Planet Rugby Forum

Wilderbeast wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:Aaron Smith has copped plenty of criticism on this forum by AB fans, but he was sensational last night. That was a masterclass of 9 play. It certainly helps when the forwards man up.

Yes, Aaron Smith can crumble if his forwards aren’t giving him what he needs but with a good platform he is devastating. I reckon that’s why TJP gets the bench. He’s a scrappy bastard who performs well when the team is going backwards (whereas Weber is more like Smith).

tubbyj wrote:

Wilderbeast wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:Aaron Smith has copped plenty of criticism on this forum by AB fans, but he was sensational last night. That was a masterclass of 9 play. It certainly helps when the forwards man up.

Yes, Aaron Smith can crumble if his forwards aren’t giving him what he needs but with a good platform he is devastating. I reckon that’s why TJP gets the bench. He’s a scrappy bastard who performs well when the team is going backwards (whereas Weber is more like Smith).

I watched the replay this morning and I thought TJ Perenara was one of the All Blacks who did not impress. He is very error prone and seems to be over awed by the pressure of the bigger matches. Wouldn't mind Brad Weber getting the bench role myself but I guess that boat has sailed.

Toro wrote:

Spoiler: show

RuggaBugga wrote:

Toro wrote:

Spoiler: show

That's a mint photo.

naki wrote:On reflection this was probably the best play-offs performance of the last 3 tournaments for the ABs.

Man-for-man they lack the experience and in some positions to quality of those 2011 and 2015 sides, and they were coming up against a higher ranked side than any of the other teams had to face. Have to credit the coaching staff for manufacturing this

Ted. wrote:

capt hurricane wrote:

Demilich wrote:

capt hurricane wrote:

Demilich wrote:Not sure why anyone has an issue with people disparaging an organisation for promoting an employee found guilty of domestic violence.

Sure, "they are assisting with his rehabilitation and improvement as a human being" is an acceptable approach, but so is "why are you still employing a cowardly wife-beater in a very public role that will see him idolised by impressionable children (again)?".

As an All Black fan, I myself prefer the latter approach.

It's hardly a cunt of an attitude.

The issue of domestic violence is a very emotive one, for very good reason, but we are hardly going to solve the problem if the knee jerk reaction is to immediatly ostracise and marginalise anyone on the basis of past behaviour, especially when than behaviour has been addressed, and the people involved (both parties), have clearly moved on and are in a much better space. You cannot characterise someone as irredeemable when they have clearly worked very hard to redeem themselves.

However, if it was to happen again, I would have no qualms in seeing the perpetrator dropped from the team.

Given Reece's case in that alcohol was involved, and that it appears both parties were under the influence of drink at the time, plus the fact that the judge granted a discharge without conviction following a guilty plea indicates that all parties were keen to see rehabilitation as the best outcome rather than chucking a young man on to the scrap heap.

Is it a messy situation? Yes it is, but surely the situation we have here is the preferred outcome!

Sure. But if someone is of the opinion that a cowardly, bullying domestic violence act against a woman/child should preclude that person from being promoted to the highest honours in their profession within a year, then expressing that is not being a "cunt" - it is also an entirely reasonable view to take. It certainly isn't the kind of opinion that should have shrill little bitches "hoping you don't have a good life".

And "discharged without conviction" for a sports-person is not an indication of anything. A team mate of mine was brutally beaten by a local kick-boxer. He was left permanently hearing-impaired (legally deaf). Destroyed his career. Destroyed his relationship. His attacker was discharged with out conviction, as it would have affected his opportunities to travel to tournaments. My teammate certainly wasn't "keen to see rehabilitation as the best outcome" - he wanted the bloke to get the prison time he deserved. And let's not forget "Kermadec Crunchy-Wasp" and his multiple discharged convictions and charges as the "unnamed NZ sportsman" (despite already being a convicted killer).

I do take umbrage at the "worked hard to redeem" them self claim that get's thrown around in such circumstances. He has worked hard at playing rugby. Playing rugby to a high level isn't "redeeming" oneself from domestic violence - it's just being allowed to continue the career he had previously. It's the same thing that happens in league - "he's been through adversity and fought through it and look at him now, he's playing Origin/for the All Blacks". No - the person isn't a victim, they have just been allowed to continue their desired profession and excelled at it - that is not redemption. It's possible in the background he has worked hard on it - though I haven't seem or heard of him using his new-found high profile to do anything to promote anti-domestic violence causes. Or alcohol-awareness. So effectively he's gone one year without (being caught in) a domestic violence incidence. If he wasn't a high profile sports-person, would any body be impressed?

If he was an employee of any number of businesses/professions he would have been given his marching orders and forced to "work as a labourer for the rest of his life".

So yes, thinking it is good that he is being given the chance to continue his rugby career, in the hopes it will provide him a stable environment and improve his behavior is a perfectly acceptable line of thinking. But so is thinking he deserves to suffer the consequences of his actions, as most other people who made a "mistake" in getting caught being violent towards innocents would.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what earl said/implied (even if it was just intended as a bitter troll).

LIke I said it's avery emotive subject. For what it's worth, I think that kickboxer should have had the book thrown at him, however, I don;t think his situation should be compared with Reece's situation, it's a long bow to draw there mate!

I think Reece's act has been inflated in some peoples minds. He neither bullied nor beat his partner. Apparently the bullying was from the other direction and that is the mitigating circumstance that probably saved his bacon, that and the fact he didn't strike her.

Having said all that, I am still uncomfortable with the his elevation to Super Rugby let alone the ABs and of course, if we're honest with ourselves, conflicted.

The Native wrote:As an All Black fan that was an awesome result. Very surprising as I thought it was going to be a real arm wrestle with only a margin of five to seven points.

Not the result a neutral would want, whether it be the winner or the margin and not at all indicative of the good work the Schmidt and Best have done for Ireland rugby.

yoda wrote:

UncleFB wrote:

trapper wrote:

brat wrote:

HANDSOMECAKE wrote:Scott Barrett is in finer form than retallick. Barrett is gonna be some player

Thought that as well- want him on the field more but can’t drop anyone from the starting line up

Think he has the potential to be the best barrett

Ardie to 7
Barrett 6
PT to the bench.

Sorted.

You really need to watch what Cane does when he's on the field a bit more closely.

This us a slightly moot point given that Ardie will be the ABs first choice No.8 next year ... but would love to see S. Barrett with a decent run at 6

UncleFB wrote:

Ted wrote:

Capt Hurricane wrote:

Demilich wrote:Sure. But if someone is of the opinion that a cowardly, bullying domestic violence act against a woman/child should preclude that person from being promoted to the highest honours in their profession within a year, then expressing that is not being a "cunt" - it is also an entirely reasonable view to take. It certainly isn't the kind of opinion that should have shrill little bitches "hoping you don't have a good life".

And "discharged without conviction" for a sports-person is not an indication of anything. A team mate of mine was brutally beaten by a local kick-boxer. He was left permanently hearing-impaired (legally deaf). Destroyed his career. Destroyed his relationship. His attacker was discharged with out conviction, as it would have affected his opportunities to travel to tournaments. My teammate certainly wasn't "keen to see rehabilitation as the best outcome" - he wanted the bloke to get the prison time he deserved. And let's not forget "Kermadec Crunchy-Wasp" and his multiple discharged convictions and charges as the "unnamed NZ sportsman" (despite already being a convicted killer).

I do take umbrage at the "worked hard to redeem" them self claim that get's thrown around in such circumstances. He has worked hard at playing rugby. Playing rugby to a high level isn't "redeeming" oneself from domestic violence - it's just being allowed to continue the career he had previously. It's the same thing that happens in league - "he's been through adversity and fought through it and look at him now, he's playing Origin/for the All Blacks". No - the person isn't a victim, they have just been allowed to continue their desired profession and excelled at it - that is not redemption. It's possible in the background he has worked hard on it - though I haven't seem or heard of him using his new-found high profile to do anything to promote anti-domestic violence causes. Or alcohol-awareness. So effectively he's gone one year without (being caught in) a domestic violence incidence. If he wasn't a high profile sports-person, would any body be impressed?

If he was an employee of any number of businesses/professions he would have been given his marching orders and forced to "work as a labourer for the rest of his life".

So yes, thinking it is good that he is being given the chance to continue his rugby career, in the hopes it will provide him a stable environment and improve his behavior is a perfectly acceptable line of thinking. But so is thinking he deserves to suffer the consequences of his actions, as most other people who made a "mistake" in getting caught being violent towards innocents would.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what earl said/implied (even if it was just intended as a bitter troll).

LIke I said it's avery emotive subject. For what it's worth, I think that kickboxer should have had the book thrown at him, however, I don;t think his situation should be compared with Reece's situation, it's a long bow to draw there mate!

I think Reece's act has been inflated in some peoples minds. He neither bullied nor beat his partner. Apparently the bullying was from the other direction and that is the mitigating circumstance that probably saved his bacon, that and the fact he didn't strike her.

Having said all that, I am still uncomfortable with the his elevation to Super Rugby let alone the ABs and of course, if we're honest with ourselves, conflicted.

I've said it all along that I have an issue with this. Let's set aside the domestic violence he admitted to for a second and just look at all the other factors.

1. He had signed to go overseas. Clearly not wanting to be a part of NZ rugby.
2. He was banned from the Chiefs due to the incident - the Chiefs don't make a decision without NZR input.
3. His overseas contract was cancelled.
4. NZR let another franchise pick him up because they had injuries.
5. He was elevated to the All Blacks.
6. He's Fijian.
7. Combine 1 and 6 and there's no way he should ever have been selected for the ABs. I prefer the Tongan Frizell be an AB to him. He didn't want to be a NZ rugby player, he wanted to make money in NH and presumably represent his home country at the RWC.

Once he was banned from the Chiefs he should have sat out Super rugby in its entirety. Then no problem with him coming back in for 2020.

I feel dirty cheering for him so wish he'd been shit but he's actually been way better than I expected him to based on his lower level performances. He's clearly a guy who improves the levels he goes up unlike some others. His defence is unrecognisable from his Waikato NPC days.

trapper wrote:Has Moody been mentioned yet? He was bloody good last night, best game I have seen him play since the corresponding game at the last WC.

RuggaBugga wrote:

Toro wrote:

Spoiler: show

That's a mint photo.

trapper wrote:Has Moody been mentioned yet? He was bloody good last night, best game I have seen him play since the corresponding game at the last WC.
Also, Sam Whitelock, geez he gets though a ton of work but is usually overlooked when it comes to his play whilst everyone creams themselves over Brodie doing something.
Then there is Read, what a Captains knock that was, lead from the front for 80 minutes and was just so damn good at everything he did, what a player.

Did the All Blacks pull out the Tea Bag move there towards the end With TJ doing a Myth impersonation , looked like it to me and made me laugh.

Enzedder wrote:Well aren't you just bloody perfect. You're wrong too.

comets wrote:its OK to have sex with random strangers in a toilet stall at the airport even if you are married but please DON'T push a woman who you are not married too #idiotmentalityonthisbored

comets wrote:its OK to have sex with random strangers in a toilet stall at the airport even if you are married but please DON'T push a woman who you are not married too #idiotmentalityonthisbored

comets wrote:its OK to have sex with random strangers in a toilet stall at the airport even if you are married

UncleFB wrote:

comets wrote:its OK to have sex with random strangers in a toilet stall at the airport even if you are married but please DON'T push a woman who you are not married too #idiotmentalityonthisbored

The only idiot mentality on the board is thinking that consensual sex is worse than non consensual assault just because you’re Fijian and perpetrator of the assault was Fijian.

Demilich wrote:

Enzedder wrote:Well aren't you just bloody perfect. You're wrong too.

WTF happened to you? You used to be an entirely reasonable poster, who could engage in sensible conversation. Now you're a shrill, precious whiner, who flies entirely off the handle at the merest hint of something negative said about any sports player or team you support.

You've somehow devolved into a bastardised combination of all the worst parts of greivous and Jake, with the bitterness dial cranked up to 11.

It really has been a descent that has been a bit sad to watch.

sonic_attack wrote:You are a bit preachy. I take it there's not a single skeleton in your closet, the panes of your glasshouse polished and crack free?

comets wrote:

UncleFB wrote:

comets wrote:its OK to have sex with random strangers in a toilet stall at the airport even if you are married but please DON'T push a woman who you are not married too #idiotmentalityonthisbored

The only idiot mentality on the board is thinking that consensual sex is worse than non consensual assault just because you’re Fijian and perpetrator of the assault was Fijian.

yeah that word "assault" people don't know the meaning of it...if a push becomes an "assault" on the law of the country, might as well stop going outside..or walking in busy street..heck avoid large gatherings at all time cause u never know when someone will target u by running at you, falling over and claiming u assaulted them..

UncleFB wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:You are a bit preachy. I take it there's not a single skeleton in your closet, the panes of your glasshouse polished and crack free?

Me? There’s probably some skeletons - but none of the domestic violence type.

also,wtf is preachy about thinking assault is worse than consensual sex anyway? That’s f*cking weird.

sonic_attack wrote:

UncleFB wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:You are a bit preachy. I take it there's not a single skeleton in your closet, the panes of your glasshouse polished and crack free?

Me? There’s probably some skeletons - but none of the domestic violence type.

also,wtf is preachy about thinking assault is worse than consensual sex anyway? That’s f*cking weird.

No Demilich.

I can't be bothered arguing though.

sonic_attack wrote:

UncleFB wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:You are a bit preachy. I take it there's not a single skeleton in your closet, the panes of your glasshouse polished and crack free?

Me? There’s probably some skeletons - but none of the domestic violence type.

also,wtf is preachy about thinking assault is worse than consensual sex anyway? That’s f*cking weird.

No Demilich.

I can't be bothered arguing though.

UncleFB wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:

UncleFB wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:You are a bit preachy. I take it there's not a single skeleton in your closet, the panes of your glasshouse polished and crack free?

Me? There’s probably some skeletons - but none of the domestic violence type.

also,wtf is preachy about thinking assault is worse than consensual sex anyway? That’s f*cking weird.

No Demilich.

I can't be bothered arguing though.

Well then why join in? Should have stayed out of it like I should have , now I’m stuck arguing with comets.

RoscoPColtrain wrote:

naki wrote:On reflection this was probably the best play-offs performance of the last 3 tournaments for the ABs.

Man-for-man they lack the experience and in some positions to quality of those 2011 and 2015 sides, and they were coming up against a higher ranked side than any of the other teams had to face. Have to credit the coaching staff for manufacturing this

Hard to go past France 2015 but it was a clinical performance. Ireland never gave themselves a chance either though. Getting past England and (likely) South Africa still feels like a bridge too far to me. Oddly almost would have preferred to scrape through in a shocker than have to string 3 of those together.

Kahu wrote:

Demilich wrote:

Enzedder wrote:Well aren't you just bloody perfect. You're wrong too.

WTF happened to you? You used to be an entirely reasonable poster, who could engage in sensible conversation. Now you're a shrill, precious whiner, who flies entirely off the handle at the merest hint of something negative said about any sports player or team you support.

You've somehow devolved into a bastardised combination of all the worst parts of greivous and Jake, with the bitterness dial cranked up to 11.

It really has been a descent that has been a bit sad to watch.

If he said he was on multiple medications to deal with age related mental illness would you feel bad?

Demilich wrote:

Enzedder wrote:Well aren't you just bloody perfect. You're wrong too.

WTF happened to you? You used to be an entirely reasonable poster, who could engage in sensible conversation. Now you're a shrill, precious whiner, who flies entirely off the handle at the merest hint of something negative said about any sports player or team you support.

You've somehow devolved into a bastardised combination of all the worst parts of greivous and Jake, with the bitterness dial cranked up to 11.

It really has been a descent that has been a bit sad to watch.

Enzedder wrote:

Demilich wrote:

Enzedder wrote:Well aren't you just bloody perfect. You're wrong too.

WTF happened to you? You used to be an entirely reasonable poster, who could engage in sensible conversation. Now you're a shrill, precious whiner, who flies entirely off the handle at the merest hint of something negative said about any sports player or team you support.

You've somehow devolved into a bastardised combination of all the worst parts of greivous and Jake, with the bitterness dial cranked up to 11.

It really has been a descent that has been a bit sad to watch.

If you read back through this thread Demilich you will see that you were the one to get personal, not me. And here you are doing it again. So sad when you used to be such a great poster.

If you go back to the original post, I even qualified my opposition to Earl's post with it maybe being a spur of the moment event

I just wonder where you think your opinion (and Earl's seeing as though you said he was right and I was wrong) is better than the judge's who had all the information at their fingertips?. I am sure you have read the circumstances of the assault and it wasn't a Jake the Muss type event but you still want to persecute the guy.

I pray that you are not a judge as your wisdom does seem to be way off the mark.

Demilich wrote: I genuinely hope he get's the care and support he needs (from personal experience with family members and our mental health system, that tends to be a rather forlorn hope).

Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote:There's nothing like thrashing the Irish to bring about a falling out between two Kiwi posters.

sonic_attack wrote:You are a bit preachy. I take it there's not a single skeleton in your closet, the panes of your glasshouse polished and crack free?