Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

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Biffer29
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Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by Biffer29 »

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... SApp_Other

Twelve EU countries, including Ireland, have blocked a proposed new rule that would have forced multinational companies to reveal how much profit they make and how little tax they pay in each of the 28 member states.

The proposed directive was designed to shine a light on how some of the world’s biggest companies – such as Apple, Facebook and Google – avoid paying an estimated $500bn a year in taxes by shifting their profits from higher-tax countries such as the UK, France and Germany to zero-tax or low-tax jurisdictions including Ireland, Luxembourg and Malta.

Ireland is one of the biggest beneficiaries of the current rules. The country hosts corporate offices that collect revenue and profits generated by many multinational companies across the EU bloc. Ireland allows global technology companies to pay corporation tax at rate as low as 6.25%, compared with 19% in the UK.

Ireland’s decision to vote against the proposed directive – which would have forced companies to report their revenues and profits on a country-by-country basis – came as the Irish tax-and-spending watchdog warned that the country’s economy could collapse if there was a global clampdown on tax avoidance.

The Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (IFAC) warned on Thursday that the country’s economy has become so reliant on taxes paid by multinationals that half of all of corporate taxes paid in the nation come from just 10 global companies. The firms are not named, but they are believed to include US technology giants Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, Dell, Google and Oracle.
iarmhiman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by iarmhiman »

We charge 12.5%.

That's our corp tax rate
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CM11
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by CM11 »

Nearly half the EU countries voted against it but we're the ones in the headline. Hmmmmm. No ulterior motive there at all.
iarmhiman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by iarmhiman »

And Boris is keeping the British corp tax at 19%.

Keep doing the same I say
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camroc1
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by camroc1 »

CM11 wrote:Nearly half the EU countries voted against it but we're the ones in the headline. Hmmmmm. No ulterior motive there at all.
It's a nothing story, under current OECD tax rules the MNCs already tell the tax authorities of countries they pay tax in, the tax they pay in other jurisdictions. Making that public is simply setting up media witch hunts. Which is the only reason the Guardian is disappointed.

In most jurisdictions compliant tax affairs are private.
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CM11
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by CM11 »

camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:Nearly half the EU countries voted against it but we're the ones in the headline. Hmmmmm. No ulterior motive there at all.
It's a nothing story, under current OECD tax rules the MNCs already tell the tax authorities of countries they pay tax in, the tax they pay in other jurisdictions. Making that public is simply setting up media witch hunts. Which is the only reason the Guardian is disappointed.

In most jurisdictions compliant tax affairs are private.
Unfortunately facts are irrelevant these days.
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RodneyRegis
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by RodneyRegis »

iarmhiman wrote:We charge 12.5%.

That's our corp tax rate
Well...
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CM11
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by CM11 »

RodneyRegis wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We charge 12.5%.

That's our corp tax rate
Well...
Well, what?

Any tax we lay claim to is charged that. The dispute is over what we can lay claim to.
bimboman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by bimboman »

CM11 wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We charge 12.5%.

That's our corp tax rate
Well...
Well, what?

Any tax we lay claim to is charged that. The dispute is over what we can lay claim to.

:lol:
bimboman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by bimboman »

camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:Nearly half the EU countries voted against it but we're the ones in the headline. Hmmmmm. No ulterior motive there at all.
It's a nothing story, under current OECD tax rules the MNCs already tell the tax authorities of countries they pay tax in, the tax they pay in other jurisdictions. Making that public is simply setting up media witch hunts. Which is the only reason the Guardian is disappointed.

In most jurisdictions compliant tax affairs are private.

You don’t declare other tax to every tax paying venue. That’s just not true.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by Duff Paddy »

RodneyRegis wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We charge 12.5%.

That's our corp tax rate
Well...
Which bit are you struggling with
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CM11
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by CM11 »

bimboman wrote:
CM11 wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We charge 12.5%.

That's our corp tax rate
Well...
Well, what?

Any tax we lay claim to is charged that. The dispute is over what we can lay claim to.

:lol:
Very insightful. As usual.
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camroc1
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by camroc1 »

bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:Nearly half the EU countries voted against it but we're the ones in the headline. Hmmmmm. No ulterior motive there at all.
It's a nothing story, under current OECD tax rules the MNCs already tell the tax authorities of countries they pay tax in, the tax they pay in other jurisdictions. Making that public is simply setting up media witch hunts. Which is the only reason the Guardian is disappointed.

In most jurisdictions compliant tax affairs are private.

You don’t declare other tax to every tax paying venue. That’s just not true.
You might not, but MNCs do.
bimboman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by bimboman »

camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:Nearly half the EU countries voted against it but we're the ones in the headline. Hmmmmm. No ulterior motive there at all.
It's a nothing story, under current OECD tax rules the MNCs already tell the tax authorities of countries they pay tax in, the tax they pay in other jurisdictions. Making that public is simply setting up media witch hunts. Which is the only reason the Guardian is disappointed.

In most jurisdictions compliant tax affairs are private.

You don’t declare other tax to every tax paying venue. That’s just not true.
You might not, but MNCs do.

No they don’t. That’s just not true.
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Injians ... everywhere ... circle the wagons...
rfurlong

Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by rfurlong »

Airbus sell about 1/4 of their planes to Irish leasing companies ..... so if France wants to lay claim to Googles French Market ad revenues (that are booked in Dublin), then Ireland will happily lay claim to the tax due on a quarter of airbus’s revenue. Globalization is a motherfvcker for the left aint it :lol:

The arms length principle of global corporate taxation is not disappearing anytime soon, and the guardian would do well to read up on the Irish economy frankly

We have a government counter cyclical spending splurge ongoing here, driven by booming CT receipts .... we’d all love for it to stop to be honest, as it would reduce growth from 5% per annum to a more sustainable 3.5% per annum

How anyone thinks that 3.5% trend growth (without these bumper tax receipts) would amount to an economic collapse, is beyond me ..... but then again the Brit media has been an economically illiterate, perpetually exploding clowns car ever since the brexit vote
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Zico
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by Zico »

Apple pays more tax in Ireland per annum than the Orange scumbag super successful billionaire has ever paid. :shock:

Tax evasion is a top down problem, no?
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HKCJ
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by HKCJ »

It’s kind of interesting to me that when I studied economics over 20 years ago the main concern regarding membership within a large common trade area was a fiscal leapfrogging with regards interest rates. The argument being member states could lower their interest rate with relative impunity so would constantly outdo each other yet I’d say that’s not really been a major issue at all in the way that the race to 0% corporate tax has been. I don’t think anyone could have predicted the murkiness of sovereign boundaries in a digital age when it came to taxation.
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Yourmother
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by Yourmother »

CM11 wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:We charge 12.5%.

That's our corp tax rate
Well...
Well, what?

Any tax we lay claim to is charged that. The dispute is over what we can lay claim to.
A sure solid 12.5% or ...
Ireland, whose corporate tax rate of 12.5 percent is already one of the lowest in the developed world, said it would cut that rate in half for a new tax category — one covering revenue pegged to companies’ patents and other intellectual property.


Companies that could be poised to benefit include Apple, Google, Facebook and Microsoft — all of which have significant operations in Ireland and have troves of intellectual property that might be eligible for the new tax treatment.
Biffer29
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by Biffer29 »

Lots of dumb irishers on here missing the point that their government income relies on these guys so heavily and all it takes is another country to cut corporation tax further and they’ll be gone.
bimboman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by bimboman »

Zico wrote:Apple pays more tax in Ireland per annum than the Orange scumbag super successful billionaire has ever paid. :shock:

Tax evasion is a top down problem, no?

That makes little or no sense.
bimboman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by bimboman »

Very insightful. As usual.

Sorry, I genuinely thought you were making a funny.
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Gavin Duffy
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Whiny poms. We should could it to 2.5% for ten years post Brexit for the craic.
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A5D5E5
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by A5D5E5 »

I have no issue with the Irish corporation tax rate - there is nothing stopping other countries competing with them if they think it is a better solution than their current approach to corporate incentives and taxation (and the two are of course inextricably linked).

However, I think Ireland needs to be careful here - this looks to me like the first shots in the "EU wide tax harmonisation" battle that is inevitable at some point. No way this ends here.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by eldanielfire »

rfurlong wrote:Airbus sell about 1/4 of their planes to Irish leasing companies ..... so if France wants to lay claim to Googles French Market ad revenues (that are booked in Dublin), then Ireland will happily lay claim to the tax due on a quarter of airbus’s revenue. Globalization is a motherfvcker for the left aint it :lol:

The arms length principle of global corporate taxation is not disappearing anytime soon, and the guardian would do well to read up on the Irish economy frankly

We have a government counter cyclical spending splurge ongoing here, driven by booming CT receipts .... we’d all love for it to stop to be honest, as it would reduce growth from 5% per annum to a more sustainable 3.5% per annum

How anyone thinks that 3.5% trend growth (without these bumper tax receipts) would amount to an economic collapse, is beyond me ..... but then again the Brit media has been an economically illiterate, perpetually exploding clowns car ever since the brexit vote
I don't think the UK media is economically literate, I think they completely understand economics, they have to be to write and quote so selectively in favour of one political ideal as they do. The UK media are written by journalists to inform, they are written by party activists to get votes on their side.
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danny_fitz
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by danny_fitz »

Biffer29 wrote:Lots of dumb irishers on here missing the point that their government income relies on these guys so heavily and all it takes is another country to cut corporation tax further and they’ll be gone.
I'm sure factors like having a highly educated and skilled workforce, labour costs below the Europe average, being the only English speaking country in the eurozone, a pro business low bureaucracy start-up friendly environment, having a young population, barrier free access to over 500 million customers in Europe and having a focus on knowledge intensive industries and being a R&D hub have no bearing on FDI in Ireland.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by Duff Paddy »

Biffer29 wrote:Lots of dumb irishers on here missing the point that their government income relies on these guys so heavily and all it takes is another country to cut corporation tax further and they’ll be gone.
What’s stopping you so
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Duff Paddy
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by Duff Paddy »

A5D5E5 wrote:I have no issue with the Irish corporation tax rate - there is nothing stopping other countries competing with them if they think it is a better solution than their current approach to corporate incentives and taxation (and the two are of course inextricably linked).

However, I think Ireland needs to be careful here - this looks to me like the first shots in the "EU wide tax harmonisation" battle that is inevitable at some point. No way this ends here.
First shots? They’ve been after us for over a decade. Vestager tried to get us on competition law. Brexit is our biggest issue as we’re going to lose our closest ally but in general there’s no appetite for tax harmonisation in the EU
bimboman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by bimboman »

Gavin Duffy wrote:Whiny poms. We should could it to 2.5% for ten years post Brexit for the craic.

Is raise the word missing ?
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CM11
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by CM11 »

bimboman wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:Whiny poms. We should could it to 2.5% for ten years post Brexit for the craic.

Is raise the word missing ?
Make your mind up, are we raking it in or not?
bimboman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by bimboman »

Duff Paddy wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:I have no issue with the Irish corporation tax rate - there is nothing stopping other countries competing with them if they think it is a better solution than their current approach to corporate incentives and taxation (and the two are of course inextricably linked).

However, I think Ireland needs to be careful here - this looks to me like the first shots in the "EU wide tax harmonisation" battle that is inevitable at some point. No way this ends here.
First shots? They’ve been after us for over a decade. Vestager tried to get us on competition law. Brexit is our biggest issue as we’re going to lose our closest ally but in general there’s no appetite for tax harmonisation in the EU

They’re making it a priority now though.
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camroc1
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by camroc1 »

bimboman wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:I have no issue with the Irish corporation tax rate - there is nothing stopping other countries competing with them if they think it is a better solution than their current approach to corporate incentives and taxation (and the two are of course inextricably linked).

However, I think Ireland needs to be careful here - this looks to me like the first shots in the "EU wide tax harmonisation" battle that is inevitable at some point. No way this ends here.
First shots? They’ve been after us for over a decade. Vestager tried to get us on competition law. Brexit is our biggest issue as we’re going to lose our closest ally but in general there’s no appetite for tax harmonisation in the EU

They’re making it a priority now though.
And 13 states opposed, and the Germans sat on the fence (abstained) and the proposal was beaten.
bimboman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by bimboman »

CM11 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:Whiny poms. We should could it to 2.5% for ten years post Brexit for the craic.

Is raise the word missing ?
Make your mind up, are we raking it in or not?

Your a small nation successfully leveraging infrastructure and more importantly education levels, but we can’t all sit round and pretend that part of the deal Ireland offers is sweetheart Tax structure and levels.
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The Sun God
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by The Sun God »

Biffer29 wrote:Lots of dumb irishers on here missing the point that their government income relies on these guys so heavily and all it takes is another country to cut corporation tax further and they’ll be gone.
Please do tell.
Most of the smaller EU Countries have similar CT rates to us and some even lower. Ireland's low corporate tax rate predates our EEC membership by about a decade...... so tell me, oh enlightened one, where are we going ?
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CM11
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by CM11 »

bimboman wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:I have no issue with the Irish corporation tax rate - there is nothing stopping other countries competing with them if they think it is a better solution than their current approach to corporate incentives and taxation (and the two are of course inextricably linked).

However, I think Ireland needs to be careful here - this looks to me like the first shots in the "EU wide tax harmonisation" battle that is inevitable at some point. No way this ends here.
First shots? They’ve been after us for over a decade. Vestager tried to get us on competition law. Brexit is our biggest issue as we’re going to lose our closest ally but in general there’s no appetite for tax harmonisation in the EU

They’re making it a priority now though.
Who is 'they'? They doesn't even include you, yet. We're all part of the same group. So, did you mean 'we'?
bimboman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by bimboman »

camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:I have no issue with the Irish corporation tax rate - there is nothing stopping other countries competing with them if they think it is a better solution than their current approach to corporate incentives and taxation (and the two are of course inextricably linked).

However, I think Ireland needs to be careful here - this looks to me like the first shots in the "EU wide tax harmonisation" battle that is inevitable at some point. No way this ends here.
First shots? They’ve been after us for over a decade. Vestager tried to get us on competition law. Brexit is our biggest issue as we’re going to lose our closest ally but in general there’s no appetite for tax harmonisation in the EU

They’re making it a priority now though.
And 13 states opposed, and the Germans sat on the fence (abstained) and the proposal was beaten.


It’s going to happen .
bimboman
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by bimboman »

The Sun God wrote:
Biffer29 wrote:Lots of dumb irishers on here missing the point that their government income relies on these guys so heavily and all it takes is another country to cut corporation tax further and they’ll be gone.
Please do tell.
Most of the smaller EU Countries have similar CT rates to us and some even lower. Ireland's low corporate tax rate predates our EEC membership by about a decade...... so tell me, oh enlightened one, where are we going ?

Oh “stop” with this bullshit argument about it being historical, your corporation taxes have been much higher in the last 30 years.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by eldanielfire »

Maybe this board should be titled 'Bimboman knows more than everyone on everything and is still wrong'
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The Sun God
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Re: Ireland to continue to let Apple avoid tax

Post by The Sun God »

I love how the Brit media has a massive hard on for us these days....it's quite cute really.
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