Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DragsterDriver
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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not_english wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:00 pm The thing that worries me about how they are dealing with Coronavirus at the moment is that it seems rather dependent on the vaccine eradicating the virus. I wonder if anyone has given any thought as to what to do if this doesn't happen.
The vunerable and elderly go under the bus. That’s a sad reality, if the vaccine doesn’t work a line will have to be drawn somewhere. Lucky we have mass murderers in government to make that difficult decision.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:04 pm
not_english wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:00 pm The thing that worries me about how they are dealing with Coronavirus at the moment is that it seems rather dependent on the vaccine eradicating the virus. I wonder if anyone has given any thought as to what to do if this doesn't happen.
We won't be able to eradicate this virus. It will become like flu. We will need vaccines on an ongoing (yearly) basis to live with it
Well I hope someone is making preparations for the manufacture and distribution of next years vaccine now then.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:05 pm Interesting:
French pharmaceutical company Sanofi will help produce at least 100 million Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine doses
Sanofi is set to help Pfizer and BioNTech meet demand by helping to supply more than 100 million doses of the vaccine. The French company said it will fill and pack millions of doses of the COVID-19 vaccine from July 2021 at its plant in Frankfurt, Germany. The company says it will also continue the development of its own vaccine.
From July? They’re pulling all the stops out then.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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ovalball wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:28 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:22 pm
Sefton wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:57 am The Conservatives have been in power for 16 years now, if public services were not in any condition to handle this epidemic then that is the government’s responsibility.
It’s the way it is. If there were stockpiles of ppe being unused incase of a pandemic Angela Raynor would have been screeching in Parliament about millions wasted that could have fed the children of teenage mums.

Going forward we’ve had a pandemic, preparation will Be better, I’d hope politicians won’t use that sort of thing as a football.

The nhs is well funded, but it’s a bloated sacred monster that nobody wants to tackle. Nobody.
Ah - so, it's Angela Raynor's fault :lol: :lol:
Yes, that’s a brilliant take. *slow hand clap*
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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not_english wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:09 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:04 pm
not_english wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:00 pm The thing that worries me about how they are dealing with Coronavirus at the moment is that it seems rather dependent on the vaccine eradicating the virus. I wonder if anyone has given any thought as to what to do if this doesn't happen.
We won't be able to eradicate this virus. It will become like flu. We will need vaccines on an ongoing (yearly) basis to live with it
Well I hope someone is making preparations for the manufacture and distribution of next years vaccine now then.
I've no doubt. Moderna for a start are already making vaccines for the variants. This is the new normal. Pharma will be making vaccines for the next few years until we get most of the world immunised
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:09 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:05 pm Interesting:
French pharmaceutical company Sanofi will help produce at least 100 million Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine doses
Sanofi is set to help Pfizer and BioNTech meet demand by helping to supply more than 100 million doses of the vaccine. The French company said it will fill and pack millions of doses of the COVID-19 vaccine from July 2021 at its plant in Frankfurt, Germany. The company says it will also continue the development of its own vaccine.
From July? They’re pulling all the stops out then.
Who knows the reasons for delay. It's incremental gain though
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:12 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:09 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:05 pm Interesting:
French pharmaceutical company Sanofi will help produce at least 100 million Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine doses
Sanofi is set to help Pfizer and BioNTech meet demand by helping to supply more than 100 million doses of the vaccine. The French company said it will fill and pack millions of doses of the COVID-19 vaccine from July 2021 at its plant in Frankfurt, Germany. The company says it will also continue the development of its own vaccine.
From July? They’re pulling all the stops out then.
Who knows the reasons for delay. It's incremental gain though
They were one of the companies we were banking on I believe? Sounds like they’ve made a bollox of it all if the vaccine failed and they couldn’t produce it anyway?

(Flexing all my pharmaceutical knowledge)
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:10 pm
I've no doubt. Moderna for a start are already making vaccines for the variants. This is the new normal. Pharma will be making vaccines for the next few years until we get most of the world immunised
It's the distribution logistics as well though. My kids can get the flu vaccine administered at school. We should really just be able to go to the local GP or pharmacy to get a jab if they want to do it to a high proportion of the population.

I think this is doable personally, but only if the appropriate planning is put in place. Storage pf the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is obviously a problem, not to mention cost.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Nice to see all of the "plaudits" to the UK coming from Die Zeit today.

Predictably though, here in the UK it's "f8cking Tories"
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:15 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:12 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:09 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:05 pm Interesting:
French pharmaceutical company Sanofi will help produce at least 100 million Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine doses
Sanofi is set to help Pfizer and BioNTech meet demand by helping to supply more than 100 million doses of the vaccine. The French company said it will fill and pack millions of doses of the COVID-19 vaccine from July 2021 at its plant in Frankfurt, Germany. The company says it will also continue the development of its own vaccine.
From July? They’re pulling all the stops out then.
Who knows the reasons for delay. It's incremental gain though
They were one of the companies we were banking on I believe? Sounds like they’ve made a bollox of it all if the vaccine failed and they couldn’t produce it anyway?

(Flexing all my pharmaceutical knowledge)
No their vaccine is ready end of year. Their initial trials showed poor efficacy so they started again.

The J&J one is the one we're here holding out on. 1 shot vaccine and trials show over 90% efficacy. It will be approved in February and here in March. I would imagine April- May-June will see a mass ramp up in speed
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:18 pm Nice to see all of the "plaudits" to the UK coming from Die Zeit today.

Predictably though, here in the UK it's "f8cking Tories"
What did they say?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Some good news about the countries who take the option to stretch out the 1st and 2nd doses with the AstraZeneca vaccine, they have data that it does work and may even provide stronger immunity.

Oxford coronavirus vaccine 100% effective with three-month gap - Astra Zeneca
The chief executive of the firm that makes the vaccine said one dose gave full protection from hospitalisation or severe infection - and the second dose was needed for longer-term protection

ByWill HaywardPolitical editor
11:38, 27 JAN 2021

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The boss of the pharmaceutical firm Astra Zeneca making the Oxford vaccine has said that having a three month gaps between jabs "is absolutely the right way to go".

The independent scientific body, the JCVI, that advises the governments in the UK has recommeded a 12 week gap between first and second doses of the vaccines in the UK.

Other countries are still following a programme with a three-to-four week gap between doses and the UK's decision to use a different regime has raised concerns.

The manufacturer of one of the other vaccines, the Pfizer vaccine, said that it only assessed its vaccine on a two-dose regimen where people were given the jab three weeks apart, and there was “no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days”.

However speaking to La Repubblica, the CEO of AstraZeneca Pascal Soriot endorsed the three-month plan with regard to the Oxford vaccine. He said the first dose alone gave 100% protection against severe disease and hospitalisation. He said the second dose was only needed to give longer-term protection.

"I think the UK one-dose strategy is absolutely the right way to go, at least for our vaccine," he said.

"I cannot comment about the Pfizer vaccine, whose studies are for a three-week interval. In our case, the trial we're talking about was conducted by Oxford University.

"We AZ are conducting the US trial, which we think is going to be ready very soon. Oxford University conducted the so-called Oxford trial in UK and Brazil, and we have data for patients who received the vaccine in one-month interval, 2 or 3 months interval."

He added that taking the dose later would actually offer better long term protection.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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eldanielfire wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:23 pm
DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:18 pm Nice to see all of the "plaudits" to the UK coming from Die Zeit today.

Predictably though, here in the UK it's "f8cking Tories"
What did they say?
That we basically had our shit together and it's the best case for Brexit.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

bimboman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:02 pm
ovalball wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:43 am
bimboman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:35 am
DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:15 am
Most of my extended family went into voluntary lockdown 2 weeks before Boris took action.
That's lovely. Most families had to keep working for as long possible.

It’s an obscene post . But very typical of the British middle classes who think sacrifice is sitting at home while a working class person brings them things.
Do you ever stop being a total arse. The people bringing us things were the younger members of our family - some of whom also volunteered to be community helpers to assist others in need.

And, whilst there's nothing wrong with being Middle Class, ours is mostly a Working Class family - several of whom work in the NHS.


“Most of my extended family” , jeez
Well, they are all in lockdown now - but as you must know, Lockdown doesn't mean that most of them aren't still working. Those that could, started working from home before the 1st lockdown was announced.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:18 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:15 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:12 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:09 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:05 pm Interesting:

From July? They’re pulling all the stops out then.
Who knows the reasons for delay. It's incremental gain though
They were one of the companies we were banking on I believe? Sounds like they’ve made a bollox of it all if the vaccine failed and they couldn’t produce it anyway?

(Flexing all my pharmaceutical knowledge)
No their vaccine is ready end of year. Their initial trials showed poor efficacy so they started again.

The J&J one is the one we're here holding out on. 1 shot vaccine and trials show over 90% efficacy. It will be approved in February and here in March. I would imagine April- May-June will see a mass ramp up in speed
It would be a fitting footnote if the yanks galloped in and saved the day.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:31 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:23 pm
DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:18 pm Nice to see all of the "plaudits" to the UK coming from Die Zeit today.

Predictably though, here in the UK it's "f8cking Tories"
What did they say?
That we basically had our shit together and it's the best case for Brexit.
Link?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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The Twittter says AZ have cancelled their meeting today with the EU.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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You have to asked yourself how a hated (by the Germans) and failed third rate politician ended up leading the EU.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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If the first jab works for 3 months, we can vaccinate more with 1st shipment. Might not be as bad as initially feared
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:41 pm The Twittter says AZ have cancelled their meeting today with the EU.
They are saying they'll make their responses in writing rather than at a meeting.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:43 pm You have to asked yourself how a hated (by the Germans) and failed third rate politician ended up leading the EU.
Close to Macron
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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AstraZeneca now saying they have NOT pulled out of meeting
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:43 pm You have to asked yourself how a hated (by the Germans) and failed third rate politician ended up leading the EU.
Parliament vs. Commission spat on who should run it. Parliament refused their heeded advice that the Commission would not consider anyone with no executive experience, and the EPP group nominated lifelong parliamentarian Manfred Weber anyway.

Can't blame the Commission. I agree with them.
Last edited by Flyin Ryan on Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:43 pm You have to asked yourself how a hated (by the Germans) and failed third rate politician ended up leading the EU.
She wasn't the pick of the EU parliament thats for sure.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Sounds a rocky course between Eu and AZ.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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AstraZeneca has reportedly denied pulling out of a meeting with the EU to discuss Covid-19 vaccine supplies.

Reports emerged on Wednesday morning suggesting that the firm had scrapped plans to attend the talks, allegations it later denied.

It comes amid an escalating row between the EU Commission and the pharmaceutical giant, who on Tuesday confirmed that the UK would have the first claim on vaccines produced here.

AZ's chief executive Pascal Soriot said that glitches in EU supply were the result of Brussels taking three months longer than London to seal a deal.

He told the Italian newspaper Republica that problems in "scaling up" vaccine production had hit two plants: one in the Netherlands and one in Belgium.

"It's complicated, especially in the early phase where you have to really sort out all sorts of issues," he said.

"We believe we've sorted out those issues, but we are basically two months behind where we wanted to be."

Mr Soriot added: "We've also had teething issues like this in the UK supply chain. But the UK contract was signed three months before the European vaccine deal. So with the UK, we have had an extra three months to fix all the glitches we experienced.


"Would I like to do better? Of course. But, you know, if we deliver in February what we are planning to deliver, it's not a small volume. We are planning to deliver millions of doses to Europe, it is not small."

In retaliation, Brussels has threatened to impose export controls on vaccines produced within the 27-nation bloc after the Anglo-Swedish multinational – which was due to deliver 80 million doses to the EU by the end of March – suddenly said it was cutting supplies by as much as 60 per cent.

European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen on Tuesday night said AstraZeneca must "honour their obligations".

Addressing a virtual session of the World Economic Forum, she said: “Europe invested billions to help develop the world's first Covid-19 vaccines. And now, the companies must deliver.”
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Thanks for the link. I imagine it's incredibly frustrating for Germans in particular given their pedigree in pharmaceuticals - and their history with VDL.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Gospel wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:55 pm
Thanks for the link. I imagine it's incredibly frustrating for Germans in particular given their pedigree in pharmaceuticals - and their history with VDL.
..and for the fact people are dying, they've every right to be furious. They're German though, no doubt they'll catch up very soon.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:53 pm
DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:43 pm You have to asked yourself how a hated (by the Germans) and failed third rate politician ended up leading the EU.
Parliament vs. Commission spat on who should run it. Parliament refused their heeded advice that the Commission would not consider anyone with no executive experience, and the EPP group nominated lifelong parliamentarian Manfred Weber anyway.

Can't blame the Commission. I agree with them.
I wonder if the Parliaments haste to be politically correct and vote for a women rather than someone more qualified and experienced for the job is now biting them on the arse.

https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula- ... ent-truth/
The Bundestag, the German parliament, is currently holding hearings into the affair, including accusations that von der Leyen’s office circumvented public procurement rules in granting contracts worth millions of euros to the firms. Those hearings have taken a dramatic turn in recent days as testimony from key witnesses appeared to confirm suspicions of systematic corruption at the ministry.
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ovalball wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:44 pm
C69 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:35 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:15 pm
C69 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:59 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:34 am

I actually think the government have taken the rap for quite a few failures not of their doing rather than point the finger.
For me some of the failures seem quite clear.
PHE has been shite and our Public Health System poor and levels of diabetes and obesity didn't help either, we would cringe every Friday evening when at the stary of the pandemic new advice came out after 5pm on a Friday.
Often we would have to change operational matters from what we were doing a few hours earlier.

Arguably the government were promoting a herd immunity strategy. This changed in late March. Prof Fegusson argues the delay at that time in lock down cost 20000 lives.

The management in Care homes and lack of PPE everywhere was a shambles compounded by Hancock saying there were no problems.
Track and Trace was a joke billions and billions of pounds joke.
Borders, well there is another story, wholly mismanaged and wholly inept.

Now they are bringing in quarantin, too litte too late.
They’ve been as shit as everywhere else in an unexpected pandemic. My point was if they were playing politics they could have pointed the finger and sacrificed plenty of underlings. They’ve put very few people under the bus and the inquiry will probably lay it all bare at some point. Track and trace failed everywhere but they had to throw money at it to appease people.
Your last line is patently rubbish.
Tories throwing money at everything doesn't work especially when ot lands in the laps of the chumocracy.
The public want effective responses that are well reasoned and planned. Not money thrown willy nilly.
Reading of some the schemes highlighted by the NAO where money is pissed away for no sane reason is a joke. Track and trace is an excellent example where loads of people said Serco et al werw not fit to run it and local solutions should have been instigated.
And no this is not hindsight from day 1 it was pointed out Serco and others were not able to deliver.
Contrast that snafu with the vaccination organisation with local and national NHS organisations delivering.
T&T was the central plank in the Government's strategy to mitigate against the 2nd Wave. It has been an World Class disaster of epic incompetence.
It was killed in an hour by labour calling for an investigation into data security. Dead in the water from that point. My daughter still refuses to use it because of the words tracking and tracing.
If the devolved regions have something wonderful working perfectly, then fine.
The idiocy was to carry on once they knew it was dead.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:43 pm You have to asked yourself how a hated (by the Germans) and failed third rate politician ended up leading the EU.
She could ask Europeans to poke their deltoids with cocktail sticks whilst shouting "jab"
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ovalball wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:32 pm
bimboman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:02 pm
ovalball wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:43 am
bimboman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:35 am
DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:15 am

That's lovely. Most families had to keep working for as long possible.

It’s an obscene post . But very typical of the British middle classes who think sacrifice is sitting at home while a working class person brings them things.
Do you ever stop being a total arse. The people bringing us things were the younger members of our family - some of whom also volunteered to be community helpers to assist others in need.

And, whilst there's nothing wrong with being Middle Class, ours is mostly a Working Class family - several of whom work in the NHS.


“Most of my extended family” , jeez
Well, they are all in lockdown now - but as you must know, Lockdown doesn't mean that most of them aren't still working. Those that could, started working from home before the 1st lockdown was announced.


As I said middle class version of sacrifice. I’m amazed they had the foresight to work from home in the week between the serious warnings and the law changes.

Most people of course wouldn’t have been allowed such a luxury.

It’s facile.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Gospel »

bimboman wrote:Most people of course wouldn’t have been allowed such a luxury.
This is of course very much the story of COVID and the disparity in deaths amongst the working population. Blue collar workers have kept the country running and dying from increased exposure as a result.
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Post by DAC_ »

Gospel wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:18 pm
bimboman wrote:Most people of course wouldn’t have been allowed such a luxury.
This is of course very much the story of COVID and the disparity in deaths amongst the working population. Blue collar workers have kept the country running and dying from increased exposure as a result.
Yep, I tested positive on 14th December and whilst I was lucky, it scared the total shit out of me.
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iarmhiman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:44 pm If the first jab works for 3 months, we can vaccinate more with 1st shipment. Might not be as bad as initially feared
IIRC they had figures for the AZ vaccine from the first trial saying the longer you waited for the 2nd jab, the more effective it was which is a large part of why the decision to jab everybody in the UK ASAP was taken. There's more uncertainty with the Pfizer jab as that wasn't tested to the same degree.
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Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:53 pm
DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:43 pm You have to asked yourself how a hated (by the Germans) and failed third rate politician ended up leading the EU.
Parliament vs. Commission spat on who should run it. Parliament refused their heeded advice that the Commission would not consider anyone with no executive experience, and the EPP group nominated lifelong parliamentarian Manfred Weber anyway.

Can't blame the Commission. I agree with them.
It's funny how someone with a history of plagiarism, possible corruption and incompetence can ascend to the job because she has a nice manner. I believe part of the issue was there was some diversity agreement that the next President should be a women. However surely there must have been someone with a better CV? I mean her own party celebrated her leaving German politics. How bad was she?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

bimboman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:11 pm
ovalball wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:32 pm
bimboman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:02 pm
ovalball wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:43 am
bimboman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:35 am


It’s an obscene post . But very typical of the British middle classes who think sacrifice is sitting at home while a working class person brings them things.
Do you ever stop being a total arse. The people bringing us things were the younger members of our family - some of whom also volunteered to be community helpers to assist others in need.

And, whilst there's nothing wrong with being Middle Class, ours is mostly a Working Class family - several of whom work in the NHS.


“Most of my extended family” , jeez
Well, they are all in lockdown now - but as you must know, Lockdown doesn't mean that most of them aren't still working. Those that could, started working from home before the 1st lockdown was announced.


As I said middle class version of sacrifice. I’m amazed they had the foresight to work from home in the week between the serious warnings and the law changes.

Most people of course wouldn’t have been allowed such a luxury.

It’s facile.
You'd have had to be living in a cave to not have seen the serious warnings well before the UK Government acted - We'd seen what was going on in Italy, Big public events were being cancelled and lots of firms were making arrangements for people to home work. My son had never been busier helping his customers set up IT systems for remote working.

But yes, some people have jobs that cannot be done from home - does that mean those that can should feel guilty.

My family have been extremely fortunate - until recently we'd not had anyone catch the virus. But now one of my nephews, and his wife, have it - and they are not doing too well.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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eldanielfire wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:42 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:53 pm
DAC_ wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:43 pm You have to asked yourself how a hated (by the Germans) and failed third rate politician ended up leading the EU.
Parliament vs. Commission spat on who should run it. Parliament refused their heeded advice that the Commission would not consider anyone with no executive experience, and the EPP group nominated lifelong parliamentarian Manfred Weber anyway.

Can't blame the Commission. I agree with them.
It's funny how someone with a history of plagiarism, possible corruption and incompetence can ascend to the job because she has a nice manner. I believe part of the issue was there was some diversity agreement that the next President should be a women. However surely there must have been someone with a better CV? I mean her own party celebrated her leaving German politics. How bad was she?
Her father was a bigwig in the EU. Cronyism.
ovalball
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: China virus cases triple as infection spreads

Post by ovalball »

A year ago today
Sandstorm wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:05 am It’s almost a week since the Bimbot last commented on this thread. Have we finally found something he’s not an expert in?? :shock:
You had to open your big mouth, didn't you :shock:
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