Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

[sorCrer]

I know it's been mentioned but 'Operation Last Gasp'

[Derwyn]

So they've addressed the economy today, but nothing for further preventative measures

It buys 'em a day.

[happyhooker]

Did I miss the bit addressing renters and self employed?

You did not. On rent, they're presumably hoping for the Landlords to pass up on collecting rent...

Whoopee skip.

That'll be fine then.

[Double]

Is there any proof that shutting the borders works, unless you have zero local transmission?

"Works"?

It certainly stops cross-border transmission. Obviously it won't stop local transmission. Not sure what you are asking.

Whether it makes a difference to the spread of the virus. It's an interesting question. It's like baffles in cylinders. It stops large scale movements but the amount of energy in the system is the same. Not a question to be easily answered on a forum where treadmills cause chaos.

Did that plane on the treadmill take off, I have convinced myself it did

Watch yourself, I suddenly have plenty of free time to have this argument all over again.

[Derwyn]

I know it's been mentioned but 'Operation Last Gasp'

[RodneyRegis]

Did I miss the bit addressing renters and self employed?

You did not. On rent, they're presumably hoping for the Landlords to pass up on collecting rent...

Whoopee skip.

That'll be fine then.

Or they are yet to come up with anything.

I know they've f**ked up thus far, but give them chance. They appear to be sorting things.

[paddyor]

So they've addressed the economy today, but nothing for further preventative measures

There's a good case to be made addressing each separately. Let the news cycle run with the economic stuff for a day or two. It's good news and it's needed

[paddyor]

The magic money tree has been well and truly found

What would you rather?

At least this spending isn’t in top of a trillion for public sector pay.


Personally I don’t agree with it. This is scary debt and collapse of sterling.

Did I say it was wrong?

With no businesses left afterwards, wouldn't there be a collapse of sterling anyway?

[JM2K6]

So they've addressed the economy today, but nothing for further preventative measures

There's a good case to be made addressing each separately. Let the news cycle run with the economic stuff for a day or two. It's good news and it's needed

The news cycle should come secondary to preventative measures where for each 24 hours that pass, the numbers look more and more bleak.

[RodneyRegis]

So they've addressed the economy today, but nothing for further preventative measures

There's a good case to be made addressing each separately. Let the news cycle run with the economic stuff for a day or two. It's good news and it's needed

Yeah, some very good stuff there. Looks like they are going to help businesses. Hope they will help individuals next.

[Botha Boy]

Do you not think that a lot of people are just able to accept that it is a unique, evolving situation and there will be mistakes and changes in policy. We can't all have a 10/10 response like the septics.

Totally agree. The reason why we're arguing is because of a small number of people refusing to coutenance the Govt making any mistakes or being forced to abandon previous plans. I'm not trying to slaughter the govt here but we've had people be pretty snide about everyone else "knowing better than the UK's experts" and, well...

zzzz - in addition to Raggs' post, they're never going to say they should have done more earlier. It's not that kind of analysis. The WHO and all those pesky foreign scientists said it though. Thing is, we had loads of data on the virus - from the Asian countries, particularly from China who opened up all their data for other countries. We didn't really need to try and go it alone.

As someone who has no dog in this fight there has been a noticeable flurry of Irish posters saying over and over how stupid and terrible the UK strategy has been so as to have some sort of gotcha moment when/ if a ton of people die.

We've a land border with them. It directly impacts us and compromises our own efforts.

They are getting back on track at the moment ... but if they go wrong, we are seriously impacted.

I realise it’s boring for the Observers. But tough, it’s not tiddlywinks, you know ...

[Raggs]

Another 3.5k increase for Italy.

and 345 more dead

Think at this stage it's the death rate that needs to be looked at rather than cases as Raggs could be right that it's not like for like. Just using new cases, that's still a positive trend in the right direction.

I just tweeted the italian who posted the graph of italian cases. He retweeted my reply, so lets hope someone can get an answer.

[message #2527204]

If it wasn't for Twatter and the incredulous uproar there, the government would probably have pressed ahead with operation herd immunity.

It wasn't only Twitter. The real world was in uproar. Twitter is just where a lot of them meet.

But Monty!

Of course, we've never thrown lives away in war before with pigheaded thinking that deserved to have a light shone on it...

Hooray for twatter hysterics. Changes government policy if you twat enough. (Pretty sure they took their advice from mumsnet, if truth be told)

Incredible that you still have this much chutzpah despite everything that's happened and how much you've misunderstood and how much misinformation you've posted. Give it a rest.

Well I mainly disagree with most of what you post for the exactly the same reasons. Namely misunderstanding and consequent misinformation.

You give it a rest.

[DeDoc]

Another 3.5k increase for Italy.

and 345 more dead

Think at this stage it's the death rate that needs to be looked at rather than cases as Raggs could be right that it's not like for like. Just using new cases, that's still a positive trend in the right direction.

Death rate increase in Italy slowing as well it appears. Some good news.

[JM2K6]

Well I totally disagree with most of what you pray for the exactly the same reasons. Namely misunderstanding and consequent misinformation.

You give it a rest.

No mate, you've been dominating this thread yelling at everyone that the UK's approach was exactly the same as everyone else's, yelling at anyone who disagreed, and repeatedly got involved whenever any criticism was aimed at the govt for their approach and their messaging. Even today, long after everyone else understood what had happened and that the UK was having to dramatically alter course, you kept banging on the same old tired and debunked lines.

You have more posts than anyone else in this thread and you need to think more before posting. You post so much stuff that is just nowhere near true.

[bimboman]

Yes Patrick, what changed?

Edit: Oh, he's going to dodge the question completely again.

This is something that exists in your mind. He answered the question perfectly.

[bimboman]

The magic money tree has been well and truly found

What would you rather?

At least this spending isn’t in top of a trillion for public sector pay.


Personally I don’t agree with it. This is scary debt and collapse of sterling.

Did I say it was wrong?

No, and neither did I say you did.

[RodneyRegis]

Yes Patrick, what changed?

Edit: Oh, he's going to dodge the question completely again.

This is something that exists in your mind. He answered the question perfectly.

Ha.

He was asked what changed in the modelling with specific regard to the ICL document. He said it wasn't so much that the modelling changed, but that we were further up the curve now.

It was a barefaced lie.

[Botha Boy]

I know it's been mentioned but 'Operation Last Gasp'

He’s a Pro ...

[RodneyRegis]

I know it's been mentioned but 'Operation Last Gasp'

He’s a Pro ...

his face when he was asked about it

[message #2527204]

Well I totally disagree with most of what you pray for the exactly the same reasons. Namely misunderstanding and consequent misinformation.

You give it a rest.

No mate, you've been dominating this thread yelling at everyone that the UK's approach was exactly the same as everyone else's, yelling at anyone who disagreed, and repeatedly got involved whenever any criticism was aimed at the govt for their approach and their messaging. Even today, long after everyone else understood what had happened and that the UK was having to dramatically alter course, you kept banging on the same old tired and debunked lines.

You have more posts than anyone else in this thread and you need to think more before posting. You post so much stuff that is just nowhere near true.

Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
Your default stance is to take anything that is clearly stated by the government and its advisors, and say it isn't true. The Piers Morgan of the thread.

[bimboman]

Incredible that you still have this much chutzpah despite everything that's happened and how much you've misunderstood and how much misinformation you've posted. Give it a rest.

More or less chutzpah than starting with a total misrepresentation and using that to set a dishonest narrative?

This is one you win hands down.

[RodneyRegis]

Another 3.5k increase for Italy.

and 345 more dead

Think at this stage it's the death rate that needs to be looked at rather than cases as Raggs could be right that it's not like for like. Just using new cases, that's still a positive trend in the right direction.

Death rate increase in Italy slowing as well it appears. Some good news.

Some might suggest that lock-down is having an effect.

[JM2K6]

Well I totally disagree with most of what you pray for the exactly the same reasons. Namely misunderstanding and consequent misinformation.

You give it a rest.

No mate, you've been dominating this thread yelling at everyone that the UK's approach was exactly the same as everyone else's, yelling at anyone who disagreed, and repeatedly got involved whenever any criticism was aimed at the govt for their approach and their messaging. Even today, long after everyone else understood what had happened and that the UK was having to dramatically alter course, you kept banging on the same old tired and debunked lines.

You have more posts than anyone else in this thread and you need to think more before posting. You post so much stuff that is just nowhere near true.

Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
Your default stance is to take anything that is clearly stated by the government and its advisors, and say it isn't true. The Piers Morgan of the thread.

What's next, "I'm rubber, you're glue"? Christ, man

[bimboman]

Did I miss the bit addressing renters and self employed?

You did not. On rent, they're presumably hoping for the Landlords to pass up on collecting rent...

The banks aren’t passing up the collection of mortgages, they’re delaying it.

[message #2527204]

Yes Patrick, what changed?

Edit: Oh, he's going to dodge the question completely again.

This is something that exists in your mind. He answered the question perfectly.

Ha.

He was asked what changed in the modelling with specific regard to the ICL document. He said it wasn't so much that the modelling changed, but that we were further up the curve now.

It was a barefaced lie.

Another Piers Morgan.

[DeDoc]

Latest Irish figures in. 69 new cases (increase of 30.9%, marginally down on last few days)

Some good news stories from an Irish context

https://twitter.com/OSVentilator - group trying to develop and open source plans for a low-cost ventilator
https://www.siliconrepublic.com/start-u ... oronavirus - built a low cost sterilizing robot for HSE in a week!

[Botha Boy]

Another 3.5k increase for Italy.

and 345 more dead

The new cases number can be variable due to levels of testing, who you test, etc.

But the Deaths are horrible, possible to under-report, but really the number to look at.

Very, very sad.

And I see folks trying to interpret these numbers day by day ... you need at least 3-5 days to see the trend on these numbers given the amount of noise in the data. And if you asked a statistician, they would ask for 30 days + data at least ...

There must be more lessons to learn from the catastrophy in Italy. If you look at the number of cases in Germany and how few fatalities there have been, then comparing the two case-studies of Italy and Germany should be informative.

[Xupi]

Italy figures for today (TBC, got it from a French news site).

31,506 confirmed cases (+12.6%)
2,503 death (+16%)
2,941 cured
2,060 in ICU (+11.3%)

It's the slowest growth rate for known cases since the start of the epidemic in that country, therefore very encouraging. First signs that containment in the cities that have adopted it first are starting to pay off.

The trend should accelerate and the curve flatten in the coming days, and then the ratio of daily death toll should start decreasing too.

Hang in there lads

[Xupi]

There must be more lessons to learn from the catastrophy in Italy. If you look at the number of cases in Germany and how few fatalities there have been, then comparing the two case-studies of Italy and Germany should be informative.

This has to be due to the fact that Germany, a little like SK, is testing massively more people than Italy or France or Spain. In fact the virus is probably much less widespread in Germany than South-Western Europe. We're looking at set of stats that are potentially very different.

I have been told of cases in Germany where people had symptoms and were told to be confined at home, only to be woken in the middle of the night by a team wearing masks and testing them.

In France the only people tested at this stage of the pandemic are those who go to hospital because the symptoms are becoming severe.

[Uncle Fester]

My cunning plan to make my own hand sanitiser has failed.
Turns out immiscible liquids are still immiscible, even under ultrasonic agitation. I need a sheer mixer next.

Shear

[bimboman]

Well I totally disagree with most of what you pray for the exactly the same reasons. Namely misunderstanding and consequent misinformation.

You give it a rest.

No mate, you've been dominating this thread yelling at everyone that the UK's approach was exactly the same as everyone else's, yelling at anyone who disagreed, and repeatedly got involved whenever any criticism was aimed at the govt for their approach and their messaging. Even today, long after everyone else understood what had happened and that the UK was having to dramatically alter course, you kept banging on the same old tired and debunked lines.

You have more posts than anyone else in this thread and you need to think more before posting. You post so much stuff that is just nowhere near true.

You do realise “dramatically alter course “ is just a lie of your own making. Not “everyone else” , you Rodney and the Irish trolls , that’s not everyone.

[EverReady]

My cunning plan to make my own hand sanitiser has failed.
Turns out immiscible liquids are still immiscible, even under ultrasonic agitation. I need a sheer mixer next.

Shear

NERDS

[RodneyRegis]

Yes Patrick, what changed?

Edit: Oh, he's going to dodge the question completely again.

This is something that exists in your mind. He answered the question perfectly.

Ha.

He was asked what changed in the modelling with specific regard to the ICL document. He said it wasn't so much that the modelling changed, but that we were further up the curve now.

It was a barefaced lie.

Another Piers Morgan.

Not at all. I've commended Rishi on his stuff today. I even quite like the "Operation Last Gasp" thing. I'm not a Boris basher, I just know a squirmer when I see one.

[JM2K6]

Well I totally disagree with most of what you pray for the exactly the same reasons. Namely misunderstanding and consequent misinformation.

You give it a rest.

No mate, you've been dominating this thread yelling at everyone that the UK's approach was exactly the same as everyone else's, yelling at anyone who disagreed, and repeatedly got involved whenever any criticism was aimed at the govt for their approach and their messaging. Even today, long after everyone else understood what had happened and that the UK was having to dramatically alter course, you kept banging on the same old tired and debunked lines.

You have more posts than anyone else in this thread and you need to think more before posting. You post so much stuff that is just nowhere near true.

You do realise “dramatically alter course “ is just a lie of your own making. Not “everyone else” , you Rodney and the Irish trolls , that’s not everyone.

The mitigation strategy "focuses on slowing but not necessarily stopping epidemic spread — reducing peak healthcare demand while protecting those most at risk of severe disease from infection", the report said, reflecting the UK strategy that was outlined last week by Boris Johnson and the chief scientific adviser Patrick Vallance.

But the approach was found to be unworkable. "Our most significant conclusion is that mitigation is unlikely to be feasible without emergency surge capacity limits of the UK and US healthcare systems being exceeded many times over," perhaps by as much as eight times, the report said.

In this scenario, the Imperial College team predicted as many as 250,000 deaths in Britain.

"In the UK, this conclusion has only been reached in the last few days," the report explained, due to new data on likely intensive care unit demand based on the experience of Italy and Britain so far.

"We were expecting herd immunity to build. We now realise it’s not possible to cope with that," professor Azra Ghani, chair of infectious diseases epidemiology at Imperial, told journalists at a briefing on Monday night.

Just me, Rodney, the Irish, the study, and the guy announcing the study, and everyone who read the study, and the Government who changed course based on the study, and the scientists and related people discussing the change in course

[Gavin Duffy]

Well I totally disagree with most of what you pray for the exactly the same reasons. Namely misunderstanding and consequent misinformation.

You give it a rest.

No mate, you've been dominating this thread yelling at everyone that the UK's approach was exactly the same as everyone else's, yelling at anyone who disagreed, and repeatedly got involved whenever any criticism was aimed at the govt for their approach and their messaging. Even today, long after everyone else understood what had happened and that the UK was having to dramatically alter course, you kept banging on the same old tired and debunked lines.

You have more posts than anyone else in this thread and you need to think more before posting. You post so much stuff that is just nowhere near true.

You do realise “dramatically alter course “ is just a lie of your own making. Not “everyone else” , you Rodney and the Irish trolls , that’s not everyone.

Have you been tested yet? For coronavirus, like?

[RodneyRegis]

Well I totally disagree with most of what you pray for the exactly the same reasons. Namely misunderstanding and consequent misinformation.

You give it a rest.

No mate, you've been dominating this thread yelling at everyone that the UK's approach was exactly the same as everyone else's, yelling at anyone who disagreed, and repeatedly got involved whenever any criticism was aimed at the govt for their approach and their messaging. Even today, long after everyone else understood what had happened and that the UK was having to dramatically alter course, you kept banging on the same old tired and debunked lines.

You have more posts than anyone else in this thread and you need to think more before posting. You post so much stuff that is just nowhere near true.

You do realise “dramatically alter course “ is just a lie of your own making. Not “everyone else” , you Rodney and the Irish trolls , that’s not everyone.

I prefer the Brexit/Greta threads where I agree with most of your stuff. Now I see what it's like on the other side of the fence!

[Uncle Fester]

Below the line it is pretty toxic, on the one hand you have commentators outright accusing the government of deliberately killing the old, weak and vulnerable while simultaneously they are making snide gleeful remarks about how elderly Brexiteers are going to get their comeuppance. Pretty nasty stuff.

Honestly as this gets worse I wouldn’t oppose shutting down access to twitter, it really isn’t helping. Certainly wpuld have to be step one of any major war. Just imagine it back in WW2, ‘why Monty’s plan is flawed and German expert Rommel has this right, 1/543...’

If it wasn't for Twatter and the incredulous uproar there, the government would probably have pressed ahead with operation herd immunity.

It wasn't only Twitter. The real world was in uproar. Twitter is just where a lot of them meet.

Agreed. A megaphone so.

[Diego]

Denmark just banned meetings of more than 10 and effectively closed everything apart from supermarkets.

[bimboman]

Just me, Rodney, the Irish, the study, and the guy announcing the study, and everyone who read the study, and the Government who changed course, and the scientists and related people discussing the change in course

Last Thursdays plan is still in place, extra steps to flatten the curve were introduced then as coming down the line. You’re misrepresenting what’s been said and done to back your earlier hysteria and current lies.