Planet Rugby Forum

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:03 pm

Salanya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:54 pm Chipspike, I know you're a bit of a troll, but your point has nothing to do with my post.

I said that the pandemic is hard to manage for all countries and governments. It's a very successful virus. The point is that the UK government are handling it badly.
As I'm sure you know, many European countries are already in lockdown in response to rising numbers, and their governments have effectively communicated this with their people.

But if you want a response to your point: the UK has the advantage over the likes of Belgium and the Netherlands that is not as densely populated. Obviously the London area is very densely populated, so why it took the government so long to take action is just another example to prove my original point.

The lockdowns are to prevent health services from being overwhelmed, not to eradicate the virus.

I didn't say anything about 'eradicating' the virus, I'm talking about managing the pandemic.

Salanya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:54 pm Chipspike, I know you're a bit of a troll, but your point has nothing to do with my post.

I said that the pandemic is hard to manage for all countries and governments. It's a very successful virus. The point is that the UK government are handling it badly.
As I'm sure you know, many European countries are already in lockdown in response to rising numbers, and their governments have effectively communicated this with their people.

But if you want a response to your point: the UK has the advantage over the likes of Belgium and the Netherlands that is not as densely populated. Obviously the London area is very densely populated, so why it took the government so long to take action is just another example to prove my original point.

I'm not trolling, just looking at the figures we have. You say some of the countries have higher pop densities, thats true, whats also true is that we have lower cases per million than them, which supports the idea that the way this is being managed is not worse in the UK. France, on the other hand, has half the pop density of the UK, but worse cases per million. Italy also has lower pop density but higher cases. So in terms of how many cases we have I would say the figures mean UK isn't doing that badly.

So looks like we're introducing a ban on travel from Great Britain for 48 hours subject to review.

I fear it's too late

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:17 pm So looks like we're introducing a ban on travel from Great Britain for 48 hours subject to review.

I fear it's too late

you need to start vaccinating, pronto.

openclashXX wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:57 pm Belgium, Netherlands, Austria and Italy already confirmed as suspending flights from UK because of this new strain

Germany and France confirmed to be considering, now also Ireland

does this belong in the corona thread or the Brexit one?

and now Kuwait becomes the first non-European country to announce a UK flight ban - https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-healt ... KKBN28U0K3

like dominoes

36000 cases reported today

Need to put everything into getting the vaccination programme sped up.

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:24 pm 36000 cases reported today

Need to put everything into getting the vaccination programme sped up.

Indeed. I was also shocked to hear that Germany's daily death total per million overtook the UKs one this past month, perhaps the UK should have stayed in the soft lockdown?



Has there been any reports about how that came to be? Also how did Italy's surge so highly again?

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:24 pm 36000 cases reported today

Need to put everything into getting the vaccination programme sped up.

Isn't our only vaccine supplier manufactured in Belgium?

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:52 pm

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:24 pm 36000 cases reported today

Need to put everything into getting the vaccination programme sped up.

Indeed. I was also shocked to hear that Germany's daily death total per million overtook the UKs one this past month, perhaps the UK should have stayed in the soft lockdown?



Has there been any reports about how that came to be? Also how did Italy's surge so highly again?

Not ignoring that other countries have bad death totals too, don't forget that the UK is reporting the deaths within 28 days of testing positive only - the real numbers are probably around 10k higher.
Whereas for example Belgium seem to be reporting any deaths associated with Covid-19.

Germany's numbers have really surged recently, hence they've gone into lockdown, same for the Netherlands. Italy has been up and down throughout the year, mostly up - from reports it seems to be that their health service seems to struggle to cope with the surges.

Druid wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:03 pm

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:24 pm 36000 cases reported today

Need to put everything into getting the vaccination programme sped up.

Isn't our only vaccine supplier manufactured in Belgium?

We should have the Oxford version available by year end - logistically that will be easier to manage.

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:27 pm

Druid wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:03 pm

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:24 pm 36000 cases reported today

Need to put everything into getting the vaccination programme sped up.

Isn't our only vaccine supplier manufactured in Belgium?

We should have the Oxford version available by year end - logistically that will be easier to manage.

Which is good news with the channel sealed to road and rail traffic. Effectively a blockade of the U.K. and Ireland.

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:40 pm

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:27 pm

Druid wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:03 pm

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:24 pm 36000 cases reported today

Need to put everything into getting the vaccination programme sped up.

Isn't our only vaccine supplier manufactured in Belgium?

We should have the Oxford version available by year end - logistically that will be easier to manage.

Which is good news with the channel sealed to road and rail traffic. Effectively a blockade of the U.K. and Ireland.

You can fly vaccines in

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:44 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:40 pm

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:27 pm

Druid wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:03 pm

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:24 pm 36000 cases reported today

Need to put everything into getting the vaccination programme sped up.

Isn't our only vaccine supplier manufactured in Belgium?

We should have the Oxford version available by year end - logistically that will be easier to manage.

Which is good news with the channel sealed to road and rail traffic. Effectively a blockade of the U.K. and Ireland.

You can fly vaccines in

Not the current one I believe? That was driven from Belgium in temperature controlled trucks.

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:57 pm

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:44 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:40 pm

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:27 pm

Druid wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:03 pm

Isn't our only vaccine supplier manufactured in Belgium?

We should have the Oxford version available by year end - logistically that will be easier to manage.

Which is good news with the channel sealed to road and rail traffic. Effectively a blockade of the U.K. and Ireland.

You can fly vaccines in

Not the current one I believe? That was driven from Belgium in temperature controlled trucks.

Well even on the refrigerated containers, they only get the temp so low. Something like -20 but it's the dry ice that gets the temp to -70

I really don’t know the tech details- only what I caught on the news.

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:00 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:57 pm

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:44 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:40 pm

ovalball wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:27 pm

We should have the Oxford version available by year end - logistically that will be easier to manage.

Which is good news with the channel sealed to road and rail traffic. Effectively a blockade of the U.K. and Ireland.

You can fly vaccines in

Not the current one I believe? That was driven from Belgium in temperature controlled trucks.

Well even on the refrigerated containers, they only get the temp so low. Something like -20 but it's the dry ice that gets the temp to -70

Had a google- it says the vaccine can be flown

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:10 pm

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:00 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:57 pm

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:44 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:40 pm

Which is good news with the channel sealed to road and rail traffic. Effectively a blockade of the U.K. and Ireland.

You can fly vaccines in

Not the current one I believe? That was driven from Belgium in temperature controlled trucks.

Well even on the refrigerated containers, they only get the temp so low. Something like -20 but it's the dry ice that gets the temp to -70

Had a google- it says the vaccine can be flown

In business

YOYO wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:56 pm So the new variant was first detected in September. In November it made up around a quarter of cases in London. This reached nearly two-thirds of cases in mid-December.

So why did the British government behave so chaotically? Did they inform the WHO or keep it to themselves? Doing a China on it to try any cover it up?

Considering WHO have reported ont he variant already and how it's ina full european countries, it appears they have not only told WHO but are among the first governments to speak about it to the public.

YOYO wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:35 pm We’re isolated you for the good of mankind.

Anyone seen Bill Bailey and Jeremy Corbyn in the same room together?

YOYO wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:56 pm So the new variant was first detected in September. In November it made up around a quarter of cases in London. This reached nearly two-thirds of cases in mid-December.

So why did the British government behave so chaotically? Did they inform the WHO or keep it to themselves? Doing a China on it to try any cover it up?

There are thousands of known variants worldwide. It is precisely the fact that it has moved from 0.25 to 0.6 of cases in London that has caused the issue. If it hadn't, then it would just be another variant amongst the many. There is no proof that it is more transmissable, but statistically it has obviously raised eyebrows and can't be ignored.

Salanya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:11 pm

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:03 pm

Salanya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:54 pm Chipspike, I know you're a bit of a troll, but your point has nothing to do with my post.

I said that the pandemic is hard to manage for all countries and governments. It's a very successful virus. The point is that the UK government are handling it badly.
As I'm sure you know, many European countries are already in lockdown in response to rising numbers, and their governments have effectively communicated this with their people.

But if you want a response to your point: the UK has the advantage over the likes of Belgium and the Netherlands that is not as densely populated. Obviously the London area is very densely populated, so why it took the government so long to take action is just another example to prove my original point.

The lockdowns are to prevent health services from being overwhelmed, not to eradicate the virus.

I didn't say anything about 'eradicating' the virus, I'm talking about managing the pandemic.

So how do you know better than the government how to do this in the UK?

YOYO wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:10 am

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:07 am

YOYO wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:56 pm So the new variant was first detected in September. In November it made up around a quarter of cases in London. This reached nearly two-thirds of cases in mid-December.

So why did the British government behave so chaotically? Did they inform the WHO or keep it to themselves? Doing a China on it to try any cover it up?

There are thousands of known variants worldwide. It is precisely the fact that it has moved from 0.25 to 0.6 of cases in London that has caused the issue. If it hadn't, then it would just be another variant amongst the many. There is no proof that it is more transmissable, but statistically it has obviously raised eyebrows and can't be ignored.

Yeah I got that point.

From your post, obviously not.

doesn't it make you proud to be British

Breaking: Morocco, El Salvador, Romania, Finland join France, Germany, Italy & a long list of countries banning all travel to/from the UK

Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia has closed its borders to ALL, ending intl travel “due to the #COVID19 mutation found in UK, S Africa & Denmark”

https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/13 ... 3912503299

YOYO wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:41 am

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:16 am

YOYO wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:10 am

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:07 am

YOYO wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:56 pm So the new variant was first detected in September. In November it made up around a quarter of cases in London. This reached nearly two-thirds of cases in mid-December.

So why did the British government behave so chaotically? Did they inform the WHO or keep it to themselves? Doing a China on it to try any cover it up?

There are thousands of known variants worldwide. It is precisely the fact that it has moved from 0.25 to 0.6 of cases in London that has caused the issue. If it hadn't, then it would just be another variant amongst the many. There is no proof that it is more transmissable, but statistically it has obviously raised eyebrows and can't be ignored.

Yeah I got that point.

From your post, obviously not.

Of course you know best about even though you are plainly wrong of the time.

You just said, one post up, tht you got the point ffs

YOYO wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:43 am

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:42 am

YOYO wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:41 am

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:16 am

YOYO wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:10 am
Yeah I got that point.

From your post, obviously not.

Of course you know best about even though you are plainly wrong of the time.

You just said, one post up, tht you got the point ffs

I said that to get you out of my face. Thought you figured that.

So you have no idea what you're talking about, then? Thought so,

You're talking in riddles. You started blarting about government conspiracies and WHO cover-ups FFS.
When pointed out that you're talking bollocks as usual, and you agreed with me, you now think I'm wrong?

Theres reasonable evidence this new version will not be contained by lockdowns and I bet its already spreading through out Europe.

Really its looking like vaccinations are the only answer..

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:10 am Theres reasonable evidence this new version will not be contained by lockdowns and I bet its already spreading through out Europe.

Really its looking like vaccinations are the only answer..

Yep, new variant is probably already widespread in Europe and elsewhere. UK has best genome mapping capabilities so spot these variants more quickly. There have been thousands apparently.

Sefton wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:47 am Given the rate of infection being discussed with this new variant I don’t see how they can open schools in the SE and London in two weeks time, even the suggested mass testing, which is another discussion, won’t stop schools becoming super spreaders in the community.

I agree - a full national lockdown no.3 now seems to be the only way some kind of brake can be put on until the vaccination program has taken effect.

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:10 am Theres reasonable evidence this new version will not be contained by lockdowns and I bet its already spreading through out Europe.

Really its looking like vaccinations are the only answer..

I have not looked at it at all but I am sceptical about the virulent nature of this new version. Only because our government is seeking to use it as an excuse for it's tardiness

Sefton wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:47 am Given the rate of infection being discussed with this new variant I don’t see how they can open schools in the SE and London in two weeks time, even the suggested mass testing, which is another discussion, won’t stop schools becoming super spreaders in the community.

Modelling so take the rate of infection increase just being the variant with a large pinch of salt and part of our governments communication strategy is to scare us after reacting too late. Having been a specialist in a very different subject area with certain useless managers you really have to push them to make the right decision which might mean scaring them. Worth noting that the uk and denmark are the most prolific sequencers in Europe.

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:35 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:10 am Theres reasonable evidence this new version will not be contained by lockdowns and I bet its already spreading through out Europe.

Really its looking like vaccinations are the only answer..

I have not looked at it at all but I am sceptical about the virulent nature of this new version. Only because our government is seeking to use it as an excuse for it's tardiness

I disagree with you and am sceptical of grand conspiracy theories (and whilst its not proven to be more transmittable the evidence from Kent and SE is enough to warrant the current extreme action).

But what is true is that the government has repeatedly blown its credibility which is extremely damaging in a public health crisis.

The new coronavirus variant which has rapidly spread in parts of southern England has an "unusual number of mutations", according to virologist professor Wendy Barclay.

Prof Barclay, head of infectious disease at Imperial College London, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We normally see the viruses differing from one another by one or two changes, but this one has in total 22 all at once.

"That's immediately a sort of a bit of an alarm bell... but biologically it's feasible that the virus could have changed the way it behaves because of those mutations."

She said it was now important to understand whether the vaccines were still effective against the new variant.

Everyone who thought their lives would be back to normal by the end of 2021 needs to have a rethink.

New Guy 2 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:37 am

The new coronavirus variant which has rapidly spread in parts of southern England has an "unusual number of mutations", according to virologist professor Wendy Barclay.

Prof Barclay, head of infectious disease at Imperial College London, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We normally see the viruses differing from one another by one or two changes, but this one has in total 22 all at once.

"That's immediately a sort of a bit of an alarm bell... but biologically it's feasible that the virus could have changed the way it behaves because of those mutations."

She said it was now important to understand whether the vaccines were still effective against the new variant.

Everyone who thought their lives would be back to normal by the end of 2021 needs to have a rethink.

I think you are being a bit previous there mate. My guess is it's almost certain the mutations are so minor that the vaccines will still be effective but having been asked the question the only sensible answer is It's important to understand whether the vaccines were still effective against the new variant

It's like a few weeks ago it was all THE BRITISH ARE MOVING WAY TO FAST WITH THE VACCINES THEY ARE ALL GOING TO DIE

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:53 am

New Guy 2 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:37 am

The new coronavirus variant which has rapidly spread in parts of southern England has an "unusual number of mutations", according to virologist professor Wendy Barclay.

Prof Barclay, head of infectious disease at Imperial College London, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We normally see the viruses differing from one another by one or two changes, but this one has in total 22 all at once.

"That's immediately a sort of a bit of an alarm bell... but biologically it's feasible that the virus could have changed the way it behaves because of those mutations."

She said it was now important to understand whether the vaccines were still effective against the new variant.

Everyone who thought their lives would be back to normal by the end of 2021 needs to have a rethink.

I think you are being a bit previous there mate. My guess is it's almost certain the mutations are so minor that the vaccines will still be effective but having been asked the question the only sensible answer is It's important to understand whether the vaccines were still effective against the new variant

It's like a few weeks ago it was all THE BRITISH ARE MOVING WAY TO FAST WITH THE VACCINES THEY ARE ALL GOING TO DIE

I hope you're right.

Hong Kong wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:46 am hopefully not RR

I can't agree that anti-Vaccers should not get a ventilator if they become ill. I mean hospitals are going to search through phone messages and social media before applying a ventilator now? Though I do agree to keep conspiracy theorists away from decision making processes.

Otherwise we'll start telling obese people, advertisers of fast food, smokers, drug dealers and the like to not receive medical treatment and they self-inflict and pass harm to others. Heck why should Rugby players be treated for injuries because they play a physical game where they get hurt and hurt others. It's a sentiment that could not stop where it is.

There is also a bit of an issue of what makes somebody an anti-vaccer? Letitia Wright was hounded off social media recently for being an Anti-Vaccer. However the video she shared was from a supposed skeptic who admitted they didn't know what is in Vaccinations and asked his followers to pray it does work and cause no harm. Let's be honest, why should the majority of the pupil profess to fully understand how vaccination works.

I have no problem with someone hoping there are no adverse effects from a new vaccine, the medical industry isn't perfect and big Pharma while important hasn't exactly got a perfect ethical record. Sounds fair to me. However some people regard this as anti-vaccination position, I'd regard it as cautiously supportive of a vaccine.

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:53 am

New Guy 2 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:37 am

The new coronavirus variant which has rapidly spread in parts of southern England has an "unusual number of mutations", according to virologist professor Wendy Barclay.

Prof Barclay, head of infectious disease at Imperial College London, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We normally see the viruses differing from one another by one or two changes, but this one has in total 22 all at once.

"That's immediately a sort of a bit of an alarm bell... but biologically it's feasible that the virus could have changed the way it behaves because of those mutations."

She said it was now important to understand whether the vaccines were still effective against the new variant.

Everyone who thought their lives would be back to normal by the end of 2021 needs to have a rethink.

I think you are being a bit previous there mate. My guess is it's almost certain the mutations are so minor that the vaccines will still be effective but having been asked the question the only sensible answer is It's important to understand whether the vaccines were still effective against the new variant

It's like a few weeks ago it was all THE BRITISH ARE MOVING WAY TO FAST WITH THE VACCINES THEY ARE ALL GOING TO DIE

I think that professor is ignoring a few things. I believe the Coronavirus is mutating a bit further due to the fact for organisms to change, it's not just mutation that affects the change but environmental pressures so natural selection (or artificial selection in this case) can direct the evolution of the virus.

WHat has happened with COVID-19 si globally is the virus, which spreads very easily. However with all our actions where we have put in so many measures hostile to the virus, it has also rapidly faced a very hostile environment that isn't eliminating it either. This is putting higher than normal environmental selection pressures on the virus. This encourages any mutated advantage to become more quickly and widely expressed in the population. We haven't taken these measures with other disease. Hence why it was always likely to have more variants expressed in the population then we would normally observe.

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:38 pm Is that our Silver from the bored on twitter?

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:31 pm

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:18 pm Isn't Nate essentially arguing for the UK vaccination priority approach, which clearly has been signed off by a scientist or two over here. He's certainly reaching with the 'actually looked at the evidence' piece, but to a layman the US approach does seem nuts. An absolute mountain of people seem to be in front of the elderly in the queue when it comes to vaccination.

Time to take up smoking if you're a yank?

Seems about right really. Healthcare workers and teachers a priority, the nhs has shitloads off work isolating and where schools are closed. No point jabbing the fossils if there’s nobody to care for them or feed them.

It's the idea that smoking is a 'high risk medical condition' that caught my eye. Prioritised above residential care facilities?

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:17 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:38 pm Is that our Silver from the bored on twitter? :uhoh:

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:31 pm

Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:18 pm Isn't Nate essentially arguing for the UK vaccination priority approach, which clearly has been signed off by a scientist or two over here. He's certainly reaching with the 'actually looked at the evidence' piece, but to a layman the US approach does seem nuts. An absolute mountain of people seem to be in front of the elderly in the queue when it comes to vaccination.

Time to take up smoking if you're a yank?

Seems about right really. Healthcare workers and teachers a priority, the nhs has shitloads off work isolating and where schools are closed. No point jabbing the fossils if there’s nobody to care for them or feed them.

It's the idea that smoking is a 'high risk medical condition' that caught my eye. Prioritised above residential care facilities?

And the fatties.