Sarries facing automatic relegation

Joost · Post by **Joost** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:01 pm

So says RugbyPass, anyway - have failed to get under the salary cap...

16 January, 7:43pm
Tonight Saracens stand on the brink of automatic relegation from the Premiership after apparently failing in their bid to bring the club under the salary cap.

Meetings were held this week between the Premiership clubs, and while discussions are theoretically ongoing, RugbyPass understands that Saracens are now resigned to being relegated automatically.

Saracens players are being called to an official meeting tomorrow, where club officials will brief them on the discussions.

Rumours circulating English rugby tonight are that an unprecedented move that would see the champions relegated directly to the Championship, regardless of their total league points tally at the end of the current season, is the most likely outcome.

In November the club made headlines when they had 35 points deducted and were fined £5.4 million for three successive years of salary caps breaches. That now looks like the least of the club’s troubles as they face the prospect of a year in the Championship and a player exodus.

Continue reading below…

WATCH: Schalk Brits spoke to RugbyPass about his experiences bringing the William Webb Ellis trophy back to South Africa.

Video Spacer
Earlier this month RugbyPass revealed that Saracens’ newly appointed CEO, Edward Griffiths, had told players that job and salary cuts were imminent at the club to ensure it falls into line completely with the salary cap for the 2019/20 season.

However, the process of removing players’ salaries from their club has proved more difficult than anticipated, and the club is set to come in over this season’s salary cap despite their best efforts.

Saracens job cuts Edward Griffiths
Edward Griffiths, the new Saracens chief executive and Brendan Venter

Agents in the UK are now scrambling to find clubs for worried Saracens’ players, many of whom could leave the club under relegation clauses in their current contracts – should the club be relegated. Rumours suggesting that Griffiths has been replaced as CEO of the club are untrue and wide of the mark.

One Premiership club official who spoke to RugbyPass today off record said that the North London outfit had been found to be once again in breach of the cap, and that it was his understanding that the club is to be relegated.

Under current regulations, clubs can have all their points removed. Within the salary cap regulations framework, there is an option of reducing up to 35 of the club’s total points at the end of the season, as has already happened to Saracens. However, the regulations state that this framework is merely a ‘starting point’.

According to their official document on the matter: “The disciplinary panel shall have the discretion to increase or decrease (to zero if appropriate).”

With Saracens on the verge of breaking salary cap for a fourth successive season, it seems that new Premiership CEO Darren Childs is eager to send a message to clubs who might consider flaunting the cap in future.

Speaking earlier this month to BBC Sport in his first interview since his appointment last September, Childs said: “It is absolutely a possibility that for serious breaches in the future it could include things like relegation and withdrawal of titles and other things that currently the regulations don’t allow us to do.”

“We have to make sure that we don’t do this again or end up in this position again whether it’s through ambiguity or whether it has been deliberate.”

Premiership Rugby announced in December that its salary cap regulations were being reviewed by former government minister Lord Myners to ensure a “continued level playing field for all clubs in the future”.

“I genuinely hope that the message is coming out loud and clear from Premiership Rugby that we are really serious about enforcing regulations,” stated Childs.

Saracens’ nightmare season looks like it is about to get even worse.

fatcat · Post by **fatcat** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:03 pm

Why is there no masturbating smiley on this bored?

Gavin Duffy · Post by **Gavin Duffy** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:03 pm

blindcider · Post by **blindcider** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:14 pm

Gavin Duffy wrote:

could be interesting if they do an about-face with nothing to play for domestically and go solely after the ECC...

Be careful what you wish for

Gavin Duffy · Post by **Gavin Duffy** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:16 pm

blindcider wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:
could be interesting if they do an about-face with nothing to play for domestically and go solely after the ECC...

Be careful what you wish for

I have no skin in the the NTHCSBH at this stage.

Floppykid · Post by **Floppykid** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:18 pm

Mr. Very Popular · Post by **Mr. Very Popular** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:18 pm

I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.

HighKingLeinster · Post by **HighKingLeinster** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:19 pm

fatcat wrote:Why is there no masturbating smiley on this bored?

CM11 · Post by **CM11** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:19 pm

Would be very funny if they won the HEC and were relegated.

Anyway, clear plan is relegate and then ring fence. Good plan.

fatcat · Post by **fatcat** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:19 pm

To be fair Sarries have done fck all wrong [/Stephen Jones]

Crash_12 · Post by **Crash_12** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:20 pm

Winnie · Post by **Winnie** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:20 pm

Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.

It’s not the big name players they did alright out of it and will not have any trouble getting another club

It’s the lesser names and club staff who will suffer and I do feel sorry for them

But yes Fûck Wray

HighKingLeinster · Post by **HighKingLeinster** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:21 pm

Ffs crash you can see that picture from space

Crash_12 · Post by **Crash_12** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:22 pm

HighKingLeinster wrote:Ffs crash you can see that picture from space

Still not as big as Rob Baxter’s grin tonight.

Floppykid · Post by **Floppykid** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:22 pm

I'll raise a glass of Wolfpack to that!

Jeff the Bear · Post by **Jeff the Bear** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:22 pm

However, the process of removing players’ salaries from their club has proved more difficult than anticipated, and the club is set to come in over this season’s salary cap despite their best efforts.

Would love to know exactly what those 'efforts' were.

P.S.

fishfoodie · Post by **fishfoodie** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:25 pm

Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.

Unless they are complete meat heads, they must have had some inkling that the side deals were dodgy; & it's not like Sarries had a spotless record on the salary cap prior to the fine & points deduction !

PourSomeRuggerOnMe · Post by **PourSomeRuggerOnMe** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:25 pm

At least they'll go down doing what they love.

Cheating.

*howls mournfully*

Floppykid · Post by **Floppykid** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:25 pm

bimboman · Post by **bimboman** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:26 pm

The Leinster supporters on here.

CM11 · Post by **CM11** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:27 pm

Don't quite understand how they can already determine that they'll be over the cap unless they've front loaded some deal and have managed to already be over it. Or so close to it that they can't just ask the players to take a big reduction in salary so they can at least get to next season in the Premiership. Probably doesn't make sense for some of the big names who will just lose out but a lot of the players would make more in the long run not being paid much till next season.

Jeff the Bear · Post by **Jeff the Bear** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:28 pm

fishfoodie wrote:
Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads,

So that's what, about 50-75% of them at least? All joking aside, I bet this will come as a massive shock to a load of those players.

Mr. Very Popular · Post by **Mr. Very Popular** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:28 pm

fishfoodie wrote:
Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads, they must have had some inkling that the side deals were dodgy; & it's not like Sarries had a spotless record on the salary cap prior to the fine & points deduction !

Not every player was on a huge wedge or had side deals to bump them up.

Floppykid · Post by **Floppykid** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:33 pm

Edinburgh01 · Post by **Edinburgh01** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:33 pm

fishfoodie wrote:
Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads, they must have had some inkling that the side deals were dodgy; & it's not like Sarries had a spotless record on the salary cap prior to the fine & points deduction !

Most of the players will have no business life experience beyond rugby. That naivety means they will believe what the professional advisers etc tell them as they simply do not know any different so believe the 'experts'.

Edit
At this stage I do actually feel sorry for Saracens. They sinned, they were caught, they were punished. Lowering their salary bill to get under the cap is not something they can do quickly or easily due to player contracts having to be honoured / re-negotiated. That is not a quick fix.

Having said that, titles they won while cheating should be rescinded.

Margin_Walker · Post by **Margin_Walker** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:37 pm

There seriously needs to be some transparency to this whole process. We're still assuming it's just the joint ventures taking them over rather than anything else.

It wasn't a private arbitration. Even the judge involved has been in the press stating than his summary should be released.

Whatever happens this time, it needs to be properly explained by the league.

sockwithaticket · Post by **sockwithaticket** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:41 pm

Feels a bit too much like rumour at the moment to get too excited, but I really hope it's true.

I feel bad for nice fans on here like Plastic Sarrie, but some players (Lozowski in particular) have been a bit blase and tone deaf in their public comments, not seeming to understand why people would be pissed off them, and Wray was anything but contrite until the PR people came on board. Systemic cheating of the cap is a big deal and it needs to be treated as such.

Crash_12 wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:Ffs crash you can see that picture from space
Still not as big as Rob Baxter’s grin tonight.

You'll be able to see Tony Rowe's from Pluto.

Mr. Very Popular · Post by **Mr. Very Popular** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:43 pm

Edinburgh01 wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads, they must have had some inkling that the side deals were dodgy; & it's not like Sarries had a spotless record on the salary cap prior to the fine & points deduction !
Most of the players will have no business life experience beyond rugby. That naivety means they will believe what the professional advisers etc tell them as they simply do not know any different so believe the 'experts'.

Edit
At this stage I do actually feel sorry for Saracens. They sinned, they were caught, they were punished. Lowering their salary bill to get under the cap is not something they can do quickly or easily due to player contracts having to be honoured / re-negotiated. That is not a quick fix.

Having said that, titles they won while cheating should be rescinded.

Agree with them losing the titles, they need to be kicked out of the HEC and Munster should be given all the points from their games.

fishfoodie · Post by **fishfoodie** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:45 pm

Mr. Very Popular wrote:
fishfoodie wrote:
Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.
Unless they are complete meat heads, they must have had some inkling that the side deals were dodgy; & it's not like Sarries had a spotless record on the salary cap prior to the fine & points deduction !
Not every player was on a huge wedge or had side deals to bump them up.

Okay; fair enough. For those players, yeah; I do sympathize, as they were only benefiting from the cheating, by being part of a winning setup. Financially, they were only marginally benefiting, compared to the guys who pushed the club outside the cap.

P in VG · Post by **P in VG** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:48 pm

Someone check in on the Walrus

danthefan · Post by **danthefan** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:49 pm

Is there any other source to this than RugbyPass?

eldanielfire · Post by **eldanielfire** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:55 pm

fatcat wrote:Why is there no masturbating smiley on this bored?

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:59 pm

danthefan wrote:Is there any other source to this than RugbyPass?

Daily Mail reporting that Saracens were given two.optiond

1 - return all titles and trophies from seasons where they are known to have been over the cap

2 - take relegation this season

eldanielfire · Post by **eldanielfire** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:00 pm

P in VG wrote:Someone check in on the Walrus

When I think of him right now

Jeff the Bear · Post by **Jeff the Bear** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:00 pm

Saint wrote:
danthefan wrote:Is there any other source to this than RugbyPass?
Daily Mail reporting that Saracens were given two.optiond

1 - return all titles and trophies from seasons where they are known to have been over the cap

2 - take relegation this season

Lulz...totally brutal.

spookly · Post by **spookly** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:01 pm

The only people deserving of sympathy are any players and staff genuinely unaware of the cheating. Can't be many of them, as everyone else with eyeballs and a brain could see that they were taking the piss.

A 35 point deduction was never a harsh enough penalty for cheating their way to multiple championships. Maybe a year in the championship will focus the minds.

EverReady · Post by **EverReady** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:01 pm

Look Nige was only trying to get on a level playing field with Leinster and all the other union owned sides /KidA

eldanielfire · Post by **eldanielfire** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:02 pm

Crash_12 wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:Ffs crash you can see that picture from space
Still not as big as Rob Baxter’s grin tonight.

He's probably got the biggest boner of his life.

eldanielfire · Post by **eldanielfire** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:03 pm

Mr. Very Popular wrote:I honestly feel a bit sorry for the players, fück Wray.

Yeah, good point. I probably don't feel so much for the star players, but the squad ones certainly.

fatheralice · Post by **fatheralice** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:03 pm

Players will be able to be paid their agreed wages if they are relegated, as there is no cap in the championship.

Maybe the players have stood their ground? Would be a good time to do it given where we are in the RWC cycle.