Planet Rugby Forum

EverReady wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:32 am

msp. wrote:

nardol wrote: Hey - I'm just entering the debate about where I see Ireland. Remains to be seen if Japan keep getting the performances they have to date. I don't think they will and see them dropping down quite a lot. Player eligibility on residential grounds becoming longer could hurt them next cycle.

The question is what are Ireland doing wrong, They been one of the top teams over the past 15 years, yet they never got past the 1/4 final and never won a knock out game of a world cup. Is it a mental barrier for them? it cannot just be luck. (good or bad)

Luck has had a significant hand and this time father time caught up on the team. Last time injuries did for us

Usually after a loss like that a team trots out all the usual cliches about learning from it and the experience will be benefit later etc. Not this time though, we have learned our lesson and definitely will not be heading to the 2023 RWC with an over the hill team led by a 38 year old captain, despite having far better alternatives across the board.

C69 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:23 pm Wales descent from first last August to 8th has a 90's vibe about it

In the words of Arnie "We'll be back". May take a decade or two though.

How are SA still 1 without having played for a year?

Farva wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:25 pm How are SA still 1 without having played for a year?

Can't lose if you don't play.

Farva wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:25 pm How are SA still 1 without having played for a year?

Other teams fell over, then they scarpered.

Farva wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:25 pm How are SA still 1 without having played for a year?

Nz lost to Oz so they couldn't challenge for nr1.

Post rwc rankings are a bit of a joke

The reality is that all the top 3 sides lost to each other in the rwc and the saffas didn’t have the balls to turn up for the championship

kiap wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:24 pm

charltom wrote:Scots tend to beat Aussies when they play too. What are Australia doing that high up?

Beat the All Blacks by a large margin is the mathematical answer. And then only lost to higher ranked teams thereafter.

Also, 6th is not high up.

A team ranked 6th is generally a poor team. This is no exception.

Are you saying there can't be 6 or more good teams?

I disagree. Australia is a good team, inconsistent, has some flaws (which teams don't), but capable of beating any side in any given moment. Except maybe Eddie Jones England.

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:37 am

kiap wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:24 pm

charltom wrote:Scots tend to beat Aussies when they play too. What are Australia doing that high up?

Beat the All Blacks by a large margin is the mathematical answer. And then only lost to higher ranked teams thereafter.

Also, 6th is not high up.

A team ranked 6th is generally a poor team. This is no exception.

Are you saying there can't be 6 or more good teams?

I disagree. Australia is a good team, inconsistent, has some flaws (which teams don't), but capable of beating any side in any given moment. Except maybe Eddie Jones England.

Any of the teams below ranked 6th for any length of time the coach would be under serious pressure to keep their job. Australia have basically been ranked 6th since the end of 2018.

New Zealand (never happened)
England
Australia
South Africa

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:37 am

kiap wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:24 pm

charltom wrote:Scots tend to beat Aussies when they play too. What are Australia doing that high up?

Beat the All Blacks by a large margin is the mathematical answer. And then only lost to higher ranked teams thereafter.

Also, 6th is not high up.

A team ranked 6th is generally a poor team. This is no exception.

Are you saying there can't be 6 or more good teams?

I disagree. Australia is a good team, inconsistent, has some flaws (which teams don't), but capable of beating any side in any given moment. Except maybe Eddie Jones England.

Good teams don't go down to record scores.
Potentially good, yes. Inconsistent clearly.

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:06 am

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:37 am

kiap wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:24 pm

charltom wrote:Scots tend to beat Aussies when they play too. What are Australia doing that high up?

Beat the All Blacks by a large margin is the mathematical answer. And then only lost to higher ranked teams thereafter.

Also, 6th is not high up.

A team ranked 6th is generally a poor team. This is no exception.

Are you saying there can't be 6 or more good teams?

I disagree. Australia is a good team, inconsistent, has some flaws (which teams don't), but capable of beating any side in any given moment. Except maybe Eddie Jones England.

Any of the teams below ranked 6th for any length of time the coach would be under serious pressure to keep their job. Australia have basically been ranked 6th since the end of 2018.

New Zealand (never happened)
England
Australia
South Africa

I think the fact oz are 6th are as much an indication how the competition and quality has widened as opposed to it being a bad position in this day and age, even if old expectations are there. Essentially 4 of the 6 nations and 3 of the RC all believe they can be number 1 in the right circumstances and here are around 3 or 4 more teams wo believe they can crack the top 6, usually the right coach. They obviously can't all be.

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:49 am

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:06 am

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:37 am

kiap wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:24 pm

charltom wrote:Scots tend to beat Aussies when they play too. What are Australia doing that high up?

Beat the All Blacks by a large margin is the mathematical answer. And then only lost to higher ranked teams thereafter.

Also, 6th is not high up.

A team ranked 6th is generally a poor team. This is no exception.

Are you saying there can't be 6 or more good teams?

I disagree. Australia is a good team, inconsistent, has some flaws (which teams don't), but capable of beating any side in any given moment. Except maybe Eddie Jones England.

Any of the teams below ranked 6th for any length of time the coach would be under serious pressure to keep their job. Australia have basically been ranked 6th since the end of 2018.

New Zealand (never happened)
England
Australia
South Africa

I think the fact oz are 6th are as much an indication how the competition and quality has widened as opposed to it being a bad position in this day and age, even if old expectations are there. Essentially 4 of the 6 nations and 3 of the RC all believe they can be number 1 in the right circumstances and here are around 3 or 4 more teams wo believe they can crack the top 6, usually the right coach. They obviously can't all be.

You are coach of one of those 4 teams and in 6th place for a year. Tell that to your employers. You are still getting the tin tac

brat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:26 am Post rwc rankings are a bit of a joke

The reality is that all the top 3 sides lost to each other in the rwc and the saffas didn’t have the balls to turn up for the championship

a coach said "No" to 300 mil and "Yes" for getting his players ready again first player welfare

Rankings 16 November 2020

POSITION TEAMS POINTS
1 (1) SOUTH AFRICA 94.20
2 (3) ENGLAND 88.42
3 (2) NEW ZEALAND 88.17
4 (4) FRANCE 84.59
5 (5) IRELAND 84.57
6 (6) AUSTRALIA 83.86
7 (7) SCOTLAND 82.28
8 (10) ARGENTINA 80.31
9 (8) WALES 79.75
10 (9) JAPAN 79.29

Argentina deserves their move to 8 after their win over 3

Won't take much for Wales to drop out of the top 10.

ZuluBoy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:23 pm

brat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:26 am Post rwc rankings are a bit of a joke

The reality is that all the top 3 sides lost to each other in the rwc and the saffas didn’t have the balls to turn up for the championship

If a coach said "No" to 300 mil and "Yes" for his player's welfare
and you call such a quality decision which will improve player's conditioning and lead to less injuries to key players for the 2023 WC
as "have no balls"
then it's better you stick with whatever mediocre lot and cheer them on in this covid madness just because they didn't had one of the harshest lockdowns in the world and could play and therefore the opposition are now scared or scum or have no balls
rather go play with your marbles
because you didn't play when you should have played

Yawn.......Argentina has a much worse Covid situation and yet they manage to turn up and produce a fantastic performance.

Pity SA didn't have the balls to do the same.

Argentina will go better by game 3. It was only their first game this year. nz mediocre performance

Midfieldmaestro wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:48 pm Argentina will go better by game 3. It was only their first game this year. nz mediocre performance

They’d actually played the previous two weeks v Australia A and NSW.

Magpie26 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:06 pm Won't take much for Wales to drop out of the top 10.

It would still need Fiji beating one of the big boys to get Wales out of the Top 10. Not beyond the realms of possibilities, but also not that likely either.

SA have come across a novel way of staying on top. Just don't play at all.

How the hell is Scotland ahead of Argentina?

ZuluBoy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:41 pm Argentina deserves their move to 8 after their win over 3

It was a win over 2

Jerome Manning wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:07 am How the hell is Scotland ahead of Argentina?

Maybe because they have only won 3 games in their last 15 and two of those were against USA and Tonga, and in that same time Scotland have won 10 out of their last 15 games.

Also possibly the fact that they have only managed to beat Scotland twice in their last 10 games.

BlackMac wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:06 am

Jerome Manning wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:07 am How the hell is Scotland ahead of Argentina?

Maybe because they have only won 3 games in their last 15 and two of those were against USA and Tonga, and in that same time Scotland have won 10 out of their last 15 games.

Also possibly the fact that they have only managed to beat Scotland twice in their last 10 games.

Yeah, I know who I'm more afraid of if the All Blacks were to meet in a World Cup.

True Blue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:01 am SA have come across a novel way of staying on top. Just don't play at all.

They are going to engineer some kind of International ban on themselves for 20 years so they can scream from the rooftops that they are the number one side for 20 years without playing anyone. They have form you know.

Brumbie_Steve wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:12 am

True Blue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:01 am SA have come across a novel way of staying on top. Just don't play at all.

They are going to engineer some kind of International ban on themselves for 20 years so they can scream from the rooftops that they are the number one side for 20 years without playing anyone. They have form you know.

Jerome Manning wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:08 pm

BlackMac wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:06 am

Jerome Manning wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:07 am How the hell is Scotland ahead of Argentina?

Maybe because they have only won 3 games in their last 15 and two of those were against USA and Tonga, and in that same time Scotland have won 10 out of their last 15 games.

Also possibly the fact that they have only managed to beat Scotland twice in their last 10 games.

Yeah, I know who I'm more afraid of if the All Blacks were to meet in a World Cup.

Well then the rankings should reflect that once they get a few more wins under their belt. It would be a crap system if you advanced to high on the back of one good win.

Brumbie_Steve wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:12 am

True Blue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:01 am SA have come across a novel way of staying on top. Just don't play at all.

They are going to engineer some kind of International ban on themselves for 20 years so they can scream from the rooftops that they are the number one side for 20 years without playing anyone. They have form you know.

If they don't play they get removed from the rankings. However in 20 years time if they played a game they would come back with the same amount of points.

So after the first round of the 6N and England's historic loss to Scotland, here are the rankings. There could be a lot of moves still with the next round.

World Rugby Rankings
(Previous position in brackets)

1(1) South Africa 94.20
2(3) New Zealand 88.95
3(2) England 87.49
4(4) France 85.30
5(5) Ireland 83.42
6(6) Australia 83.08
7(7) Scotland 82.82
8(9) Wales 80.59
9(8) Argentina 80.31
10(10) Japan 79.29
11 (11) Fiji 76.87
12 (12) Georgia 72.18
13 (13) Tonga 71.44
14 (14) Italy 70.88
15 (15) Samoa 70.72
16 (16) USA 68.10
17 (17) Spain 67.71
18 (18) Uruguay 67.02
19 (19) Romania 65.33
20 (20) Portugal 62.25

Namibia has the potential for 17

South Africa #1? They haven’t played for almost 2 years band should be docked two points for every test they opted out of in 2020.

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:50 am

Brumbie_Steve wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:12 am

True Blue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:01 am SA have come across a novel way of staying on top. Just don't play at all.

They are going to engineer some kind of International ban on themselves for 20 years so they can scream from the rooftops that they are the number one side for 20 years without playing anyone. They have form you know.

If they don't play they get removed from the rankings. However in 20 years time if they played a game they would come back with the same amount of points.

Don't points expire? Aren't games from 2 or 3 years ago worth less points than games from 1 year ago? So would SAs points slowly start to drop if they didn't play again this year?

Olo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:41 am South Africa #1? They haven’t played for almost 2 years band should be docked two points for every test they opted out of in 2020.

NZ at #2 deserves seems wrong too, very inconsistent and unconvincing this year. Pretty sure France will go past them very soon, maybe England too.

Whatever wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:18 am

Olo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:41 am South Africa #1? They haven’t played for almost 2 years band should be docked two points for every test they opted out of in 2020.

NZ at #2 deserves seems wrong too, very inconsistent and unconvincing this year. Pretty sure France will go past them very soon, maybe England too.

Humm just judging by history, i would much more trust NZ to stay in the top 2 than SA.
Fair play to SA, they are ruthless when it comes to win RWCs but if you look at their results outside of RWCs in the last 15-20 years and compare that to other countries, you would wonder how they did manage to win 2 RWCs in that time lapse.

franch fan wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:23 am

Whatever wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:18 am

Olo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:41 am South Africa #1? They haven’t played for almost 2 years band should be docked two points for every test they opted out of in 2020.

NZ at #2 deserves seems wrong too, very inconsistent and unconvincing this year. Pretty sure France will go past them very soon, maybe England too.

Humm just judging by history, i would much more trust NZ to stay in the top 2 than SA.
Fair play to SA, they are ruthless when it comes to win RWCs but if you look at their results outside of RWCs in the last 15-20 years and compare that to other countries, you would wonder how they did manage to win 2 RWCs in that time lapse.

I think South Africa's lead is too great to be hauled in quickly, but NZ is only just ahead of the chasing pack. So SA can sit on this for awhile. No bad thing for NZ as losing the #1 tag might inspire a change in the coaching.

Yeah, SA's record has not been great, they snuck a RC win in 2019, but otherwise pretty dire in the RC:
2000 Australia
2001 Australia
2002 New Zealand
2003 New Zealand
2004 South Africa
2005 New Zealand
2006 New Zealand
2007 New Zealand
2008 New Zealand
2009 South Africa
2010 New Zealand
2011 Australia
2012 New Zealand
2013 New Zealand
2014 New Zealand
2015 Australia
2016 New Zealand
2017 New Zealand
2018 New Zealand
2019 South Africa
2020 New Zealand

Sensible Stephen wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:45 am

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:50 am

Brumbie_Steve wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:12 am

True Blue wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:01 am SA have come across a novel way of staying on top. Just don't play at all.

They are going to engineer some kind of International ban on themselves for 20 years so they can scream from the rooftops that they are the number one side for 20 years without playing anyone. They have form you know.

If they don't play they get removed from the rankings. However in 20 years time if they played a game they would come back with the same amount of points.

Don't points expire? Aren't games from 2 or 3 years ago worth less points than games from 1 year ago? So would SAs points slowly start to drop if they didn't play again this year?

If they don't play they get removed from the rankings. However in 20 years time if they played a game they would come back with the same amount of points.

Boks need to get a test under their belt. Stats can be skew at times for instance in the RCs stats in this thread 2020 was not a RCs but a Tri-Nation

ZuluBoy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:32 am Boks need to get a test under their belt. Stats can be skew at times for instance in the RCs stats in this thread 2020 was not a RCs but a Tri-Nation,

How can they - they don’t have 400 mins quality game time in advance so it’s not safe. No games before the Lions, then no Lions - when will they play.

Is 2021 another year without games?

kiwigreg369 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:26 am

ZuluBoy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:32 am Boks need to get a test under their belt. Stats can be skew at times for instance in the RCs stats in this thread 2020 was not a RCs but a Tri-Nation,

How can they - they don’t have 400 mins quality game time in advance so it’s not safe. No games before the Lions, then no Lions - when will they play.

Is 2021 another year without games?

If everyone is as scared of the SA variant of the virus as we currently are... then it could be another 0 test year for SA....