Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

[bimboman]

Do you ever stop being a total arse. The people bringing us things were the younger members of our family - some of whom also volunteered to be community helpers to assist others in need.

And, whilst there's nothing wrong with being Middle Class, ours is mostly a Working Class family - several of whom work in the NHS.

“Most of my extended family” , jeez

Well, they are all in lockdown now - but as you must know, Lockdown doesn't mean that most of them aren't still working. Those that could, started working from home before the 1st lockdown was announced.

As I said middle class version of sacrifice. I’m amazed they had the foresight to work from home in the week between the serious warnings and the law changes.

Most people of course wouldn’t have been allowed such a luxury.

It’s facile.

You'd have had to be living in a cave to not have seen the serious warnings well before the UK Government acted - We'd seen what was going on in Italy, Big public events were being cancelled and lots of firms were making arrangements for people to home work. My son had never been busier helping his customers set up IT systems for remote working.

But yes, some people have jobs that cannot be done from home - does that mean those that can should feel guilty.

My family have been extremely fortunate - until recently we'd not had anyone catch the virus. But now one of my nephews, and his wife, have it - and they are not doing too well.

Yeah, I don’t believe you. We were told to isolate on the 17th of March , Liverpool played in front of a full house on March the 11th, no one in Feb was isolating or setting up “home work stations” before that Italy confirmed its first 2 deaths on Feb 22nd.

Good for you and that amazing foresight though.

[shereblue]

You have to asked yourself how a hated (by the Germans) and failed third rate politician ended up leading the EU.

Parliament vs. Commission spat on who should run it. Parliament refused their heeded advice that the Commission would not consider anyone with no executive experience, and the EPP group nominated lifelong parliamentarian Manfred Weber anyway.

Can't blame the Commission. I agree with them.

It's funny how someone with a history of plagiarism, possible corruption and incompetence can ascend to the job because she has a nice manner. I believe part of the issue was there was some diversity agreement that the next President should be a women. However surely there must have been someone with a better CV? I mean her own party celebrated her leaving German politics. How bad was she?

Her father was a bigwig in the EU. Cronyism.

They have it on the Continent too? Fascinating.

[DAC_]

I see the Hungarian's have approved the Russian vaccine.

Which is interesting.

[message #2527204]

I see the Hungarian's have approved the Russian vaccine.

Which is interesting.

WAs mentioned a few weeks ago that they were going for sputnik rather than wait. Thought that might cause a free for all for the rest.

[DAC_]

I see the Hungarian's have approved the Russian vaccine.

Which is interesting.

WAs mentioned a few weeks ago that they were going for sputnik rather than wait. Thought that might cause a free for all for the rest.

Surely some heads have to roll in the inner sanctum of the EU?

[shereblue]

“Most of my extended family” , jeez

Well, they are all in lockdown now - but as you must know, Lockdown doesn't mean that most of them aren't still working. Those that could, started working from home before the 1st lockdown was announced.

As I said middle class version of sacrifice. I’m amazed they had the foresight to work from home in the week between the serious warnings and the law changes.

Most people of course wouldn’t have been allowed such a luxury.

It’s facile.

You'd have had to be living in a cave to not have seen the serious warnings well before the UK Government acted - We'd seen what was going on in Italy, Big public events were being cancelled and lots of firms were making arrangements for people to home work. My son had never been busier helping his customers set up IT systems for remote working.

But yes, some people have jobs that cannot be done from home - does that mean those that can should feel guilty.

My family have been extremely fortunate - until recently we'd not had anyone catch the virus. But now one of my nephews, and his wife, have it - and they are not doing too well.

Yeah, I don’t believe you. We were told to isolate on the 17th of March , Liverpool played in front of a full house on March the 11th, no one in Feb was isolating or setting up “home work stations” before that Italy confirmed its first 2 deaths on Feb 22nd.

Good for you and that amazing foresight though.

Serie A matches were being "postponed" at the end of Feb and PSG v Dortmund was being played behind closed doors on the night of the packed Anfield encounter.

[DAC_]

I love the BBC coverage of EU Vacgate:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55822602

[Mick Mannock]

This thread has taken a turn.

Has there been some broadband failure in Ireland?

[bimboman]

Thanks for proving my point Sherblue.

[C69]

A year ago today

It’s almost a week since the Bimbot last commented on this thread. Have we finally found something he’s not an expert in??

You had to open your big mouth, didn't you

Sandy you are an unmitigated plum

[Flyin Ryan]

I see the Hungarian's have approved the Russian vaccine.

Which is interesting.

Iranians did too, although there's no EU angle there. Frankly, the more should be the merrier unless your sole concern is to be able to control everything.

[Gospel]

Has there been any independent analysis of the Russian vaccine? Any published reports from reputable sources?

[DragsterDriver]

https://twitter.com/sam1fleming/status/ ... 62912?s=21

EU believes contract with AstraZeneca entitles it to vaccines produced at its UK plants, not just the EU ones, officials say. So if there are production shortfalls in an EU plant then AZN should tap the other plants. This could get very politically difficult between EU and UK

So the Eu ordered late and now want to hijack the U.K. vaccines. In principal I agree we all need vaccinating together, but in the same breath I’d like a light shone on what shitcünts the Eu are

[eldanielfire]

I see the Hungarian's have approved the Russian vaccine.

Which is interesting.

Iranians did too.

I suppose the Hungary situation is more of interest, partly because they are the EU bad boys and are obviously stepping away from the EU centralized coordination of the vaccination project.

Of course with 2 (or more) countries approving the Russian Vaccine, I wonder if we were somewhat too cynical to have dismissed them as news first came out about it given it was the first ever approved one last September. The rest were approved 3 or 4 months later. Was it wrong to not trust the news that Russia had developed the vaccine well before anyone else?

[bimboman]

https://twitter.com/sam1fleming/status/ ... 62912?s=21

EU believes contract with AstraZeneca entitles it to vaccines produced at its UK plants, not just the EU ones, officials say. So if there are production shortfalls in an EU plant then AZN should tap the other plants. This could get very politically difficult between EU and UK

So the Eu ordered late and now want to hijack the U.K. vaccines. In principal I agree we all need vaccinating together, but in the same breath I’d like a light shone on what shitcünts the Eu are

This is all aimed at trying to make the UK object and become the “bad guy” , the UK contract specifically had British production for British supply, the EU didn’t.

It’s all Spain now.

[DAC_]

I see the Hungarian's have approved the Russian vaccine.

Which is interesting.

Iranians did too, although there's no EU angle there. Frankly, the more should be the merrier unless your sole concern is to be able to control everything.

What?

[Flyin Ryan]

https://twitter.com/sam1fleming/status/ ... 62912?s=21

EU believes contract with AstraZeneca entitles it to vaccines produced at its UK plants, not just the EU ones, officials say. So if there are production shortfalls in an EU plant then AZN should tap the other plants. This could get very politically difficult between EU and UK

So the Eu ordered late and now want to hijack the U.K. vaccines. In principal I agree we all need vaccinating together, but in the same breath I’d like a light shone on what shitcünts the Eu are

If the UK contract is being met at 100% with no excess capacity, then the EU have no case outside of idle threats to ask a company to break a contract with a separate governmental entity. If there's excess, that should be good unless the UK are using everything that gets produced immediately (I imagine they are, should be in contract) or it is in their contract say no UK-manufactured vaccines can leave their borders unless UK government approval or whatever (it's in the UK's interest for an economic reason to export vaccines once they reach a good spot health-wise). It also depends on whether the EU say their vaccines should only be manufactured in the EU, which the EU is saying but I can't imagine that'd be a contractual term anyway because it'd be in the EU's interest to have AstraZeneca vaccines come from anywhere in the event of production problems like they have now.

[Flyin Ryan]

Has there been any independent analysis of the Russian vaccine? Any published reports from reputable sources?

We'll know in the end if it works based on what happens. If a country buys a vaccine en masse and it fails, they're going to have buy the vaccine for their population twice. Not cheap. Some very high up politicians' careers would be over.

[DragsterDriver]

https://twitter.com/sam1fleming/status/ ... 62912?s=21

EU believes contract with AstraZeneca entitles it to vaccines produced at its UK plants, not just the EU ones, officials say. So if there are production shortfalls in an EU plant then AZN should tap the other plants. This could get very politically difficult between EU and UK

So the Eu ordered late and now want to hijack the U.K. vaccines. In principal I agree we all need vaccinating together, but in the same breath I’d like a light shone on what shitcünts the Eu are

If the UK contract is being met at 100% with no excess capacity, then the EU have no case outside of idle threats to ask a company to break a contract with a separate governmental entity. If there's excess, that should be good unless the UK in their contract say no UK-manufactured vaccines can leave their borders unless UK government approval or whatever (it's in the UK's interest for an economic reason to export vaccines once they reach a good spot health-wise). It also depends on whether the EU say their vaccines should only be manufactured in the EU, which the EU is saying but I can't imagine that'd be a contractual term anyway because it'd be in the EU's interest to have AstraZeneca vaccines come from anywhere in the event of production problems like they have now.

Well yes, if we didn’t want to use our excess to vaccinate more of our citizens help the Eu out.

But that’s not what they want, they’re angling to take them by force at threat to AZ and paint the U.K. as the bad guy.

It’s not a request, it’s gangsterism.

Commissioner says: No company shd be under any illusion that we don't have the means to understand what is happening, so we ask all companies to be as transparent as possible with information, production of the doses, where they have been sent etc

Forcing disclosure of the uks contract.

[Gospel]

Has there been any independent analysis of the Russian vaccine? Any published reports from reputable sources?

We'll know in the end if it works based on what happens. If a country buys a vaccine en masse and it fails, they're going to have buy the vaccine for their population twice. Not cheap. Some very high up politicians' careers would be over.

Well yes of course we will know in the fulness of time. I am simply enquiring as to the efficacy of the Russian vaccine with regards to any analysis done by a well renowned independent authority. This is a global fight and if the Russians have something that is effective more power to them.

[DragsterDriver]

I’d rather try covid than Sputnik.

[Gospel]

But that’s not what they want, they’re angling to take them by force at threat to AZ and paint the U.K. as the bad guy.

That sort of stuff plays well in the European Street. A French colleague was told recently by her doctor that he believes COVID is a joint Chinese / England operation; the former release the virus, the latter sell the cure. I asked her if she believed such errant nonsense and she said "who knows what really happened."

[bimboman]

So today we have an example of the avoidance of Parliament by the government , lock down was announced (post the closure of parliament) till the 15th Feb. A vote would be required on the 15th for any extension , today Boris bold as brass that they’ll be no softening until the 8th March (three more weeks), they’ll spell out the “roadmap” in the next few weeks about the 8th of March onwards dangling this as the carrot to ensure fewer Tory rebels on the 15th Feb.



So think on this, UK school will be closed for 9 weeks on the say so of 1/2 dozen people and no , none, zip democratic representation.

[Flyin Ryan]

Well yes, if we didn’t want to use our excess to vaccinate more of our citizens help the Eu out.

But that’s not what they want, they’re angling to take them by force at threat to AZ and paint the U.K. as the bad guy.

It’s not a request, it’s gangsterism.

Well, welcome to government.

I altered my post slightly to point out the UK could be using all excess immediately, which makes sense in this context, but also that if that's the case, it's probably in the contract. And again, the EU have no case to ask a private company to break a contract with a separate governmental entity.

Commissioner says: No company shd be under any illusion that we don't have the means to understand what is happening, so we ask all companies to be as transparent as possible with information, production of the doses, where they have been sent etc

Forcing disclosure of the uks contract.

Being anti-UK and making a plausible case it's the bad guy is probably a popular thing inside most of the EU. It also allows EU leadership an easy scapegoat to escape their own culpability. (Americans walk across the Atlantic and gives British citizens a hug while the Middle East, Far East, Eastern Europe, Africa, Latin America, etc. all nod.)

[DAC_]

It also allows EU leadership an easy scapegoat to escape their own culpability.

No chance of that now the German media has just called them out in quite a large way.

[Gospel]

It also allows EU leadership an easy scapegoat to escape their own culpability.

No chance of that now the German EU has just called them out in quite a large way.

Whilst the Italians think it's a UK stitch-up.

[feckwanker]

I see the Hungarian's have approved the Russian vaccine.

Which is interesting.

WAs mentioned a few weeks ago that they were going for sputnik rather than wait. Thought that might cause a free for all for the rest.

Surely some heads have to roll in the inner sanctum of the EU?

For a guy who hates the EU and the Irish in particular, you sure spend a lot of time researching them and posting about them on a daily basis.

[Flyin Ryan]

It also allows EU leadership an easy scapegoat to escape their own culpability.

No chance of that now the German EU has just called them out in quite a large way.

Whilst the Italians think it's a UK stitch-up.

So if the EU fall on their sword, who's getting forced to resign in EU government? Does the Parliament have a vote of confidence measure available to them?

[Duff Paddy]

https://twitter.com/sam1fleming/status/ ... 62912?s=21

EU believes contract with AstraZeneca entitles it to vaccines produced at its UK plants, not just the EU ones, officials say. So if there are production shortfalls in an EU plant then AZN should tap the other plants. This could get very politically difficult between EU and UK

So the Eu ordered late and now want to hijack the U.K. vaccines. In principal I agree we all need vaccinating together, but in the same breath I’d like a light shone on what shitcünts the Eu are

This is all aimed at trying to make the UK object and become the “bad guy” , the UK contract specifically had British production for British supply, the EU didn’t.

It’s all Spain now.

Where did you see the contents of the two contracts?

[DAC_]

I see the Hungarian's have approved the Russian vaccine.

Which is interesting.

WAs mentioned a few weeks ago that they were going for sputnik rather than wait. Thought that might cause a free for all for the rest.

Surely some heads have to roll in the inner sanctum of the EU?

For a guy who hates the EU and the Irish in particular, you sure spend a lot of time researching them and posting about them on a daily basis.

If you hate something surely you'd take more of an interest than something you didn't care about?

I don't hate the Irish, I just dislike you, like you do us.

[Gospel]

So if the EU fall on their sword, who's getting forced to resign in EU government? Does the Parliament have a vote of confidence measure available to them?

That's not how the EU works. They never admit to any wrong doing. There is never any acknowledgement of culpability because they can say they were acting on behalf of the 27 members. You cannot hit a moving target.

[DAC_]

It also allows EU leadership an easy scapegoat to escape their own culpability.

No chance of that now the German EU has just called them out in quite a large way.

Whilst the Italians think it's a UK stitch-up.

So if the EU fall on their sword, who's getting forced to resign in EU government? Does the Parliament have a vote of confidence measure available to them?

The whole political set up has never been tested like this before, it will be interesting to note what will happen. One thing is a sure as shit, the Commission don't really give two shits what the parliament think.

[C69]

Has there been any independent analysis of the Russian vaccine? Any published reports from reputable sources?

Given that there is cooperation from Az Oxford and the Sputnick team I suspect there is a bit of analysis.
There should be info out there related to combining the Russian and Oxford vaccines and the impending clinical investigation of the combined vaccine.
On my phone atm but iirc it's pretty far down the line and almost ready to move forward.

[Lemoentjie]

Have the EU lost their minds?

Seems like the spirit of Trump lives on, even if the giant satsuma isn't in office

[Flyin Ryan]

Wikipedia:

The European Parliament can dismiss the European Commission, the executive body of the European Union, through a successful motion of no confidence. Such a motion requires a two-thirds vote. A successful vote on the motion leads to the resignation of the commission.[9]

Like with Trump and the Senate, you can get a majority but you're not getting two-thirds. Although if such a vote were to happen and had a majority, it'd be damning in a different sense and may force a resignation or two. The EU narrowly dodged a constitutional crisis of sorts when von der Leyen was approved because she was only a handful of votes above the threshold and was less than her public statements of approval voting for her. It's thought the Socialists & Democrats super-party had some of its members walk away from the Grand Coalition under what is a private vote but publicly stood behind her.

Any Europhiles remember the Santer Commission scandal and its mass resignation? This is not really scandal, it's move governmental failure making the wrong decisions in a major existential crisis. (A Neville Chamberlain moment.)

[terryfinch]

So if the EU fall on their sword, who's getting forced to resign in EU government? Does the Parliament have a vote of confidence measure available to them?

That's not how the EU works. They never admit to any wrong doing. There is never any acknowledgement of culpability because they can say they were acting on behalf of the 27 members. You cannot hit a moving target.

They do appear to be panicking. Blaming AZ who have performed miracles to develop the vaccine, are producing at cost for the world and who seem pretty straightforward in how they are operating is not a good look. They’d be better to apologise for delaying their procurement and focus on getting more vaccine from other sources like the Russians.

[not_english]

So today we have an example of the avoidance of Parliament by the government , lock down was announced (post the closure of parliament) till the 15th Feb. A vote would be required on the 15th for any extension , today Boris bold as brass that they’ll be no softening until the 8th March (three more weeks), they’ll spell out the “roadmap” in the next few weeks about the 8th of March onwards dangling this as the carrot to ensure fewer Tory rebels on the 15th Feb.



So think on this, UK school will be closed for 9 weeks on the say so of 1/2 dozen people and no , none, zip democratic representation.

I totally agree with this. If they have some criteria for when the schools should be closed and opened - publish them.

[DAC_]

So if the EU fall on their sword, who's getting forced to resign in EU government? Does the Parliament have a vote of confidence measure available to them?

That's not how the EU works. They never admit to any wrong doing. There is never any acknowledgement of culpability because they can say they were acting on behalf of the 27 members. You cannot hit a moving target.

They do appear to be panicking. Blaming AZ who have performed miracles to develop the vaccine, are producing at cost for the world and who seem pretty straightforward in how they are operating is not a good look. They’d be better to apologise for delaying their procurement and focus on getting more vaccine from other sources like the Russians.

The EU recently signed a massive deal with the Chinese, you'd think they'd be looking into getting the Sinovac asap.

[ChipSpike]

So if the EU fall on their sword, who's getting forced to resign in EU government? Does the Parliament have a vote of confidence measure available to them?

That's not how the EU works. They never admit to any wrong doing. There is never any acknowledgement of culpability because they can say they were acting on behalf of the 27 members. You cannot hit a moving target.

They do appear to be panicking. Blaming AZ who have performed miracles to develop the vaccine, are producing at cost for the world and who seem pretty straightforward in how they are operating is not a good look. They’d be better to apologise for delaying their procurement and focus on getting more vaccine from other sources like the Russians.

If you were AZ mgt you'd be fuming. The next round of contract negotiations with the EU will be interesting no doubt.

[DragsterDriver]

Have the EU lost their minds?

Seems like the spirit of Trump lives on, even if the giant satsuma isn't in office

They haven’t lost their minds, they need a Scapegoat because they’ve dropped a bollock.