Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DAC_
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DAC_ »

All nations should be protecting their vulnerable with vaccines and then not using any more until the demand around the world has been met
It's Bob Geldorf.
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CM11
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:27 am
All nations should be protecting their vulnerable with vaccines and then not using any more until the demand around the world has been met
It's Bob Geldorf.
I'm actually just parotting the WHO.
DAC_
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DAC_ »

I don't agree with doing it now. I wish the EU had taken an EU first approach like the UK
You know we're not in the EU? Why would we put French citizens above our own?

Also, it would appear the EU didn't take any approach, at all.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DAC_ »

CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:27 am
DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:27 am
All nations should be protecting their vulnerable with vaccines and then not using any more until the demand around the world has been met
It's Bob Geldorf.
I'm actually just parotting the WHO.
You didn't do that when they said the AZ vaccine was totally fine to use.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:13 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:08 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:38 am Oh that reminds me.

eldan, your answer about whether you'd take the vaccine over a 70+ year old EU citizen if you were given the option?
fudge yes is the answer when it's you asking me about a false situation that will never come up, nor is representative of the current situation.
It is exactly representative of the current situation. Healthy UK citizens are being vaccinated over vulnerable EU citizens as we speak. Because the UK are not releasing AZ from their contract clause.
No it's not. Only you imagine and you hope it will be, as you consistently ignore much of the context. The situation doesn't not come down to what's happening.

Currently it's more like the fact the EU situation is not as well vaccinated on average due to their own governments, currently the EU citizens has few million Vaccines they are rejecting and also the current situation is more like I'm sitting there allowing vulnerable people to be vaccinated next to me and the EU situation, who may or may not be more vulnerable than some people with health disorder have has decided to block the vaccine table from all these vulnerable people which refusing to take heir own themselves.

That also ignore the fact you have no idea if I'd take the vaccine to ensure those vulnerable people around me are not infected by me, what health issues I have, which could make me more vulnerable individually than some 70 year olds. Likewise there is the bigger picture. Herd immunity. Is it better to immunize a population of a million or a million people across many populations. The former will save more lives via herd immunity than the other. Of course there can be the perception of fairness, but in this case nobody talks about fairness in limited resources actually causes more illness and death overall due to the lack of transmission in herd immunity. Individually if healthy I'd help anyone whose in trouble over myself to a degree. Take a moment to think and you realise are you actually saving a life or following a course of action that leads to more deaths? The emotional answer many not be the better ethical one.

It's not a question that is easy to answer or even has a right answer and your oversimplified and completely irrelevant analogy suggests. As I don't have the power of decisions I believe if government make fair actions to do a better job than others, then blocking the imperfectly legal advances of a government to do what is right because they did better job than you is certainly a political and unethical action and one I oppose.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Mick Mannock »

DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:30 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:27 am
DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:27 am
All nations should be protecting their vulnerable with vaccines and then not using any more until the demand around the world has been met
It's Bob Geldorf.
I'm actually just parotting the WHO.
You didn't do that when they said the AZ vaccine was totally fine to use.
That was Bad WHO. He is now writing about Good WHO
DAC_
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DAC_ »

I know this is a generalisation but this is the problem with the Irish. They hold the UK to much higher standards than they would anyone else, including themselves.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:13 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:08 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:38 am Oh that reminds me.

eldan, your answer about whether you'd take the vaccine over a 70+ year old EU citizen if you were given the option?
fudge yes is the answer when it's you asking me about a false situation that will never come up, nor is representative of the current situation.
It is exactly representative of the current situation. Healthy UK citizens are being vaccinated over vulnerable EU citizens as we speak. Because the UK are not releasing AZ from their contract clause.
The UK government's first priority is, and must be, its own citizens. We're no longer in the EU.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:24 am ....and the fact is, if you're honest, you know the UK will help everyone (I mean, given the amount of money we've donated to help the world we have already done so much more than almost every country on the planet) we can once we're sorted.
Unfortunately, money is irrelevant when you are talking about saving lives.

The stats on people who die and cause hospital overflows from COVID clearly show that it's a relatively narrow set of the population. That is the acute problem we have faced in the West. All of us holding onto vaccines until we get to 80% of our population getting vaccinated will cause a disproportionate number of deaths if the developing world from COVID-19. If we take the EU and UK as an example, with 20% at heightened risk of dying from COVID-19, we need c. 200m of two dose vaccines to avoid a significant amount of excess death. What we are all actually going for is 700/800m doses before we start properly helping the developing world. That's an excess of a few hundred million vaccines that could be used to try and help countries and regions that have few vaccines. Somewhere like Brazil, who are a stage above developing, are going to China to try and vaccinate their citizens and to stop excess deaths.

So 1 billion here or there really doesn't cut the mustard here in claiming to really be helping. The real action is doing something like AZ did with the SII. The SII are producing vaccines for between $3 to $13 a dose. It isn't credible to go and buy doses for 30 and 40 somethings at home at the higher price and take those away from older people in the developing world, and then claim that you are all about helping. The plan was for the SII to develop for India and the developing world, when the going got tough a western nation like the UK (and the EU, though they don't seem to have bought them) were invited in by their pharma supplier to buy more vaccines.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:36 am
DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:24 am ....and the fact is, if you're honest, you know the UK will help everyone (I mean, given the amount of money we've donated to help the world we have already done so much more than almost every country on the planet) we can once we're sorted.
Unfortunately, money is irrelevant when you are talking about saving lives.

The stats on people who die and cause hospital overflows from COVID clearly show that it's a relatively narrow set of the population. That is the acute problem we have faced in the West. All of us holding onto vaccines until we get to 80% of our population getting vaccinated will cause a disproportionate number of deaths if the developing world from COVID-19. If we take the EU and UK as an example, with 20% at heightened risk of dying from COVID-19, we need c. 200m of two dose vaccines to avoid a significant amount of excess death. What we are all actually going for is 700/800m doses before we start properly helping the developing world. That's an excess of a few hundred million vaccines that could be used to try and help countries and regions that have few vaccines. Somewhere like Brazil, who are a stage above developing, are going to China to try and vaccinate their citizens and to stop excess deaths.

So 1 billion here or there really doesn't cut the mustard here in claiming to really be helping. The real action is doing something like AZ did with the SII. The SII are producing vaccines for between $3 to $13 a dose. It isn't credible to go and buy doses for 30 and 40 somethings at home at the higher price and take those away from older people in the developing world, and then claim that you are all about helping. The plan was for the SII to develop for India and the developing world, when the going got tough a western nation like the UK (and the EU, though they don't seem to have bought them) were invited in by their pharma supplier to buy more vaccines.
The vaccine is bought from AZ. There is a contract and a delivery schedule. SII are producing vaccine for AZ.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by C69 »

eldanielfire wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:08 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:38 am Oh that reminds me.

eldan, your answer about whether you'd take the vaccine over a 70+ year old EU citizen if you were given the option?
fudge yes is the answer when it's you asking me about a false situation that will never come up, nor is representative of the current situation.
That's a pathetic and appalling question to ask CM.
We don't live in some Socialist Utopia ffs.
As Boris pointed out, it's effectively survival of the fittest take any advantage you can, dbe greedy be a good capitalist and let others less forunate get f**ked.

At least for once he was being honest. Saying what a lot of his party and posters on here think.
I may not agree qith his sentiments but at least for once, behind closed doors, he is showing some honesty.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DAC_ »

Look, if it makes you feel better, continue to hit us with all of the sticks you find, both real ones and false ones.
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CM11
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:30 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:27 am
DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:27 am
All nations should be protecting their vulnerable with vaccines and then not using any more until the demand around the world has been met
It's Bob Geldorf.
I'm actually just parotting the WHO.
You didn't do that when they said the AZ vaccine was totally fine to use.
Eh, I did. :?
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CM11
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:42 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:08 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:38 am Oh that reminds me.

eldan, your answer about whether you'd take the vaccine over a 70+ year old EU citizen if you were given the option?
fudge yes is the answer when it's you asking me about a false situation that will never come up, nor is representative of the current situation.
That's a pathetic and appalling question to ask CM.
We don't live in some Socialist Utopia ffs.
As Boris pointed out, it's effectively survival of the fittest take any advantage you can, dbe greedy be a good capitalist and let others less forunate get f**ked.

At least for once he was being honest. Saying what a lot of his party and posters on here think.
I may not agree qith his sentiments but at least for once, behind closed doors, he is showing some honesty.
An appalling question to ask of someone who is defending the UK and attacking the EU for asking that exact question?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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de_Selby wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:17 am
danny_fitz wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:07 am
Frodder wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:22 am Just when we thought the UK government was handling the vaccine issue diplomatically well along comes Boris

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56504546
Its like he has some kind of political Tourette's condition and he cant just can't help himself.

"Boris, the German ambassador is here, remember what we spoke about, keep to the script"

"Ah Andreas Michaelis, welcome to Number 10, how was the Heinkel flight over, parachute open okay"
One MP told me the prime minister's "greed" comments had been intended to poke fun at the chief whip, who was gobbling his cheese and pickle while sitting next to him during the meeting.

Believe it or not, the Conservative Party's boss of discipline, Mark Spencer, has been christened with the nickname "Big Farmer", like "Big Pharma" - the pharmaceutical companies.
Pretty good excuse. I definitely believe it.
Yes. And Great Boo's up, Edmund.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by C69 »

CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:45 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:42 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:08 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:38 am Oh that reminds me.

eldan, your answer about whether you'd take the vaccine over a 70+ year old EU citizen if you were given the option?
fudge yes is the answer when it's you asking me about a false situation that will never come up, nor is representative of the current situation.
That's a pathetic and appalling question to ask CM.
We don't live in some Socialist Utopia ffs.
As Boris pointed out, it's effectively survival of the fittest take any advantage you can, dbe greedy be a good capitalist and let others less forunate get f**ked.

At least for once he was being honest. Saying what a lot of his party and posters on here think.
I may not agree qith his sentiments but at least for once, behind closed doors, he is showing some honesty.
An appalling question to ask of someone who is defending the UK and attacking the EU for asking that exact question?
Yes it's personal not related at all to Governmental shenanigans.
If you can't see the difference then that's your issue. It was crass and peurile to ask such a thing.
However I will defend your right to be crass and peurile on an obscure spikey rugby forum.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

message #2527204 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:32 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:13 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:08 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:38 am Oh that reminds me.

eldan, your answer about whether you'd take the vaccine over a 70+ year old EU citizen if you were given the option?
fudge yes is the answer when it's you asking me about a false situation that will never come up, nor is representative of the current situation.
It is exactly representative of the current situation. Healthy UK citizens are being vaccinated over vulnerable EU citizens as we speak. Because the UK are not releasing AZ from their contract clause.
The UK government's first priority is, and must be, its own citizens. We're no longer in the EU.
Absolutely. Especially when we've had, just about, the highest death rate from Covid out of all the major nations. I see no ethical dilemma there.

Doesn't mean that we can't, and haven't, done our bit globally though. Such as funding the development of a vaccine and providing the IPR on a royalty free basis to countries all over the world - and donating significant finds to Covax, and sending a team over to the Netherlands to help them sort out their AZ manufacturing yields.
Last edited by ovalball on Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

Having looked into this contribution to vaccine development and distribution I can see where the problem lies. DAC is confusing the EU with individual states. So the EU is giving money but different countries are also contributing extra. For example Germany is giving €2.1bn.

Anyway, the ironic part of this whole argument is that the UK could have done exactly what they have already done while still part of the EU but wouldn't be open to any export ban.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:50 am Having looked into this contribution to vaccine development and distribution I can see where the problem lies. DAC is confusing the EU with individual states. So the EU is giving money but different countries are also contributing extra. For example Germany is giving €2.1bn.

Anyway, the ironic part of this whole argument is that the UK could have done exactly what they have already done while still part of the EU but wouldn't be open to any export ban.
Of course they could. Wouldn't have caused a whisper.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by C69 »

I have my 2nd vacconation in 4 hours.
fudge the lot of you/Boris mode
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:49 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:45 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:42 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:08 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:38 am Oh that reminds me.

eldan, your answer about whether you'd take the vaccine over a 70+ year old EU citizen if you were given the option?
fudge yes is the answer when it's you asking me about a false situation that will never come up, nor is representative of the current situation.
That's a pathetic and appalling question to ask CM.
We don't live in some Socialist Utopia ffs.
As Boris pointed out, it's effectively survival of the fittest take any advantage you can, dbe greedy be a good capitalist and let others less forunate get f**ked.

At least for once he was being honest. Saying what a lot of his party and posters on here think.
I may not agree qith his sentiments but at least for once, behind closed doors, he is showing some honesty.
An appalling question to ask of someone who is defending the UK and attacking the EU for asking that exact question?
Yes it's personal not related at all to Governmental shenanigans.
If you can't see the difference then that's your issue. It was crass and peurile to ask such a thing.
However I will defend your right to be crass and peurile on an obscure spikey rugby forum.
Sigh.

He's defending the concept that compromised EU citizens shouldn't get vaccines before healthy UK individuals because the UK have a contract for vaccines and shouldn't consider releasing AZ from their contract to supply more to help vulnerable EU citizens quicker. The only way for him not to be a hypocrite with that defence is if he doesn't actually care about the vulnerable EU citizens.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by C69 »

I have my 2nd vaccination in 4 hours.
fudge the lot of you/Boris mode
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

message #2527204 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:52 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:50 am Having looked into this contribution to vaccine development and distribution I can see where the problem lies. DAC is confusing the EU with individual states. So the EU is giving money but different countries are also contributing extra. For example Germany is giving €2.1bn.

Anyway, the ironic part of this whole argument is that the UK could have done exactly what they have already done while still part of the EU but wouldn't be open to any export ban.
Of course they could. Wouldn't have caused a whisper.
There would be the same outrage but nothing could be done.

Stop trying to bring everything back to Brexit.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:52 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:49 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:45 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:42 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:08 am

fudge yes is the answer when it's you asking me about a false situation that will never come up, nor is representative of the current situation.
That's a pathetic and appalling question to ask CM.
We don't live in some Socialist Utopia ffs.
As Boris pointed out, it's effectively survival of the fittest take any advantage you can, dbe greedy be a good capitalist and let others less forunate get f**ked.

At least for once he was being honest. Saying what a lot of his party and posters on here think.
I may not agree qith his sentiments but at least for once, behind closed doors, he is showing some honesty.
An appalling question to ask of someone who is defending the UK and attacking the EU for asking that exact question?
Yes it's personal not related at all to Governmental shenanigans.
If you can't see the difference then that's your issue. It was crass and peurile to ask such a thing.
However I will defend your right to be crass and peurile on an obscure spikey rugby forum.
Sigh.

He's defending the concept that compromised EU citizens shouldn't get vaccines before healthy UK individuals because the UK have a contract for vaccines and shouldn't consider releasing AZ from their contract to supply more to help vulnerable EU citizens quicker. The only way for him not to be a hypocrite with that defence is if he doesn't actually care about the vulnerable EU citizens.
If you followed that logic - all the doses would be sent to China, India and Africa, with almost none to the EU or the UK.
Last edited by ovalball on Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by C69 »

Down to single fingures today for Covid inpatients in my locality
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Mick Mannock »

C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:56 am Down to single fingures today for Covid inpatients in my locality
:thumbup:

Open the pubs!
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

ovalball wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:55 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:52 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:49 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:45 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:42 am
That's a pathetic and appalling question to ask CM.
We don't live in some Socialist Utopia ffs.
As Boris pointed out, it's effectively survival of the fittest take any advantage you can, dbe greedy be a good capitalist and let others less forunate get f**ked.

At least for once he was being honest. Saying what a lot of his party and posters on here think.
I may not agree qith his sentiments but at least for once, behind closed doors, he is showing some honesty.
An appalling question to ask of someone who is defending the UK and attacking the EU for asking that exact question?
Yes it's personal not related at all to Governmental shenanigans.
If you can't see the difference then that's your issue. It was crass and peurile to ask such a thing.
However I will defend your right to be crass and peurile on an obscure spikey rugby forum.
Sigh.

He's defending the concept that compromised EU citizens shouldn't get vaccines before healthy UK individuals because the UK have a contract for vaccines and shouldn't consider releasing AZ from their contract to supply more to help vulnerable EU citizens quicker. The only way for him not to be a hypocrite with that defence is if he doesn't actually care about the vulnerable EU citizens.
If you followed that logic - all the doses would be sent to China, India and Africa, with almost none to the EU or the UK.
Most doses by percentage, yes.

That said, China has little covid that they're admitting to so wouldn't be a high priority right now.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

Anyway, I'm out for today, at the very least. Getting dizzy with the circles we're going in.

Enjoy.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Petej »

DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:31 am I know this is a generalisation but this is the problem with the Irish. They hold the UK to much higher standards than they would anyone else, including themselves.
You and others do exactly the same to the EU. The contrast is how you and them both comment on the USA.

At any rate came on to comment on vaccine hesitancy in the UK. Was about 10% which was excellent now about 1.35% if my maths is correct. Approx15000 people surveyed.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... tudy-finds
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DAC_ »

CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:02 pm Anyway, I'm out for today, at the very least. Getting dizzy with the circles we're going in.

Enjoy.
We look forward to the next kicking you want to give us.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:01 pm
ovalball wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:55 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:52 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:49 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:45 am

An appalling question to ask of someone who is defending the UK and attacking the EU for asking that exact question?
Yes it's personal not related at all to Governmental shenanigans.
If you can't see the difference then that's your issue. It was crass and peurile to ask such a thing.
However I will defend your right to be crass and peurile on an obscure spikey rugby forum.
Sigh.

He's defending the concept that compromised EU citizens shouldn't get vaccines before healthy UK individuals because the UK have a contract for vaccines and shouldn't consider releasing AZ from their contract to supply more to help vulnerable EU citizens quicker. The only way for him not to be a hypocrite with that defence is if he doesn't actually care about the vulnerable EU citizens.
If you followed that logic - all the doses would be sent to China, India and Africa, with almost none to the EU or the UK.
Most doses by percentage, yes.

That said, China has little covid that they're admitting to so wouldn't be a high priority right now.
Which makes the UK a high priority.

Let's face it - every country is going to prioritise its own citizens. And it isn't just about deaths, there's severe economic effects to being in constant lockdown - and the UK has suffered, more than most, on both fronts.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by TheFrog »

DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:29 am
I don't agree with doing it now. I wish the EU had taken an EU first approach like the UK
You know we're not in the EU? Why would we put French citizens above our own?

Also, it would appear the EU didn't take any approach, at all.
Well, they are now, in threatening to block exports of the vaccine. So we should be proud of the EU now. They're putting their own before the rest of the world. :proud:

And it's legal. It's Sovereign Power versus commercial contracts.
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Post by TheFrog »

ovalball wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:09 pm
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:01 pm
ovalball wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:55 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:52 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:49 am

Yes it's personal not related at all to Governmental shenanigans.
If you can't see the difference then that's your issue. It was crass and peurile to ask such a thing.
However I will defend your right to be crass and peurile on an obscure spikey rugby forum.
Sigh.

He's defending the concept that compromised EU citizens shouldn't get vaccines before healthy UK individuals because the UK have a contract for vaccines and shouldn't consider releasing AZ from their contract to supply more to help vulnerable EU citizens quicker. The only way for him not to be a hypocrite with that defence is if he doesn't actually care about the vulnerable EU citizens.
If you followed that logic - all the doses would be sent to China, India and Africa, with almost none to the EU or the UK.
Most doses by percentage, yes.

That said, China has little covid that they're admitting to so wouldn't be a high priority right now.
Which makes the UK a high priority.

Let's face it - every country is going to prioritise its own citizens. And it isn't just about deaths, there's severe economic effects to being in constant lockdown - and the UK has suffered, more than most, on both fronts.
China is exporting all over the world. Soft power.
DAC_
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DAC_ »

TheFrog wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:10 pm
DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:29 am
I don't agree with doing it now. I wish the EU had taken an EU first approach like the UK
You know we're not in the EU? Why would we put French citizens above our own?

Also, it would appear the EU didn't take any approach, at all.
Well, they are now, in threatening to block exports of the vaccine. So we should be proud of the EU now. They're putting their own before the rest of the world. :proud:

And it's legal. It's Sovereign Power versus commercial contracts.
Good luck with it all.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

message #2527204 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:36 am
DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:24 am ....and the fact is, if you're honest, you know the UK will help everyone (I mean, given the amount of money we've donated to help the world we have already done so much more than almost every country on the planet) we can once we're sorted.
Unfortunately, money is irrelevant when you are talking about saving lives.

The stats on people who die and cause hospital overflows from COVID clearly show that it's a relatively narrow set of the population. That is the acute problem we have faced in the West. All of us holding onto vaccines until we get to 80% of our population getting vaccinated will cause a disproportionate number of deaths if the developing world from COVID-19. If we take the EU and UK as an example, with 20% at heightened risk of dying from COVID-19, we need c. 200m of two dose vaccines to avoid a significant amount of excess death. What we are all actually going for is 700/800m doses before we start properly helping the developing world. That's an excess of a few hundred million vaccines that could be used to try and help countries and regions that have few vaccines. Somewhere like Brazil, who are a stage above developing, are going to China to try and vaccinate their citizens and to stop excess deaths.

So 1 billion here or there really doesn't cut the mustard here in claiming to really be helping. The real action is doing something like AZ did with the SII. The SII are producing vaccines for between $3 to $13 a dose. It isn't credible to go and buy doses for 30 and 40 somethings at home at the higher price and take those away from older people in the developing world, and then claim that you are all about helping. The plan was for the SII to develop for India and the developing world, when the going got tough a western nation like the UK (and the EU, though they don't seem to have bought them) were invited in by their pharma supplier to buy more vaccines.
The vaccine is bought from AZ. There is a contract and a delivery schedule. SII are producing vaccine for AZ.
The original contract stated that SII would not produce for the EU or UK.

That changed in February 2021.

You talk about not for profit and the influence of Big Pharma but are very quiet on why doses previously earmarked for the developing world would end up in the UK because the UK supply chain failed.

It's capitalism and greed, as your PM correctly stated.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

ovalball wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:09 pm
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:01 pm
ovalball wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:55 am
CM11 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:52 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:49 am

Yes it's personal not related at all to Governmental shenanigans.
If you can't see the difference then that's your issue. It was crass and peurile to ask such a thing.
However I will defend your right to be crass and peurile on an obscure spikey rugby forum.
Sigh.

He's defending the concept that compromised EU citizens shouldn't get vaccines before healthy UK individuals because the UK have a contract for vaccines and shouldn't consider releasing AZ from their contract to supply more to help vulnerable EU citizens quicker. The only way for him not to be a hypocrite with that defence is if he doesn't actually care about the vulnerable EU citizens.
If you followed that logic - all the doses would be sent to China, India and Africa, with almost none to the EU or the UK.
Most doses by percentage, yes.

That said, China has little covid that they're admitting to so wouldn't be a high priority right now.
Which makes the UK a high priority.

Let's face it - every country is going to prioritise its own citizens. And it isn't just about deaths, there's severe economic effects to being in constant lockdown - and the UK has suffered, more than most, on both fronts.
Last one oval, as you play it straight. The UK is no longer high priority.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:53 am I have my 2nd vaccination in 4 hours.
fudge the lot of you/Boris mode
I'm still waiting for my first. I'm too young.
DAC_
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DAC_ »

Me too, although I'm good for antibodies for another couple of months due to testing positive in December
mdaclarke
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by mdaclarke »

eldanielfire wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:29 pm
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:53 am I have my 2nd vaccination in 4 hours.
fudge the lot of you/Boris mode
I'm still waiting for my first. I'm too young.
Same here. Can't wait, don't care which ones I get. Mum had Pfzier, Dad had AZ and both were fine.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

TheFrog wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:10 pm
DAC_ wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:29 am
I don't agree with doing it now. I wish the EU had taken an EU first approach like the UK
You know we're not in the EU? Why would we put French citizens above our own?

Also, it would appear the EU didn't take any approach, at all.
Well, they are now, in threatening to block exports of the vaccine. So we should be proud of the EU now. They're putting their own before the rest of the world. :proud:

And it's legal. It's Sovereign Power versus commercial contracts.


I certainly want to live somewhere with a central power that can override private interests and ownership,


It’s also not sovereign power, the supra national body is not sovereign.
Last edited by bimboman on Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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