Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Edinburgh01
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Edinburgh01 »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:06 pm For a facility which was intended to provided doses to India and the developing world. The CEO explicitly stated that he did not believe Covax would reach targets. The reality is that these were redirected to western countries, with the UK seemingly the ones to take that up, ahead of developing countries. You either wear that or you don't, but that's reality.
The reality is that doses were not diverted to the UK from developing countries, unless the assurances given by SII were false.
The UK government said the agreement follows assurances from the SII that providing doses to the UK would not impact its commitment to provide vaccines to poorer countries.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SKCN2AV0A2

SII are also seeking clearance to supply to the EU which is touched on at the end of that article.

Your quote re 4m doses coming from the EU from an apparently reliable source explains why you are convinced it is true. I have found one other article of similar vintage that says the same.

I have done you the courtesy of researching your position, and despite spending more time on it than is healthy, more current articles make no mention of this 4m. The only related references I can find are to the EU failing to prove that AZ has exported EU developed vaccines to the UK.

Given that one of the key complaints against AZ from the EU is that they have exported to the UK, had AZ vaccines been imported to the UK as well as Pfizer, you'd think both would still be being reported rather than just Pfizer.

Given that the situation has been dynamic for some time, I'd appreciate it if you'd return the courtesy and point to something more current that refutes the articles I quoted.
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MrDominator
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by MrDominator »

The EU not exactly covering themselves in glory :lol:
It was an extraordinary story – the European Commission had turned detective to find AstraZeneca's secret stockpile of vaccines reserved for Britain.

During a surprise raid over the weekend, an elite unit of Italian military police acting on EU orders discovered 29 million jab doses hoarded at a factory near Rome.

The discovery appeared to confirm the EU's long-held suspicion that AstraZeneca was giving the UK special treatment, secretly exporting doses to its home country while failing to deliver on contracts agreed with Brussels.

Yet, as EU officials admitted on Wednesday, the allegation, briefed to the Continental press, simply wasn't true.

In fact, most of the doses discovered in the Italian factory were destined for the EU itself, with the remainder headed for poorer countries across the world.

One former Europe minister called it possibly the "most embarrassing day in the EU's history".
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by mdaclarke »

MrDominator wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:46 am The EU not exactly covering themselves in glory :lol:
It was an extraordinary story – the European Commission had turned detective to find AstraZeneca's secret stockpile of vaccines reserved for Britain.

During a surprise raid over the weekend, an elite unit of Italian military police acting on EU orders discovered 29 million jab doses hoarded at a factory near Rome.

The discovery appeared to confirm the EU's long-held suspicion that AstraZeneca was giving the UK special treatment, secretly exporting doses to its home country while failing to deliver on contracts agreed with Brussels.

Yet, as EU officials admitted on Wednesday, the allegation, briefed to the Continental press, simply wasn't true.

In fact, most of the doses discovered in the Italian factory were destined for the EU itself, with the remainder headed for poorer countries across the world.

One former Europe minister called it possibly the "most embarrassing day in the EU's history".
It is almost comical.

And now Pfizer has given the EU an stern warning too about any threat to block exports.

A deal will be done, the EU will be given enough to climb down whilst saving face.
ovalball
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

mdaclarke wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:50 am
MrDominator wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:46 am The EU not exactly covering themselves in glory :lol:
It was an extraordinary story – the European Commission had turned detective to find AstraZeneca's secret stockpile of vaccines reserved for Britain.

During a surprise raid over the weekend, an elite unit of Italian military police acting on EU orders discovered 29 million jab doses hoarded at a factory near Rome.

The discovery appeared to confirm the EU's long-held suspicion that AstraZeneca was giving the UK special treatment, secretly exporting doses to its home country while failing to deliver on contracts agreed with Brussels.

Yet, as EU officials admitted on Wednesday, the allegation, briefed to the Continental press, simply wasn't true.

In fact, most of the doses discovered in the Italian factory were destined for the EU itself, with the remainder headed for poorer countries across the world.

One former Europe minister called it possibly the "most embarrassing day in the EU's history".
It is almost comical.

And now Pfizer has given the EU an stern warning too about any threat to block exports.

A deal will be done, the EU will be given enough to climb down whilst saving face.
Their behaviour, collectively and, in many cases, individually, has been nothing short of appalling. Ranging from incompetent and scurrilous, to downright dangerous. And I say that as someone who still thinks leaving the EU (despite all its' flaws) was a bad mistake.

Hopefully, common sense will now prevail and things can be sorted out behind closed doors, where it should always have been, and with no further bad mouthing of AZ. They've got lots of work to do to rebuild confidence in their vaccine.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DragsterDriver »

I’d like cm11’s official take on this.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:39 pm So the Scottish Government have not only paid NHS staff a £500 bonus for their work during Covid, now they are giving staff a 4% pay rise.
It's framed as rewarding our Covid heroes.
Let's see what happens about the English governments 1%.

They have made cuts to social services to “pay” this.

It was also paid by the English tax payer.

Why weren’t the staff who did f uck all last year excluded from the £500?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Mick Mannock »

C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:39 pm So the Scottish Government have not only paid NHS staff a £500 bonus for their work during Covid, now they are giving staff a 4% pay rise.
It's framed as rewarding our Covid heroes.
Let's see what happens about the English governments 1%.
What is this English government you write about?
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

mdaclarke wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:34 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:39 pm So the Scottish Government have not only paid NHS staff a £500 bonus for their work during Covid, now they are giving staff a 4% pay rise.
It's framed as rewarding our Covid heroes.
Let's see what happens about the English governments 1%.
It's always easy to spend another Country's money.
In the context of UK finances, that is a pittance.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:25 am
mdaclarke wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:34 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:39 pm So the Scottish Government have not only paid NHS staff a £500 bonus for their work during Covid, now they are giving staff a 4% pay rise.
It's framed as rewarding our Covid heroes.
Let's see what happens about the English governments 1%.
It's always easy to spend another Country's money.
In the context of UK finances, that is a pittance.


Because it’s a small part of the country. For 1.5 million employees it’s a lot.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

MrDominator wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:46 am The EU not exactly covering themselves in glory :lol:
It was an extraordinary story – the European Commission had turned detective to find AstraZeneca's secret stockpile of vaccines reserved for Britain.

During a surprise raid over the weekend, an elite unit of Italian military police acting on EU orders discovered 29 million jab doses hoarded at a factory near Rome.

The discovery appeared to confirm the EU's long-held suspicion that AstraZeneca was giving the UK special treatment, secretly exporting doses to its home country while failing to deliver on contracts agreed with Brussels.

Yet, as EU officials admitted on Wednesday, the allegation, briefed to the Continental press, simply wasn't true.

In fact, most of the doses discovered in the Italian factory were destined for the EU itself, with the remainder headed for poorer countries across the world.

One former Europe minister called it possibly the "most embarrassing day in the EU's history".
And people are arguing against the EU being motivated by UK/Brexit paranoia when it's pretty obvious in their actions :lol:
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:27 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:25 am
mdaclarke wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:34 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:39 pm So the Scottish Government have not only paid NHS staff a £500 bonus for their work during Covid, now they are giving staff a 4% pay rise.
It's framed as rewarding our Covid heroes.
Let's see what happens about the English governments 1%.
It's always easy to spend another Country's money.
In the context of UK finances, that is a pittance.


Because it’s a small part of the country. For 1.5 million employees it’s a lot.
The 1.5 million employees is not all nurses though adn the Scottish budget is much smaller than the whole UK. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Given we can spaff literally 10s of billions on a useless Test and Trace, a nurses pay rise, that would improve the moral of the profession after a terrible, terrible year for them would have both benefits to the quality of service, retention and for f#cks sake they f**king deserve it. The Tories instincts or perspective on this is massively out of whack.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DragsterDriver »

I don’t think it would improve the quality of service, and I don’t think another nhs pay rise is as popular with the public as some think. The nhs hasn’t had a great pandemic.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Mick Mannock »

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:32 am
bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:27 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:25 am
mdaclarke wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:34 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:39 pm So the Scottish Government have not only paid NHS staff a £500 bonus for their work during Covid, now they are giving staff a 4% pay rise.
It's framed as rewarding our Covid heroes.
Let's see what happens about the English governments 1%.
It's always easy to spend another Country's money.
In the context of UK finances, that is a pittance.


Because it’s a small part of the country. For 1.5 million employees it’s a lot.
The 1.5 million employees is not all nurses though adn the Scottish budget is much smaller than the whole UK. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Given we can spaff literally 10s of billions on a useless Test and Trace, a nurses pay rise, that would improve the moral of the profession after a terrible, terrible year for them would have both benefits to the quality of service, retention and for f#cks sake they f**king deserve it. The Tories instincts or perspective on this is massively out of whack.
For me, the terrible year has been watching this country collapse. It has been the inability to live a normal life - go to the pub, see family, and for those who consider it important (I don't) go abroad on holiday. It has been watching businesses close down. It has been the level of anxiety expressed by people I know about their futures, and their children's futures.

Do not misunderstand me, I will take any pay rise on offer.

However, there are people who need help far more than those in relatively secure public sector employment.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:32 am
bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:27 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:25 am
mdaclarke wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:34 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:39 pm So the Scottish Government have not only paid NHS staff a £500 bonus for their work during Covid, now they are giving staff a 4% pay rise.
It's framed as rewarding our Covid heroes.
Let's see what happens about the English governments 1%.
It's always easy to spend another Country's money.
In the context of UK finances, that is a pittance.


Because it’s a small part of the country. For 1.5 million employees it’s a lot.
The 1.5 million employees is not all nurses though adn the Scottish budget is much smaller than the whole UK. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Given we can spaff literally 10s of billions on a useless Test and Trace, a nurses pay rise, that would improve the moral of the profession after a terrible, terrible year for them would have both benefits to the quality of service, retention and for f#cks sake they f**king deserve it. The Tories instincts or perspective on this is massively out of whack.


The 1% pay rise isn’t just for “nurses” .....

I agree that test and trace was a waste of money, but using a waste of money as an excuse to spend more of taxpayer money is a more than silly argument.

“Terrible year for them” ? , yeah it’s been great for those on 80% of income or those that have lost their jobs. You arrogantly want more tax paid by those people to support people on totally secure jobs and wages. It’s disgusting.

As for perspective, those people saying their wages aren’t enough will all be given the perspective of seeing 3 -4 million unemployed soon. Let’s see how job retention works then.

Nurses aren’t under paid. Doctors aren’t underpaid , the managers and office wonks are massively over paid and over staffed.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Mick Mannock »

Some of you loot think Bimbo and I agree on everything.

We do not.

However, I consider his last post 100% correct.

Economically.

Morally
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clementinfrance
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by clementinfrance »

Fair summary of the current situation here...

https://twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status ... 7480184841
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AnkleTap
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by AnkleTap »

Same. I work for the NHS. I have dam near cleared my mortgage on all the extra shifts over the pandemic. They paid us a 30% on top bonus for every extra shift taken in Jan and Feb. Then there is all the free shit we constantly get given. All while having a year with nothing to spend it on.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by C69 »

Mick Mannock wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:24 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:39 pm So the Scottish Government have not only paid NHS staff a £500 bonus for their work during Covid, now they are giving staff a 4% pay rise.
It's framed as rewarding our Covid heroes.
Let's see what happens about the English governments 1%.
What is this English government you write about?
I believe that Scotland, Wales and NI do their own pay deals. So in England the pay deal is for NHS England only. Semantics really.

I've not been paid a penny more for any extra hours I have done. I have seen friends and colleagues at breaking point and would if I could never set foot in work again.

That said a tax on the furloughed over a long time period as has been suggested by many would be a great idea.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

C69 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:33 am
Mick Mannock wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:24 am
C69 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:39 pm So the Scottish Government have not only paid NHS staff a £500 bonus for their work during Covid, now they are giving staff a 4% pay rise.
It's framed as rewarding our Covid heroes.
Let's see what happens about the English governments 1%.
What is this English government you write about?
I believe that Scotland, Wales and NI do their own pay deals. So in England the pay deal is for NHS England only. Semantics really.

I've not been paid a penny more for any extra hours I have done. I have seen friends and colleagues at breaking point and would if I could never set foot in work again.

That said a tax on the furloughed over a long time period as has been suggested by many would be a great idea.

Warped ....

But at least we know job retention argument is moot.

Although he may have a point regarding an extra “tax” on people paid directly by the state (like him).
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Mick Mannock wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:17 am Some of you loot think Bimbo and I agree on everything.

We do not.

However, I consider his last post 100% correct.

Economically.

Morally
you and bimbo are cunts of a feather
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

DragsterDriver wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:42 am I don’t think it would improve the quality of service, and I don’t think another nhs pay rise is as popular with the public as some think. The nhs hasn’t had a great pandemic.
You think stressed out, depressed Nurses who want to quit because the rewards are not compensating the workload of the past year and feel underappreciated by society will work as well or as enthusiastically if they are genuinely rewarded for their efforts?

Also regardless of how the NHS has done, no one thinks that's down to what the actual Doctors and Nurses do in the front line. It's the upper brass they blame.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:12 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:32 am
bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:27 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:25 am
mdaclarke wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:34 am

It's always easy to spend another Country's money.
In the context of UK finances, that is a pittance.


Because it’s a small part of the country. For 1.5 million employees it’s a lot.
The 1.5 million employees is not all nurses though adn the Scottish budget is much smaller than the whole UK. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Given we can spaff literally 10s of billions on a useless Test and Trace, a nurses pay rise, that would improve the moral of the profession after a terrible, terrible year for them would have both benefits to the quality of service, retention and for f#cks sake they f**king deserve it. The Tories instincts or perspective on this is massively out of whack.


The 1% pay rise isn’t just for “nurses” .....
I'm not discussing the 1% payrise. I see you moving goalposts again when confronted with the facts.


Nurses aren’t under paid. Doctors aren’t underpaid , the managers and office wonks are massively over paid and over staffed.
I'm not arguing for saying Doctors are underpaid or anything about office wonks. I said Nurses. That's you once again creating I've points I've never made.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

https://www.thejournal.ie/astrazeneca-v ... 1-Mar2021/

Apologies if this was discussed yesterday, I've just scanned the thread quickly. I thought AZ was showing much higher efficacy in real life? Not that 76% is bad (especially with the 100% avoidance of serious covid).
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:47 am
Mick Mannock wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:17 am Some of you loot think Bimbo and I agree on everything.

We do not.

However, I consider his last post 100% correct.

Economically.

Morally
you and bimbo are cunts of a feather


Yeah it’s a moral thing to demand poorly paid private sector workers support an ever burgeoning private sector. You’re so “moral”
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:51 am
bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:12 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:32 am
bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:27 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:25 am

In the context of UK finances, that is a pittance.


Because it’s a small part of the country. For 1.5 million employees it’s a lot.
The 1.5 million employees is not all nurses though adn the Scottish budget is much smaller than the whole UK. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Given we can spaff literally 10s of billions on a useless Test and Trace, a nurses pay rise, that would improve the moral of the profession after a terrible, terrible year for them would have both benefits to the quality of service, retention and for f#cks sake they f**king deserve it. The Tories instincts or perspective on this is massively out of whack.


The 1% pay rise isn’t just for “nurses” .....
I'm not discussing the 1% payrise. I see you moving goalposts again when confronted with the facts.


Nurses aren’t under paid. Doctors aren’t underpaid , the managers and office wonks are massively over paid and over staffed.
I'm not arguing for saying Doctors are underpaid or anything about office wonks. I said Nurses. That's you once again creating I've points I've never made.


He Scottish 4% isn’t just for nurses. It’s for all of them.

The point of my post was to make that clear rather than your emotive rubbish about nurses and “pitrances”

Once again the only goal post moving is you.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

CM11 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:01 am https://www.thejournal.ie/astrazeneca-v ... 1-Mar2021/

Apologies if this was discussed yesterday, I've just scanned the thread quickly. I thought AZ was showing much higher efficacy in real life? Not that 76% is bad (especially with the 100% avoidance of serious covid).

But only safe for the 55 to 65 year olds.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Anonymous 1 »

bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:02 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:47 am
Mick Mannock wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:17 am Some of you loot think Bimbo and I agree on everything.

We do not.

However, I consider his last post 100% correct.

Economically.

Morally
you and bimbo are cunts of a feather


Yeah it’s a moral thing to demand poorly paid private sector workers support an ever burgeoning private sector. You’re so “moral”
i was making a general point
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:04 am
bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:02 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:47 am
Mick Mannock wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:17 am Some of you loot think Bimbo and I agree on everything.

We do not.

However, I consider his last post 100% correct.

Economically.

Morally
you and bimbo are cunts of a feather


Yeah it’s a moral thing to demand poorly paid private sector workers support an ever burgeoning private sector. You’re so “moral”
i was making a general point


:thumbup:
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:03 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:51 am
bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:12 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:32 am
bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:27 am



Because it’s a small part of the country. For 1.5 million employees it’s a lot.
The 1.5 million employees is not all nurses though adn the Scottish budget is much smaller than the whole UK. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Given we can spaff literally 10s of billions on a useless Test and Trace, a nurses pay rise, that would improve the moral of the profession after a terrible, terrible year for them would have both benefits to the quality of service, retention and for f#cks sake they f**king deserve it. The Tories instincts or perspective on this is massively out of whack.


The 1% pay rise isn’t just for “nurses” .....
I'm not discussing the 1% payrise. I see you moving goalposts again when confronted with the facts.


Nurses aren’t under paid. Doctors aren’t underpaid , the managers and office wonks are massively over paid and over staffed.
I'm not arguing for saying Doctors are underpaid or anything about office wonks. I said Nurses. That's you once again creating I've points I've never made.


He Scottish 4% isn’t just for nurses. It’s for all of them.

The point of my post was to make that clear rather than your emotive rubbish about nurses and “pitrances”

Once again the only goal post moving is you.
No. I made the point that Nurses should get a payrise. There is no goalpost moving.
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Post by C69 »

For the record my wife who is self employed has not been eligible for a single penny of support during the Lockdown period like svores of others in her situation.
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Post by bimboman »

C69 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:23 am For the record my wife who is self employed has not been eligible for a single penny of support during the Lockdown period like svores of others in her situation.


Because she earns more than 50,000 a year then. Surely you support means testing this stuff.
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I'd have thought that employing more nurses would have a bigger effect on morale if its so low?
This 4% is only for those who survived the pandemic? Or everyone?
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Post by eldanielfire »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:47 am I'd have thought that employing more nurses would have a bigger effect on morale if its so low?
This 4% is only for those who survived the pandemic? Or everyone?
I agree. Better pay and more nurses to serve the public is a win-win. More nurses was Johnson's most popular non-Brexit pledge last election.
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Post by bimboman »

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:49 am
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:47 am I'd have thought that employing more nurses would have a bigger effect on morale if its so low?
This 4% is only for those who survived the pandemic? Or everyone?
I agree. Better pay and more nurses to serve the public is a win-win. More nurses was Johnson's most popular non-Brexit pledge last election.

The record recruitment is happening along with record applications to courses. They’re applying despite the poor salaries,
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Post by eldanielfire »

bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:52 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:49 am
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:47 am I'd have thought that employing more nurses would have a bigger effect on morale if its so low?
This 4% is only for those who survived the pandemic? Or everyone?
I agree. Better pay and more nurses to serve the public is a win-win. More nurses was Johnson's most popular non-Brexit pledge last election.

The record recruitment is happening along with record applications to courses. They’re applying despite the poor salaries,
Largely due to post-pandemic job instability. Likewise record applications doesn't mean record numbers in training. It depends if there are spaces available. It's as much desperation and fear of the future.

Makes you wonder why you're always arguing against Nurses pay rises in such heartless ways.
bimboman
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:55 am
bimboman wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:52 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:49 am
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:47 am I'd have thought that employing more nurses would have a bigger effect on morale if its so low?
This 4% is only for those who survived the pandemic? Or everyone?
I agree. Better pay and more nurses to serve the public is a win-win. More nurses was Johnson's most popular non-Brexit pledge last election.

The record recruitment is happening along with record applications to courses. They’re applying despite the poor salaries,
Largely due to post-pandemic job instability. Likewise record applications doesn't mean record numbers in training. It depends if there are spaces available. It's as much desperation and fear of the future.

Makes you wonder why you're always arguing against Nurses pay rises in such heartless ways.


It’s basic good economics with tax payer funds. Emoting about this is the thing that should make people wonder rather than the opposite.

And yes of course “competition “ for Labour should be part of a wages equation.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

Edinburgh01 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:39 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:06 pm For a facility which was intended to provided doses to India and the developing world. The CEO explicitly stated that he did not believe Covax would reach targets. The reality is that these were redirected to western countries, with the UK seemingly the ones to take that up, ahead of developing countries. You either wear that or you don't, but that's reality.
The reality is that doses were not diverted to the UK from developing countries, unless the assurances given by SII were false.
The UK government said the agreement follows assurances from the SII that providing doses to the UK would not impact its commitment to provide vaccines to poorer countries.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SKCN2AV0A2

SII are also seeking clearance to supply to the EU which is touched on at the end of that article.

Your quote re 4m doses coming from the EU from an apparently reliable source explains why you are convinced it is true. I have found one other article of similar vintage that says the same.

I have done you the courtesy of researching your position, and despite spending more time on it than is healthy, more current articles make no mention of this 4m. The only related references I can find are to the EU failing to prove that AZ has exported EU developed vaccines to the UK.

Given that one of the key complaints against AZ from the EU is that they have exported to the UK, had AZ vaccines been imported to the UK as well as Pfizer, you'd think both would still be being reported rather than just Pfizer.

Given that the situation has been dynamic for some time, I'd appreciate it if you'd return the courtesy and point to something more current that refutes the articles I quoted.
They are there in black and white per your own interview.

He does not believe Covax will reach it's targets.

A plant earmarked for developing countries, are diverting supplies to wealthier western nations. This was agreed specifically because their own supply chains were not giving the yields hoped.

On the initial doses, you can't read what the UK Vaccine Taskforce themselves said? If you don't like Guardian, the FT etc. then we are into "fake news media" territory with you.
The UK government’s vaccines task force acknowledged on Monday that just 4m doses of the vaccine developed by Oxford university and AstraZeneca would be delivered this year, imported from the Netherlands and Germany. Earlier in the year, the task force had said it envisaged production of 30m doses in the UK by year-end.
Three of them – Oxford/AstraZeneca, Valneva and Novavax – are being manufactured in the UK. The first doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine have been made in the Netherlands and Germany, but 4m doses are already in the country
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... next-month
https://www.ft.com/content/651be7e7-2a4 ... b7e887f6e8

Nobody is sure if doses went out in January and February. What we know is that 4m went out before the end of December. We know that the UK replaced 10m with Indian doses. And we know there's haggling over the output from the Netherlands.

The issue remains the lack of transparency from AZ. I don't have any problem with you going to taking vaccines from India and the developing world when you were supposed to, or indeed AZ supplying from Europe, but the issue has always been how truthful AZ have been in their communications.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:48 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:42 am I don’t think it would improve the quality of service, and I don’t think another nhs pay rise is as popular with the public as some think. The nhs hasn’t had a great pandemic.
You think stressed out, depressed Nurses who want to quit because the rewards are not compensating the workload of the past year and feel underappreciated by society will work as well or as enthusiastically if they are genuinely rewarded for their efforts?

Also regardless of how the NHS has done, no one thinks that's down to what the actual Doctors and Nurses do in the front line. It's the upper brass they blame.
You think they’ll hold patient care to ransom? Clap for nhs was a good idea at the time, then slowly people realised healthcare is fücked by the hospitals being shut. I’m not saying that’s the fault of frontline staff, I’m saying there’s little appetite to reward them- people already in secure jobs.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:49 am
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:47 am I'd have thought that employing more nurses would have a bigger effect on morale if its so low?
This 4% is only for those who survived the pandemic? Or everyone?
I agree. Better pay and more nurses to serve the public is a win-win. More nurses was Johnson's most popular non-Brexit pledge last election.
And if you can't afford to do both? More pay but fewer nurses?

Of cousrse, you know that the fire service, the police, civil servants, coucil workers will all want at least a 4% rise now because it's all so unfair. And this increment only reinforces their argument.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:13 am
Edinburgh01 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:39 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:06 pm For a facility which was intended to provided doses to India and the developing world. The CEO explicitly stated that he did not believe Covax would reach targets. The reality is that these were redirected to western countries, with the UK seemingly the ones to take that up, ahead of developing countries. You either wear that or you don't, but that's reality.
The reality is that doses were not diverted to the UK from developing countries, unless the assurances given by SII were false.
The UK government said the agreement follows assurances from the SII that providing doses to the UK would not impact its commitment to provide vaccines to poorer countries.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SKCN2AV0A2

SII are also seeking clearance to supply to the EU which is touched on at the end of that article.

Your quote re 4m doses coming from the EU from an apparently reliable source explains why you are convinced it is true. I have found one other article of similar vintage that says the same.

I have done you the courtesy of researching your position, and despite spending more time on it than is healthy, more current articles make no mention of this 4m. The only related references I can find are to the EU failing to prove that AZ has exported EU developed vaccines to the UK.

Given that one of the key complaints against AZ from the EU is that they have exported to the UK, had AZ vaccines been imported to the UK as well as Pfizer, you'd think both would still be being reported rather than just Pfizer.

Given that the situation has been dynamic for some time, I'd appreciate it if you'd return the courtesy and point to something more current that refutes the articles I quoted.
They are there in black and white per your own interview.

He does not believe Covax will reach it's targets.

A plant earmarked for developing countries, are diverting supplies to wealthier western nations. This was agreed specifically because their own supply chains were not giving the yields hoped.

On the initial doses, you can't read what the UK Vaccine Taskforce themselves said? If you don't like Guardian, the FT etc. then we are into "fake news media" territory with you.
The UK government’s vaccines task force acknowledged on Monday that just 4m doses of the vaccine developed by Oxford university and AstraZeneca would be delivered this year, imported from the Netherlands and Germany. Earlier in the year, the task force had said it envisaged production of 30m doses in the UK by year-end.
Three of them – Oxford/AstraZeneca, Valneva and Novavax – are being manufactured in the UK. The first doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine have been made in the Netherlands and Germany, but 4m doses are already in the country
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... next-month
https://www.ft.com/content/651be7e7-2a4 ... b7e887f6e8

Nobody is sure if doses went out in January and February. What we know is that 4m went out before the end of December. We know that the UK replaced 10m with Indian doses. And we know there's haggling over the output from the Netherlands.

The issue remains the lack of transparency from AZ. I don't have any problem with you going to taking vaccines from India and the developing world when you were supposed to, or indeed AZ supplying from Europe, but the issue has always been how truthful AZ have been in their communications.
They've been raiding offices with special forces across Europe to find some proof that the UK is somehow getting vaccines from AZ in the EU facilities. They've found nothing, because if they had, given the shit that was rpinted yesterday and the retraction, they'd certainly be trumpeting loud and clear
Last edited by message #2527204 on Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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