Stephen Jones: All Blacks are mediocre

fatcat · Post by **fatcat** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:41 am

How many followers do you have Seneca? Loser, ha ha.

RoscoPColtrain · Post by **RoscoPColtrain** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:45 am

It’s amazing how much difference that paywall made. He used to be quite regular here, now you just hear faint echoes from his padded cell

C69 · Post by **C69** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:46 am

Seneca of the Night wrote:
fatcat wrote:How many followers do you have Seneca? Loser, ha ha.
Well, there is Santa, and Wilson's Toffee, and, um, well, at least I have excellent followers.

Tbh bimbo's lips are usually hanging off your cock as well

ManInTheBar · Post by **ManInTheBar** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:47 am

c69 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
fatcat wrote:How many followers do you have Seneca? Loser, ha ha.
Well, there is Santa, and Wilson's Toffee, and, um, well, at least I have excellent followers.
Tbh bimbo's lips are usually hanging off your cock as well

Oceanbreeze maybe?

tc27 · Post by **tc27** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:50 am

Attention Kiwis.

Stephen Jones is Welsh.

ManInTheBar · Post by **ManInTheBar** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:50 am

Seneca of the Night wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:
c69 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
fatcat wrote:How many followers do you have Seneca? Loser, ha ha.
Well, there is Santa, and Wilson's Toffee, and, um, well, at least I have excellent followers.
Tbh bimbo's lips are usually hanging off your cock as well
Oceanbreeze maybe?
I follow Oceanbreeze.

"Since my last report, this employee has reached rock bottom and has started to dig."
"His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid curiosity."
"I would not allow this employee to breed."
"This associate is really not so much of a has-been, but more of a definitely won't be."
"Works well under constant supervision and cornered like a rat in a trap."
"When she opens her mouth, it seems that this is only to change whichever foot was previously in there."
"He would be out of his depth in a parking lot puddle."
"This young lady has delusions of adequacy."
"He sets low personal standards and then consistantly fails to achieve them."
"This employee is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot."
"This employee should go far - and the sooner he starts the better."

TokenSarriesFan · Post by **TokenSarriesFan** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:51 am

Seneca of the Night wrote:
fatcat wrote:How many followers do you have Seneca? Loser, ha ha.
Well, there is Santa, and Wilson's Toffee, and, um, well, at least I have excellent followers.

You have great Followers, The best off followers. Ask anybody, best followers of all time.

Yourmother · Post by **Yourmother** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:51 am

A large number of key words alerting me to this thread.
I’ll just add
#triggered
#aura
#precious
#dirtythugs
#cheats

Knoath · Post by **Knoath** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:54 am

Geez guy's just doing his normal Salvador Dali impression. Paint a picture that really ain't a picture and see what comes.

ManInTheBar · Post by **ManInTheBar** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:56 am

Yourmother wrote:A large number of key words alerting me to this thread.
I’ll just add
#triggered
#aura
#precious
#dirtythugs
#cheats

#*

bessantj · Post by **bessantj** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:56 am

I suppose it's a good tactic. But mediocre all blacks tend to be better than mediocre players from other countries.

bimboman · Post by **bimboman** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:58 am

c69 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
fatcat wrote:How many followers do you have Seneca? Loser, ha ha.
Well, there is Santa, and Wilson's Toffee, and, um, well, at least I have excellent followers.
Tbh bimbo's lips are usually hanging off your cock as well

Oh, more homophobia from our resident left leader. Utter scum.

Achahoish · Post by **Achahoish** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:58 am

England must beat New Zealand to have had a successful World Cup. If they lose it is a disappointment. There. Sometimes you wonder if life is really harder than rugby or vice versa. But it is true, and I would guess that Eddie Jones and Owen Farrell, in their hearts, realise it.

If anybody in the camp is going to settle for one outstanding quarter-final win, wave their hands in the air and tell themselves that they did their best in defeat against a great side, shame they lost, then the whole thing — the massive finance, the massive time factor, ambition, world-class, peak of rugby — all means nothing. They may as well not have spent all those millions of man hours and existed on a budget of £2.50 like the Tier 2 teams.

To deem brave defeat acceptable would also be to demean the occasion. Games like this are the reason a World Cup exists. England versus New Zealand at Tokyo stadium on Saturday. Colossal. Name me any true sports followers who will not watch it.

Dangerous: Jonny May’s speed was too much for Australia to handle during the quarter-final
Dangerous: Jonny May’s speed was too much for Australia to handle during the quarter-final
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It could represent the high point of the careers of many participants, because it is the classic confrontation between north and south, between two nations brought together in times of war but whose surface dislike when it comes to sport, and especially rugby, can be marked.

And yet for only one of the teams will there be the chance of an even higher peak. For the losing team they will never get the chance of the ultimate prize — they will not emulate Martin Johnson or Jonny Wilkinson. Never get to see somebody bid £500,000 for unused substitute Dorian West’s World Cup final jersey.

So that is what is at stake. Now the next problem. What on earth can England do against this machine created by Steve Hansen? Jones will be called upon to answer that question all week in the team room, in his own head, and by hordes of inquisitive media people.

But handily, he has already given the answer. He gave it four years ago in his first interview after arriving in England as head coach. “You cannot beat the All Blacks by playing them at their own game,” he told me. “You have to find ways of imposing yourself upon them, and maybe when the time comes, we will have an English style of play — that is what we will be looking to create.”

But now that we have all seen the first team and understood the plan, it seems that there is an English way, there is a means of playing which England have adopted which is not their hoary old style but nor is it an attempt to run faster than the speedy All Blacks. It is a classic mix, and yesterday it worked a treat.

That is why they will go into the game with hope. They cannot play as fast as New Zealand and their forwards, man for man, are not as good on the ball as the All Blacks. Ireland discovered in a brutal manner just how tough New Zealand are to stop when they play at their highest pace, are all over everything like a black rash, allow no time for the defence to re-set, or even breathe.

England can forget the old way which used to work — taking on New Zealand up front. It used to be possible when the silly Super Rugby years robbed them of props but now even after recent retirements, the new men, Joe Moody and Nepo Laulala are settled in. They will never become all-time greats but they will stand their ground. The New Zealand lineout is brilliant. Simple, yet effective.

But England definitely have weapons to use, and weapons which are not replicated in the opposition. They have developed a series of outstanding ball carriers — Billy and Mako Vunipola, Kyle Sinckler, Jamie George, Manu Tuilagi, and the speed and guile of Jonny May on the wing. New Zealand will not be on the front foot next week as often as they were against the ponderous Irish back row yesterday.

They also have two flankers. Sam Underhill and Tom Curry are not the typical jackal New Zealand flankers, they are both all-court players with a vast range of talents, they have youth and devil and pace on their side and neither, despite their youth, will feel any inhibitions or awe concerning the opposition.

Curry is quick, Underhill hits like a steam hammer. Yesterday against the feted Hooper-Pocock combination, they were dominant. The pair erased Australia’s own dynamic duo with relative ease.

England can play rapidly when they need to, but next weekend, they can slow it down as well. They can consider this as they wait ages for the ever-longer, ever-more-ludicrous haka to end, if ever.

There is no point in hurrying to a scrum or a lineout or a restart. No point in an endless stream of tap penalties. Their revived maul can slow the play, the carriers can take New Zealand on to the back foot, so that the aggressive defensive cannot move so quickly.

This does not mean that England want to play a ponderous game, that is not them. But they should do their best to make New Zealand fret when pace is taken off every part of the activity. As they do that they can pounce for the mediocre players in the New Zealand team. Every team has them, and New Zealand are no different.

They may not start as favourites. But Eddie Jones has enough up his sleeve and at his disposal to make it a ferocious contest. Now he has finally chosen his first team, a mere four years after arriving, they are more than a match for most.

bessantj · Post by **bessantj** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:01 am

Achahoish wrote:England must beat New Zealand to have had a successful World Cup.

Interesting if true.

ManInTheBar · Post by **ManInTheBar** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:03 am

bessantj wrote:
Achahoish wrote:England must beat New Zealand to have had a successful World Cup.
Interesting if true.

It is the verbal equivalent of click-bait - I wasn't tempted to read the whole thing but that did provoke me

In truth if England play well and lose to the better side then it will have been a successful campaign with just the regrets you would expect. If we play BADLY then expect meltdownmageddon

naki · Post by **naki** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:21 pm

Sam Underhill and Tom Curry are not the typical jackal New Zealand flankers

Moron

MungoMan · Post by **MungoMan** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:29 pm

naki wrote:
Sam Underhill and Tom Curry are not the typical jackal New Zealand flankers
Moron

Typical. New Zealand. Jackal. Flankers. A species the WWF has on the critically endangered list.

The stupid fat fúck is truly just phoning it in, isn’t he.

mightyreds · Post by **mightyreds** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:40 am

Jones starting already - I thought he had disappeared; unfortunately not.

Dark · Post by **Dark** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:50 am

Seneca of the Night wrote:Well, not all of them, but some:

they should do their best to make New Zealand fret when pace is taken off every part of their activity. As they do that they can pounce for the mediocre players in the New Zealand team.
No link, behind the pay wall blah blah.

CTRL A...CTRL C....CTRL V is not rocket science

merlin the happy pig · Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:04 am

Seneca of the Night wrote:
fatcat wrote:How many followers do you have Seneca? Loser, ha ha.
Well, there is Santa, and Wilson's Toffee, and, um, well, at least I have excellent followers.

The Best, most beautiful followers that Mexico can pay for

The Native · Post by **The Native** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:04 am

Quite a moderate article from Jones, to be fair. Only a couple of gross inaccuracies. And quite a tame dig at the Haka. Perhaps hes mellowing in his old age.

Clog50Percent · Post by **Clog50Percent** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:10 am

Stephen Jones has some really really high standards does he really believe what he says.

elfieldinho · Post by **elfieldinho** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:19 am

I was thinking exactly this. By Jones' own rabid standards, this is very much a pipe and slippers in front of the fire kind of a piece. If you take out the childish jibe at the Haka and the ridiculous choice of 'mediocre' it almost makes sense. Either they have changed his medication, or someone else is writing his articles and slipping in flashes of his prejudices in an attempt to make the impression credible.

It still ignores the power and quality of New Zealand's carriers, underestimates their front row forwards, dismisses the Super 15 for creating a weak pack which I don't remember and implies that throwing line-out ball directly to where Whitelock and Retallick will jump up and catch it is a slightly primitive tactic. It is so close to reasonable though that either the Times have finally come to their senses and started doctoring the old boy's copy, or we can expect a blistering two page spread with photographs later this week outlining all of the ways in which the Kiwis cheat.

GI_Joint · Post by **GI_Joint** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:47 am

That seemed pretty tame to be honest. Disappointed.

Let's see if Rattue can one up Jonesy.

Altazuma · Post by **Altazuma** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:53 am

elfieldinho wrote:I was thinking exactly this. By Jones' own rabid standards, this is very much a pipe and slippers in front of the fire kind of a piece. If you take out the childish jibe at the Haka and the ridiculous choice of 'mediocre' it almost makes sense. Either they have changed his medication, or someone else is writing his articles and slipping in flashes of his prejudices in an attempt to make the impression credible.

It still ignores the power and quality of New Zealand's carriers, underestimates their front row forwards, dismisses the Super 15 for creating a weak pack which I don't remember and implies that throwing line-out ball directly to where Whitelock and Retallick will jump up and catch it is a slightly primitive tactic. It is so close to reasonable though that either the Times have finally come to their senses and started doctoring the old boy's copy, or we can expect a blistering two page spread with photographs later this week outlining all of the ways in which the Kiwis cheat.

Oh surely the latter.

It is a long week of build up with articles required an no mid week games to comment on. Instead there is only the mundane press conferences with coaches and players who all say the right thing, effectively nothing.

He needs ammunition for another 5 articles this week so I think he is just keeping his powder dry.

Dark · Post by **Dark** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:05 am

We need some serious wind up journo' here. Not this stale pale white male stuff.

I have heard rumours England are taking steroid intravenously and they have offered the ref a holiday house.

That and their forwards are weak

kiwinoz · Post by **kiwinoz** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:07 am

Altazuma wrote:
elfieldinho wrote:I was thinking exactly this. By Jones' own rabid standards, this is very much a pipe and slippers in front of the fire kind of a piece. If you take out the childish jibe at the Haka and the ridiculous choice of 'mediocre' it almost makes sense. Either they have changed his medication, or someone else is writing his articles and slipping in flashes of his prejudices in an attempt to make the impression credible.

It still ignores the power and quality of New Zealand's carriers, underestimates their front row forwards, dismisses the Super 15 for creating a weak pack which I don't remember and implies that throwing line-out ball directly to where Whitelock and Retallick will jump up and catch it is a slightly primitive tactic. It is so close to reasonable though that either the Times have finally come to their senses and started doctoring the old boy's copy, or we can expect a blistering two page spread with photographs later this week outlining all of the ways in which the Kiwis cheat.
Oh surely the latter.

It is a long week of build up with articles required an no mid week games to comment on. Instead there is only the mundane press conferences with coaches and players who all say the right thing, effectively nothing.

He needs ammunition for another 5 articles this week so I think he is just keeping his powder dry.

The undercover story of the Polynesian baby farm run the NZRU?

The Native · Post by **The Native** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:09 am

I subscribe to the Ruck podcast around EOYT and RWC times. I'm waiting for the latest episode post the QF's to hear what he has to say as a lot of that seems to be off the record, so to speak.

Fat Old Git · Post by **Fat Old Git** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:10 am

elfieldinho wrote:I was thinking exactly this. By Jones' own rabid standards, this is very much a pipe and slippers in front of the fire kind of a piece. If you take out the childish jibe at the Haka and the ridiculous choice of 'mediocre' it almost makes sense. Either they have changed his medication, or someone else is writing his articles and slipping in flashes of his prejudices in an attempt to make the impression credible.

It still ignores the power and quality of New Zealand's carriers, underestimates their front row forwards, dismisses the Super 15 for creating a weak pack which I don't remember and implies that throwing line-out ball directly to where Whitelock and Retallick will jump up and catch it is a slightly primitive tactic. It is so close to reasonable though that either the Times have finally come to their senses and started doctoring the old boy's copy, or we can expect a blistering two page spread with photographs later this week outlining all of the ways in which the Kiwis cheat.

It's all generated by a computer algorithm that was written as part of a level 2 software engineering project.

not_english · Post by **not_english** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:35 pm

The only thing I really disagree with is

England can forget the old way which used to work — taking on New Zealand up front.

.

NZ have hardly ever been knocked back in the forwards battle (notable exception 2002 vs England when we left most of the forward pack at home), it is this that enabled all the pretty backline moves.

SJ was on Radio 4 this morning too - sounds surprisingly English.

Glaston · Post by **Glaston** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:43 pm

not_english wrote: SJ was on Radio 4 this morning too - sounds surprisingly English.

Queens "English" its what the Welsh aspiring classes aim for.

message #2527204 · Post by **message #2527204** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:48 pm

not_english wrote:The only thing I really disagree with is
England can forget the old way which used to work — taking on New Zealand up front.
.

NZ have hardly ever been knocked back in the forwards battle (notable exception 2002 vs England when we left most of the forward pack at home), it is this that enabled all the pretty backline moves.

SJ was on Radio 4 this morning too - sounds surprisingly English.

So many of them do.
You only discover a lot of them are Welsh when the red shirts and anti-English sentiments appear once a year during 6N.....and only then since the mid noughties. That's when you discover the place was infested with them all along. Blending in like normal folk.

Jay Cee Gee · Post by **Jay Cee Gee** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:50 pm

In other UK rugby scribe news, here's Stuart Barnes' combined NZ/Eng team.

I can only conclude he's not watched the AB's play this year if he's including Ben Smith.

STUART BARNES' NEW ZEALAND – ENGLAND COMBINED XV

15 Ben Smith (NZ), 14 Sevu Reece (NZ), 13 Manu Tuilagi (Eng), 12 Owen Farrell (Eng), 11 Jonny May (Eng), 10 Beauden Barrett (NZ), 9 Aaron Smith (NZ); 8 Kieran Read (NZ), 7 Sam Underhill (Eng), 6 Ardie Savea (NZ)(, 5 Brodie Retallick (NZ), 4 Maro Itoje (Eng), 3 Kyle Sickler (Eng), 2 Jamie George (Eng), 1 Manu Vunipola (Eng).

message #2527204 · Post by **message #2527204** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:55 pm

Jay Cee Gee wrote:In other UK rugby scribe news, here's Stuart Barnes' combined NZ/Eng team.

I can only conclude he's not watched the AB's play this year if he's including Ben Smith.

STUART BARNES' NEW ZEALAND – ENGLAND COMBINED XV

15 Ben Smith (NZ), 14 Sevu Reece (NZ), 13 Manu Tuilagi (Eng), 12 Owen Farrell (Eng), 11 Jonny May (Eng), 10 Beauden Barrett (NZ), 9 Aaron Smith (NZ); 8 Kieran Read (NZ), 7 Sam Underhill (Eng), 6 Ardie Savea (NZ)(, 5 Brodie Retallick (NZ), 4 Maro Itoje (Eng), 3 Kyle Sickler (Eng), 2 Jamie George (Eng), 1 Manu Vunipola (Eng).

...and Manu Vunipola is a fly half??

booze · Post by **booze** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:02 pm

Jay Cee Gee wrote:In other UK rugby scribe news, here's Stuart Barnes' combined NZ/Eng team.

I can only conclude he's not watched the AB's play this year if he's including Ben Smith.

STUART BARNES' NEW ZEALAND – ENGLAND COMBINED XV

15 Ben Smith (NZ), 14 Sevu Reece (NZ), 13 Manu Tuilagi (Eng), 12 Owen Farrell (Eng), 11 Jonny May (Eng), 10 Beauden Barrett (NZ), 9 Aaron Smith (NZ); 8 Kieran Read (NZ), 7 Sam Underhill (Eng), 6 Ardie Savea (NZ)(, 5 Brodie Retallick (NZ), 4 Maro Itoje (Eng), 3 Kyle Sickler (Eng), 2 Jamie George (Eng), 1 Manu Vunipola (Eng).

Love how the English media (and some on here) are underestimating the NZ pack and the front row in particular.

Hopefully the media will ramp up the pressure on our pack as the AB weakness. They generally make a mockery of those predictions when it happens

message #2527204 · Post by **message #2527204** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:26 pm

booze wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:In other UK rugby scribe news, here's Stuart Barnes' combined NZ/Eng team.

I can only conclude he's not watched the AB's play this year if he's including Ben Smith.

STUART BARNES' NEW ZEALAND – ENGLAND COMBINED XV

15 Ben Smith (NZ), 14 Sevu Reece (NZ), 13 Manu Tuilagi (Eng), 12 Owen Farrell (Eng), 11 Jonny May (Eng), 10 Beauden Barrett (NZ), 9 Aaron Smith (NZ); 8 Kieran Read (NZ), 7 Sam Underhill (Eng), 6 Ardie Savea (NZ)(, 5 Brodie Retallick (NZ), 4 Maro Itoje (Eng), 3 Kyle Sickler (Eng), 2 Jamie George (Eng), 1 Manu Vunipola (Eng).
Love how the English media (and some on here) are underestimating the NZ pack and the front row in particular.

Hopefully the media will ramp up the pressure on our pack as the AB weakness. They generally make a mockery of those predictions when it happens

No ones saying you don't have a great pack, or underestimating it. He's simply comparing man to man ( and also probably trying to drum up some semi-credible reasons to be hopeful with the English public)

icon · Post by **icon** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:41 pm

message #2527204 wrote:

He's simply comparing man to man (and also probably trying to drum up some semi-credible reasons to be hopeful with the English public)

a 40-16 win with 36% possession and 38% territory against a team that made the ABs their plaything in Perth is more than a 'semi-credible' reason to be confident...

grouch · Post by **grouch** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:46 pm

Jay Cee Gee wrote:In other UK rugby scribe news, here's Stuart Barnes' combined NZ/Eng team.

I can only conclude he's not watched the AB's play this year if he's including Ben Smith.

STUART BARNES' NEW ZEALAND – ENGLAND COMBINED XV

15 Ben Smith (NZ), 14 Sevu Reece (NZ), 13 Manu Tuilagi (Eng), 12 Owen Farrell (Eng), 11 Jonny May (Eng), 10 Beauden Barrett (NZ), 9 Aaron Smith (NZ); 8 Kieran Read (NZ), 7 Sam Underhill (Eng), 6 Ardie Savea (NZ)(, 5 Brodie Retallick (NZ), 4 Maro Itoje (Eng), 3 Kyle Sickler (Eng), 2 Jamie George (Eng), 1 Manu Vunipola (Eng).

The same Front row that cynically and dangerously collapsed multiple scrums when under pressure from the dominant Wobbly scrum ?

A competent ref would have carded Sinkler mid - 1st half.

SomeFool · Post by **SomeFool** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:57 pm

So who are our mediocre players?

kiwinoz · Post by **kiwinoz** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:02 pm

SomeFool wrote:So who are our mediocre players?

Apparently they all are.