Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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RodneyRegis
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by RodneyRegis »

Odval wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:56 pm
Frodder wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:48 pm
Odval wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:45 pm And not only does it kill but it cripples: 10 to 30% of the positive cases evolve into long-Covid form, which is a bad result on all counts;
Are you sure about that stat?

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-5926
Lies, damn lies..
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Edinburgh01
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Edinburgh01 »

Without quoting long previous posts, I doubt if the EU seriously expected AZ to deliver to the schedule. They are not stupid people and must have recognised that there was a risk targets would not be achieved as a new vaccine manufacturing process was ramped up.

What I doubt anyone expected was how catastrophically AZ would miss its targets. The result was the contract was drawn up in the expectation of some flex, but did not cater for the level of shortfall as no one anticipated it.

Given that the AZ vaccine is based on tried and tested technology, I'd suggest it was reasonable for the EU to assume there was a decent chance of successful production upscaling.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Petej »

Edinburgh01 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:04 pm Without quoting long previous posts, I doubt if the EU seriously expected AZ to deliver to the schedule. They are not stupid people and must have recognised that there was a risk targets would not be achieved as a new vaccine manufacturing process was ramped up.

What I doubt anyone expected was how catastrophically AZ would miss its targets. The result was the contract was drawn up in the expectation of some flex, but did not cater for the level of shortfall as no one anticipated it.

Given that the AZ vaccine is based on tried and tested technology, I'd suggest it was reasonable for the EU to assume there was a decent chance of successful production upscaling.
I'm not sure how tried and tested it is with regard to large scale manufacturing. I think a lot of that is pretty novel. There is probably some comms learning AZ could do. Still going to be a massive success story when this all calms down and people look back. Still phenomenal how fast vaccine development has been and the scaling up of manufacturing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000tccg
This was very interesting on the recovery trials. Outstanding work by all the people involved. Also the BBC really is good at science programs and documentaries.
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Edinburgh01
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Edinburgh01 »

Petej wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:42 pmI'm not sure how tried and tested it is with regard to large scale manufacturing. I think a lot of that is pretty novel. There is probably some comms learning AZ could do. Still going to be a massive success story when this all calms down and people look back. Still phenomenal how fast vaccine development has been and the scaling up of manufacturing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000tccg
This was very interesting on the recovery trials. Outstanding work by all the people involved. Also the BBC really is good at science programs and documentaries.
I did see Macron being quoted as saying one of the reasons some did not react a fast as they could was because certain politicians, including himself, just did not believe it was possible to achieve what has been.

To be clear, I am not saying they were stupid to do so, but that the speed caught many people unawares.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

Edinburgh01 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:04 pm Without quoting long previous posts, I doubt if the EU seriously expected AZ to deliver to the schedule. They are not stupid people and must have recognised that there was a risk targets would not be achieved as a new vaccine manufacturing process was ramped up.

What I doubt anyone expected was how catastrophically AZ would miss its targets. The result was the contract was drawn up in the expectation of some flex, but did not cater for the level of shortfall as no one anticipated it.

Given that the AZ vaccine is based on tried and tested technology, I'd suggest it was reasonable for the EU to assume there was a decent chance of successful production upscaling.
Plenty of the EU yes might have had an eye if they knew vaguely anything about biotechnology and ahs half a brain. But are you sure about Von Der Leyen does?

She's the epitome of all that is wrong in politics; her career is family privilege's, nepotism, plagiarism, incompetence, political sniveling and failing upwards. No wonder why she welds power so badly.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by C69 »

eldanielfire wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:10 pm
Edinburgh01 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:04 pm Without quoting long previous posts, I doubt if the EU seriously expected AZ to deliver to the schedule. They are not stupid people and must have recognised that there was a risk targets would not be achieved as a new vaccine manufacturing process was ramped up.

What I doubt anyone expected was how catastrophically AZ would miss its targets. The result was the contract was drawn up in the expectation of some flex, but did not cater for the level of shortfall as no one anticipated it.

Given that the AZ vaccine is based on tried and tested technology, I'd suggest it was reasonable for the EU to assume there was a decent chance of successful production upscaling.
Plenty of the EU yes might have had an eye if they knew vaguely anything about biotechnology and ahs half a brain. But are you sure about Von Der Leyen does?

She's the epitome of all that is wrong in politics; her career is family privilege's, nepotism, plagiarism, incompetence, political sniveling and failing upwards. No wonder why she welds power so badly.
Tbh that personifies Boris exactly
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Edinburgh01
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Edinburgh01 »

eldanielfire wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:10 pm
Edinburgh01 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:04 pm Without quoting long previous posts, I doubt if the EU seriously expected AZ to deliver to the schedule. They are not stupid people and must have recognised that there was a risk targets would not be achieved as a new vaccine manufacturing process was ramped up.

What I doubt anyone expected was how catastrophically AZ would miss its targets. The result was the contract was drawn up in the expectation of some flex, but did not cater for the level of shortfall as no one anticipated it.

Given that the AZ vaccine is based on tried and tested technology, I'd suggest it was reasonable for the EU to assume there was a decent chance of successful production upscaling.
Plenty of the EU yes might have had an eye if they knew vaguely anything about biotechnology and ahs half a brain. But are you sure about Von Der Leyen does?

She's the epitome of all that is wrong in politics; her career is family privilege's, nepotism, plagiarism, incompetence, political sniveling and failing upwards. No wonder why she welds power so badly.
The point I was making was re the drafting of the contract. von der Leyen would have had nothing to do with that.
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terryfinch
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by terryfinch »

From today's Telegraph...

The European Union has clearly decided to withdraw its threat of all out vaccine war with the UK. It is now dumping on the proxy enemy – AstraZeneca – instead. This is the perverse reward that the company gets for its public spirited resolution to offer a life-saving vaccine to the world at cost, thereby relinquishing the incalculably enormous profits that might have been made – and, indeed, are being made by the less altruistic manufacturers of competing vaccines.

Having had its product’s efficacy, reliability and safety repeatedly trashed by European heads of state, to the point where the stocks of its vaccine presently stored in the EU cannot be given away, AstraZeneca is now being accused of reneging on contractual commitments to supply ever more quantities of the substance that Europe has managed, completely unjustifiably, to discredit. This situation is now technically incomprehensible.

So hysterical have the attacks become on this defenceless company – which, as I have suggested, has become the rhetorical stand-in for the UK now so demonstrably, infuriatingly beating the EU in the vaccination race – that the attacks on it verge on the defamatory. One MEP suggested in a broadcast interview last week that the claim that AstraZeneca was not making profits on the sale of its vaccine was somehow doubtful. (“We would have to look at the books”, he said, with triumphant suspicion.)

Not that the UK government itself is completely spared the vituperation. As I write there are still emanations of blustering gibberish directed at UK policy being fired across the Channel. The French foreign minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, has said that the EU would “not be blackmailed” by the UK as a consequence of our decision to offer as many first doses as possible. So far as I can tell, this absurd remark refers to the possibility that we might claim to be running short of second jab vaccines to justify demanding more of the AstraZeneca product (which, until about twenty minutes ago, the EU regarded as inferior). Is that what he means? Your guess is as good as mine.

What on earth do these people think they are doing? Apart, of course, from trying to shift the blame from the hopeless mess they have made of their own vaccination programme which, by unfortunate contrast with their newly independent next door neighbour, could suggest that belonging to the EU and being party to its bloc mentality might not be such a great idea. That conclusion, as we know, would be an existential threat to the entire European project which is why the principal architects of it – France and Germany, whose leaders usually manage to talk intelligible sense – are reduced to incoherence for the moment.

If the idea takes hold that the structures and decision-making processes of the EU are not just cumbersome or vaguely annoying but quite literally life-threatening, that the unity of the bloc matters more to its leaders than the survival of its citizens – well, there will be no coming back from that, will there?


In a superhuman and counter intuitive attempt at broadmindedness I will attempt to give some plausible account of what might be the EU’s current thinking. First, there is the rather unsavoury commercial angle: AstraZeneca’s vaccine development was funded directly by the British Government which is why it was both possible and ethically appropriate for it to be distributed on a non-profit basis. But in creating a publicly-funded competitor to the private pharmaceutical companies, the UK distorted the market: the new entrant could make a cheaper product which undercut the existing manufacturers who are now almost certainly bringing pressure on foreign governments, in the US as well as Europe, to push the interloper out of the picture.

This is in paradoxical contrast to the larger, more idealistic rationale which the EU officially espouses, the key to which lies in those recent additions to its list of favoured abstract nouns. Everybody is now uttering the words “reciprocity” and “proportionality” as if they were an instant moral formula (like the old favourite “solidarity”) which can silence any argument.

What they appear to amount to is the basic soft-socialist concept of fairness – which is to say, everybody must have everything that everybody else has at exactly the same time. This is the traditional basis for wealth redistribution and equality of outcome. Nobody must have any more advantages in terms of wealth, education, health or whatever, than anyone else, even if they have made a greater effort or been of more virtuous character. (Because having the resources to make more of an effort or be more virtuous is itself an unfair advantage.) So it is inherently unfair for the UK to benefit from the fact that it made better and faster decisions about its vaccine programme, including choosing to subsidise its own vaccine development company.

What this amounts to in practice is that no state (EU member or not) should be able to get ahead of any other, whatever the quality of its own decisions and the competence of its management. EU spokesmen were saying quite explicitly when this vindictive row began that the UK rollout should actually be held up until the EU countries, which were performing less well, caught up – even, presumably, if this were to cost lives. Britain should be penalised or handicapped, in other words, for being too successful at preventing serious illness and deaths among its own population. I find the idea that such a notion should be contemplated – let alone shamelessly pronounced as a public statement – pretty staggering.

So, rather oddly, the EU finds itself attacking a vaccine manufacturer which is state-subsidised and declining to make a profit, preferring instead to advance the interests of private, profit-harvesting capitalist outfits, while with its official philosophical hat on, making the case for absolute socialist equality and universally shared benefit. There is something about those shibboleths of “reciprocity” and “proportionality” (and “solidarity” too) that is oddly reminiscent of the unreformed medieval Church trying to fight off, in the name of the greater good, the Protestant notions of individual initiative and the rewarding of competitiveness. And yet the venture which most obviously embodies those social virtues is attacked. Very confusing.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

This is the perverse reward that the company gets for its public spirited resolution to offer a life-saving vaccine to the world at cost, thereby relinquishing the incalculably enormous profits that might have been made – and, indeed, are being made by the less altruistic manufacturers of competing vaccines.
Remember this also results in much less tax on those profits being paid and a return on the budgets.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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eldanielfire wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:10 pm
Edinburgh01 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:04 pm Without quoting long previous posts, I doubt if the EU seriously expected AZ to deliver to the schedule. They are not stupid people and must have recognised that there was a risk targets would not be achieved as a new vaccine manufacturing process was ramped up.

What I doubt anyone expected was how catastrophically AZ would miss its targets. The result was the contract was drawn up in the expectation of some flex, but did not cater for the level of shortfall as no one anticipated it.

Given that the AZ vaccine is based on tried and tested technology, I'd suggest it was reasonable for the EU to assume there was a decent chance of successful production upscaling.
Plenty of the EU yes might have had an eye if they knew vaguely anything about biotechnology and ahs half a brain. But are you sure about Von Der Leyen does?

She's the epitome of all that is wrong in politics; her career is family privilege's, nepotism, plagiarism, incompetence, political sniveling and failing upwards. No wonder why she welds power so badly.
One of the great ironies of Brexit is she'd never have gotten the job if the UK hadn't left.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by mdaclarke »

Edinburgh01 wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:51 am
mdaclarke wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:52 pm Prediction

1. No more AZ vaccine exports from EU to the UK
2. Pfizer vaccine exports from EU to UK will continue
3. Some meaningless agreement will be drawn up between the EU and UK (warm words but no real impact, maybe giving up rights to AZ vaccine in the EU.
4. No exports from UK to EU anytime soon.
I think that is exactly what will happen.

The EU has a moral case with AZ, even if the legalities are messed up. I doubt they would get much censure by acting against them.

Pfizer on the other hand has been reasonable to everyone, and their supply to the UK was always based on production in their EU plants. Taking action that would affect Pfizer fulfilling a commercial contract would be damaging.

That would then allow everyone claim success.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... BJ01K?il=0

Britain nearing vaccine deal with European Union - The Times

Britain is close to striking a vaccine deal with the European Union as soon as this weekend that will remove the threat of the bloc cutting off supplies, The Times reported on Saturday.

Under the agreement the EU will remove its threat to ban the export of Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines to Britain, it added.

In return, the British government will agree to forgo some long-term supplies of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine that had been due to be exported from a factory in Holland run by AstraZeneca’s subcontractor Halix, the newspaper reported.

However, the EU has never threatened a ban on the export of vaccines, but has only said it could block on a case-by-case basis specific vaccine shipments to countries with higher vaccination rates or that do not export vaccines to the EU.

“We are only at the start of discussions with the UK. There are no talks over the weekend,” an EU Commission source said on Saturday, adding that sending vaccines produced at Halix was not part of the talks.

A second EU source had previously said that the EU has no intention of sharing with Britain the vaccine substance from Halix, which is estimated to have already produced enough for about 15-20 million doses, and can produce the equivalent of 5 million shots per month.

The British government, Pfizer-BioNTech, and AstraZeneca were not immediately available for comment.

The EU’s rebuff follows Britain’s repeated refusal to share with Brussels AstraZeneca doses produced at two factories in the UK.

On Friday, the European Medicines Agency approved the Halix production site in the Netherlands that makes the AstraZeneca vaccine and a facility in Marburg in Germany producing BioNTech/Pfizer shots.

The EU’s clearing of the vaccine site comes as the union is banking on it boosting deliveries in the second quarter and accelerate the slow pace of inoculations in the bloc.

Europe’s troubled vaccine rollout has led to a quarrel with Britain, which has imported 21 million doses made in the EU, according to an EU official. Britain says it did a better job negotiating with manufacturers and arranging supply chains.

The EU says that Britain should share more, notably to help make up the shortfall in contracted deliveries of AstraZeneca shots.

Brussels and London sought to cool tensions on Wednesday, declaring they were working “to create a win-win situation and expand vaccine supply for all our citizens”.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

Yer Man wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:22 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:10 pm
Edinburgh01 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:04 pm Without quoting long previous posts, I doubt if the EU seriously expected AZ to deliver to the schedule. They are not stupid people and must have recognised that there was a risk targets would not be achieved as a new vaccine manufacturing process was ramped up.

What I doubt anyone expected was how catastrophically AZ would miss its targets. The result was the contract was drawn up in the expectation of some flex, but did not cater for the level of shortfall as no one anticipated it.

Given that the AZ vaccine is based on tried and tested technology, I'd suggest it was reasonable for the EU to assume there was a decent chance of successful production upscaling.
Plenty of the EU yes might have had an eye if they knew vaguely anything about biotechnology and ahs half a brain. But are you sure about Von Der Leyen does?

She's the epitome of all that is wrong in politics; her career is family privilege's, nepotism, plagiarism, incompetence, political sniveling and failing upwards. No wonder why she welds power so badly.
One of the great ironies of Brexit is she'd never have gotten the job if the UK hadn't left.
Really?

I thought she got the job because they wanted someone not that good who was easy to control, especially Macron and to please Merkel who liked her, despite her career of incompetence, but had to get her out of German politics because she was so toxic (even Merkel who nomionated her couldn't actually vote for her in the end).

I've not read anything that makes Brexit a particular factor.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Edinburgh01 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:04 pm
Petej wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:42 pmI'm not sure how tried and tested it is with regard to large scale manufacturing. I think a lot of that is pretty novel. There is probably some comms learning AZ could do. Still going to be a massive success story when this all calms down and people look back. Still phenomenal how fast vaccine development has been and the scaling up of manufacturing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000tccg
This was very interesting on the recovery trials. Outstanding work by all the people involved. Also the BBC really is good at science programs and documentaries.
I did see Macron being quoted as saying one of the reasons some did not react a fast as they could was because certain politicians, including himself, just did not believe it was possible to achieve what has been.

To be clear, I am not saying they were stupid to do so, but that the speed caught many people unawares.
The position of the French state was made clear many years ago.
French senate vowing that the UK must not be allowed to leave the EU in a better-off position than it is now
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

Boris offering Ireland some vaccines.

Sign me up for some of that good Indian stuff.
tc27
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by tc27 »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:38 pm Boris offering Ireland some vaccines.

Sign me up for some of that good Indian stuff.
We will be checking if you have being rude about us on the Breixt thread before your allowed any.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Ted. »

PUMITA wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:52 pm We would not have needed additional lockdowns if large numbers of idiots who comprise most of the population as evidenced by their behaviour over the last year had followed the rules.

Some of the comments in this thread from a very small clique of posters show there are some rather nasty, selfish, small minded people around.

People like Steve Baker and his cohorts who demanded relaxations in the build up to Christmas despite scientific advice not to do so need a good shoeing.
:thumbup:
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:38 pm Boris offering Ireland some vaccines.

Sign me up for some of that good Indian stuff.
I guess big mullet will have the early call. Hope every vial has a Union Jack on the label :P
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Glaston »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:20 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:38 pm Boris offering Ireland some vaccines.

Sign me up for some of that good Indian stuff.
I guess big mullet will have the early call. Hope every vial has a Union Jack on the label :P
The 5g implants in the vaccine will have a message from Boris rather than Bill Gates.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DragsterDriver »

Glaston wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:01 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:20 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:38 pm Boris offering Ireland some vaccines.

Sign me up for some of that good Indian stuff.
I guess big mullet will have the early call. Hope every vial has a Union Jack on the label :P
The 5g implants in the vaccine will have a message from Boris rather than Bill Gates.
Mr Dominator lusting over saxon beef.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Research by The Prince’s Trust suggested the experience of young people not in education employment or training is more negative than those in work and training.
The neets would usually be drinking outside the local shop or down the park so yeah I guess lockdown has been no fun.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Yeah yeah, what about the R number though?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by MrDominator »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:20 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:38 pm Boris offering Ireland some vaccines.

Sign me up for some of that good Indian stuff.
I guess big mullet will have the early call. Hope every vial has a Union Jack on the label :P
And a free 'I Heart the Pigdogs' bumper sticker
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by iarmhiman »

He's doing it for Northern Ireland.

If we lag too far behind, we're going to be sending infected people across the border.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:37 pm He's doing it for Northern Ireland.

If we lag too far behind, we're going to be sending infected people across the border.
We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by iarmhiman »

message #2527204 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:41 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:37 pm He's doing it for Northern Ireland.

If we lag too far behind, we're going to be sending infected people across the border.
We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
And there is the cynical reason:

Give the vaccines to Ireland before mainland Europe. By doing that he's undermining the EU vaccine rollout.

Divide and rule.

I'll give him the benefit that it's for Northern Ireland but this is the Tories and this is Boris so they're probably up to something geopolitical
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:41 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:37 pm He's doing it for Northern Ireland.

If we lag too far behind, we're going to be sending infected people across the border.
We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
And there is the cynical reason:

Give the vaccines to Ireland before mainland Europe. By doing that he's undermining the EU vaccine rollout.

Divide and rule.

I'll give him the benefit that it's for Northern Ireland but this is the Tories and this is Boris so they're probably up to something geopolitical


How does removing a small burden from the EU roll out undermine the programme. It can only make it better in practical terms.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:41 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:37 pm He's doing it for Northern Ireland.

If we lag too far behind, we're going to be sending infected people across the border.
We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
And there is the cynical reason:

Give the vaccines to Ireland before mainland Europe. By doing that he's undermining the EU vaccine rollout.

Divide and rule.

I'll give him the benefit that it's for Northern Ireland but this is the Tories and this is Boris so they're probably up to something geopolitical
Nah. They'd send AZ to PNG for the Ozzies if it was a political gesture. It's pragmatic as well as annoying VDL.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by iarmhiman »

bimboman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:48 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:41 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:37 pm He's doing it for Northern Ireland.

If we lag too far behind, we're going to be sending infected people across the border.
We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
And there is the cynical reason:

Give the vaccines to Ireland before mainland Europe. By doing that he's undermining the EU vaccine rollout.

Divide and rule.

I'll give him the benefit that it's for Northern Ireland but this is the Tories and this is Boris so they're probably up to something geopolitical


How does removing a small burden from the EU roll out undermine the programme. It can only make it better in practical terms.
Because that's not the intention
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:49 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:48 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:41 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:37 pm He's doing it for Northern Ireland.

If we lag too far behind, we're going to be sending infected people across the border.
We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
And there is the cynical reason:

Give the vaccines to Ireland before mainland Europe. By doing that he's undermining the EU vaccine rollout.

Divide and rule.

I'll give him the benefit that it's for Northern Ireland but this is the Tories and this is Boris so they're probably up to something geopolitical


How does removing a small burden from the EU roll out undermine the programme. It can only make it better in practical terms.
Because that's not the intention
Take off that tinfoil hat, you look silly.

The 'divide and rule' bullshit is just that - bullshit.

Boris is the PM of the UK and it is diplomatic lunacy to insist that he speaks to some unelected head of a trade association like VDL.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:49 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:48 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:41 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:37 pm He's doing it for Northern Ireland.

If we lag too far behind, we're going to be sending infected people across the border.
We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
And there is the cynical reason:

Give the vaccines to Ireland before mainland Europe. By doing that he's undermining the EU vaccine rollout.

Divide and rule.

I'll give him the benefit that it's for Northern Ireland but this is the Tories and this is Boris so they're probably up to something geopolitical


How does removing a small burden from the EU roll out undermine the programme. It can only make it better in practical terms.
Because that's not the intention


If one part of the EU is removed from the EU roll out then the EU roll out is less burdened. Fact.
ovalball
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:49 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:48 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:41 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:37 pm He's doing it for Northern Ireland.

If we lag too far behind, we're going to be sending infected people across the border.
We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
And there is the cynical reason:

Give the vaccines to Ireland before mainland Europe. By doing that he's undermining the EU vaccine rollout.

Divide and rule.

I'll give him the benefit that it's for Northern Ireland but this is the Tories and this is Boris so they're probably up to something geopolitical


How does removing a small burden from the EU roll out undermine the programme. It can only make it better in practical terms.
Because that's not the intention
There's no winning with some people !!!!

They were looking for a win/win situation. Helping Ireland with their vaccination programme would qualify for that. It helps the EU/Ireland and it helps the UK due to the soft border with the South.
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message #2527204
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Location: Ultracrepidaria

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

bimboman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:54 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:49 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:48 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:41 pm

We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
And there is the cynical reason:

Give the vaccines to Ireland before mainland Europe. By doing that he's undermining the EU vaccine rollout.

Divide and rule.

I'll give him the benefit that it's for Northern Ireland but this is the Tories and this is Boris so they're probably up to something geopolitical


How does removing a small burden from the EU roll out undermine the programme. It can only make it better in practical terms.
Because that's not the intention


If one part of the EU is removed from the EU roll out then the EU roll out is less burdened. Fact.
Look at hungary. Doing wonderfully with their roll out after extra supplies.
DAC_
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DAC_ »

iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:41 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:37 pm He's doing it for Northern Ireland.

If we lag too far behind, we're going to be sending infected people across the border.
We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
And there is the cynical reason:

Give the vaccines to Ireland before mainland Europe. By doing that he's undermining the EU vaccine rollout.

Divide and rule.

I'll give him the benefit that it's for Northern Ireland but this is the Tories and this is Boris so they're probably up to something geopolitical
Federalists gonna Federalise.
DAC_
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DAC_ »

Why are our Irish step-cousins forgetting the relationship we have with their country and how it benefits them far more than us. Given the flow of people between the two it would make sense if the UK helps as it seems their Federalist Government is unable to at this time. Vaccinating Irish citizens would help keep the UK infection rate down.
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message #2527204
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Location: Ultracrepidaria

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

DAC_ wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm Why are our Irish step-cousins forgetting the relationship we have with their country and how it benefits them far more than us. Given the flow of people between the two it would make sense if the UK helps as it seems their Federalist Government is unable to at this time. Vaccinating Irish citizens would help keep the UK infection rate down.
It's the other way around. Vaccinating would stop Irish citizens from dying due to vaccinated UK citizens.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Duff Paddy »

DAC_ wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm Why are our Irish step-cousins forgetting the relationship we have with their country and how it benefits them far more than us. Given the flow of people between the two it would make sense if the UK helps as it seems their Federalist Government is unable to at this time. Vaccinating Irish citizens would help keep the UK infection rate down.
We have way lower covid than the UK
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MrDominator
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by MrDominator »

Duff Paddy wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:28 pm
DAC_ wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm Why are our Irish step-cousins forgetting the relationship we have with their country and how it benefits them far more than us. Given the flow of people between the two it would make sense if the UK helps as it seems their Federalist Government is unable to at this time. Vaccinating Irish citizens would help keep the UK infection rate down.
We have way lower covid than the UK
Que?

Your current infection rate is higher than ours.

50% higher according to Our World in Data.
ovalball
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:56 pm
Duff Paddy wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:28 pm
DAC_ wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm Why are our Irish step-cousins forgetting the relationship we have with their country and how it benefits them far more than us. Given the flow of people between the two it would make sense if the UK helps as it seems their Federalist Government is unable to at this time. Vaccinating Irish citizens would help keep the UK infection rate down.
We have way lower covid than the UK
Que?

Your current infection rate is higher than ours.

50% higher according to Our World in Data.
UK also carry out about twice as many tests (per 100000) than Ireland.
mdaclarke
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by mdaclarke »

ovalball wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:56 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:49 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:48 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:41 pm

We have an open land border with Ireland, makes sense that once we ease restrictions, we won't be sending any virus to eire.
And there is the cynical reason:

Give the vaccines to Ireland before mainland Europe. By doing that he's undermining the EU vaccine rollout.

Divide and rule.

I'll give him the benefit that it's for Northern Ireland but this is the Tories and this is Boris so they're probably up to something geopolitical


How does removing a small burden from the EU roll out undermine the programme. It can only make it better in practical terms.
Because that's not the intention
There's no winning with some people !!!!

They were looking for a win/win situation. Helping Ireland with their vaccination programme would qualify for that. It helps the EU/Ireland and it helps the UK due to the soft border with the South.
I think it is being offered to kill 2 birds with 1 stone
1. to help out Northern Ireland so we don't have to close the border
2. to rub the EU's noses in it.

Not sure which 1 is the primary motivation.
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