Sarries facing automatic relegation

All things Rugby
Post Reply
User avatar
Joost
Posts: 4193
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Joost »

So says RugbyPass, anyway - have failed to get under the salary cap...
16 January, 7:43pm
Tonight Saracens stand on the brink of automatic relegation from the Premiership after apparently failing in their bid to bring the club under the salary cap.

Meetings were held this week between the Premiership clubs, and while discussions are theoretically ongoing, RugbyPass understands that Saracens are now resigned to being relegated automatically.

Saracens players are being called to an official meeting tomorrow, where club officials will brief them on the discussions.

Rumours circulating English rugby tonight are that an unprecedented move that would see the champions relegated directly to the Championship, regardless of their total league points tally at the end of the current season, is the most likely outcome.

In November the club made headlines when they had 35 points deducted and were fined £5.4 million for three successive years of salary caps breaches. That now looks like the least of the club’s troubles as they face the prospect of a year in the Championship and a player exodus.

Continue reading below…

WATCH: Schalk Brits spoke to RugbyPass about his experiences bringing the William Webb Ellis trophy back to South Africa.

Video Spacer
Earlier this month RugbyPass revealed that Saracens’ newly appointed CEO, Edward Griffiths, had told players that job and salary cuts were imminent at the club to ensure it falls into line completely with the salary cap for the 2019/20 season.

However, the process of removing players’ salaries from their club has proved more difficult than anticipated, and the club is set to come in over this season’s salary cap despite their best efforts.

Saracens job cuts Edward Griffiths
Edward Griffiths, the new Saracens chief executive and Brendan Venter

Agents in the UK are now scrambling to find clubs for worried Saracens’ players, many of whom could leave the club under relegation clauses in their current contracts – should the club be relegated. Rumours suggesting that Griffiths has been replaced as CEO of the club are untrue and wide of the mark.

One Premiership club official who spoke to RugbyPass today off record said that the North London outfit had been found to be once again in breach of the cap, and that it was his understanding that the club is to be relegated.

Under current regulations, clubs can have all their points removed. Within the salary cap regulations framework, there is an option of reducing up to 35 of the club’s total points at the end of the season, as has already happened to Saracens. However, the regulations state that this framework is merely a ‘starting point’.

According to their official document on the matter: “The disciplinary panel shall have the discretion to increase or decrease (to zero if appropriate).”

With Saracens on the verge of breaking salary cap for a fourth successive season, it seems that new Premiership CEO Darren Childs is eager to send a message to clubs who might consider flaunting the cap in future.

Speaking earlier this month to BBC Sport in his first interview since his appointment last September, Childs said: “It is absolutely a possibility that for serious breaches in the future it could include things like relegation and withdrawal of titles and other things that currently the regulations don’t allow us to do.”

“We have to make sure that we don’t do this again or end up in this position again whether it’s through ambiguity or whether it has been deliberate.”

Premiership Rugby announced in December that its salary cap regulations were being reviewed by former government minister Lord Myners to ensure a “continued level playing field for all clubs in the future”.

“I genuinely hope that the message is coming out loud and clear from Premiership Rugby that we are really serious about enforcing regulations,” stated Childs.

Saracens’ nightmare season looks like it is about to get even worse.
Last edited by Joost on Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
fatcat
Posts: 14838
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by fatcat »

Why is there no masturbating smiley on this bored?
User avatar
Gavin Duffy
Posts: 16382
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Image
User avatar
blindcider
Posts: 8197
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by blindcider »

Gavin Duffy wrote:Image
could be interesting if they do an about-face with nothing to play for domestically and go solely after the ECC...

Be careful what you wish for
User avatar
Gavin Duffy
Posts: 16382
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Gavin Duffy »

blindcider wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:Image
could be interesting if they do an about-face with nothing to play for domestically and go solely after the ECC...

Be careful what you wish for
I have no skin in the the NTHCSBH at this stage.
User avatar
Floppykid
Posts: 31544
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: SOB>Todd

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Floppykid »

Image
User avatar
Mr. Very Popular
Posts: 20930
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:58 pm

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Mr. Very Popular »

I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
User avatar
HighKingLeinster
Posts: 22124
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:58 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by HighKingLeinster »

fatcat wrote:Why is there no masturbating smiley on this bored?
Image
User avatar
CM11
Posts: 61098
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by CM11 »

Would be very funny if they won the HEC and were relegated.

Anyway, clear plan is relegate and then ring fence. Good plan.
User avatar
fatcat
Posts: 14838
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by fatcat »

To be fair Sarries have done fck all wrong [/Stephen Jones]
Crash_12
Posts: 12895
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:30 pm

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Crash_12 »

Ha.
Last edited by Crash_12 on Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Winnie
Posts: 17155
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:18 pm

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Winnie »

Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
It’s not the big name players they did alright out of it and will not have any trouble getting another club

It’s the lesser names and club staff who will suffer and I do feel sorry for them

But yes Fûck Wray
User avatar
HighKingLeinster
Posts: 22124
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:58 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by HighKingLeinster »

Ffs crash you can see that picture from space
Crash_12
Posts: 12895
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:30 pm

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Crash_12 »

HighKingLeinster wrote:Ffs crash you can see that picture from space
Still not as big as Rob Baxter’s grin tonight.
User avatar
Floppykid
Posts: 31544
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: SOB>Todd

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Floppykid »

I'll raise a glass of Wolfpack to that!
User avatar
Jeff the Bear
Posts: 19289
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Jeff the Bear »

However, the process of removing players’ salaries from their club has proved more difficult than anticipated, and the club is set to come in over this season’s salary cap despite their best efforts.
Would love to know exactly what those 'efforts' were.

P.S.

Image
User avatar
fishfoodie
Posts: 5797
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by fishfoodie »

Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads, they must have had some inkling that the side deals were dodgy; & it's not like Sarries had a spotless record on the salary cap prior to the fine & points deduction !
User avatar
PourSomeRuggerOnMe
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by PourSomeRuggerOnMe »

At least they'll go down doing what they love.

Cheating.

*howls mournfully*
User avatar
Floppykid
Posts: 31544
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: SOB>Todd

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Floppykid »

Image
bimboman
Posts: 68627
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by bimboman »

The Leinster supporters on here. :lol:
User avatar
CM11
Posts: 61098
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by CM11 »

Don't quite understand how they can already determine that they'll be over the cap unless they've front loaded some deal and have managed to already be over it. Or so close to it that they can't just ask the players to take a big reduction in salary so they can at least get to next season in the Premiership. Probably doesn't make sense for some of the big names who will just lose out but a lot of the players would make more in the long run not being paid much till next season.
User avatar
Jeff the Bear
Posts: 19289
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Jeff the Bear »

fishfoodie wrote:
Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads,
So that's what, about 50-75% of them at least? All joking aside, I bet this will come as a massive shock to a load of those players.
User avatar
Mr. Very Popular
Posts: 20930
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:58 pm

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Mr. Very Popular »

fishfoodie wrote:
Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads, they must have had some inkling that the side deals were dodgy; & it's not like Sarries had a spotless record on the salary cap prior to the fine & points deduction !
Not every player was on a huge wedge or had side deals to bump them up.
User avatar
Floppykid
Posts: 31544
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: SOB>Todd

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Floppykid »

Image
User avatar
Edinburgh01
Posts: 5667
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Edinburgh01 »

fishfoodie wrote:
Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads, they must have had some inkling that the side deals were dodgy; & it's not like Sarries had a spotless record on the salary cap prior to the fine & points deduction !
Most of the players will have no business life experience beyond rugby. That naivety means they will believe what the professional advisers etc tell them as they simply do not know any different so believe the 'experts'.

Edit
At this stage I do actually feel sorry for Saracens. They sinned, they were caught, they were punished. Lowering their salary bill to get under the cap is not something they can do quickly or easily due to player contracts having to be honoured / re-negotiated. That is not a quick fix.

Having said that, titles they won while cheating should be rescinded.
User avatar
Margin_Walker
Posts: 12958
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Margin_Walker »

There seriously needs to be some transparency to this whole process. We're still assuming it's just the joint ventures taking them over rather than anything else.

It wasn't a private arbitration. Even the judge involved has been in the press stating than his summary should be released.

Whatever happens this time, it needs to be properly explained by the league.
sockwithaticket
Posts: 6352
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:35 am
Location: England

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by sockwithaticket »

Feels a bit too much like rumour at the moment to get too excited, but I really hope it's true.


I feel bad for nice fans on here like Plastic Sarrie, but some players (Lozowski in particular) have been a bit blase and tone deaf in their public comments, not seeming to understand why people would be pissed off them, and Wray was anything but contrite until the PR people came on board. Systemic cheating of the cap is a big deal and it needs to be treated as such.
Crash_12 wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:Ffs crash you can see that picture from space
Still not as big as Rob Baxter’s grin tonight.
You'll be able to see Tony Rowe's from Pluto.
User avatar
Mr. Very Popular
Posts: 20930
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:58 pm

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Mr. Very Popular »

Edinburgh01 wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads, they must have had some inkling that the side deals were dodgy; & it's not like Sarries had a spotless record on the salary cap prior to the fine & points deduction !
Most of the players will have no business life experience beyond rugby. That naivety means they will believe what the professional advisers etc tell them as they simply do not know any different so believe the 'experts'.

Edit
At this stage I do actually feel sorry for Saracens. They sinned, they were caught, they were punished. Lowering their salary bill to get under the cap is not something they can do quickly or easily due to player contracts having to be honoured / re-negotiated. That is not a quick fix.

Having said that, titles they won while cheating should be rescinded.
Agree with them losing the titles, they need to be kicked out of the HEC and Munster should be given all the points from their games.
User avatar
fishfoodie
Posts: 5797
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by fishfoodie »

Mr. Very Popular wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads, they must have had some inkling that the side deals were dodgy; & it's not like Sarries had a spotless record on the salary cap prior to the fine & points deduction !
Not every player was on a huge wedge or had side deals to bump them up.
Okay; fair enough. For those players, yeah; I do sympathize, as they were only benefiting from the cheating, by being part of a winning setup. Financially, they were only marginally benefiting, compared to the guys who pushed the club outside the cap.
User avatar
P in VG
Posts: 2793
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:22 pm
Location: Gogledd Cymru

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by P in VG »

Someone check in on the Walrus
User avatar
danthefan
Posts: 23072
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by danthefan »

Is there any other source to this than RugbyPass?
User avatar
eldanielfire
Posts: 31363
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by eldanielfire »

fatcat wrote:Why is there no masturbating smiley on this bored?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
Saint
Posts: 15686
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: South Oxfordshire

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Saint »

danthefan wrote:Is there any other source to this than RugbyPass?
Daily Mail reporting that Saracens were given two.optiond

1 - return all titles and trophies from seasons where they are known to have been over the cap

2 - take relegation this season
User avatar
eldanielfire
Posts: 31363
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by eldanielfire »

P in VG wrote:Someone check in on the Walrus
When I think of him right now

Image
User avatar
Jeff the Bear
Posts: 19289
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by Jeff the Bear »

Saint wrote:
danthefan wrote:Is there any other source to this than RugbyPass?
Daily Mail reporting that Saracens were given two.optiond

1 - return all titles and trophies from seasons where they are known to have been over the cap

2 - take relegation this season
Lulz...totally brutal. :lol:
spookly
Posts: 1123
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:46 pm

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by spookly »

The only people deserving of sympathy are any players and staff genuinely unaware of the cheating. Can't be many of them, as everyone else with eyeballs and a brain could see that they were taking the piss.

A 35 point deduction was never a harsh enough penalty for cheating their way to multiple championships. Maybe a year in the championship will focus the minds.
User avatar
EverReady
Posts: 35211
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by EverReady »

Look Nige was only trying to get on a level playing field with Leinster and all the other union owned sides /KidA
User avatar
eldanielfire
Posts: 31363
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by eldanielfire »

Crash_12 wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:Ffs crash you can see that picture from space
Still not as big as Rob Baxter’s grin tonight.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

He's probably got the biggest boner of his life.
User avatar
eldanielfire
Posts: 31363
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by eldanielfire »

Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Yeah, good point. I probably don't feel so much for the star players, but the squad ones certainly.
User avatar
fatheralice
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Sarries facing automatic relegation

Post by fatheralice »

Players will be able to be paid their agreed wages if they are relegated, as there is no cap in the championship.

Maybe the players have stood their ground? Would be a good time to do it given where we are in the RWC cycle.
Post Reply