OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by message #2527204 »

Sawtooth the Beaver wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:42 pm Image

Moving on from the slightly creepy man-love...
The whole of Kent as a free port? Interesting idea
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:50 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:30 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:23 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:15 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:01 pm

He was the minister, not the civil servant. He's also a wonderful looking man, with great hair and a neck the size of Halfpenny's in his youth. 3rd Dan Karate kid too.

Being a minister isn't an excuse for being ignorant. It wouldn't be in a civil servant with any responsibility for the area either. People entitled to rant on with no idea what they're talking about should be limited to those who queue outside Weatherspoons looking to take the sobriety out of their day once serving time comes around

Snob
Well yes, but not because I think those with a responsibility for an area should have some idea what they're doing.
Surely he did after he learnt of the extent of UKs trade through Dover?
Better late than never is inadequate as a standard
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Sawtooth the Beaver »

Given the probable traffic disruption, will they name the new Capital Stiltonbridge Wells?
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

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piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:54 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:50 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:30 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:23 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:15 pm


Being a minister isn't an excuse for being ignorant. It wouldn't be in a civil servant with any responsibility for the area either. People entitled to rant on with no idea what they're talking about should be limited to those who queue outside Weatherspoons looking to take the sobriety out of their day once serving time comes around

Snob
Well yes, but not because I think those with a responsibility for an area should have some idea what they're doing.
Surely he did after he learnt of the extent of UKs trade through Dover?
Better late than never is inadequate as a standard
I'll be sure to tell my kids.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

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piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:36 pm The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
We have a GPS system
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by SaintK »

piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:36 pm The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
This'll be fun for those stout Men of Kent
BREAKING NEWS:

In order to simplify operation of the ANPR system and permit document checking, all traffic heading to the channel crossings in Kent will be required to use the M25 clockwise and to halt at the Dartford crossing to show passports and Kent Access Permits.

In order to simplify this process further, all internal traffic will be required to travel anti-clockwise on the M25.

Vehicle starting in Kent but heading for Europe will be required to complete a full circuit of the M25 unless they have received authorisation for a Kent Regional Access Permit
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Sawtooth the Beaver »

"our own"
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:37 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:36 pm The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
We have a GPS system
What the UK’s £500m investment in the crappy bankrupt OneWeb satellite company? Are you telling the Tory government made another bad judgement?
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by message #2527204 »

YOYO wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:12 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:37 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:36 pm The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
We have a GPS system
What the UK’s £500m investment in the crappy bankrupt OneWeb satellite company? Are you telling the Tory government made another bad judgement?
The yank one. We're still on speaking terms with them, whereas the EU is in negotiations with them and about to leave NATO, which will cost them a few billion for gallileo plus the EU defence force.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:40 pm
YOYO wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:12 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:37 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:36 pm The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
We have a GPS system
What the UK’s £500m investment in the crappy bankrupt OneWeb satellite company? Are you telling the Tory government made another bad judgement?
The yank one. We're still on speaking terms with them, whereas the EU is in negotiations with them and about to leave NATO, which will cost them a few billion for gallileo plus the EU defence force.
There does seem to be scope for the septics to give us access to their GPS system, though not as yet to their next gen. Where that leaves us isn't clear. And it leaves us dependent on the US which has certain differences to taking back control, it's much closer to giving away more control than we used to have, certainly anyone who was making an argument Brexit was about sovereignty might be a little cross Dom and Boris are so strongly undermining their argument
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AlanBengio
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by AlanBengio »

Boris is done.
The mere shadow of himself pre-Covid 19, is ready to be roasted by his party, as the tradition claims.
Before or after Christmas?

Edit - let me cancel this rant that it may be that not everyone concerned is still aware of that you never know
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

OneWeb is now part British / Indian owned company. No longer US owned even though the satellite manufacturing and majority of the jobs are based in the US. The British government and Indian telecoms billionaire Sunil Mittal Bharti both invested £400 in the company. Both own a 45% share each in the company.

Looks like it was a dud investment for Britain at least. Not much good for GPS or as a military grade satellite navigational system. Maybe works for providing Internet, especially for helping provide signals in regions of the world that can’t benefit from current high orbiting satellites.

“Officials at the UK Space Agency told the Government that investing in OneWeb to build a rival to the Galileo system presents major difficulties because its low-earth-orbit satellites may be unable to provide accurate location signals.”

“Their low orbit means they pass over the earth’s surface much more quickly than traditional satellites, making it harder to provide geolocation data accurate enough for the purposes the government is eyeing, such as in military systems.“
If you want to replace GPS for military-grade systems, where you need encrypted, secure signals that are precise to centimetres, I’m not sure you can do that on satellites as small as OneWeb’s.”

Pretty astonishing. :shock:
“The government failed to consult its most senior scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, or the Ministry of Defence (MoD), before embarking on the controversial acquisition. The department for business pushed through the deal despite objections by its most senior civil servant and claims that the government may never see a return on the investment.

“Rather than being selected for the quality of the offering, Thorne suggested the investment was made to suit “a nationalist agenda”. OneWeb is nominally a UK business, with a UK HQ and spectrum rights registered in the UK through Ofcom.”
Last edited by YOYO on Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by camroc1 »

You've heard that the new permit to enter Kent will be known as the Kermit ?
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lilyw
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by lilyw »

bimboman wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:20 am
The Sun God wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:12 am
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:19 am
The Sun God wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:08 am Just say Dominic Raab on SKY News...... He is one thick gobshite.
He's not thick.
We have done this before mate. He is a fúcking moron.... and a disingenuous/lying one at that.


He’s more intelligent than you or I......

And doing a good job in a bad government.
The magic Bimbot intelligence comparison test, neither party need be present or actually take part. I think that it uses smileys to generate a result.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:38 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:40 pm
YOYO wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:12 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:37 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:36 pm The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
We have a GPS system
What the UK’s £500m investment in the crappy bankrupt OneWeb satellite company? Are you telling the Tory government made another bad judgement?
The yank one. We're still on speaking terms with them, whereas the EU is in negotiations with them and about to leave NATO, which will cost them a few billion for gallileo plus the EU defence force.
There does seem to be scope for the septics to give us access to their GPS system, though not as yet to their next gen. Where that leaves us isn't clear. And it leaves us dependent on the US which has certain differences to taking back control, it's much closer to giving away more control than we used to have, certainly anyone who was making an argument Brexit was about sovereignty might be a little cross Dom and Boris are so strongly undermining their argument
The United State of American & Great Britain on the way.

Britain has already aligned its two aircraft carriers into the US navy more or less.
The shiny new one HMS Queen Elizabeth is being stacked with US and UK jets and partaking US navy exercises, making it an interchange possibility with the US navy.
Last edited by YOYO on Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by lilyw »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:40 pm
YOYO wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:12 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:37 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:36 pm The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
We have a GPS system
What the UK’s £500m investment in the crappy bankrupt OneWeb satellite company? Are you telling the Tory government made another bad judgement?
The yank one. We're still on speaking terms with them, whereas the EU is in negotiations with them and about to leave NATO, which will cost them a few billion for gallileo plus the EU defence force.
The delusions are strong with this one
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

camroc1 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:59 pm You've heard that the new permit to enter Kent will be known as the Kermit ?
As Boris will note at our climate change conference, it's not easy being green
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by message #2527204 »

piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:38 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:40 pm
YOYO wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:12 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:37 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:36 pm The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
We have a GPS system
What the UK’s £500m investment in the crappy bankrupt OneWeb satellite company? Are you telling the Tory government made another bad judgement?
The yank one. We're still on speaking terms with them, whereas the EU is in negotiations with them and about to leave NATO, which will cost them a few billion for gallileo plus the EU defence force.
There does seem to be scope for the septics to give us access to their GPS system, though not as yet to their next gen. Where that leaves us isn't clear. And it leaves us dependent on the US which has certain differences to taking back control, it's much closer to giving away more control than we used to have, certainly anyone who was making an argument Brexit was about sovereignty might be a little cross Dom and Boris are so strongly undermining their argument
Project fear 101.
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Leinster in London
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Leinster in London »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:40 pm
YOYO wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:12 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:37 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:36 pm The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
We have a GPS system
What the UK’s £500m investment in the crappy bankrupt OneWeb satellite company? Are you telling the Tory government made another bad judgement?
The yank one. We're still on speaking terms with them, whereas the EU is in negotiations with them and about to leave NATO, which will cost them a few billion for gallileo plus the EU defence force.
The EU is not a member of NATO and never has been.

Once again showing your ignorance re sovereignty.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by SaintK »

Leinster in London wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:27 am
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:40 pm
YOYO wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:12 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:37 pm
piquant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:36 pm The border town just over the Kent border to be built for all the new admin and what have you is to be named Cobnut City. Obviously on the approach or drive away from the new metropolis the GPS will advise of Cobnut City limits (or it will if we ever get a GPS system)
We have a GPS system
What the UK’s £500m investment in the crappy bankrupt OneWeb satellite company? Are you telling the Tory government made another bad judgement?
The yank one. We're still on speaking terms with them, whereas the EU is in negotiations with them and about to leave NATO, which will cost them a few billion for gallileo plus the EU defence force.
The EU is not a member of NATO and never has been.

Once again showing your ignorance re sovereignty.
Message has never been one for letting his ignorance on the subject get in the way of his posting
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by RodneyRegis »

message #2527204 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:00 am
piquant wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:41 am The push to rejoin is only just getting started. Though sadly I suspect it'll spend a few years going backwards even if it does a good job. Brexit has created in the UK the biggest/strongest pro EU membership group in any EU nation, but a fair whack of that is just the backlash to Brexit and will surely get whittled away at, some people will move onto other 'cause that's just what tends to happen, though I doubt we're going to see Brexit proving a success. If Brexit really isn't a success and isn't able to blame all their failings on Covid the whittling away of the rejoin movement could end much sooner than I'd anticipate, and the demographics are on the side of rejoin too.
Interesting argument, though the demographic one is open to question. People won't remain teenagers forever.
And lots of people who were remainers won't really care in a few years. There will be a number of hard-liners in parliament and in pressure groups, but most people will just get on with their lives and find something else to whine about.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

RodneyRegis wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:03 am
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:00 am
piquant wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:41 am The push to rejoin is only just getting started. Though sadly I suspect it'll spend a few years going backwards even if it does a good job. Brexit has created in the UK the biggest/strongest pro EU membership group in any EU nation, but a fair whack of that is just the backlash to Brexit and will surely get whittled away at, some people will move onto other 'cause that's just what tends to happen, though I doubt we're going to see Brexit proving a success. If Brexit really isn't a success and isn't able to blame all their failings on Covid the whittling away of the rejoin movement could end much sooner than I'd anticipate, and the demographics are on the side of rejoin too.
Interesting argument, though the demographic one is open to question. People won't remain teenagers forever.
And lots of people who were remainers won't really care in a few years. There will be a number of hard-liners in parliament and in pressure groups, but most people will just get on with their lives and find something else to whine about.
This is entirely possible, but it was the situation leave was once in so it's already known change can be both sought and effected. What will really make the case to rejoin hard to sell is Brexit going well, and there at least those of us hoping to rejoin can show some gratitude, Brexit and those pushing it have no plan, no clue, billions are being poured down the drain and we haven't even got to the bad parts yet
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by clementinfrance »

RodneyRegis wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:03 am
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:00 am
piquant wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:41 am The push to rejoin is only just getting started. Though sadly I suspect it'll spend a few years going backwards even if it does a good job. Brexit has created in the UK the biggest/strongest pro EU membership group in any EU nation, but a fair whack of that is just the backlash to Brexit and will surely get whittled away at, some people will move onto other 'cause that's just what tends to happen, though I doubt we're going to see Brexit proving a success. If Brexit really isn't a success and isn't able to blame all their failings on Covid the whittling away of the rejoin movement could end much sooner than I'd anticipate, and the demographics are on the side of rejoin too.
Interesting argument, though the demographic one is open to question. People won't remain teenagers forever.
And lots of people who were remainers won't really care in a few years. There will be a number of hard-liners in parliament and in pressure groups, but most people will just get on with their lives and find something else to whine about.
Just like those pesky Eurosceptics did...

Oh wait.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by RodneyRegis »

Well yeah, it was hardly top of the agenda for 50 years was it.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by message #2527204 »

piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:40 am
RodneyRegis wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:03 am
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:00 am
piquant wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:41 am The push to rejoin is only just getting started. Though sadly I suspect it'll spend a few years going backwards even if it does a good job. Brexit has created in the UK the biggest/strongest pro EU membership group in any EU nation, but a fair whack of that is just the backlash to Brexit and will surely get whittled away at, some people will move onto other 'cause that's just what tends to happen, though I doubt we're going to see Brexit proving a success. If Brexit really isn't a success and isn't able to blame all their failings on Covid the whittling away of the rejoin movement could end much sooner than I'd anticipate, and the demographics are on the side of rejoin too.
Interesting argument, though the demographic one is open to question. People won't remain teenagers forever.
And lots of people who were remainers won't really care in a few years. There will be a number of hard-liners in parliament and in pressure groups, but most people will just get on with their lives and find something else to whine about.
This is entirely possible, but it was the situation leave was once in so it's already known change can be both sought and effected. What will really make the case to rejoin hard to sell is Brexit going well, and there at least those of us hoping to rejoin can show some gratitude, Brexit and those pushing it have no plan, no clue, billions are being poured down the drain and we haven't even got to the bad parts yet
Difference being that the first time we were sold membership, it was to join a common market not a country. Harder sell to give away sovereignty to the germans. Once bitten ... etc
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:14 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:40 am
RodneyRegis wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:03 am
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:00 am
piquant wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:41 am The push to rejoin is only just getting started. Though sadly I suspect it'll spend a few years going backwards even if it does a good job. Brexit has created in the UK the biggest/strongest pro EU membership group in any EU nation, but a fair whack of that is just the backlash to Brexit and will surely get whittled away at, some people will move onto other 'cause that's just what tends to happen, though I doubt we're going to see Brexit proving a success. If Brexit really isn't a success and isn't able to blame all their failings on Covid the whittling away of the rejoin movement could end much sooner than I'd anticipate, and the demographics are on the side of rejoin too.
Interesting argument, though the demographic one is open to question. People won't remain teenagers forever.
And lots of people who were remainers won't really care in a few years. There will be a number of hard-liners in parliament and in pressure groups, but most people will just get on with their lives and find something else to whine about.
This is entirely possible, but it was the situation leave was once in so it's already known change can be both sought and effected. What will really make the case to rejoin hard to sell is Brexit going well, and there at least those of us hoping to rejoin can show some gratitude, Brexit and those pushing it have no plan, no clue, billions are being poured down the drain and we haven't even got to the bad parts yet
Difference being that the first time we were sold membership, it was to join a common market not a country. Harder sell to give away sovereignty to the germans. Once bitten ... etc
if it's a harder sell so be it. There are other things which could make it harder, the loss of the rebate for instance.

but if we can show the trade deals are no improvement, migration hasn't changed, we actually ceded our sovereignty by becoming so dependent on the USA it's less control than we had before, then these things will make it easier. and too one assumes we'll be recovering from pandemic, trying to plot a route out of debt, struggling with less access to our most important markets and still with an ageing population having never had a plan to pay for retirement, so the economics will need to improve enormously just to have people feel like they're treading water
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by message #2527204 »

piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:22 am
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:14 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:40 am
RodneyRegis wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:03 am
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:00 am

Interesting argument, though the demographic one is open to question. People won't remain teenagers forever.
And lots of people who were remainers won't really care in a few years. There will be a number of hard-liners in parliament and in pressure groups, but most people will just get on with their lives and find something else to whine about.
This is entirely possible, but it was the situation leave was once in so it's already known change can be both sought and effected. What will really make the case to rejoin hard to sell is Brexit going well, and there at least those of us hoping to rejoin can show some gratitude, Brexit and those pushing it have no plan, no clue, billions are being poured down the drain and we haven't even got to the bad parts yet
Difference being that the first time we were sold membership, it was to join a common market not a country. Harder sell to give away sovereignty to the germans. Once bitten ... etc
if it's a harder sell so be it. There are other things which could make it harder, the loss of the rebate for instance.

but if we can show the trade deals are no improvement, migration hasn't changed, we actually ceded our sovereignty by becoming so dependent on the USA it's less control than we had before, then these things will make it easier. and too one assumes we'll be recovering from pandemic, trying to plot a route out of debt, struggling with less access to our most important markets and still with an ageing population having never had a plan to pay for retirement, so the economics will need to improve enormously just to have people feel like they're treading water
Europe will have similar issues.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:48 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:22 am
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:14 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:40 am
RodneyRegis wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:03 am

And lots of people who were remainers won't really care in a few years. There will be a number of hard-liners in parliament and in pressure groups, but most people will just get on with their lives and find something else to whine about.
This is entirely possible, but it was the situation leave was once in so it's already known change can be both sought and effected. What will really make the case to rejoin hard to sell is Brexit going well, and there at least those of us hoping to rejoin can show some gratitude, Brexit and those pushing it have no plan, no clue, billions are being poured down the drain and we haven't even got to the bad parts yet
Difference being that the first time we were sold membership, it was to join a common market not a country. Harder sell to give away sovereignty to the germans. Once bitten ... etc
if it's a harder sell so be it. There are other things which could make it harder, the loss of the rebate for instance.

but if we can show the trade deals are no improvement, migration hasn't changed, we actually ceded our sovereignty by becoming so dependent on the USA it's less control than we had before, then these things will make it easier. and too one assumes we'll be recovering from pandemic, trying to plot a route out of debt, struggling with less access to our most important markets and still with an ageing population having never had a plan to pay for retirement, so the economics will need to improve enormously just to have people feel like they're treading water
Europe will have similar issues.
So we've left spending billions of pounds in the process to be many billions of pounds a year worse off not in the name of sovereignty but to have similar issues. Sunlit uplands here we come
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

The trashy elements of Brit media will continue to attack the EU for years to come. The rancid dogs will continue spew their lies and hate on social media to try and unsettle the EU. Leaving on their own their won’t be enough.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by message #2527204 »

piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:06 am
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:48 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:22 am
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:14 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:40 am

This is entirely possible, but it was the situation leave was once in so it's already known change can be both sought and effected. What will really make the case to rejoin hard to sell is Brexit going well, and there at least those of us hoping to rejoin can show some gratitude, Brexit and those pushing it have no plan, no clue, billions are being poured down the drain and we haven't even got to the bad parts yet
Difference being that the first time we were sold membership, it was to join a common market not a country. Harder sell to give away sovereignty to the germans. Once bitten ... etc
if it's a harder sell so be it. There are other things which could make it harder, the loss of the rebate for instance.

but if we can show the trade deals are no improvement, migration hasn't changed, we actually ceded our sovereignty by becoming so dependent on the USA it's less control than we had before, then these things will make it easier. and too one assumes we'll be recovering from pandemic, trying to plot a route out of debt, struggling with less access to our most important markets and still with an ageing population having never had a plan to pay for retirement, so the economics will need to improve enormously just to have people feel like they're treading water
Europe will have similar issues.
So we've left spending billions of pounds in the process to be many billions of pounds a year worse off not in the name of sovereignty but to have similar issues. Sunlit uplands here we come
It was always going to be a struggle to even attain the status quo. As I've said, it was never about economic issues, it was about independence. Try selling the economic benefits of being part of the UK to the Irish.
Southernscot
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Southernscot »

message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:17 am [quote="piquant " post_id=6685508 time=<a href="tel:1601028370">1601028370</a> user_id=249744]
[quote="message #2527204 " post_id=6685503 time=<a href="tel:1601027280">1601027280</a> user_id=8515]
[quote="piquant " post_id=6685479 time=<a href="tel:1601025737">1601025737</a> user_id=249744]
[quote="message #2527204 " post_id=6685471 time=<a href="tel:1601025274">1601025274</a> user_id=8515]
[quote="piquant " post_id=6685448 time=<a href="tel:1601023246">1601023246</a> user_id=249744]


This is entirely possible, but it was the situation leave was once in so it's already known change can be both sought and effected. What will really make the case to rejoin hard to sell is Brexit going well, and there at least those of us hoping to rejoin can show some gratitude, Brexit and those pushing it have no plan, no clue, billions are being poured down the drain and we haven't even got to the bad parts yet
Difference being that the first time we were sold membership, it was to join a common market not a country. Harder sell to give away sovereignty to the germans. Once bitten ... etc
[/quote]

if it's a harder sell so be it. There are other things which could make it harder, the loss of the rebate for instance.

but if we can show the trade deals are no improvement, migration hasn't changed, we actually ceded our sovereignty by becoming so dependent on the USA it's less control than we had before, then these things will make it easier. and too one assumes we'll be recovering from pandemic, trying to plot a route out of debt, struggling with less access to our most important markets and still with an ageing population having never had a plan to pay for retirement, so the economics will need to improve enormously just to have people feel like they're treading water
[/quote]

Europe will have similar issues.
[/quote]

So we've left spending billions of pounds in the process to be many billions of pounds a year worse off not in the name of sovereignty but to have similar issues. Sunlit uplands here we come
[/quote]

It was always going to be a struggle to even attain the status quo. As I've said, it was never about economic issues, it was about independence. Try selling the economic benefits of being part of the UK to the Irish.
[/quote]

£350m week for the NHS rather than sovereignty was on the side of the bus? We will hold all the cards in the negotiations when we leave etc etc - now all of the economic arguments put forward by Leave prior to referendum have proved to be absolute bollocks all we are left with fish and sovereignty. So you now attempt to move narrative to its was only ever about sovereignty- absolute bluffer...
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

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Southernscot wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:24 pm

£350m week for the NHS rather than sovereignty was on the side of the bus? We will hold all the cards in the negotiations when we leave etc etc - now all of the economic arguments put forward by Leave prior to referendum have proved to be absolute bollocks all we are left with fish and sovereignty. So you now attempt to move narrative to its was only ever about sovereignty- absolute bluffer...
Project fear had to be countered. We're doooomed, doooomed coming from Scotland etc
ChipSpike
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

Take back control was the main slogan, certainly implying the leave campaign knew what button to press. Did the remain campaign even have a slogan? Whatever it was gained no traction.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Southernscot »

message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:28 pm [quote="Southernscot " post_id=6685563 time=<a href="tel:1601033098">1601033098</a> user_id=34314]


£350m week for the NHS rather than sovereignty was on the side of the bus? We will hold all the cards in the negotiations when we leave etc etc - now all of the economic arguments put forward by Leave prior to referendum have proved to be absolute bollocks all we are left with fish and sovereignty. So you now attempt to move narrative to its was only ever about sovereignty- absolute bluffer...
Project fear had to be countered. We're doooomed, doooomed coming from Scotland etc
[/quote]

In purely economic terms we appear to move rather quickly towards fulfilling the ‘we are doomed scenario’ you appear to be endorsing it’s ok that we lied approach as we got what we wanted?
piquant
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:17 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:06 am
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:48 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:22 am
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:14 am

Difference being that the first time we were sold membership, it was to join a common market not a country. Harder sell to give away sovereignty to the germans. Once bitten ... etc
if it's a harder sell so be it. There are other things which could make it harder, the loss of the rebate for instance.

but if we can show the trade deals are no improvement, migration hasn't changed, we actually ceded our sovereignty by becoming so dependent on the USA it's less control than we had before, then these things will make it easier. and too one assumes we'll be recovering from pandemic, trying to plot a route out of debt, struggling with less access to our most important markets and still with an ageing population having never had a plan to pay for retirement, so the economics will need to improve enormously just to have people feel like they're treading water
Europe will have similar issues.
So we've left spending billions of pounds in the process to be many billions of pounds a year worse off not in the name of sovereignty but to have similar issues. Sunlit uplands here we come
It was always going to be a struggle to even attain the status quo. As I've said, it was never about economic issues, it was about independence. Try selling the economic benefits of being part of the UK to the Irish.
Only it's not about independence if we give away sovereignty on such as GPS. You could fairly say it was about the pretence of independence, just not actual independence.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by message #2527204 »

piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:35 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:17 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:06 am
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:48 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:22 am

if it's a harder sell so be it. There are other things which could make it harder, the loss of the rebate for instance.

but if we can show the trade deals are no improvement, migration hasn't changed, we actually ceded our sovereignty by becoming so dependent on the USA it's less control than we had before, then these things will make it easier. and too one assumes we'll be recovering from pandemic, trying to plot a route out of debt, struggling with less access to our most important markets and still with an ageing population having never had a plan to pay for retirement, so the economics will need to improve enormously just to have people feel like they're treading water
Europe will have similar issues.
So we've left spending billions of pounds in the process to be many billions of pounds a year worse off not in the name of sovereignty but to have similar issues. Sunlit uplands here we come
It was always going to be a struggle to even attain the status quo. As I've said, it was never about economic issues, it was about independence. Try selling the economic benefits of being part of the UK to the Irish.
Only it's not about independence if we give away sovereignty on such as GPS. You could fairly say it was about the pretence of independence, just not actual independence.
We've never had 'sovereignty' over GPS. It's an american system owned and maintained by the yanks. We wouldn't have 'sovereignty' over Galileo either .... even though we've paid billions and worked on it, and provided tech for it, for the last 20 years or so ... and will continue to pay for it in the divorce bill.
piquant
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:46 pm
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:35 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:17 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:06 am
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:48 am

Europe will have similar issues.
So we've left spending billions of pounds in the process to be many billions of pounds a year worse off not in the name of sovereignty but to have similar issues. Sunlit uplands here we come
It was always going to be a struggle to even attain the status quo. As I've said, it was never about economic issues, it was about independence. Try selling the economic benefits of being part of the UK to the Irish.
Only it's not about independence if we give away sovereignty on such as GPS. You could fairly say it was about the pretence of independence, just not actual independence.
We've never had 'sovereignty' over GPS. It's an american system owned and maintained by the yanks. We wouldn't have 'sovereignty' over Galileo either .... even though we've paid billions and worked on it, and provided tech for it, for the last 20 years or so ... and will continue to pay for it in the divorce bill.
But we were in line to have full access to the Galileo system, and instead of having that control we're ceding control. Thus Brexit isn't actually about taking back control, it's only about lying to ourselves we are.

That we lost access to Galileo was a foreseeable issue around our intent to leave a lot of what we'd paid to help build, and no we wouldn't have had sovereignty over the whole, but we would around our use of it
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

YOYO wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:11 am The trashy elements of Brit media will continue to attack the EU for years to come. The rancid dogs will continue spew their lies and hate on social media to try and unsettle the EU. Leaving on their own their won’t be enough.
:lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:22 am
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:14 am
piquant wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:40 am
RodneyRegis wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:03 am
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:00 am

Interesting argument, though the demographic one is open to question. People won't remain teenagers forever.
And lots of people who were remainers won't really care in a few years. There will be a number of hard-liners in parliament and in pressure groups, but most people will just get on with their lives and find something else to whine about.
This is entirely possible, but it was the situation leave was once in so it's already known change can be both sought and effected. What will really make the case to rejoin hard to sell is Brexit going well, and there at least those of us hoping to rejoin can show some gratitude, Brexit and those pushing it have no plan, no clue, billions are being poured down the drain and we haven't even got to the bad parts yet
Difference being that the first time we were sold membership, it was to join a common market not a country. Harder sell to give away sovereignty to the germans. Once bitten ... etc
if it's a harder sell so be it. There are other things which could make it harder, the loss of the rebate for instance.

but if we can show the trade deals are no improvement, migration hasn't changed, we actually ceded our sovereignty by becoming so dependent on the USA it's less control than we had before, then these things will make it easier. and too one assumes we'll be recovering from pandemic, trying to plot a route out of debt, struggling with less access to our most important markets and still with an ageing population having never had a plan to pay for retirement, so the economics will need to improve enormously just to have people feel like they're treading water
What sort of time scale are you talking about
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