Kick passes

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troglodiet
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Kick passes

Post by troglodiet »

Lately every team seems to be doing it - kicking the ball to the wingers (mosty) instead of letting the ball go through the backline, with perhaps a skip pass in there.

No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.

Has anybody thought of, instead of kicking, passing the ball NFL- quarter back style to the outside backs? Obviously laterally instead of forward, but those NFL guys can throw the ball with pin point accuracy. Wouldn't a scrum half/fly half have a better chance of finding the speedsters on the outside with such a type of pass instead of a kick?
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Leinsterman
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Leinsterman »

An American football is a good bit smaller and a lot heavier. It's designed to be passed like that. You wouldn't do it with a rugby ball.
Jay Cee Gee
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

I have seen teams do it from time to time but the thing is it would generally mean the winger is taking the ball without much pace or even standing still.
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grubberkick
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Re: Kick passes

Post by grubberkick »

troglodiet wrote:Lately every team seems to be doing it - kicking the ball to the wingers (mosty) instead of letting the ball go through the backline, with perhaps a skip pass in there.

No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.

Has anybody thought of, instead of kicking, passing the ball NFL- quarter back style to the outside backs? Obviously laterally instead of forward, but those NFL guys can throw the ball with pin point accuracy. Wouldn't a scrum half/fly half have a better chance of finding the speedsters on the outside with such a type of pass instead of a kick?
Ford and Farrell boot imposters. Ford can bullet pass twice the width of a standard pitch.
So I have heard.
And Farrell three pitch widths.

:nod:
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Flametop
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Flametop »

Like an NFL pass a cross kick can go over the head of the defender for the attacker to rush onto, with the defender disadvantaged by having to turn and run back.
If you just loop a NFL pass either flat or backwards you set your catcher up to be smashed as he catches the ball/lands as the defender can see the flight of the ball in front of him to rush up to.
The possibility of an intercept and try is also risky.
Wilderbeast
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Wilderbeast »

Jay Cee Gee wrote:I have seen teams do it from time to time but the thing is it would generally mean the winger is taking the ball without much pace or even standing still.
Surely the winger would come from deep to catch it at pace (like a good cross field kick)?
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Lobby
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Lobby »

I can remember the US no. 8 Dan Lyle throwing NFL style passes a few times when he was playing for Bath, usually when taking a quick line out.
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Lobby wrote:I can remember the US no. 8 Dan Lyle throwing NFL style passes a few times when he was playing for Bath, usually when taking a quick line out.
Sure, but then it'd be kind of telegraphed as the winger would be setting up 10-15m behind everyone else.
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capt hurricane
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Re: Kick passes

Post by capt hurricane »

troglodiet wrote:Lately every team seems to be doing it - kicking the ball to the wingers (mosty) instead of letting the ball go through the backline, with perhaps a skip pass in there.

No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.

Has anybody thought of, instead of kicking, passing the ball NFL- quarter back style to the outside backs? Obviously laterally instead of forward, but those NFL guys can throw the ball with pin point accuracy. Wouldn't a scrum half/fly half have a better chance of finding the speedsters on the outside with such a type of pass instead of a kick?
Probably because a kick can go forward, whereas a pass must travel backwards. A well placed kick can turn the defender and allow the attacking player to take the ball going forward.

Also, a long pass like that has a high chance of being intercepted with the rush defence employed these days, as the English demonstrated!
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Re: Kick passes

Post by beafheart »

Luatua at line-out time for the Barbarians
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CrazyIslander
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Re: Kick passes

Post by CrazyIslander »

It's because of the rush defence. The defensive winger usually hangs back from the line to cover the kicks. It's actually not as risky as it may seem because your winger would be on their own near the line. Execution is crucial but it's top level rugby.
Last edited by CrazyIslander on Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dinsdale
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Re: Kick passes

Post by dinsdale »

Lobby wrote:I can remember the US no. 8 Dan Lyle throwing NFL style passes a few times when he was playing for Bath, usually when taking a quick line out.
If he's got big enough hands to control it that seems like a good idea as I assume he's had plenty of practice.
Wilderbeast
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Wilderbeast »

Quite often you have the backline set up very deep, not just the winger. Could be limited to set pieces too.

I’m not a fan though, as my favourite cross kicks go forward behind the defence and the winger (who is flat) runs onto it at pace. Quite hard to do accurately.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Kick passes

Post by eldanielfire »

troglodiet wrote:Lately every team seems to be doing it - kicking the ball to the wingers (mosty) instead of letting the ball go through the backline, with perhaps a skip pass in there.

No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.

Has anybody thought of, instead of kicking, passing the ball NFL- quarter back style to the outside backs? Obviously laterally instead of forward, but those NFL guys can throw the ball with pin point accuracy. Wouldn't a scrum half/fly half have a better chance of finding the speedsters on the outside with such a type of pass instead of a kick?
NFL is heavier and smaller and designed to be a missile. Also the game is almost static for those pin point throws compared with Rugby. Also the constant team changes mean Quarter Backs aren't running around fir 80 minutes, they are throwing almost always from fresh, not after a dozen tackles and rucks.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: Kick passes

Post by CrazyIslander »

eldanielfire wrote:
troglodiet wrote:Lately every team seems to be doing it - kicking the ball to the wingers (mosty) instead of letting the ball go through the backline, with perhaps a skip pass in there.

No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.

Has anybody thought of, instead of kicking, passing the ball NFL- quarter back style to the outside backs? Obviously laterally instead of forward, but those NFL guys can throw the ball with pin point accuracy. Wouldn't a scrum half/fly half have a better chance of finding the speedsters on the outside with such a type of pass instead of a kick?
NFL is heavier and smaller and designed to be a missile. Also the game is almost static for those pin point throws compared with Rugby. Also the constant team changes mean Quarter Backs aren't running around fir 80 minutes, they are throwing almost always from fresh, not after a dozen tackles and rucks.
Also a kick is allowed to go forward. You're righr about NFL balls going faster in the air. It's difficult to throw a rugby ball that far let alone with accuracy.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Kick passes

Post by eldanielfire »

CrazyIslander wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
troglodiet wrote:Lately every team seems to be doing it - kicking the ball to the wingers (mosty) instead of letting the ball go through the backline, with perhaps a skip pass in there.

No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.

Has anybody thought of, instead of kicking, passing the ball NFL- quarter back style to the outside backs? Obviously laterally instead of forward, but those NFL guys can throw the ball with pin point accuracy. Wouldn't a scrum half/fly half have a better chance of finding the speedsters on the outside with such a type of pass instead of a kick?
NFL is heavier and smaller and designed to be a missile. Also the game is almost static for those pin point throws compared with Rugby. Also the constant team changes mean Quarter Backs aren't running around fir 80 minutes, they are throwing almost always from fresh, not after a dozen tackles and rucks.
Also a kick is allowed to go forward. You're righr about NFL balls going faster in the air. It's difficult to throw a rugby ball that far let alone with accuracy.
To be fair trog did mention throwing it NFL style sideways to exploit the space faster.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: Kick passes

Post by CrazyIslander »

eldanielfire wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
troglodiet wrote:Lately every team seems to be doing it - kicking the ball to the wingers (mosty) instead of letting the ball go through the backline, with perhaps a skip pass in there.

No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.

Has anybody thought of, instead of kicking, passing the ball NFL- quarter back style to the outside backs? Obviously laterally instead of forward, but those NFL guys can throw the ball with pin point accuracy. Wouldn't a scrum half/fly half have a better chance of finding the speedsters on the outside with such a type of pass instead of a kick?
NFL is heavier and smaller and designed to be a missile. Also the game is almost static for those pin point throws compared with Rugby. Also the constant team changes mean Quarter Backs aren't running around fir 80 minutes, they are throwing almost always from fresh, not after a dozen tackles and rucks.
Also a kick is allowed to go forward. You're righr about NFL balls going faster in the air. It's difficult to throw a rugby ball that far let alone with accuracy.
To be fair trog did mention throwing it NFL style sideways to exploit the space faster.
I remember Dallaglio doing one against Tonga once. I irc Zinzan threw a backhand spiral from one side to the other for a try.
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Sandstorm
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Sandstorm »

Skinstad did it a few times for the Stormers way back. It looked cool, but wasn’t particularly effective.
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True Blue
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Re: Kick passes

Post by True Blue »

Lomu did it a few times also.
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Re: Kick passes

Post by goeagles »

Leinsterman wrote:An American football is a good bit smaller and a lot heavier. It's designed to be passed like that. You wouldn't do it with a rugby ball.
Wrong. Most American born and raised rugby players can do it with little problem. There just isn’t much advantage to doing it in most situations. And you’re exposing your rib cage going one side, turning your back to the defensive line going the other side. The one place I could see it being of use is for quick lineouts. But that’s a pretty marginal gain.
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBkGLdFbyT8

I recall Brooke doing it for the AB's too, think it was against the Pumas.
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Re: Kick passes

Post by OttawaKat »

goeagles wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:An American football is a good bit smaller and a lot heavier. It's designed to be passed like that. You wouldn't do it with a rugby ball.
Wrong. Most American born and raised rugby players can do it with little problem. There just isn’t much advantage to doing it in most situations. And you’re exposing your rib cage going one side, turning your back to the defensive line going the other side. The one place I could see it being of use is for quick lineouts. But that’s a pretty marginal gain.
As a hooker and prop who usually did throw ins I always did single hand throws from growing up playing football. Just felt more natural.

In open play it would be a pretty slow delivery and dangerous like you say, and throwing a football with strength and accuracy on a dead run is pretty difficult.
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mr bungle
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Re: Kick passes

Post by mr bungle »

True Blue wrote:Lomu did it a few times also.
Yes, Lomu tried it a few times. Possibly to good effect in Sevens from memory.

Zinny had that massive reverse pass which had a similar result.
OB..
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Re: Kick passes

Post by OB.. »

The American Pete Dawkins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Dawkinsdid it, but only at lineouts.
"At Oxford, he won three Blues in rugby union and is credited with popularizing the overarm throw (originally called the "Yankee torpedo pass") into the lineout."

I remember him throwing the ball half way across the field. The Oxford forwards would turn and sprint after it. Unfortunately for him the ploy was already out of the bag by the Varsity match, and Cambridge knew how to defend against it.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Anonymous 1 »

It's a cross field kick. Murray Mexted is a cunt
Jay Cee Gee
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Also, shouldn't it be 'Pass Kick" rather than Kick Pass.

It's mainly a kick, 'Pass' is the descriptor.
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Cartman
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Cartman »

Kick pass sounds fcuking awesome though
Reminds me of mila and her mutipass in fifth element
Great now im horny again
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RoscoPColtrain
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Re: Kick passes

Post by RoscoPColtrain »

troglodiet wrote:No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.
The smarter teams are starting to use it a lot more judiciously, kicking it flatter and doing it a lot more when there’s more space on the wings. Execution has to be spot on though.
Wilderbeast
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Wilderbeast »

RoscoPColtrain wrote:
troglodiet wrote:No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.
The smarter teams are starting to use it a lot more judiciously, kicking it flatter and doing it a lot more when there’s more space on the wings. Execution has to be spot on though.
Not always. Sometime you can land a jumbo-fuckin-jet in the space a winger has yet the commentators will call every damn one ‘a pin-point kick’ so long as he manages to catch it.
merlin the happy pig
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Re: Kick passes

Post by merlin the happy pig »

I'm please to see the ABs have gone away from kicking it straight across field.
Used to piss me off royally when the winger caught it completely flat footed and giving the opposition the chance to run onto an intercept already at top speed.
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Gwenno »

Wilderbeast wrote:
RoscoPColtrain wrote:
troglodiet wrote:No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.
The smarter teams are starting to use it a lot more judiciously, kicking it flatter and doing it a lot more when there’s more space on the wings. Execution has to be spot on though.
Not always. Sometime you can land a jumbo-fuckin-jet in the space a winger has yet the commentators will call every damn one ‘a pin-point kick’ so long as he manages to catch it.
Done a lot on pk advantage too
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Sandstorm »

merlin the happy pig wrote:I'm please to see the ABs have gone away from kicking it straight across field.
Used to piss me off royally when the winger caught it completely flat footed and giving the opposition the chance to run onto an intercept already at top speed.
You haven't gone away from it, Richie is just much better at the kick than BB. ;)
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Re: Kick passes

Post by Jensrsa »

grubberkick wrote:
troglodiet wrote:Lately every team seems to be doing it - kicking the ball to the wingers (mosty) instead of letting the ball go through the backline, with perhaps a skip pass in there.

No matter how good it's done, it is still a bit of a 50/50 affair.

Has anybody thought of, instead of kicking, passing the ball NFL- quarter back style to the outside backs? Obviously laterally instead of forward, but those NFL guys can throw the ball with pin point accuracy. Wouldn't a scrum half/fly half have a better chance of finding the speedsters on the outside with such a type of pass instead of a kick?
Ford and Farrell boot imposters. Ford can bullet pass twice the width of a standard pitch.
So I have heard.
And Farrell three pitch widths.

:nod:
140-210m bullet passes. WOW!
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CrazyIslander
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Re: Kick passes

Post by CrazyIslander »

mr bungle wrote:
True Blue wrote:Lomu did it a few times also.
Yes, Lomu tried it a few times. Possibly to good effect in Sevens from memory.

Zinny had that massive reverse pass which had a similar result.
I remember Lomu standing in the middle of the potch in Tonga and NFL passed the ball deep into the crowd. He was giving the balls away.

I remember the Zinny one at SR. IMO Robin caught it and scored. Would be good to get a video of it.
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