Never never never.

No deal is happening unless it gets past the Commons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9uHhLe6WE0
:lol: quite
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Hellraiser »

RodneyRegis wrote:
SamShark wrote:It's really sad how much we need to get rid of our FPTP voting systen, but never will as it works nicely for the 2 main parties.

I can't even remember what/if I voted in the referendum on this, and at the time I just didn't care as was happy enough with a centre right/centre left party competing.
Right. So you never thought there was anything wrong with FPTP until it stopped giving you the democracy you wanted.

It's SOOOOO bad, we NEEEEED to get rid of it.

Without FPTP The SNP has about 3 seats and Brexit 80. With it SNP get 30 and Brexit none. We'd never have a government, only weak and volatile coalitions. Be careful what you wish for. PR works for countries like Ireland where there are never really any significant decisions to be made, especially now that the people have pretty much decided it's time to join the 21st century, immigration is minimal and they can rely on sweetheart deals with foreign businesses to prop up the economy.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by paddyor »

Gospel wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:I have always thought that attacking the bus was a mistake by the remain side. You are highlighting the Leavers message. And Remainers rebuttal "we send £250 million a week to the EU" is still crap, the average voter will still think "F**k that is still at lot of money the EU is costing us!"
That was the entire point of it and why they used the gross figure in order to goad the remain campaign into discussing the money.
We’ve been numerous times now that no one believed the bus figure but whatever.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by Sandstorm »

DUP says no. Typical :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by iarmhiman »

Extension it is then. Shite for Boris.
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camroc1
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by camroc1 »

backrow wrote:What do DUP mean again about the word ‘consent ‘ ?
An indefinite unionist veto.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by bimboman »

paddyor wrote:
Gospel wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:I have always thought that attacking the bus was a mistake by the remain side. You are highlighting the Leavers message. And Remainers rebuttal "we send £250 million a week to the EU" is still crap, the average voter will still think "F**k that is still at lot of money the EU is costing us!"
That was the entire point of it and why they used the gross figure in order to goad the remain campaign into discussing the money.
We’ve been numerous times now that no one believed the bus figure but whatever.

No one had to believe it, the idea was to provoke the conversation. Having remain campaigning that it was only 100 million a week was the perfect outcome, it also made the idea of “EU funded” projects laughable.

You seem quite susceptible to simple ideas.
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ManInTheBar
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by ManInTheBar »

It's the same old game - you CANNOT find a solution that sufficient parties will accept - whatever you put out, there will be enough idealogues to ensure that it is a minority position.

What a mess
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by iarmhiman »

His problem is and always will be until the GE happens is that he doesn't have the numbers in parliament.
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camroc1
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by camroc1 »

Tony Connolly on what he understands the EU and the UK have agreed in 19 tweets.

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status ... 9757529088
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tazman77
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread - KO 11:59pm 31/10/19?

Post by tazman77 »

I still don't trust Bojo or the DUP.
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