6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

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P in VG
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6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by P in VG »

Who?

Wales
Image
Team: Leigh Halfpenny; George North, Nick Tompkins, Hadleigh Parkes, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Wyn Jones, Ken Owens, Dillon Lewis; Jake Ball, Alun Wyn Jones (C); Ross Moriarty, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.

Reps: Ryan Elias, Rob Evans, Leon Brown, Will Rowlands, Aaron Wainwright, Tomos Williams, Jarrod Evans, Johnny McNicholl.

Vs.

France
Image
Team: 15. Bouthier, 14. Thomas; 13. Vakatawa, 12. Vincent; 11. Fickou; 10. Ntamack, 9. Dupont; 7. Ollivon (cap), 8. Alldritt, 6. Cros; 5. Willemse, 4. Le Roux; 3. Haouas, 2. Marchand, 1. Baille

Les remplaçants : 16. Chat, 17. Gros, 18. Bamba, 19. Taofifenua, 20. Cretin, 21. Serin, 22. Jalibert, 23. Ramos


Where?
Image

When?
Saturday, February 22nd, 2020. Kick off at 16:45.

Ref?

Referee: Matthew Carley (England)
Image

Wales Rule 1: Lovely Welsh ladies
Spoiler: show
ImageImageImage
France Rule 1: Lovely French Ladies
Spoiler: show
ImageImageImage
Last edited by P in VG on Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by AND-y »

France are due a win here and are possibly playing better than us for the first time in years. Not optimistic for a win but hopefully we'll see continued improvement with structure etc.

Think we might just be beating the Italians and Scots this year.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Laurent »

food fight ?
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by P in VG »

AND-y wrote:France are due a win here and are possibly playing better than us for the first time in years. Not optimistic for a win but hopefully we'll see continued improvement with structure etc.

Think we might just be beating the Italians and Scots this year.

I agree - They should have beaten us twice last year & we were lucky in both games

They are due a win in Cardiff - but home advantage in the 6N is huge - so it's a 50/50 game in my opinion.

Hopefully the Welsh boys will be smarting from Dublin & will be out to prove a point
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by New guy »

Fitness is still an issue for this French team. Keep the ball in play as much as possible, worked well for Italy in the second half.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by The Sun God »

New guy wrote:Fitness is still an issue for this French team. Keep the ball in play as much as possible, worked well for Italy in the second half.
I don't think Wales will play as bad as they played in Dublin again, this championship. The margins were actually quite small at LR the other week.

I fancy Wales to beat France by 5
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Laurent »

Who will play 10 for Wales ?

Mushy brain Biggar or another?
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by P in VG »

Laurent wrote:Who will play 10 for Wales ?

Mushy brain Biggar or another?
Biggar will start if he passes all the HIA protocols

Otherwise it will be Jarrod Evans - he's a young 10 who plays for Cardiff Blues, very highly rated - good running half-back
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Laurent »

Taking return to play protocols lightly ;) (I hope not)...

Raka has been recalled to the french squad.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Miguel Indurain »

This fixture used be the game of the championship. Pintypool front row against cholley, paparemborde & co, Martin/wheel against imbernon and palmie, rives versus cobner, Davies against bastiat, Edwards versus Jacques.

The quality may be somewhat different these days but it's a fixture I never miss. Where Paris has been a tough venue for teams, Wales seem to do relish playing there.

France are playing well but something tells me that 2020 will see Wales win there
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by AND-y »

:lol:
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Laurent »

Miguel leaves under a rock.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by C69 »

When the seagulls follow the trawler....
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by The Sun God »

Miguel Indurain wrote:This fixture used be the game of the championship. Pintypool front row against cholley, paparemborde & co, Martin/wheel against imbernon and palmie, rives versus cobner, Davies against bastiat, Edwards versus Jacques.

The quality may be somewhat different these days but it's a fixture I never miss. Where Paris has been a tough venue for teams, Wales seem to do relish playing there.

France are playing well but something tells me that 2020 will see Wales win there
:roll: :roll:
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Laurent »

c69 wrote:When the seagulls follow the trawler....
I keep the sardines for Seneca
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Frodder »

Our luck has been well and truly ridden the French.

France by 9
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Da iawn diolch »

AND-y wrote:France are due a win here and are possibly playing better than us for the first time in years. Not optimistic for a win but hopefully we'll see continued improvement with structure etc.

Think we might just be beating the Italians and Scots this year.
I'm not into appeasing the mocker gods. But this is a fairly accurate summary of where my head is at right now.

If France play with the intensity they did for the first 60min against England, we're toast.

If France play with the intensity they did for the last 40min against Italy, we're in with a decent shout.

If France follow their recent trend of 'a game of two halves', it could be a really interesting and tight match.

What I'm getting at is that the result is going to be down to whichever French team turns up on the day.

Am I doing this right?
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by AND-y »

Da iawn diolch wrote:
AND-y wrote:France are due a win here and are possibly playing better than us for the first time in years. Not optimistic for a win but hopefully we'll see continued improvement with structure etc.

Think we might just be beating the Italians and Scots this year.
I'm not into appeasing the mocker gods. But this is a fairly accurate summary of where my head is at right now.

If France play with the intensity they did for the first 60min against England, we're toast.

If France play with the intensity they did for the last 40min against Italy, we're in with a decent shout.

If France follow their recent trend of 'a game of two halves', it could be a really interesting and tight match.

What I'm getting at is that the result is going to be down to whichever French team turns up on the day.

Am I doing this right?
/end thread until kick off
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by iarmhiman »

Would worry about Welsh defense if the French get that ball wide early. They have a much more dangerous backline than Ireland.

If this was a Gatland Welsh team I'd say Welsh win, no argument.

but I saw a softness in Wales last day out that I hadn't seen since the Gypocaust.

I'm tentatively going for France by 3 points.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by AND-y »

iarmhiman wrote:Would worry about Welsh defense if the French get that ball wide early. They have a much more dangerous backline than Ireland.

If this was a Gatland Welsh team I'd say Welsh win, no argument.

but I saw a softness in Wales last day out that I hadn't seen since the Gypocaust.

I'm tentatively going for France by 3 points.
Good point. hopefully that wide defense has noticeably improved even if Wales lose.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by New guy »

iarmhiman wrote:Would worry about Welsh defense if the French get that ball wide early. They have a much more dangerous backline than Ireland.

If this was a Gatland Welsh team I'd say Welsh win, no argument.

but I saw a softness in Wales last day out that I hadn't seen since the Gypocaust.

I'm tentatively going for France by 3 points.
To be fair to Pivac, we got stuffed in Dublin on numerous occasions under Gatland. 2014 was much worse.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Da iawn diolch »

AND-y wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Would worry about Welsh defense if the French get that ball wide early. They have a much more dangerous backline than Ireland.

If this was a Gatland Welsh team I'd say Welsh win, no argument.

but I saw a softness in Wales last day out that I hadn't seen since the Gypocaust.

I'm tentatively going for France by 3 points.
Good point. hopefully that wide defense has noticeably improved even if Wales lose.
France would be stupid not to exploit that, based on the Ireland game. But they haven't been throwing it wide with careless abandon off first phase as much from what I've seen.

Would be a big shift in attacking tactics for them.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by P in VG »

Most of the gains were made when Tomkins & North were the last two defenders
Will depend who lines up on Saturday - Tomkins could do with a stint on the bench if you ask me. Watkin looked alright against Ulster & his defence will be needed against the likes of Vakatawa I reckon

I'd start with Watkin (even if he only plays for 50-60 mins)
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Da iawn diolch »

P in VG wrote:Most of the gains were made when Tomkins & North were the last two defenders
Will depend who lines up on Saturday - Tomkins could do with a stint on the bench if you ask me. Watkin looked alright against Ulster & his defence will be needed against the likes of Vakatawa I reckon

I'd start with Watkin (even if he only plays for 50-60 mins)
Tomkins' defence is generally fine in the Prem and Champ Cup. A standard of game immeasurably superior to that which Watkin has played in his entire club career to date.

Tomkins was poor last week, in a generally poor team, against an opposition with a superior gameplan, on his first international start.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. He's much better than that.

Casting aside players after their first start, when the rest of the team also took a shit with their trousers on, isn't how you build confidence.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Da iawn diolch »

New guy wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Would worry about Welsh defense if the French get that ball wide early. They have a much more dangerous backline than Ireland.

If this was a Gatland Welsh team I'd say Welsh win, no argument.

but I saw a softness in Wales last day out that I hadn't seen since the Gypocaust.

I'm tentatively going for France by 3 points.
To be fair to Pivac, we got stuffed in Dublin on numerous occasions under Gatland. 2014 was much worse.
Agreed. We were utter toss that day, with a pretty much first-choice team.

We missed 16/117 tackles with an Edwards defence, conceded 4 tries, and only scored a single penalty.

People have short memories.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Toulon's Not Toulouse »

Look, no offense, but while a Welsh win would probably propel the average regions Pro14 attendance from 5 to 8, us French have a Grand Slam showdown against Ireland organised on the final week which has already sent Diageo and Pernod Ricard shares through the roof. So just do the decent thing for both the game and the stock market and lose. :thumbup:
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Da iawn diolch »

Toulon's Not Toulouse wrote:Look, no offense, but while a Welsh win would probably propel the average regions Pro14 attendance from 5 to 8, us French have a Grand Slam showdown against Ireland organised on the final week which has already sent Diageo and Pernod Ricard shares through the roof. So just do the decent thing for both the game and the stock market and lose. :thumbup:
Nobody is offended in the slightest. In fact, I'd wager that most of us were cheering you garlic-munching funsters on against England.

Equally, that doesn't mean that we're not looking forward to the inevitable moment when you trip over your own laces.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by P in VG »

Da iawn diolch wrote:
P in VG wrote:Most of the gains were made when Tomkins & North were the last two defenders
Will depend who lines up on Saturday - Tomkins could do with a stint on the bench if you ask me. Watkin looked alright against Ulster & his defence will be needed against the likes of Vakatawa I reckon

I'd start with Watkin (even if he only plays for 50-60 mins)
Tomkins' defence is generally fine in the Prem and Champ Cup. A standard of game immeasurably superior to that which Watkin has played in his entire club career to date.

Tomkins was poor last week, in a generally poor team, against an opposition with a superior gameplan, on his first international start.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. He's much better than that.

Casting aside players after their first start, when the rest of the team also took a shit with their trousers on, isn't how you build confidence.
I'm not saying cast Tomkins aside - just move him to the bench for now and ease him in from there. We can equally damage his confidence by throwing him into the deep end & asking too much, too early.

Like him or not - Watkin has 20+ caps to his name, and is used to the pace of International rugby - he's a safe pair of hands & has good defence.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by New guy »

Da iawn diolch wrote:
P in VG wrote:Most of the gains were made when Tomkins & North were the last two defenders
Will depend who lines up on Saturday - Tomkins could do with a stint on the bench if you ask me. Watkin looked alright against Ulster & his defence will be needed against the likes of Vakatawa I reckon

I'd start with Watkin (even if he only plays for 50-60 mins)
Tomkins' defence is generally fine in the Prem and Champ Cup. A standard of game immeasurably superior to that which Watkin has played in his entire club career to date.

Tomkins was poor last week, in a generally poor team, against an opposition with a superior gameplan, on his first international start.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. He's much better than that.

Casting aside players after their first start, when the rest of the team also took a shit with their trousers on, isn't how you build confidence.
I'd be happy enough to go with the same backs to be honest.

They didn't play well but let's be honest, the forwards really let them down. Lets try to get something resembling parity up front and see how they do.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by C69 »

Is Sanjay fit?
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by New guy »

c69 wrote:Is Sanjay fit?
Nah. Wouldn't pick him anyway.

Give him the tournament off, no point in carting him back out after 4 months injured. It's not like we're going for a grand slam or anything.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Crash_12 »

When was the last time France actually challenged for the 6N?

When they went into the final game 3 and 1 but then got humped by 50 points by the Saes?
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Finally, a decent French team have rocked up and stubbed out their Gauloises outside the various changing rooms of the 6N. After - what? - 10 years of regularly having them on toast, and ESPECIALLY after the RWC match, this equipe Francais must be grimly intent on laying the smacketh down this weekend.

I take the various points about French fitness, home advantage, etc. all playing a role but not only do I foresee a good French win, I also welcome it because this new Welsh set-up will benefit more in the long-term from some harsh home truths. Wales haven't been playing well enough recently to luck and fluke a win against this French side.

That said: if Wales play really well, then great!

Les Bleus par 10+
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Crash_12 »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:Finally, a decent French team have rocked up and stubbed out their Gauloises outside the various changing rooms of the 6N. After - what? - 10 years of regularly having them on toast, and ESPECIALLY after the RWC match, this equipe Francais must be grimly intent on laying the smacketh down this weekend.

I take the various points about French fitness, home advantage, etc. all playing a role but not only do I foresee a good French win, I also welcome it because this new Welsh set-up will benefit more in the long-term from some harsh home truths. Wales haven't been playing well enough recently to luck and fluke a win against this French side.

That said: if Wales play really well, then great!

Les Bleus par 10+
It’s in Cardiff.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Crash_12 wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:Finally, a decent French team have rocked up and stubbed out their Gauloises outside the various changing rooms of the 6N. After - what? - 10 years of regularly having them on toast, and ESPECIALLY after the RWC match, this equipe Francais must be grimly intent on laying the smacketh down this weekend.

I take the various points about French fitness, home advantage, etc. all playing a role but not only do I foresee a good French win, I also welcome it because this new Welsh set-up will benefit more in the long-term from some harsh home truths. Wales haven't been playing well enough recently to luck and fluke a win against this French side.

That said: if Wales play really well, then great!

Les Bleus par 10+
It’s in Cardiff.
Yes, I was referencing the point someone made about how home advantage was important and it was in Cardiff so Wales would win. You see how that fits my general point?

Or did I just imagine I read that....? bugger *checks*

No, I was right - PinVG mentioned it.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Crash_12 »

I’ve been in the pub for an hour and now I’m driving a tractor across a flooded field ergo I too may not be reading things properly.

Edit I read ‘French fitness and home advantage.’
Last edited by Crash_12 on Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by iarmhiman »

Da iawn diolch wrote:
New guy wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Would worry about Welsh defense if the French get that ball wide early. They have a much more dangerous backline than Ireland.

If this was a Gatland Welsh team I'd say Welsh win, no argument.

but I saw a softness in Wales last day out that I hadn't seen since the Gypocaust.

I'm tentatively going for France by 3 points.
To be fair to Pivac, we got stuffed in Dublin on numerous occasions under Gatland. 2014 was much worse.
Agreed. We were utter toss that day, with a pretty much first-choice team.

We missed 16/117 tackles with an Edwards defence, conceded 4 tries, and only scored a single penalty.

People have short memories.
Ireland scored 2 tries that day
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Crash_12 wrote:I’ve been in the pub for an hour and now I’m driving a tractor across a flooded field ergo I too may not be reading things properly.
Ah, the old "My powers of perception are hampered by my drink-driving a tractor across flooded fields" tactic.

Classic.
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by New guy »

Crash_12 wrote:When was the last time France actually challenged for the 6N?

When they went into the final game 3 and 1 but then got humped by 50 points by the Saes?
Well, we derailed their grand slam on week 3 in Cardiff 4 years ago.

If we cant win a Grand Slam I thoroughly enjoy it when we screw up somebody else's :thumbup:
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Re: 6N Rd. 3 - Cymru vs. Ffrainc - Sat, Feb 22nd. KO @ 16:45

Post by Da iawn diolch »

P in VG wrote:
Da iawn diolch wrote:
P in VG wrote:Most of the gains were made when Tomkins & North were the last two defenders
Will depend who lines up on Saturday - Tomkins could do with a stint on the bench if you ask me. Watkin looked alright against Ulster & his defence will be needed against the likes of Vakatawa I reckon

I'd start with Watkin (even if he only plays for 50-60 mins)
Tomkins' defence is generally fine in the Prem and Champ Cup. A standard of game immeasurably superior to that which Watkin has played in his entire club career to date.

Tomkins was poor last week, in a generally poor team, against an opposition with a superior gameplan, on his first international start.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. He's much better than that.

Casting aside players after their first start, when the rest of the team also took a shit with their trousers on, isn't how you build confidence.
I'm not saying cast Tomkins aside - just move him to the bench for now and ease him in from there. We can equally damage his confidence by throwing him into the deep end & asking too much, too early.

Like him or not - Watkin has 20+ caps to his name, and is used to the pace of International rugby - he's a safe pair of hands & has good defence.
I don't mind Watkin at all. I just don't actually think he's been all that good at international rugby.

If he were picked this weekend, it would only be his third Six Nations start (out of 10 total starts to date). Hardly a load more "used to the pace" at this level.

His previous two starts were the loss to Ireland in Cardiff pre-RWC (where he carried for 9m and missed 2/7 tackles) and a win against Italy in Rome.

Watkin is a tidy enough player. But I haven't seen anything from him in either a Wales or O's jersey to suggest that he's significantly better than a guy who's been playing at the absolute pinnacle of club rugby for the past 2-3 seasons.

I think Tompkins will come good if Wales invest the time in him.

Watkin has had the time invested in him (they are a similar age), and has yet to produce anything bordering on remarkable.
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