OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

[YOYO]

Having listened to a bit more of the parliament tv recording, at 11:23:56 one of the main logistics advisers on the call believes the best way to fix all the trading issues will be for the UK to move to a Theresa May Withdrawal Agreement.
He doesn’t actually say Theresa May Withdrawal Agreement but what he’s intimating.

Remoaniacs got to remoan

Is the “Future Relationship with the European Union Committee” made up of remainers?

At least 50/50

Is it a good sample base?

[RodneyRegis]

Very interesting viewing,

The reoccurring theme is the bureaucracy, paperwork,red tape, manual processes, computer systems not aligned and new costs and overheads involved.
The rules of origin is causing mayhem too.

Sounds fairly chaotic.

It really isn’t .....

Technology is great, most of the paper work is now automated by the forwarder from the systems they were already using. Of course Ireland have few concerns about RoO because they just launder the cash not actually make anything.

Maybe the the large sophisticated companies like Unilever, but no, it’s not working smoothly at all.
I suggest to watch that recording from yesterday.

No need to be spiteful about the ROI. They did comment how ROI warehousing and distribution companies working for the supermarkets here are doing a great job. They’re managing the impact of the the UK generated issues very well apparently.
Remember the UK has a trading surplus with the ROI. We’re your 5th biggest trading partner in the world. You really don’t want to mess that up now.

And Eu has a trading surplus with the Uk, they don’t want to mess that up either.
As usual, you pick and choose what you consider important

Similar export downsides for both Ireland and the UK shocker. That's called a "win" for Brit Brexitists.

Luckily the EU has your back, Irish brothers

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/ir ... t-reserve/

Ah, more subsidies.

[message #2527204]

Having listened to a bit more of the parliament tv recording, at 11:23:56 one of the main logistics advisers on the call believes the best way to fix all the trading issues will be for the UK to move to a Theresa May Withdrawal Agreement.
He doesn’t actually say Theresa May Withdrawal Agreement but what he’s intimating.

Remoaniacs got to remoan

Is the “Future Relationship with the European Union Committee” made up of remainers?

At least 50/50

Is it a good sample base?

I'm not sure what you're on about? 50% of the population were Brexiters and 50% remainers. To inform the committee that the way to fix it is to go back into the EU seems pretty ridiculous doesn't it?

[YOYO]

Remoaniacs got to remoan

Is the “Future Relationship with the European Union Committee” made up of remainers?

At least 50/50

Is it a good sample base?

I'm not sure what you're on about? 50% of the population were Brexiters and 50% remainers. To inform the committee that the way to fix it is to go back into the EU seems pretty ridiculous doesn't it?

Statistics based sample base. Are these people a suitable cross section of society from which to draw the conclusion that roughly half of them voted Brexit and roughly half voted remain? I was basing my last comment on the 52/48 % Brexit vote.

[YOYO]

I think your “ Remoaniacs got to remoan” makes no sense in this case. The situation is what it is. These people are trying to do a job and they know now they are in the middle of some pretty deep sh1t.

Reconfiguring the UK’s supply chain might ultimately be what has to be done and that would be messy and costly with potentially negative impacts to the UK.

[message #2527204]

I think your “ Remoaniacs got to remoan” makes no sense in this case. The situation is what it is. These people are trying to do a job and they know now they are in the middle of some pretty deep sh1t.

Reconfiguring the UK’s supply chain might ultimately be what has to be done and that would be messy and costly with potentially negative impacts to the UK.

That's what they're there to find out. Simply saying it woiuld be better if hadn't left is pointless.

[mdaclarke]

I think your “ Remoaniacs got to remoan” makes no sense in this case. The situation is what it is. These people are trying to do a job and they know now they are in the middle of some pretty deep sh1t.

Reconfiguring the UK’s supply chain might ultimately be what has to be done and that would be messy and costly with potentially negative impacts to the UK.

No real issue with Remoaniacs moaning, issue is when they (as British citizens and British politicians) act like then want the UK to fail.

Even if we fail if Remoaniacs are acting like they want the UK to fail and then telling us "i told you so" , do they honestly think the UK electorate is going to thank them for it and vote for them?

[YOYO]

I think your “ Remoaniacs got to remoan” makes no sense in this case. The situation is what it is. These people are trying to do a job and they know now they are in the middle of some pretty deep sh1t.

Reconfiguring the UK’s supply chain might ultimately be what has to be done and that would be messy and costly with potentially negative impacts to the UK.

No real issue with Remoaniacs moaning, issue is when they (as British citizens and British politicians) act like then want the UK to fail.

Even if we fail if Remoaniacs are acting like they want the UK to fail and then telling us "i told you so" , do they honestly think the UK electorate is going to thank them for it and vote for them?

Ok, I understand your point. But in this case we don’t know the committees and advisers political persuasion or how they voted on Brexit.

[bimboman]

Having listened to a bit more of the parliament tv recording, at 11:23:56 one of the main logistics advisers on the call believes the best way to fix all the trading issues will be for the UK to move to a Theresa May Withdrawal Agreement.
He doesn’t actually say Theresa May Withdrawal Agreement but what he’s intimating.

Remoaniacs got to remoan

Is the “Future Relationship with the European Union Committee” made up of remainers?

No, Irish .

[shereblue]

It really isn’t .....

Technology is great, most of the paper work is now automated by the forwarder from the systems they were already using. Of course Ireland have few concerns about RoO because they just launder the cash not actually make anything.

Maybe the the large sophisticated companies like Unilever, but no, it’s not working smoothly at all.
I suggest to watch that recording from yesterday.

No need to be spiteful about the ROI. They did comment how ROI warehousing and distribution companies working for the supermarkets here are doing a great job. They’re managing the impact of the the UK generated issues very well apparently.
Remember the UK has a trading surplus with the ROI. We’re your 5th biggest trading partner in the world. You really don’t want to mess that up now.

And Eu has a trading surplus with the Uk, they don’t want to mess that up either.
As usual, you pick and choose what you consider important

Similar export downsides for both Ireland and the UK shocker. That's called a "win" for Brit Brexitists.

Luckily the EU has your back, Irish brothers

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/ir ... t-reserve/

Ah, more subsidies.

The Brexit "variant" of the Conservative Party is promising socialist subsidies left right and centre to Breximoaners from Red Wallers to Farmers and Fishermen.

I'd call it Nationalist and Socialist. The CP should perhaps be re-named?

[earl the beaver]

Vicky Prentis really should avoid media gigs.

Surely got to be under pressure to resign.

Didn't have time to read the Brexit deal text and proposals for fishing because she was organising her village nativity trail.

She's the fúcking fisheries minister ffs.

[YOYO]

Vicky Prentis really should avoid media gigs.

Surely got to be under pressure to resign.

Didn't have time to read the Brexit deal text and proposals for fishing because she was organising her village nativity trail.

She's the fúcking fisheries minister ffs.

Read that too. She should be sacked right away. Her heart doesn’t seem in the job.

[mdaclarke]

I think your “ Remoaniacs got to remoan” makes no sense in this case. The situation is what it is. These people are trying to do a job and they know now they are in the middle of some pretty deep sh1t.

Reconfiguring the UK’s supply chain might ultimately be what has to be done and that would be messy and costly with potentially negative impacts to the UK.

No real issue with Remoaniacs moaning, issue is when they (as British citizens and British politicians) act like then want the UK to fail.

Even if we fail if Remoaniacs are acting like they want the UK to fail and then telling us "i told you so" , do they honestly think the UK electorate is going to thank them for it and vote for them?

Ok, I understand your point. But in this case we don’t know the committees and advisers political persuasion or how they voted on Brexit.

I don't think it matters, all the matters is how the public perceive them.

Following on from the above point. If I was a serious remainer I would be having a word with the dutch police as if they think that stories about Beef and Ham Sandwiches being confiscated at the border is going to help the Remain cause then they are very much mistaken. I can guarantee that the British Public are not going "The EU confiscated our Sandwiches, we must rejoin!"

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... it-6897860

[SaintK]

Vicky Prentis really should avoid media gigs.

Surely got to be under pressure to resign.

Didn't have time to read the Brexit deal text and proposals for fishing because she was organising her village nativity trail.

She's the fúcking fisheries minister ffs.

Read that too. She should be sacked right away. Her heart doesn’t seem in the job.

The blonde slug that is PM hasn't got the bollocks to sack any of his appointees

[YOYO]

What ever you do don’t take my sarnies!! I’m fine otherwise.

[Gospel]

Vicky Prentis really should avoid media gigs.

Surely got to be under pressure to resign.

Didn't have time to read the Brexit deal text and proposals for fishing because she was organising her village nativity trail.

She's the fúcking fisheries minister ffs.

Read that too. She should be sacked right away. Her heart doesn’t seem in the job.

A remainer and someone that backed Rory Stewart in the leadership contest. It does rather appear that her heart wasn't in it - at least compared to the Christmas festivities.

[bimboman]

Maybe the the large sophisticated companies like Unilever, but no, it’s not working smoothly at all.
I suggest to watch that recording from yesterday.

No need to be spiteful about the ROI. They did comment how ROI warehousing and distribution companies working for the supermarkets here are doing a great job. They’re managing the impact of the the UK generated issues very well apparently.
Remember the UK has a trading surplus with the ROI. We’re your 5th biggest trading partner in the world. You really don’t want to mess that up now.

And Eu has a trading surplus with the Uk, they don’t want to mess that up either.
As usual, you pick and choose what you consider important

Similar export downsides for both Ireland and the UK shocker. That's called a "win" for Brit Brexitists.

Luckily the EU has your back, Irish brothers

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/ir ... t-reserve/

Ah, more subsidies.

The Brexit "variant" of the Conservative Party is promising socialist subsidies left right and centre to Breximoaners from Red Wallers to Farmers and Fishermen.

I'd call it Nationalist and Socialist. The CP should perhaps be re-named?

You can’t help expose what you really are for long,

[Sawtooth the Beaver]

Adds psychology to long list.

[bimboman]

Adds psychology to long list.

Aw didums.

[shereblue]

I think your “ Remoaniacs got to remoan” makes no sense in this case. The situation is what it is. These people are trying to do a job and they know now they are in the middle of some pretty deep sh1t.

Reconfiguring the UK’s supply chain might ultimately be what has to be done and that would be messy and costly with potentially negative impacts to the UK.

No real issue with Remoaniacs moaning, issue is when they (as British citizens and British politicians) act like then want the UK to fail.

Even if we fail if Remoaniacs are acting like they want the UK to fail and then telling us "i told you so" , do they honestly think the UK electorate is going to thank them for it and vote for them?

Ok, I understand your point. But in this case we don’t know the committees and advisers political persuasion or how they voted on Brexit.

I don't think it matters, all the matters is how the public perceive them.

Following on from the above point. If I was a serious remainer I would be having a word with the dutch police as if they think that stories about Beef and Ham Sandwiches being confiscated at the border is going to help the Remain cause then they are very much mistaken. I can guarantee that the British Public are not going "The EU confiscated our Sandwiches, we must rejoin!"

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... it-6897860

Breximoaners are racists who are fed a daily ration of "red meat" stories with little connection to reality.

If you compare the good humour of the Dutch customs officials with US customs officials in applying the same regulations, you'd be rushing back into the bosom of your loving Euro neighbours.

Where I do agree with the racists is that controlling one's borders does have a role. The maskless Customs officials at LHR on Covid Island are a modern Maginot Line.

[mdaclarke]

I think your “ Remoaniacs got to remoan” makes no sense in this case. The situation is what it is. These people are trying to do a job and they know now they are in the middle of some pretty deep sh1t.

Reconfiguring the UK’s supply chain might ultimately be what has to be done and that would be messy and costly with potentially negative impacts to the UK.

No real issue with Remoaniacs moaning, issue is when they (as British citizens and British politicians) act like then want the UK to fail.

Even if we fail if Remoaniacs are acting like they want the UK to fail and then telling us "i told you so" , do they honestly think the UK electorate is going to thank them for it and vote for them?

Ok, I understand your point. But in this case we don’t know the committees and advisers political persuasion or how they voted on Brexit.

I don't think it matters, all the matters is how the public perceive them.

Following on from the above point. If I was a serious remainer I would be having a word with the dutch police as if they think that stories about Beef and Ham Sandwiches being confiscated at the border is going to help the Remain cause then they are very much mistaken. I can guarantee that the British Public are not going "The EU confiscated our Sandwiches, we must rejoin!"

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... it-6897860

Breximoaners are racists who are fed a daily ration of "red meat" stories with little connection to reality.

If you compare the good humour of the Dutch customs officials with US customs officials in applying the same regulations, you'd be rushing back into the bosom of your loving Euro neighbours.

Where I do agree with the racists is that controlling one's borders does have a role. The maskless Customs officials at LHR on Covid Island are a modern Maginot Line.

If this is the standard of Liberal Democrat discourse then I despair for the parties future prospects.

I suggest you follow the advice of Lady Clegg

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... ly-6904236

Miriam González Durántez
International trade lawyer

"We must start by accepting that we pro-Europeans have failed comprehensively. Brexit is clearly what British people want, because they voted for it four times: in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2019.

With victory comes accountability. Every single time things go south because of the hard Brexit negotiated by Boris Johnson, the Conservative party should be made accountable for it – not because of a sense of ‘I told you so’, but because there will be opportunities in the near future to revisit the relationship with the EU. Just look at the pressure for another referendum in Scotland only six years after the previous one – who would have thought? And certainly negotiating a much closer relationship with the EU will be possible in four years time, after the next general election.

When those opportunities come, people should have a clear view on the effect that every aspect of this hard Brexit has had on their lives. The main lesson from the failure of the anti-Brexit campaign is that noise serves for nothing unless it translates into political action. No matter how frustrated we may be with our political systems, change is only possible through politics.

If we really want to change things we all need to spend less time demonstrating and venting anger and outrage in social media and much more time campaigning and canvassing. The issue is whether all those who dedicate themselves to showing outrage and anger have the capacity to accept the compromises that politics require."

And also that of Frances Barber

"Constantly attacking Brexiters for being thick and bigoted was a catastrophe. You never win anyone round to an argument by abusing them."

[Sawtooth the Beaver]

by bimboman » 14 Jan 2021 14:46

Sawtooth the Beaver wrote: ↑14 Jan 2021 14:42
Adds psychology to long list.


Aw didums.

Removes psychology from long list.

[shereblue]

Fair point. Although you seem to see "the electorate" as Red Wall types. I actually respect the non racist majority but they are now insincerely pandered to because of their disproportionate influence on the outcome of GEs.

Lib Dem? I'm happy in a Blair to Clarke (Ken) spectrum but more liberal than either but enjoy being challenged by different thinking.

Do bear in mind, I neither expect nor hope to influence political change and am on no mission to change thinking. There's bantz, there's prejudice based on environment and upbringing and migration and globalism are debateable.

However my contempt for those likely to be influenced by Dutch Customs officials stories, let alone Breaking Point posters is unqualified. And at its greatest for those who seek to stoke such discord

[bimboman]

Breximoaners are racists who are fed a daily ration of "red meat" stories with little connection to reality.

“I don’t have an actual argument so I’ll generalise and call everyone who I’ve decided to group together as racists”



Seriously people post stuff like list and consistently either ignore or perpetuate huge generalised opinions of people they dislike. It’s appalling.

[shereblue]

Breximoaners are racists who are fed a daily ration of "red meat" stories with little connection to reality.

“I don’t have an actual argument so I’ll generalise and call everyone who I’ve decided to group together as racists”



Seriously people post stuff like list and consistently either ignore or perpetuate huge generalised opinions of people they dislike. It’s appalling.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You on modern Supply Chains:

“Who will make my latte In Pret” “But the food miles darling , think of the planet, quinoa salad with avocado please “

(A lot more amusing than me, tbf )

[mdaclarke]

Fair point. Although you seem to see "the electorate" as Red Wall types. I actually respect the non racist majority but they are now insincerely pandered to because of their disproportionate influence on the outcome of GEs.

Lib Dem? I'm happy in a Blair to Clarke (Ken) spectrum but more liberal than either but enjoy being challenged by different thinking.

Do bear in mind, I neither expect nor hope to influence political change and am on no mission to change thinking. There's bantz, there's prejudice based on environment and upbringing and migration and globalism are debateable.

However my contempt for those likely to be influenced by Dutch Customs officials stories, let alone Breaking Point posters is unqualified. And at its greatest for those who seek to stoke such discord

Good point. I come on here because I work in a remain heavy industry and workplace so can;t really discuss at work. My family is split 4;2 in favour of leave and discussing with family can lead to arguments. Far better to discuss on here!

[RodneyRegis]

Fair point. Although you seem to see "the electorate" as Red Wall types. I actually respect the non racist majority but they are now insincerely pandered to because of their disproportionate influence on the outcome of GEs.

Lib Dem? I'm happy in a Blair to Clarke (Ken) spectrum but more liberal than either but enjoy being challenged by different thinking.

Do bear in mind, I neither expect nor hope to influence political change and am on no mission to change thinking. There's bantz, there's prejudice based on environment and upbringing and migration and globalism are debateable.

However my contempt for those likely to be influenced by Dutch Customs officials stories, let alone Breaking Point posters is unqualified. And at its greatest for those who seek to stoke such discord

Who's been influenced? It's Daily Mail clickbait. I haven't seen any twitter storms.

[Sawtooth the Beaver]

Isn't twitter a remain echo chamber?

[RodneyRegis]

Isn't twitter a remain echo chamber?

More so now that anyone with a right wing tendency is being de-platformed.

But there's usually plenty of threads full of horrible fascists in spite of that.

[piquant]

Brits on food eh

Anti-elitist Brexitists bragging about eating in Michelin starred restaurants one minute and blind to the simple benefits of quality FRESH ingredients on tap.

Always looking for a silly, nationalist edge.

Fact is Brexit is fucki ng fresh food supply chains - which benefit all Europeans.

Brits in choosing "sovereignty" over decent food and close trading relations with their neighbours.

There are literally no downsides to adding hugely to food miles in an age with no concerns around pollutants and climate change. We should all see this as a marvel and wonder at it's conception and inception

And this is the UKs fault? The EU is imposing these conditions.

The EU is responding to the UK leaving, which the UK didn't have to do.

That said there is a problem to increasing food miles, we needed action on the levels we already had whilst in the EU, and that action is now perhaps even harder to take. We shall wait to see if team Brexit has any answers

Imagine how quickly we'll reduce food miles if we starve everybody?

Food waste is likely a more humane starting point to reduce food miles, but depending on who's being starved that might be a worthy idea

[bimboman]

Breximoaners are racists who are fed a daily ration of "red meat" stories with little connection to reality.

“I don’t have an actual argument so I’ll generalise and call everyone who I’ve decided to group together as racists”



Seriously people post stuff like list and consistently either ignore or perpetuate huge generalised opinions of people they dislike. It’s appalling.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You on modern Supply Chains:

“Who will make my latte In Pret” “But the food miles darling , think of the planet, quinoa salad with avocado please “

(A lot more amusing than me, tbf )

I’m not generalising, this references a women asking the Latte question on BBC question time.

[piquant]

No real issue with Remoaniacs moaning, issue is when they (as British citizens and British politicians) act like then want the UK to fail.

Even if we fail if Remoaniacs are acting like they want the UK to fail and then telling us "i told you so" , do they honestly think the UK electorate is going to thank them for it and vote for them?

Ok, I understand your point. But in this case we don’t know the committees and advisers political persuasion or how they voted on Brexit.

I don't think it matters, all the matters is how the public perceive them.

Following on from the above point. If I was a serious remainer I would be having a word with the dutch police as if they think that stories about Beef and Ham Sandwiches being confiscated at the border is going to help the Remain cause then they are very much mistaken. I can guarantee that the British Public are not going "The EU confiscated our Sandwiches, we must rejoin!"

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... it-6897860

Breximoaners are racists who are fed a daily ration of "red meat" stories with little connection to reality.

If you compare the good humour of the Dutch customs officials with US customs officials in applying the same regulations, you'd be rushing back into the bosom of your loving Euro neighbours.

Where I do agree with the racists is that controlling one's borders does have a role. The maskless Customs officials at LHR on Covid Island are a modern Maginot Line.

If this is the standard of Liberal Democrat discourse then I despair for the parties future prospects.

I suggest you follow the advice of Lady Clegg

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... ly-6904236

Miriam González Durántez
International trade lawyer

"We must start by accepting that we pro-Europeans have failed comprehensively. Brexit is clearly what British people want, because they voted for it four times: in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2019.

With victory comes accountability. Every single time things go south because of the hard Brexit negotiated by Boris Johnson, the Conservative party should be made accountable for it – not because of a sense of ‘I told you so’, but because there will be opportunities in the near future to revisit the relationship with the EU. Just look at the pressure for another referendum in Scotland only six years after the previous one – who would have thought? And certainly negotiating a much closer relationship with the EU will be possible in four years time, after the next general election.

When those opportunities come, people should have a clear view on the effect that every aspect of this hard Brexit has had on their lives. The main lesson from the failure of the anti-Brexit campaign is that noise serves for nothing unless it translates into political action. No matter how frustrated we may be with our political systems, change is only possible through politics.

If we really want to change things we all need to spend less time demonstrating and venting anger and outrage in social media and much more time campaigning and canvassing. The issue is whether all those who dedicate themselves to showing outrage and anger have the capacity to accept the compromises that politics require."

And also that of Frances Barber

"Constantly attacking Brexiters for being thick and bigoted was a catastrophe. You never win anyone round to an argument by abusing them."

Are people on here campaigning and shaping future debate, or just taking the piss out of racist morons?

[shereblue]

Fair point. Although you seem to see "the electorate" as Red Wall types. I actually respect the non racist majority but they are now insincerely pandered to because of their disproportionate influence on the outcome of GEs.

Lib Dem? I'm happy in a Blair to Clarke (Ken) spectrum but more liberal than either but enjoy being challenged by different thinking.

Do bear in mind, I neither expect nor hope to influence political change and am on no mission to change thinking. There's bantz, there's prejudice based on environment and upbringing and migration and globalism are debateable.

However my contempt for those likely to be influenced by Dutch Customs officials stories, let alone Breaking Point posters is unqualified. And at its greatest for those who seek to stoke such discord

Who's been influenced? It's Daily Mail clickbait. I haven't seen any twitter storms.

I don't know who exactly is influenced by it but if your job is clickbait and you want to keep it I imagine there must be a fair few clickers.

Here's the Mail's spin on the gentle Dutch customs officers:

Holland, the drug smugglers’ paradise (but don’t bring your ham sandwiches!) As Dutch cops focus on truckers’ snacks, gangs are turning the country into a narco-state with illicit operations worth billions
Dutch port officials made headlines for seizing a sandwich under Brexit rules
But Dutch shipping terminals are notorious hubs for drug smuggling gangs
Cocaine trade is worth billions with illegal drugs often hidden in fruit shipments
The drug trade has led to gang violence and money-laundering in Amsterdam

[bimboman]

The Mail is out of date, Antwerp is by far the bigger drug port right now. It’s horrendous.

[message #2527204]

Fair point. Although you seem to see "the electorate" as Red Wall types. I actually respect the non racist majority but they are now insincerely pandered to because of their disproportionate influence on the outcome of GEs.

Lib Dem? I'm happy in a Blair to Clarke (Ken) spectrum but more liberal than either but enjoy being challenged by different thinking.

Do bear in mind, I neither expect nor hope to influence political change and am on no mission to change thinking. There's bantz, there's prejudice based on environment and upbringing and migration and globalism are debateable.

However my contempt for those likely to be influenced by Dutch Customs officials stories, let alone Breaking Point posters is unqualified. And at its greatest for those who seek to stoke such discord

Who's been influenced? It's Daily Mail clickbait. I haven't seen any twitter storms.

I don't know who exactly is influenced by it but if your job is clickbait and you want to keep it I imagine there must be a fair few clickers.

Here's the Mail's spin on the gentle Dutch customs officers:

Holland, the drug smugglers’ paradise (but don’t bring your ham sandwiches!) As Dutch cops focus on truckers’ snacks, gangs are turning the country into a narco-state with illicit operations worth billions
Dutch port officials made headlines for seizing a sandwich under Brexit rules
But Dutch shipping terminals are notorious hubs for drug smuggling gangs
Cocaine trade is worth billions with illegal drugs often hidden in fruit shipments
The drug trade has led to gang violence and money-laundering in Amsterdam

Mail online has gone full yank clickbait. They don't even bother to use proper english spelling and grammar.

[message #2527204]

Ok, I understand your point. But in this case we don’t know the committees and advisers political persuasion or how they voted on Brexit.

I don't think it matters, all the matters is how the public perceive them.

Following on from the above point. If I was a serious remainer I would be having a word with the dutch police as if they think that stories about Beef and Ham Sandwiches being confiscated at the border is going to help the Remain cause then they are very much mistaken. I can guarantee that the British Public are not going "The EU confiscated our Sandwiches, we must rejoin!"

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... it-6897860

Breximoaners are racists who are fed a daily ration of "red meat" stories with little connection to reality.

If you compare the good humour of the Dutch customs officials with US customs officials in applying the same regulations, you'd be rushing back into the bosom of your loving Euro neighbours.

Where I do agree with the racists is that controlling one's borders does have a role. The maskless Customs officials at LHR on Covid Island are a modern Maginot Line.

If this is the standard of Liberal Democrat discourse then I despair for the parties future prospects.

I suggest you follow the advice of Lady Clegg

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... ly-6904236

Miriam González Durántez
International trade lawyer

"We must start by accepting that we pro-Europeans have failed comprehensively. Brexit is clearly what British people want, because they voted for it four times: in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2019.

With victory comes accountability. Every single time things go south because of the hard Brexit negotiated by Boris Johnson, the Conservative party should be made accountable for it – not because of a sense of ‘I told you so’, but because there will be opportunities in the near future to revisit the relationship with the EU. Just look at the pressure for another referendum in Scotland only six years after the previous one – who would have thought? And certainly negotiating a much closer relationship with the EU will be possible in four years time, after the next general election.

When those opportunities come, people should have a clear view on the effect that every aspect of this hard Brexit has had on their lives. The main lesson from the failure of the anti-Brexit campaign is that noise serves for nothing unless it translates into political action. No matter how frustrated we may be with our political systems, change is only possible through politics.

If we really want to change things we all need to spend less time demonstrating and venting anger and outrage in social media and much more time campaigning and canvassing. The issue is whether all those who dedicate themselves to showing outrage and anger have the capacity to accept the compromises that politics require."

And also that of Frances Barber

"Constantly attacking Brexiters for being thick and bigoted was a catastrophe. You never win anyone round to an argument by abusing them."

Are people on here campaigning and shaping future debate, or just taking the piss out of racist morons?

Thick northern racist morons, please.

Love the 'Briximoaner' neologism ... so crap and inappropriate, it's actually quite good.

[YOYO]

Interesting fact. UK police / security department looked up the EU SIS2 security database 600 million times in 2019. That access is gone now.

[shereblue]

Fair point. Although you seem to see "the electorate" as Red Wall types. I actually respect the non racist majority but they are now insincerely pandered to because of their disproportionate influence on the outcome of GEs.

Lib Dem? I'm happy in a Blair to Clarke (Ken) spectrum but more liberal than either but enjoy being challenged by different thinking.

Do bear in mind, I neither expect nor hope to influence political change and am on no mission to change thinking. There's bantz, there's prejudice based on environment and upbringing and migration and globalism are debateable.

However my contempt for those likely to be influenced by Dutch Customs officials stories, let alone Breaking Point posters is unqualified. And at its greatest for those who seek to stoke such discord

Good point. I come on here because I work in a remain heavy industry and workplace so can;t really discuss at work. My family is split 4;2 in favour of leave and discussing with family can lead to arguments. Far better to discuss on here!

It is indeed a fun release from the real world - or mine, at least.

Pre-Referendum, I gave my reasons for favouring Remain at work. I listened to opposing views.
It was novel, interesting and normal. Since then, the issue has acquired baggage and, like party politics, has become a topic better avoided or at least only alluded to in quite matter of fact tones.

Most of my friends and family are Remainers. In very small groups, we will share a good re-moan but I am aware that a few Brexiteer friends can find that all a bit much. So it's also decent just to hold back.

I'm on probation about generalising but my experience in France is that political debate, though equally heated, is somehow taken on board and more socially acceptable.

[mdaclarke]

Isn't twitter a remain echo chamber?

Agreed and long may it continue as it leads remain/left/progressives/woke/MetropolitanLiberalElite to believe that they are representative of the country when in reality they are not (as seen by 2019 election)

[DragsterDriver]

However much brexiters are derided by remainers regarding unicorns and believing lies fornthe economic effect of brexit, the exact same level of ignorance is displayed on the remainer side re ‘things will be worse and more expensive for the uk consumer’. There is always this assumption that joe public will simply end up paying more, not realising that there are certain price elasticities and alternatives available for any product or service.
I for one am looking forward to buying more food from outside the Eu that will sometimes be cheaper and just as good quality as the overpriced EU equivalent , ditto cars etc

There may even be a backlash against french cars or Irish beef or french cheese by certain sections of the Uk public, once lockdown ends.

Brits on food eh

Anti-elitist Brexitists bragging about eating in Michelin starred restaurants one minute and blind to the simple benefits of quality FRESH ingredients on tap.

Always looking for a silly, nationalist edge.

Fact is Brexit is fucki ng fresh food supply chains - which benefit all Europeans.

Brits in choosing "sovereignty" over decent food and close trading relations with their neighbours.

Where are you from?

France.