Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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happyhooker
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by happyhooker »

eldanielfire wrote:
backrow wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
redderneck wrote:Far be it for me to defend them, but that's a price list. It doesn't indicate old pricing nor does it make clear there is any price increase involved. Mentions a price change. Without a comparator, it's proof of nothing...???
Read the news stories connected with it and on TV Multiple sources confirmed the repricing and raising of prices.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... es-50.html
Ah now puttingnprices up 50% is a cnunts trick and I hope he goes bust
If it was w standard price increase then could have been already planned. Sadly I don’t think his clientele will vote with their feet once normality resumes
His justification was SD sells cheaply anyway and it would still be below market value. That is true, but it's the taking advantage which matters. I wish there was a realistic alternative to SD around that was similarly as cheap and big.
Decathlon?
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Short Man Syndrome
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Apparently, Aragorn son of Arathorn has contracted coronavirus. They are treating him with the air of Isildur.
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CM11
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

c69 wrote:
CM11 wrote: If you're saying that it's more frail first, I'm sure that's how it started in Italy too.
I am saying if you are frail as per the score you wont be escalted to ICU or have agressive treatment
:thumbup:
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Uncle Fester
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Uncle Fester »

camroc1 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Lenny wrote:C69, have you heard anything about issues with oxygen production? A medic mate of mine told me that its a big problem in Italy, with hospital requirements massively exceeding Italy's production capacity.
Anecdotally, we couldn't get any gas deliveries in the last week or so before we shut down. Hospitals being prioritised. Couldn't get any gloves either.
The plants that make it are capital intensive and you can't ramp up production at the drop off a hat. Demands are increasing by factors of 10-20. You can't have that much spare capacity in the system in "peacetime" and still make ends meet.
Will there be a problem in Ireland, Fester ?
We've loads of rope to play out so no immediate need for concern. Lots of emergency planning gone in for some pretty bad case scenarios.

My understanding is that the first bottleneck will be the ventilators. You can have all the OXY you want but you need ventilators to feed it to the patients.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Duff Paddy wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:21 year old woman in Buckinghamshire dies from Covid-19 and she had no underlying health issues

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/25/woman-21 ... e.top.link
RIP
How is this not getting more traction. Certainly shocking news. A swift end to the “it’s just a flu” and the “it only affects old people” brigade.
Sent the link to our 17 year old apprentice who also comes from Buckinghamshire and hasn't been taking this seriously. She said it made her cry.

At last
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CM11
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

Uncle Fester wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Lenny wrote:C69, have you heard anything about issues with oxygen production? A medic mate of mine told me that its a big problem in Italy, with hospital requirements massively exceeding Italy's production capacity.
Anecdotally, we couldn't get any gas deliveries in the last week or so before we shut down. Hospitals being prioritised. Couldn't get any gloves either.
The plants that make it are capital intensive and you can't ramp up production at the drop off a hat. Demands are increasing by factors of 10-20. You can't have that much spare capacity in the system in "peacetime" and still make ends meet.
Will there be a problem in Ireland, Fester ?
We've loads of rope to play out so no immediate need for concern. Lots of emergency planning gone in for some pretty bad case scenarios.

My understanding is that the first bottleneck will be the ventilators. You can have all the OXY you want but you need ventilators to feed it to the patients.
Aren't there loads of people with this just on oxygen though?
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Winnie
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Winnie »

Yer Man wrote:
CM11 wrote:
ID2 wrote:Spain now has more deaths than China. 738 dead in 24 hours. Less attention on Spain than Italy but the seem to be in worse shape
Spain has been heading towards being worse than Italy for over a week now. It's been flagged on here but the focus will remain on Italy as we observe whether they've peaked.

Unfortunately Spain looks like it'll have a higher peak.
Extrapolating the death rates, Spain will overtake Italy at the end of this month (at about 15k - 16k).

USA could overtake Italy in early April.
Big problems in Spain, Italy, France, NY
Sweden, Germany, Holland handling it much better

Seems to affect predominantly Roman Catholic areas worse



























Before Cammy has a stroke, I'm only teasing FFS
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6.Jones
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by 6.Jones »

LandOTurk wrote:
6.Jones wrote:Since we're in the gallows humor phase, at Christmas I started work on a zombie novel. Apropos of nothing, except perhaps a ghoulish laugh, here's the beginning.
Spoiler: show
Prelude - Godwin's Law

I thought I'd get this out of the way at the start. This story's about Nazis.
This story also has an omniscient narrator. It isn't the author. I've already eaten his brains.
Godwin's Law states that as a discussion grows longer, the probability of someone making a comparison involving Nazis approaches unity. The longer the conversation, the more likely some sap mentions Hitler. What's not widely known is the Law's an invention of Nazis, intended to chill the discussion of Nazis online. You might wonder how a corrupt political movement from the past can have the power to nurture an Internet meme.
This is that story.
These are those Nazis.

The best viruses use the power of compound interest to earn a profit on their investment. Take your Ebola. Victims bleed out. If you haven't seen it yourself, you can't imagine how disgusting that is. The important thing is, before the patient dies, they must infect more victims. If a virus can infect two people before killing its host, then ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves an epidemic.
Like many deadly viruses, the Nanozombie virus came about by the accidental mixing of viruses from unrelated species. The Christian celebrity homemaker Betty Bowers was making turducken for Christmas. Don't be misled by the word 'turd'. Turducken's a feast, where a chicken is stuffed in a duck, inside a turkey. Little did Betty know that this would result in the combination of three hitherto harmless viruses, into a super virus, and the end of human life as we know it.
Where is your god now, Betty Bowers?

It was a cold day in the Bowers house that fateful Christmas eve. A shroud of white had turned downtown Spokane into a winter wonderland. Children were singing carols for drugs on the green. Christmas lights sputtered and fizzed with the power supply. Nothing worked, since America decided to burn only coal, to trigger inner-city liberals. Betty was putting her bondage toys away: wrist and ankle restraints, and spreader bars. The first hint that Betty had that something was wrong was when little Lucifer came gnashing and writhing out of the kitchen.
The first thing she thought was demonic possession. Thankfully, she kept a phial of holy water on hand for such occasions. The problem was it was in the kitchen. Thankfully, her husband Lars was a white supremacist and he kept a rack of guns by the door, in case of black people. She picked out a gun - a Remington 870-barrel 12-gauge 28" vent rib barrel modified - and blew little Lucy away. One moment the poor child was writhing and gnashing, then his brains were all over the velvet flock wallpaper.
She recoiled in horror. What had she done? Without thinking, she ran a finger through the brains, and tasted them.
That was ground zero.
Which basically shows how easily new viruses occur.
Lovely start :uhoh: Put me right off the rest of it. How does it end? Well or poorly?

I thought I'd get this out of the way at the start. This story's about Nazis.
It ends poorly. However don't take that too badly. It's inspired by a wonderful quote.
"At least death is not hidden away: he looks at it face to face, with impatience, disdain or irony."
Octavio Paz
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tiddle
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by tiddle »

Winnie wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
CM11 wrote:
ID2 wrote:Spain now has more deaths than China. 738 dead in 24 hours. Less attention on Spain than Italy but the seem to be in worse shape
Spain has been heading towards being worse than Italy for over a week now. It's been flagged on here but the focus will remain on Italy as we observe whether they've peaked.

Unfortunately Spain looks like it'll have a higher peak.
Extrapolating the death rates, Spain will overtake Italy at the end of this month (at about 15k - 16k).

USA could overtake Italy in early April.
Big problems in Spain, Italy, France, NY
Sweden, Germany, Holland handling it much better

Seems to affect predominantly Roman Catholic areas worse
makes sense since catholics prefer unprotected human contact
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Yer Man »

I wouldn't be too smug about any country's death rate until this is all over.
And that probably won't be until mid 2021.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DragsterDriver »

DragsterDriver wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... 1585146737

More backstreet engineering i expect.
Hello, big news!
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camroc1
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by camroc1 »

Uncle Fester wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Lenny wrote:C69, have you heard anything about issues with oxygen production? A medic mate of mine told me that its a big problem in Italy, with hospital requirements massively exceeding Italy's production capacity.
Anecdotally, we couldn't get any gas deliveries in the last week or so before we shut down. Hospitals being prioritised. Couldn't get any gloves either.
The plants that make it are capital intensive and you can't ramp up production at the drop off a hat. Demands are increasing by factors of 10-20. You can't have that much spare capacity in the system in "peacetime" and still make ends meet.
Will there be a problem in Ireland, Fester ?
We've loads of rope to play out so no immediate need for concern. Lots of emergency planning gone in for some pretty bad case scenarios.

My understanding is that the first bottleneck will be the ventilators. You can have all the OXY you want but you need ventilators to feed it to the patients.
:thumbup:
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Duff Paddy
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Duff Paddy »

DragsterDriver wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... 1585146737

More backstreet engineering i expect.
That would be an absolute game changer
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by camroc1 »

CM11 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
Nolanator wrote: Anecdotally, we couldn't get any gas deliveries in the last week or so before we shut down. Hospitals being prioritised. Couldn't get any gloves either.
The plants that make it are capital intensive and you can't ramp up production at the drop off a hat. Demands are increasing by factors of 10-20. You can't have that much spare capacity in the system in "peacetime" and still make ends meet.
Will there be a problem in Ireland, Fester ?
We've loads of rope to play out so no immediate need for concern. Lots of emergency planning gone in for some pretty bad case scenarios.

My understanding is that the first bottleneck will be the ventilators. You can have all the OXY you want but you need ventilators to feed it to the patients.
Aren't there loads of people with this just on oxygen though?
Using nebulisers - which is where the health professionals are getting infected. With full intubation the patient wears a mask which stops the virus going into the atmosphere on exhalation. With a nebuliser the oxygen goes in through the nose and the patient exhales normally including waterdroplets containing the virus. This is where some of the quickly banged up "vacuam cleaner " ventilators come in as they can be used to ventilate the room or "tent" catching the virus in its filters.
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CM11
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

Cheers, cam.

So ideally you'd either be able to deal with this at home or be on a ventilator? Nothing in between?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by camroc1 »

CM11 wrote:Cheers, cam.

So ideally you'd either be able to deal with this at home or be on a ventilator? Nothing in between?
I suspect anyone who is hospitalised is on a nebuliser at least.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by OptimisticJock »

camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote: The plants that make it are capital intensive and you can't ramp up production at the drop off a hat. Demands are increasing by factors of 10-20. You can't have that much spare capacity in the system in "peacetime" and still make ends meet.
Will there be a problem in Ireland, Fester ?
We've loads of rope to play out so no immediate need for concern. Lots of emergency planning gone in for some pretty bad case scenarios.

My understanding is that the first bottleneck will be the ventilators. You can have all the OXY you want but you need ventilators to feed it to the patients.
Aren't there loads of people with this just on oxygen though?
Using nebulisers - which is where the health professionals are getting infected. With full intubation the patient wears a mask which stops the virus going into the atmosphere on exhalation. With a nebuliser the oxygen goes in through the nose and the patient exhales normally including waterdroplets containing the virus. This is where some of the quickly banged up "vacuam cleaner " ventilators come in as they can be used to ventilate the room or "tent" catching the virus in its filters.
Nebulisers aren't considered to be an AGP
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by backrow »

eldanielfire wrote:
backrow wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
redderneck wrote:Far be it for me to defend them, but that's a price list. It doesn't indicate old pricing nor does it make clear there is any price increase involved. Mentions a price change. Without a comparator, it's proof of nothing...???
Read the news stories connected with it and on TV Multiple sources confirmed the repricing and raising of prices.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... es-50.html
Ah now puttingnprices up 50% is a cnunts trick and I hope he goes bust
If it was w standard price increase then could have been already planned. Sadly I don’t think his clientele will vote with their feet once normality resumes
His justification was SD sells cheaply anyway and it would still be below market value. That is true, but it's the taking advantage which matters. I wish there was a realistic alternative to SD around that was similarly as cheap and big.
utter bullshit, his idea of 'market value' is purely arbitory and bears no relation to anything really, that's why his tatty stores always have sales on. His shops would have been selling it and making a profit at the old price, and his rises were just simple supply and demand profiteering from self obsesses gym freaks like Nolanator
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

CM11 wrote:Cheers, cam.

So ideally you'd either be able to deal with this at home or be on a ventilator? Nothing in between?

It’s an amazing reach of expertise you’re expecting here. :thumbup:
goeagles
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by goeagles »

eldanielfire wrote:
goeagles wrote:Also, we have a lot of problems, but you guys make it out like our health care system is 3rd world, which is decidedly not the case. It's horrendously expensive, but it's also one of the best in the world. Most studies you see ranking us low in the OECD are due to cost, not due to the level of care. Take, for example, this graphic:

Image
It's one of the best if you can afford to access it. When a significant proportion of your population regularly makes decisions to not have health issues seen to due to cost, ti's a terrible system. I mean how muhc does the $700 price tag to getting tested for the Corona Virus hamper the ability to track and contain it?
Follow the thread. You had posters claiming we were headed for a unique disaster here because of our health care system. That’s clearly not the case. My understanding is that testing is now free (insurer picks up the whole tab if insured, government picks up tab for uninsured) at point of service.
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message #2527204
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Duff Paddy wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... 1585146737

More backstreet engineering i expect.
That would be an absolute game changer
Hope they work... And he hasn't ordered 3.5m pregnancy test kits by mistake.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

goeagles wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
goeagles wrote:Also, we have a lot of problems, but you guys make it out like our health care system is 3rd world, which is decidedly not the case. It's horrendously expensive, but it's also one of the best in the world. Most studies you see ranking us low in the OECD are due to cost, not due to the level of care. Take, for example, this graphic:

Image
It's one of the best if you can afford to access it. When a significant proportion of your population regularly makes decisions to not have health issues seen to due to cost, ti's a terrible system. I mean how muhc does the $700 price tag to getting tested for the Corona Virus hamper the ability to track and contain it?
Follow the thread. You had posters claiming we were headed for a unique disaster here because of our health care system. That’s clearly not the case. My understanding is that testing is now free (insurer picks up the whole tab if insured, government picks up tab for uninsured) at point of service.
Sounds a bit commie to me. Won't the insurance industry be ruined?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DragsterDriver »

message #2527204 wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... 1585146737

More backstreet engineering i expect.
That would be an absolute game changer
Hope they work... And he hasn't ordered 3.5m pregnancy test kits by mistake.
They might be useful next month :uhoh:

Seem confident and yeah, would be a game changer indeed.
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message #2527204
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

DragsterDriver wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... 1585146737

More backstreet engineering i expect.
That would be an absolute game changer
Hope they work... And he hasn't ordered 3.5m pregnancy test kits by mistake.
They might be useful next month :uhoh:

Seem confident and yeah, would be a game changer indeed.
More boomers?
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

happyhooker wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
backrow wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
redderneck wrote:Far be it for me to defend them, but that's a price list. It doesn't indicate old pricing nor does it make clear there is any price increase involved. Mentions a price change. Without a comparator, it's proof of nothing...???
Read the news stories connected with it and on TV Multiple sources confirmed the repricing and raising of prices.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... es-50.html
Ah now puttingnprices up 50% is a cnunts trick and I hope he goes bust
If it was w standard price increase then could have been already planned. Sadly I don’t think his clientele will vote with their feet once normality resumes
His justification was SD sells cheaply anyway and it would still be below market value. That is true, but it's the taking advantage which matters. I wish there was a realistic alternative to SD around that was similarly as cheap and big.
Decathlon?
Their alright, but not on par with SD clothing or trainer offer.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by goeagles »

message #2527204 wrote:
goeagles wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
goeagles wrote:Also, we have a lot of problems, but you guys make it out like our health care system is 3rd world, which is decidedly not the case. It's horrendously expensive, but it's also one of the best in the world. Most studies you see ranking us low in the OECD are due to cost, not due to the level of care. Take, for example, this graphic:

Image
It's one of the best if you can afford to access it. When a significant proportion of your population regularly makes decisions to not have health issues seen to due to cost, ti's a terrible system. I mean how muhc does the $700 price tag to getting tested for the Corona Virus hamper the ability to track and contain it?
Follow the thread. You had posters claiming we were headed for a unique disaster here because of our health care system. That’s clearly not the case. My understanding is that testing is now free (insurer picks up the whole tab if insured, government picks up tab for uninsured) at point of service.
Sounds a bit commie to me. Won't the insurance industry be ruined?
I'm sure there will be a bailout if it comes to that.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DragsterDriver »

message #2527204 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... 1585146737

More backstreet engineering i expect.
That would be an absolute game changer
Hope they work... And he hasn't ordered 3.5m pregnancy test kits by mistake.
They might be useful next month :uhoh:

Seem confident and yeah, would be a game changer indeed.
More boomers?
Lot's of little Covids and Quarantines running around.
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CM11
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:Cheers, cam.

So ideally you'd either be able to deal with this at home or be on a ventilator? Nothing in between?
I suspect anyone who is hospitalised is on a nebuliser at least.
Yes, but your point was that they're not good to use for this virus so you'd prefer a ventilator?
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Calculus
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Calculus »

zzzz wrote:
The goal of UK pandaemic policy was to flatten the curve to buy time for a vaccine. The end goal for C19, as with any infectous disease, is herd immunity i.e. a state where a sufficently large group have been either exposed or vaccinated that even those who haven't are protected. But tough to do this with a virus that keeps mutating - which is why we still have no herd immunity to seasonal flu. These are different things.

Do you have any evidence for this?, Genuine question (although if the evidence is from some shite opinion piece in the Spectator, don't bother) as from the little I've read, covid19 likely doesn't have the same mutation rate as that of the flu viruses. I've posted this at the start of the thread and its from a conference in the first week of February so hardly up to date:

9. What is the probability that this will be contained and eradicated or will it be endemic in the human population?

If it is like SARS it will not be endemic. It most likely will be a hit and run just like SARS. People talk about mutation but what we found with SARS was that there was no mutation and we have been tracking MERS and we have not seen any severe mutation. This is unlike the common coronavirus which when they replicate they don’t have a ”spell check” so they mutate. So if this virus follows the same path as SARS or MERS it won’t mutate. This will not be endemic. I think it will burn itself out in about 6 months.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

goeagles wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
goeagles wrote:Also, we have a lot of problems, but you guys make it out like our health care system is 3rd world, which is decidedly not the case. It's horrendously expensive, but it's also one of the best in the world. Most studies you see ranking us low in the OECD are due to cost, not due to the level of care. Take, for example, this graphic:

Image
It's one of the best if you can afford to access it. When a significant proportion of your population regularly makes decisions to not have health issues seen to due to cost, ti's a terrible system. I mean how muhc does the $700 price tag to getting tested for the Corona Virus hamper the ability to track and contain it?
Follow the thread. You had posters claiming we were headed for a unique disaster here because of our health care system. That’s clearly not the case. My understanding is that testing is now free (insurer picks up the whole tab if insured, government picks up tab for uninsured) at point of service.
So those posters where right. Without the changes recently made the USA health care system was heading towards Corona-disaster. The tests may be free now, what about treatment? Is that free?
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camroc1
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by camroc1 »

CM11 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:Cheers, cam.

So ideally you'd either be able to deal with this at home or be on a ventilator? Nothing in between?
I suspect anyone who is hospitalised is on a nebuliser at least.
Yes, but your point was that they're not good to use for this virus so you'd prefer a ventilator?
They're no good for anyone that requires ICU care.
goeagles
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by goeagles »

eldanielfire wrote:
goeagles wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
goeagles wrote:Also, we have a lot of problems, but you guys make it out like our health care system is 3rd world, which is decidedly not the case. It's horrendously expensive, but it's also one of the best in the world. Most studies you see ranking us low in the OECD are due to cost, not due to the level of care. Take, for example, this graphic:

Image
It's one of the best if you can afford to access it. When a significant proportion of your population regularly makes decisions to not have health issues seen to due to cost, ti's a terrible system. I mean how muhc does the $700 price tag to getting tested for the Corona Virus hamper the ability to track and contain it?
Follow the thread. You had posters claiming we were headed for a unique disaster here because of our health care system. That’s clearly not the case. My understanding is that testing is now free (insurer picks up the whole tab if insured, government picks up tab for uninsured) at point of service.
So those posters where right. Without the changes recently made the USA health care system was heading towards Corona-disaster. The tests may be free now, what about treatment? Is that free?
No, they were misinformed and wrong. Read the thread. Treatment is not free but the cost will be a financial/social issue, not a public health issue. I covered that in the post immediately before the one you originally responded to.
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CM11
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by CM11 »

camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:Cheers, cam.

So ideally you'd either be able to deal with this at home or be on a ventilator? Nothing in between?
I suspect anyone who is hospitalised is on a nebuliser at least.
Yes, but your point was that they're not good to use for this virus so you'd prefer a ventilator?
They're no good for anyone that requires ICU care.
I think we're going around in circles. I was following on from your point that you either upgrade someone to a ventilator or downgrade them to home if a nebuliser is too high a risk for spreading the virus.
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DOB
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by DOB »

eldanielfire wrote:
goeagles wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
goeagles wrote:Also, we have a lot of problems, but you guys make it out like our health care system is 3rd world, which is decidedly not the case. It's horrendously expensive, but it's also one of the best in the world. Most studies you see ranking us low in the OECD are due to cost, not due to the level of care. Take, for example, this graphic:

Image
It's one of the best if you can afford to access it. When a significant proportion of your population regularly makes decisions to not have health issues seen to due to cost, ti's a terrible system. I mean how muhc does the $700 price tag to getting tested for the Corona Virus hamper the ability to track and contain it?
Follow the thread. You had posters claiming we were headed for a unique disaster here because of our health care system. That’s clearly not the case. My understanding is that testing is now free (insurer picks up the whole tab if insured, government picks up tab for uninsured) at point of service.
So those posters where right. Without the changes recently made the USA health care system was heading towards Corona-disaster. The tests may be free now, what about treatment? Is that free?
Trump said it would be free, but they had to walk that back. The billing cycle hasn’t come in yet for everyone who’s being treated for this. The health insurance companies make enormous profits year on year, so they’re going to be fine, the problem will be when the uninsured start receiving treatment in ERs in their hundreds and thousands. The capacity might well be there to treat them, but afterwards someone is going to come looking to get paid, and that’s when things will get messy.

If the insurance companies have any sense of self preservation, they’ll make damn sure nobody is out of pocket for their Covid treatment, because there’s not much that will pump up the Bernie side of the healthcare debate than millions of working Americans losing their houses over Coronavirus.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

goeagles wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
goeagles wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
goeagles wrote:Also, we have a lot of problems, but you guys make it out like our health care system is 3rd world, which is decidedly not the case. It's horrendously expensive, but it's also one of the best in the world. Most studies you see ranking us low in the OECD are due to cost, not due to the level of care. Take, for example, this graphic:

Image
It's one of the best if you can afford to access it. When a significant proportion of your population regularly makes decisions to not have health issues seen to due to cost, ti's a terrible system. I mean how muhc does the $700 price tag to getting tested for the Corona Virus hamper the ability to track and contain it?
Follow the thread. You had posters claiming we were headed for a unique disaster here because of our health care system. That’s clearly not the case. My understanding is that testing is now free (insurer picks up the whole tab if insured, government picks up tab for uninsured) at point of service.
So those posters where right. Without the changes recently made the USA health care system was heading towards Corona-disaster. The tests may be free now, what about treatment? Is that free?
No, they were misinformed and wrong. Read the thread. Treatment is not free but the cost will be a financial/social issue, not a public health issue. I covered that in the post immediately before the one you originally responded to.
So you don't believe some poor american's won't avoid hospital to avoid the cost as they do regularly already? That's a public health issue.
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message #2527204
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

Calculus wrote:
zzzz wrote:
The goal of UK pandaemic policy was to flatten the curve to buy time for a vaccine. The end goal for C19, as with any infectous disease, is herd immunity i.e. a state where a sufficently large group have been either exposed or vaccinated that even those who haven't are protected. But tough to do this with a virus that keeps mutating - which is why we still have no herd immunity to seasonal flu. These are different things.

Do you have any evidence for this?, Genuine question (although if the evidence is from some shite opinion piece in the Spectator, don't bother) as from the little I've read, covid19 likely doesn't have the same mutation rate as that of the flu viruses. I've posted this at the start of the thread and its from a conference in the first week of February so hardly up to date:

9. What is the probability that this will be contained and eradicated or will it be endemic in the human population?

If it is like SARS it will not be endemic. It most likely will be a hit and run just like SARS. People talk about mutation but what we found with SARS was that there was no mutation and we have been tracking MERS and we have not seen any severe mutation. This is unlike the common coronavirus which when they replicate they don’t have a ”spell check” so they mutate. So if this virus follows the same path as SARS or MERS it won’t mutate. This will not be endemic. I think it will burn itself out in about 6 months.
It's already mutated. There are quite a few strains already. There was a map somewhere showing the prevalence of different strains around the world.

If only we had a virologist amongst the bored.
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OptimisticJock
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by OptimisticJock »

CM11 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
CM11 wrote:Cheers, cam.

So ideally you'd either be able to deal with this at home or be on a ventilator? Nothing in between?
I suspect anyone who is hospitalised is on a nebuliser at least.
Yes, but your point was that they're not good to use for this virus so you'd prefer a ventilator?
They're no good for anyone that requires ICU care.
I think we're going around in circles. I was following on from your point that you either upgrade someone to a ventilator or downgrade them to home if a nebuliser is too high a risk for spreading the virus.
It's not a high risk. It's not considered an AGP (aerosol generating procedure). I can't copy and paste the link from our app. If you're really interested I can look for an email.
goeagles
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by goeagles »

eldanielfire wrote:
So you don't believe some poor american's won't avoid hospital to avoid the cost as they do regularly already? That's a public health issue.
I believe you should try following the thread:
That might apply to many scenarios, but I think it's at worst neutral here in terms of combating the virus and potentially a positive. Given the serious overload of the health care system from the serious cases of COVID-19, people should not be seeking treatment for COVID-19 unless they are suffering the more serious symptoms like significant shortness of breath. People seek over-treatment all the time and even more so when it's free at the point of service. Just look at how many people ask for antibiotics, and sometimes get them prescribed (!), for viral infections. Having a deterrent to seeking treatment might be quite bad in some scenarios but good in certain scenarios. This is one of the good times as it reduces the burden on our health care system at a time it is being overloaded. No one, or very few people, will not seek treatment due to cost after the fact when they can't breathe. They're going to seek treatment at that point basically no matter what. If you want to talk about the ethics of that, it's another discussion but it's not something that is going to radically burden our health care system and make things much worse here.
http://forum.planetrugby.com/viewtopic. ... 0#p6514304
goeagles
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by goeagles »

DOB wrote: Trump said it would be free, but they had to walk that back. The billing cycle hasn’t come in yet for everyone who’s being treated for this. The health insurance companies make enormous profits year on year, so they’re going to be fine, the problem will be when the uninsured start receiving treatment in ERs in their hundreds and thousands. The capacity might well be there to treat them, but afterwards someone is going to come looking to get paid, and that’s when things will get messy.

If the insurance companies have any sense of self preservation, they’ll make damn sure nobody is out of pocket for their Covid treatment, because there’s not much that will pump up the Bernie side of the healthcare debate than millions of working Americans losing their houses over Coronavirus.
No, Congress passed it as part of a bill a week ago: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-con ... -bill/6201
The bill also includes provisions that

establish a federal emergency paid leave benefits program to provide payments to employees taking unpaid leave due to the coronavirus outbreak,
expand unemployment benefits and provide grants to states for processing and paying claims,
require employers to provide paid sick leave to employees,
establish requirements for providing coronavirus diagnostic testing at no cost to consumers,
treat personal respiratory protective devices as covered countermeasures that are eligible for certain liability protections, and
temporarily increase the Medicaid federal medical assistance percentage (FMAP).
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